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The General Lee

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  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Australia
Posted by OctaneOrange on Thursday, September 10, 2015 4:55 AM

Sprue-ce Goose

.....if anyone sees 1/16 General Lee kits on e-bay and the seller is in Northern Illinois......chances are it is that guy.

to be fair, that kit does look good ON THE BOX (the kit however is attrocious)

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:58 AM
Tags: General Lee
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, September 10, 2015 3:02 PM

Interesting article; thanks, Spru-ce, for posting it.

Personally, I don't disagree with the decision of the museum director. That a Confederate flag was used to decorate that car is indeed a part of history (though a pretty trivial one).

The article also clarifies why the kits with flags on them are no longer available. Don't blame Round 2, or MPC, or the government, or the protestors in South Carolina. Blame Warner Bros. - which, I think we may assume, made a corporate decision that it thought was in the best interest of the company.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, September 10, 2015 3:12 PM

I had nothing to do with it...

You mean Warner Bros. (?)

I was just thinking the other day, with all of this talk of preserving Southern Heritage...

William Faulkner, Lillian Hellman, Tennessee Williams, Louis Armstrong, Paul Prudhomme, Archie Manning. So much contribution to American History.

Shelby Foote, Lyndon Johnson, Douglas MacArthur.

Arguably our best music, our best literature, our best soldiers, our best food and our best sports teams.

Fun trivia question: Whats the one major sport based on committing a felony?

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Friday, September 11, 2015 7:20 PM

OctaneOrange

 

 
Sprue-ce Goose

.....if anyone sees 1/16 General Lee kits on e-bay and the seller is in Northern Illinois......chances are it is that guy.

 

 

to be fair, that kit does look good ON THE BOX (the kit however is attrocious)

 

Thanks for the forum hyperlink.

I noted that one builder had to re-engineer the chassis.

As the parts of the 1/25 scale kit are inaccurate and the Revell 1969 kit appears to be OOP, I am thinking that the Round Two kit would be better off built up as a Chip Foose style vehicle.Hmm

No Confederate flag decals, of course.

Tags: Chip Foose
  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: West Chester, PA
Posted by AstralJollyRoger on Monday, September 14, 2015 1:14 AM

I just picked up the Dukes of Hazzard General Lee, it's an MPC 1/25 kit. I was the only one they had, so I got it. The kit fas the flag decal inside however it's not pictered on the box.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Monday, October 5, 2015 9:21 PM

Local Hobby Town, Hobby Lobby and Michaels are once again fully stocked with the General Lee kits and some kits were for sale at a local toy and hobby show.

Seems the panic has run it's course as the kits are still in stock after about three weeks.

FWIW: I did see the Revell 1969 Charger ProModeler kit at the toy and hobby show last week for the asking price of $25.00- still there when I left.

I bought a 1/25 JoHan Chrysler Turbine car kit at the show.

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: the redlands Fl
Posted by crown r n7 on Monday, October 5, 2015 9:32 PM
Have you built the turbine car kit before?

 

 

 Nick.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Monday, October 5, 2015 10:27 PM

Nope.

This will be the first time.

I'm actually more interested in the engine than the actual car kit.

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 3:52 AM

GMorrison

 

 

Fun trivia question: Whats the one major sport based on committing a felony?

 

I didn't see an answer to this question. I dunno but I'm interested in hearing the answer. I'll take a guess and say hockey. lol

                   

 Forum | Modelers Social Club Forum (proboards.com) 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 10:13 AM

mustang1989

 

 
GMorrison

 

 

Fun trivia question: Whats the one major sport based on committing a felony?

 

 

 

I didn't see an answer to this question. I dunno but I'm interested in hearing the answer. I'll take a guess and say hockey. lol

 

This may depend upon the era and how that era classified a felony............but my guess would be boxing as the fists could be considered a deadly weapon.

Alas, Raymond Burr is now in that great pre-trial court in the sky and can no longer take the case...........Whistling

Tags: Perry Mason
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 10:14 AM

Sprue-ce Goose

Nope.

This will be the first time.

