My new home defense tool

I echo Stik, #4 buck is the bomb!  When my Uncle got his first shotty I let him try both some 00 Buck and #4 buck loads to try.  Let's just say the #4 made his jaw drop.  Lots and lots of holes.  The Federal loads pack something like 32 pellets!  I got an awesome deal on them years ago when the local gun shop had a sale for $2 a box.  I picked up 20 boxes then and there!

Brian

I have the M3 Super 90. It can be switched and fired pump or semi-auto. I do believe that it has a buffer assembly, it is also a straight line fixed stock design with pistol grip. I cant say that I have felt any difference in the recoil of a 2-3/4" and 3" 00 Buck loads. It's not like when you're comparing 00 Buck to #8 load, where there is a noticable difference. At work we now carry a Remington 870 with a Sure Fire light forestock and M-4 type adjustable rear stock with recoil buffer. That is also a very nice shotgun but due to the construction very nose heavy in balance. Before that we had good old Ithaca 37s that looked straight out of "The Untouchables".

Thanks Carlos. I have been watching a lot of videos on YouTube on tactics, etc and would love to take a course. There is a guy on YouTube that teaches a class on home defense with a shotgun in my area.

His name is Mike Lamb and his company is called, "Stoic Ventures." He's a former recon Marine and really knows his stuff. He teaches tactics to police departments and military all over the country. He recommends #4 buck for home defense and that's what I was going to use but seeing that 95% of police departments use 00 buck and some use #1 Buck I thought I would just use 00. It has a proven track record and the 3" version with 15 pellets instead of 9 in the 2-3/4" is just devastating I am sure. Just think, with four shots you have put 60 .33 cal pellets down range. Wow!

This is the book I mentioned earlier. It's good.

Well, no matter how many shots one fires,they have to be placed accurately. Distance disperses your shot pattern, and the shorter the barrel of the shotgun, the more that becomes a factor. 60 .33 cal. pellets that hit nothing but air and drywall, or nothing vital dont do the shooter any good. Learning how to shooot accurately under varying conditions (indoors/outdoors, daylight/low light, moving and stationary, near and far) with their primary weapon are the most critical factor.

We have the option of using #4 or 00 Buck shot and I personally have chosen to use 3" 00 Buck round, just because I want to put bigger holes in a bad guy if need be. One can argue the virtues of more smaller holes vs fewer bigger holes (.25 cal. IIRC for #4 Buckshot) for putting down a bad guy. But the chief factor is being able to HIT the bad guy.

Skeet and trap shooting are a great way to hone your skills.

Chokes can play a big factor.  Most guys using their gun for defense just use a built in cylinder choke, but I am of the firm belief interchangeable choke barrels are much more flexible.  Granted big pellets like 00 probably won't see much patterning difference was you go tighter than modified (and indeed may worsen if you go tighter) with smaller pellets you can fiddle.  My 870 with modified choke and the #4 buck puts nice tight clusters out to the ranges you would see inside a home.  The full choke didn't do very much, and I never bothered trying with my extra full turkey choke because of that reason.  But an extra full turkey choke and plated turkey loads can be devastating for self defense too.  I virtually decapitated a big tom at a little over 15 yards using Federal plated #7 birdshot and an extra full choke.  At the shorter distance the string stays together to the point it is almost a slug.  Is it the most optimal for defense?  Probably not.  But it does show what interchangeable chokes and testing different loads of different size can get you, and what you can do and use in a pinch when you have nothing else.

Having said all that, you are absolutely correct that you still need to learn how to hit what you are aiming at.  A 12 gauge can kick like a mule with slug loads or purr like a cat with light upland loads.  If you don't know what to expect from the recoil you may wind up peppering your ceiling and nothing more.

Brian

Thanks guys. Yes practicing on moving targets is always best but when it comes down to the heat of the moment I don't think that really matters. I read in this book I mentioned how a police officer and a felon not 15 feet from each other emptied their guns firing at each other and neither one hit anything! The police officer tackled the bad guy and cuffed him but received a lot of ribbing from his fellow police officers. He was a good shot in qualifying and all as well but in the heat of the moment when adrenaline kicks in and fight or flight takes over things change completely. I can understand that although I have not experienced it.

Brian, I don't think chokes even are a factor as the majority of home defense situations are less than 10 yards and more like 7 or 8. At that distance even the cylinder bore of my Mossberg produces a pattern about the size of your fist or smaller. I think any other choke is a hindrance unless you are shooting at longer ranges.

I have been around weapons most of my life but a home defense scenario is not something I have experienced. I have shot trap years ago with my S&W model 1000 semi-auto shotgun as well as benchrest shooting with my Ruger M-77V in .22-250 and my Thompson Super 14 Contender that I shot in .223 Rem and .35 Rem. This is a whole different scenario now and I hope to be skilled enough to protect my wife and I against an attacker but some kind of training is always a good idea I think.

