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B-17 crashes at Hartford

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  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Friday, October 4, 2019 11:16 AM

Tanker - Builder

Oh My !

    I flew on her when she was here. You sign a release before the flight. There is no way of knowing what an old War bird will do. No matter how well maintained. My old warbird was restored and maintained by a proffessional Aircrew with experience on the Bird. I enjoyed my flight and I am sure they did everything possible to keep her in the air.

     Now that said, My heart goes out to the Passenger and Crew families for their losses. Visionaries will always be remembered. To live momentarily, in the lives and minds of the original aircrew takes vision and courage . May they always soar above everyone else! I have this to remind us about flight.

    To Quote, John Gillespie Magee Jr. RCAF . Deceased. KIA -- 12-11-1941

    Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, and danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings. Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth of sun-split clouds--and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of--wheeled and soared and swung, High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there, I've chased the shouting wind along and flung My eager craft through footless halls of air. Up.up the long delirious, burning blue

   I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace Where never lark or eagle flew: and while with silent lifting mind I've trod the high untrespassed sanctity of space, put out my hand,and touched the face of God.

   May those who did not return Rest in peace, With love, a former flyer.

   

 

TB - Very, very fitting.  Thanks for digging that gem out.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Colorado Springs
Posted by mawright20 on Friday, October 4, 2019 10:46 AM
I was informed yesterday morning through another buddy that a former squadron mate was on board and despite multiple injuries was able to open the rear door and aid others in escaping the aircraft. I'm glad to hear he survived and is recovering. Prayers go out to all involved.
  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Friday, October 4, 2019 7:59 AM

Oh My !

    I flew on her when she was here. You sign a release before the flight. There is no way of knowing what an old War bird will do. No matter how well maintained. My old warbird was restored and maintained by a proffessional Aircrew with experience on the Bird. I enjoyed my flight and I am sure they did everything possible to keep her in the air.

     Now that said, My heart goes out to the Passenger and Crew families for their losses. Visionaries will always be remembered. To live momentarily, in the lives and minds of the original aircrew takes vision and courage . May they always soar above everyone else! I have this to remind us about flight.

    To Quote, John Gillespie Magee Jr. RCAF . Deceased. KIA -- 12-11-1941

    Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, and danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings. Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth of sun-split clouds--and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of--wheeled and soared and swung, High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there, I've chased the shouting wind along and flung My eager craft through footless halls of air. Up.up the long delirious, burning blue

   I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace Where never lark or eagle flew: and while with silent lifting mind I've trod the high untrespassed sanctity of space, put out my hand,and touched the face of God.

   May those who did not return Rest in peace, With love, a former flyer.

   

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by seastallion53 on Thursday, October 3, 2019 4:51 AM

I took a ride on that bird a few years ago,scary to think about.my prayers go out to the families.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 11:12 PM

The pilot reported trouble with number four engine shortly after take off and was returning to the airport, according to an Air Force Times article. 

 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/10/02/world-war-ii-era-b-17-bomber-crashes-in-fireball/

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 10:26 PM

But in a way they aren't. Either way, it's really on the operators to make the fights safe. I have to say that all of the rides I've paid for were kind of more adrenaline than sanity.

Our President grounded the Max 8, and it was the right thing to do. And that's an aircraft that has more brains in it's galley oven timer than a B-17 has in it's avionics bay.

A little more oversight couldn't hurt. 

I have no idea why this aircraft crashed- it could have been a bird strike as an example and that happens to any aircraft. But the NTSB is on it, let's see what they come up with.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 10:21 PM

These aircraft were designed for an aircrew of fit young men. They had to be able to pass a flight physical. Not to mention that there were crew drills for emergency egress procedures for in flight and on the ground emergencies. Most military aircraft have similar limitations. Even with trained aircrew, well versed in emergency procedures and familiar with the aircraft type, things can and will go wrong. 

Look at this bail out chart and there are four emergency exits: three hatches and the bomb bay. The odds were not good today.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 9:08 PM

Cadet Chuck

Here we go again.  I knew this was coming.  Some clueless politician is demanding that ALL vintage aircraft be grounded immediately.

Well, there goes our B-52 fleet...

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 8:53 PM

Cadet Chuck

Here we go again.  I knew this was coming.  Some clueless politician is demanding that ALL vintage aircraft be grounded immediately.

 

Really?!  Always sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong.  It's always a risk flying in an older aircraft, any aircraft for that matter.  I'm sure the passengers and crew were all aware of the risk. 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 7:52 PM

Here we go again.  I knew this was coming.  Some clueless politician is demanding that ALL vintage aircraft be grounded immediately.

Gimme a pigfoot, and a bottle of beer...

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • From: Northwest Indiana
Posted by ShellbackFC2 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 7:10 PM

I just saw this on news this afternoon. Heartbreaking. I went to see it this past August with my son; I have pictures of sitting in it. My thoughts are with the families.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 6:17 PM

I have been in that aircraft, but not in the air. I did go up in the B-24. My understanding was that you had to choose front or rear- there was no crossing the bomb bay. It was possible to cross in the Liberator. I was in the navigator position at take off and had the most fun crawing up to the nose turret and sitting in there.