I'm actually more interested in the engine than the actual car kit.

I suppose I could add Confederate flag decals to the JoHan kit................HmmWink

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 10:45 AM

Sprue-ce Goose

 

 
mustang1989

 

 
GMorrison

 

 

Fun trivia question: Whats the one major sport based on committing a felony?

 

 

 

I didn't see an answer to this question. I dunno but I'm interested in hearing the answer. I'll take a guess and say hockey. lol

 

 

This may depend upon the era and how that era classified a felony............but my guess would be boxing as the fists could be considered a deadly weapon.

Alas, Raymond Burr is now in that great pre-trial court in the sky and can no longer take the case...........Whistling

 

No, not boxing and not hockey. Hint: it's very close to the original subject of this thread, which is why I posed it in the first place.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2014
Posted by rooster513 on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 11:15 AM

Stock car racing back with the old moonshiners?

-Andy

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 11:37 AM

Rooster gets his Good Ole Boy card stamped!

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: Northeast Florida
Posted by Arved on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 1:44 PM

plasticjunkie
I quite don't understand the reasoning of removing a flag from a freaking model! It's still the Genetal Lee.

Perhaps prototype accuracy?

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/13190780/bubba-watson-paint-confederate-flag-general-lee

So I bought the kit today from Amazon. It was an impulse buy inspired from this thread. Reviews and questions confirm that while the flag was removed from the box art, it's still included with the decal sheet.

Most "authorities" claim the General Lee was painted Chrysler Code EV2 "Hemi Orange." Google search of this forum didn't reveal any clues about appropriate model paints to match. I think this photo shows it's a moot point. Use whatever orange you want, and there's bound to be a General Lee that matched. LOL

General Lees

This whole thread reminds me that I have several 21st Century Toys WWII Luftwaffe models with missing swastikas. Easy enough to print them up with a laser printer and clear decal film.

- Arved

e-mail | Blog

"Simplicate and Add Lightness" — design philosophy of Ed Heinemann, Douglas Aircraft

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Cameron, Texas
Posted by Texgunner on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 1:55 PM

My son Carson, 32, is a major "gear-head hotrodder".  He says that among Dodge Charger fans, "The Dukes of Hazzard" show is widely reviled.  Why?  Well, everytime you see the General Lee take off and fly through the air, that's another car for the scrap pile.  Those four-point landings were hell on the frame.   Of course, the "jumping" Chargers were just cobbled together enough to drive for the scene.  But each Charger they trashed was one that would never be restored or "brought back".   I guess that did keep the values up for the ones that remained...Wink


"All you mugs need to get busy building, and post pics!"

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, October 6, 2015 3:01 PM

No problem finding a swastika decal.

http://www.megahobby.com/multi-scale172andswastikainsigniawarbirddecals.aspx

Thats funny, Arved, all those orange colors.

"Nash Bridges" used to be filmed in the neighborhood where I work. They had a bunch of yellow 1971 Barracuda convertibles.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: Northeast Florida
Posted by Arved on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 9:20 AM

Texgunner
But each Charger they trashed was one that would never be restored or "brought back". I guess that did keep the values up for the ones that remained

I remember reading somewhere, a long time ago, that the Charger was chosen because, at the time, they were cheap and plentiful. So, if anything, they helped increase the value by reducing the supply and increasing the demand! (GD&R)

"Through the history of the show, an estimated 309 Chargers were used; 17 are still known to exist in various states of repair... Schneider (Bo Duke) has also restored over 20 other General Lees to date." - Wikipedia

Would the car be as popular today without it's leading role on The Dukes of Hazard?

For most of the series, Daisy Duke drove a white CJ-7, but the first 5 episodes had her in a 1974 Plymouth Road Runner:

Daisy Duke Road Runner

Round 2 (MPC) did a model:

Round 2 kit

That might make a nice stablemate to the General Lee model. Has anyone here built it?

For the record, I'm not an auto modeler, nor am I a Dukes of Hazard fan. I just get real curious and start researching whenever a spark ignites my curiosity, and this thread has done so. And let's be honest, it's so much easier to research trivia like this today than it was even 10 years ago, it's almost sinful not to spend 10 minutes to satisfy an impulsive curiosity.