I forgot to mention my home defense tool. A Camden Yards Cooperstown Edition bat #991. One strike, two balls anyone? LOL!

Batter up! LOL! Mike, qualifying and training are two different animals. Learning to combat shoot effectively consistently reduces the likelihood of the empty gun in a gunfight with no hits. Home defense scenarios can vary greatly depending upon the home. Tailor your training to best suit your home.

I'd echo what Carlos says...every home is different as well as every situation. As to the racking the slide being ineffective...agree to disagree.

I'm just glad none of y'all think a .22 LR is an adequate home or self defense weapon. Seems like every time I work I get a person wanting me to show them a good 22 for that purpose....

.22 LRs will kill, but you have to be really up close and personal, or a really expert shot.

stikpusher

.22 LRs will kill, but you have to be really up close and personal, or a really expert shot.

I once shot a ground hog center mass with a CCI segmenting HP with an advertised muzzle velocity of 1640 FPS at 15 yards, he ran back in to his hole. Now I fully realize that a 22 LR can kill...but with the plethora of far greater options accommodating virtually all kinds of people, my conscience won't let me recommend any 22 LR for a defensive weapon. My  though...

Someday I'll be able to afford my dream carry gun... When you run out of ammo you can use it as one of those bats y'all have been mentioning..

GreenThumb 

Thanks for starting an interesting thread 

I don't recall seeing this topic posted here since I joined the FSM foums. 

.

mrmike

Hope you feel more secure, but what in the world does this have to do with scale modeling?

http://www.ecardmodels.com/index.php/1-1-pancor-jackhammer-paper-model.html  

Spruce, I beleive that my M3 has the buffer in the bolt assembly. I have not torn it down for awhile now as I have not had much time for any shooting trips over the past few years. Not mention the scarcity of ammo in all calibers here still. The stock is just a nice solid piece of resin/plastic with a rubber butt recoil pad. I have a nylon/velcro shell carrier on the stock that I had been using at work until it was no longer needed.

This is my "home security" that I had for my back yard camping while my house was being fumigated this past spring. Benelli & Walther

with dogs and cats for my alarms (hey, their senses of smell, hearing, and night vision is better than mine)

STIKPUSHER 

Thanks, I was curious if anyone did have the buttstock buffer.

I agree about the pets;  lots better hearing, night vision and smell than a human will ever possess. 

The Remington  870s that we have at work have a buffer in the adjustable M4 type buttstock.

I think it's worth pointing out to you fine gentleman a point.

A friend of mine learned this the hard way.

When you post a thread and show a weapon or two or three, the whole world knows, right?

If your wife files for divorce ( case of my friend),

your neighbor claims you threatened him, etc., their lawyer can and will put together a presentation about your dangerous tendencies.

And unfortunately we are no longer judged by our peers.

No the whole world does not know, only those who know you by your screen name.

Very true there GM. A simple bit of web searching will put these things together. But I am not one to make threats.

No concerns here either. I get along great with the neighbors and my wife and I have been married 30 years and also get along great. I can definitely see your point though GM.

Considering the things folks do on other social media, somebody is gonna be rich !

I never realized what a gold mine social media could be.

Thanks for the info. !

Our range range staff has nice quote up at our main training range. "Speed is fine. Accuracy is final".

Have fun with your new toy Mike.

Where'd the other 10 go?

My civilian range is outdoors and they don't allow shotguns or rifles with less than a certain length barrel. Plenty of traps to shoot at though.

stikpusher

Our range range staff has nice quote up at our main training range. "Speed is fine. Accuracy is final".

Have fun with your new toy Mike.

sweet shotgun m ike. i have a MOSSBURG wannabe which is a good gun if you don't have a lot of money and don't care about impressing others at the range. no offense. my indoor range allows shotguns and has a defensive shotgun class.i just carry a GLOCK 26 or 19 on my hip when home with HORNADY critical defense loads.

that quote is also attributed to wyatt earp.

Yes, there is another Wyatt Earp quote up at the range in the same room as well. I do not know it verbatim, but it is something along the the line of "you must learn to be slow in a hurry". IIRC, Wyatt Earp had some sort of association with our department in the early 20th Century after he came to California.

Aw !

   C'mon Mike . You aren't old  ,after all, my friends say I was an engineer on the ARK or

" Older than Dirt " with   9 Grand - Children and five Great- grands . Shoot , I am only 71 years and  five months old ! You are only as young as you think , until your body argues the point with you !

Ooooh ! Looks just like mine too .    T.B.