I bring this up as we all can feel for the humans in the aircraft. They are very nice people.

Access to the B-17 interior was through the hatch under the tail, which was only a couple of feet above the ground. The radio operators overhead was open. I don't remember the waist windows, but they were on the B-24 and we could literally lean out.

I didn't really give it much thought as it was so exciting to do. But yeah, there wouldn't be much of a chance of survival in a crash.

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:58 PM

goldhammer

Amazing anyone survived after impacting that fuel tank farm.

 

That tanks are a de icing facility, according to one account. If those were fuel tanks, it likely would have been far worse.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:45 PM

You can replace the plane, at great cost, but you can't replace those people. Definately a very sad day for sure. 

BK

On the bench:

A lot !! And I mean A LOT!!

2024 Kits on deck / in process / completed   

                         14 / 5 / 2  

                              Tongue Tied

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 4:37 PM

Wow, looking at those pics I dont think doors mattered.  Very sad.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 4:16 PM

Amazing anyone survived after impacting that fuel tank farm.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 3:53 PM

goldhammer

...Way too early to speculate unless someone who has actually flown on the 909 can verify either way...

 
Exactly.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 3:51 PM

Nine oh Nine looks to be a total loss. So far the casualties are five dead, and nine injured, 13 on the aircraft and 1 on the ground. Just a guess, but looking at the damage I imagine that fatalities were up front, and any survivors were in the mid and tail areas.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 3:46 PM

Remains to be seen if the waist windows or the radio compartment hatch plexi were rivited in making them more or less permanent installations.  Way too early to speculate unless someone who has actually flown on the 909 can verify either way.

NTSB findings will be released eventually after they finish their investigation.  Might take up to a year though.

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 2:46 PM

A tragic loss for all involved, and for the aviation community.  It saddens me to see a fellow B-17 be lost to a crash.  I know what it takes to keep these old gals flying and airworthy. 

There are several places to exit the Movie Memphis Belle in the event of an emergency, not just the crew doors in the front and rear of the plane.  The waist gunner area has two "windows" that can be opened.  There is also a window that can be removed in the top of the fuselage. 

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 2:26 PM

The B-17 was not the easiest aircraft to get in and out of, but the passengers were seated to the rear of the aircraft near the waist exit.  I don't think exiting the aircraft was the problem in this case.

A sad day.

Gary

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 2:00 PM

GMorrison

In the background there. I'm the fat guy up front.

42-31909

 

Wait, I thought you were the guy on your avitar.

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 1:04 PM

Thiese are pictures of the Nine o Nine. It is a beautiful plane. It is truly unfortunate for the loss of life today.  There are only two main ways to exit a B-17. There is a small door at the rear of the plane and a really small crew hatch under the cockpit. When I toured the inside of the plane I  entered  through the crew hatch. I went up a ladder and then had to get on my hands and knees and crawl. If the plane had an emergency landing the crew hatch would be useless as a means of exit. Trying to get the crew and the passangers all the way to the rear door would be difficult due to the catwalk in the bomb bay. My opinion is that if emergency doors were inserted into  the fuselage they would not affect the look of the plane.

Your comments and questions are always welcome.

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 12:41 PM

In one way I agree with Tojo, on the other hand I think that if they are going to allow the public to fly in them as a way to raise funds to keep them flying, they need to explore some safety methods.

I'm sure that they can build a couple of emergency exits without overly compromising the exterior look of the aircraft.

It's a heartbreak that it resulted in loss of life, and the loss of another piece of history.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 12:24 PM

No,I myself don't believe they should alter the original look of the plane.I mean you pay your fee,sign your release,and you go up.The ones who pay up to go up in these 70 yr old birds know the risk.If you don't like it,don't fly.

To me,it's different then these DUWK boats where much more of the general public may use them and not realize the risk  the altered craft pose,they need regulations.But these old warbirds are diffrent to me.

However in this over regulated,overly litigious,quick to assign blame and deny responsibility society,who knows where this will go.

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 12:10 PM

Okay, I don't want to start a ruckus here, but I have an opinion regarding allowing the public to fly in WWII airplanes. Do you think that the B-17 and B-24 should have emergency exit doors retrofitted to those planes? I know that those planes would no longer be "original" in appearance, but as it currently stands, there is no way out of those planes in the event of an emergency landing. I am in no way blaming anyone for what happeded today.

Your comments and questions are always welcome.

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • From: Malvern, PA
Posted by WillysMB on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 12:05 PM

That was Nine-O-Nine. Apparently crashed on approach around 10:30, two known dead, at least 3 injured. Eye witnesses indicated the plane was very low, may have had an engine out, and may have clipped a building.

Tragic situation.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Land of Lakes
Posted by cbaltrin on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 11:35 AM

Damn shame. Hopefully minimal loss of life.

On the Bench: Too Much

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 11:20 AM

The Wings of Freedom Tour was in the Chicago area past July. It was enjoyable looking at the WWII aircraft. I considered taking a ride in the B-17, but decided that the price of the ride  was too high.

Your comments and questions are always welcome.

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