 

- Arved

e-mail | Blog

"Simplicate and Add Lightness" — design philosophy of Ed Heinemann, Douglas Aircraft

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: Northeast Florida
Posted by Arved on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 10:19 AM

Another Wikipedia page just about the car. Some notes:

"Although the estimated number of General Lees used varies from different sources, according to former cast member Ben Jones ("Cooter" in the show), as well as builders involved with the show, 320 General Lees were used to film the series. Others claim about 255 were used in the series. Approximately 17 still exist in various states of repair."

"The first three Georgia Lees had a set of crossed flags (a Confederate flag and checkered flag) on the panel between the rear window and trunk lid. Although four sets were created, only three were used. They were discontinued due to the continuity of the General Lee graphics, making it one less thing to be used. The three surviving cars went back to California and had the crossed flags removed upon reconditioning."

Crossed Flags

Anyone make this as a decal (for either the 1/16th or 1/25th scale models - I'd be interested in one for my 1/25th scale model)?

"The paint used on these cars was Chrysler code EV2 or 'Hemi Orange'. Interiors not originally tan were sprayed with SEM brand "Saddle tan" vinyl dye."

"(LEE 3) was painted 1975 Corvette Flame Red with a special base coat; the base coat was used after they found LEE 1's paint appeared to be blotchy due to the direct application over factory paint."

From the second through fourth season:

"The paint was GM code 70, Flame Red (still orange, just the name of the color), but there does appear to be some variance here: interiors were mostly dyed brown and occasionally SEM Saddle Tan."

I'm kind of confused about the GM code. In the mid to late 70s, when the series was produced, GM was buying paint from Dupont (before switching to PPG circa 1980). It's my belief GM would spec Dupont paint codes.

The flag's controversy has long been an issue, and was even used as a theme in The Dukes of Hazard feature film (2005): 

"Confederate flag on the roof is made an object of conflict on two occasions. In the first occasion, the Dukes are stuck in an Atlanta traffic jam. During this time passing drivers make remarks towards them that alternate between cheering the South and condemning them as practicing racism, leaving the Duke boys puzzled; the last to comment says, 'Nice roof, redneck! ... Join us in the 21st century?!' and displays obscene hand gestures. Mystified, Bo and Luke slide out of the windows so they could sit on the windowsill to look at the roof and discover the flag. In the second incident, the Dukes wind up with coal dust on their faces, giving them the appearance of driving around in blackface; they stop at a traffic light and some African American youths notice this and the Confederate flag on the General. The youths come to the conclusion that the Dukes are making a racist statement and are about to give them a physical opinion of their roof graphic and facial appearance. Just as the youths were about to assault Bo and Luke, two black police officers show up and throw the Dukes in jail."

 

And now you probably know more about the General Lee than you ever wanted to know. :-) But in my book, historical research is part and parcel of every model build.

- Arved

e-mail | Blog

"Simplicate and Add Lightness" — design philosophy of Ed Heinemann, Douglas Aircraft

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 11:33 AM

Those quotes are interesting for several reasons. I particularly like the one where the Duke boys are surprised that anybody would find the Confederate flag either laudable or offensive.

For better or worse, I'm afraid that's a common real-life phenomenon. A whole lot of young people today have no idea what the Civil War was about - if they've even heard about it. (At the beginning of each of my American military history courses, I hand out a little survey in which, among other things, I ask "In what year did the American Civil War end?" About 90% of the students don't know. These are college sophomores, juniors, and seniors.)

In the high school where my wife used to work, a white student tied a big Confederate flag to the roof of his car and drove it back and forth in front of the school building, with one purpose: to offend the assistant principal, who was black. I talked to the student; he had no idea what the flag was, or what it represented. He'd just heard that it made  black people mad.

"Those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - Santayana

"Those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it next semester." - Tilley

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: Northeast Florida
Posted by Arved on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 2:54 PM

At the risk of violating TOS and being reprimanded...

jtilley
"Those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it next semester." - Tilley

Been there, done that...

I'll admit, my public school history taught me the issue was slavery, and California being admitted as a free state was the last straw. Since I've moved to the south, I've been corrected and now know better. Oops

And "The War of Northern Agression" has other lessons to be learned, especially in the eventual Civil War to come. Oh, make no mistake about it. It's going to happen. Maybe not now. Maybe not in our lifetime, but even the mighty Roman Empire fell, and so will this one. And I believe that the political divisiveness that's so rampant in our government, our politics, our media, and even in our churches will have consequences and reprecussions.

"If Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin were alive today, they'd be leading the revolution." - Me :-)

Now to figure out what model paint comes closest to Hemi Orange. I definately want to do one of the first three Chargers with the crossed flags on the back. Testors has Hemi Orange in a rattle can, but I can't find it in a bottle. I hate decanting almost as much as I hage rattle cans. Suggestions?

- Arved

e-mail | Blog

"Simplicate and Add Lightness" — design philosophy of Ed Heinemann, Douglas Aircraft

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 3:30 PM

Arved

At the risk of violating TOS and being reprimanded...

 

 
jtilley
"Those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it next semester." - Tilley

 

Been there, done that...

................

"If Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin were alive today, they'd be leading the revolution." - Me :-)

..................... Suggestions?

Well, if yer gonna talk that way.............
There's always " The Dodge Rebellion".............
 
 
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 3:43 PM

The AMC Rebel and the Dodge Magnum. No end to how suckers get marketed.

With all due respect Arved, I sincerely disagree. I think we've learned that there are better ways to solve our societal differences. A sure sign of a good system is that no one is very happy about it.

I think that the CSA was frankly shocked when the Union militarily intervened to preserve itself. Just as the folks in 1775 were really shocked when the King attacked. As long as the Federal Government has Ohio class submarines and better command and control, not much chance of a successful seccession by the South again.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 10:28 PM

Actually, there's as much a case for the USA not surviving the next two generations as there is a case against the South rising again- due to similar reasons.

As for the American Revolution: I would kinda like to know what prompts the idea that Colonial revolutionary leaders thought the single, undisputed world military power ( since the French and Indian Wars, anyway) would not attack a divided population ( separate state governments) which had only weak militias. The Colonial state governments had no standing armies and certainly no navy. Aside from the local militias, the Colonial states depended almost entirely upon the British military for protection. Hmm 

Despite the current popular view that the the American Colonial leadership was a bunch of knuckle dragging, ignorant upstarts ( well, OK, the British Aristocracy thought that at the time as well Whistling ) the American revolutionary leadership was very well versed in British history as well as how the British government functioned. After all, they had been interacting with British leadership either through the Colonial Governors or directly with Parliament in London

( Benjamin Franklin). 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 10:47 PM

Arved

 

For most of the series, Daisy Duke drove a white CJ-7, but the first 5 episodes had her in a 1974 Plymouth Road Runner:

Daisy Duke Road Runner

Round 2 (MPC) did a model:

Round 2 kit

That might make a nice stablemate to the General Lee model. Has anyone here built it?

I must admit, I was unaware the Plymouth Road Runner car was used in the series. As I do not ever recall viewing the series, I hope my oversight would be forgiven.

I could be tempted to build the CJ-7 as I recently purchased the Revell Wrangler Rubicon as well as the re-release of the MPC WWII Jeep ( with civilian tires Bang Head- wish I'd read the reviews first) 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 11:05 PM

Sprue-ce Goose

Actually, there's as much a case for the USA not surviving the next two generations as there is a case against the South rising again- due to similar reasons.

As for the American Revolution: I would kinda like to know what prompts the idea that Colonial revolutionary leaders thought the single, undisputed world military power ( since the French and Indian Wars, anyway) would not attack a divided population ( separate state governments) which had only weak militias. The Colonial state governments had no standing armies and certainly no navy. Aside from the local militias, the Colonial states depended almost entirely upon the British military for protection. Hmm 

Despite the current popular view that the the American Colonial leadership was a bunch of knuckle dragging, ignorant upstarts ( well, OK, the British Aristocracy thought that at the time as well Whistling ) the American revolutionary leadership was very well versed in British history as well as how the British government functioned. After all, they had been interacting with British leadership either through the Colonial Governors or directly with Parliament in London

( Benjamin Franklin). 

 

You answer the argument. They were all citizens of the same country, they were not traitorous, they simply had definite goals of self determination through economic means, and they had been comrades in arms in a series of previous wars.

The big mistake was the Kingdom attacking it's own citizens without provocation. In a battle that had no overriding moral value, as opposed to the evil of slavery, which was the cause of the secession in 1861.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, October 8, 2015 1:19 AM

One aspect of the American Revolution that most people don't get is that, for at least the first year and a half of the fighting, the people who wanted to separate from Great Britain were a small minority. It's hard to estimate such things, but a common guesstimate among historians is that in late 1776, when the British were driving Washington's army from New York, about 10% of the population favored the Revolution, about 10% were loyalists who opposed it, and the other 80% didn't care. To them, ideas like the fundamental rights of man, no taxation without representation, the evils of monarchy, etc. were far less important than the big questions of life, such as, "will my wife live through her next pregnancy?" Or "will my crops come in well enough this year for me to keep my farm?" Or "will the smallpox epidemic wipe out my entire town?" (The Revolutionary War was fought during a smallpox epidemic.)

From the British perspective there was plenty of provocation for what they did. American colonists had attacked a force of His Majesty's soldiers and marines in the performance of their duty, had destroyed several tons of valuable property of the East India Company, had driven a royal governor out of Massachusetts by setting fire to his house and threatening his family, and placed a sizeable force of soldiers and loyal civilians under siege (in Boston).

When the Second Continental Congress met in May of 1775, just after the shooting started at Lexington and Concord, the first thing it did was to issue two documents, the Declaration of Causes of Taking Up Arms and the Olive Branch Petition, both of which said the same thing: the colonists were loyal subjects of King George, they were just trying to make the British recognize their rights as British subjects, the British Army was breaking the law, and they hoped the king would get rid of his treasonous ministers and other officials and stop the war. Of the 55 or so men in the Continental Congress, only about a dozen wanted to leave the British Empire.

During the next 14 months those dozen guys managed to draw enough of the other representatives into their camp to get the Declaration of Independence passed.

When Admiral Howe and General Howe arrived in North America, in the summer of 1776, they bore commissions not only as commanders-in-chief of the navy and army, but as commissioners of the peace. They were authorized to grant the Continenal Congress any terms it demanded, with one exception. The colonies were offered representation in Parliament, the repeal of the taxes they found so objectionable (which really didn't amount to much), and virtually everything else they wanted. The exception: independence. When the Howe brothers arrived, the Congress had just issued the Declaration of Independence, so they refused to negotiate. The rest is history.

Oh - and the colonial militias were not the only non-British military institutions in the colonies. Modern historians have recognized that the colonial military system had three layers: The British Army, the militia, and a group of "semi-pro" regiments raised by the individual states to function as trained, paid, professional fighting men. George Washington commanded such a unit, the First Virginia Regiment, in the French and Indian War. He claimed his troops were as well trained, equipped, and disciplined as most of the British units - and he was probably right. In any case, the story of the war being won by irregular militiamen firing rifles from behind trees at lines of idiots in red coats is about 90% myth.

End of lecture. Sorry; I've been teaching and writing about this stuff for about 40 years, and when the subject comes up I tend to run off at the mouth - or in this case keyboard.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: Northeast Florida
Posted by Arved on Thursday, October 8, 2015 8:00 AM

jtilley
End of lecture. Sorry; I've been teaching and writing about this stuff for about 40 years, and when the subject comes up I tend to run off at the mouth - or in this case keyboard.

A shame to end it here. It was a good discussion, and I thank all who participated.

A good friend and collegue had suggested, jokingly, that the US approach the British government: "You know, this little experiment we called democracy? Didn't quite go as planned. Too many unintended consequences. How about we just forget the whole thing and call it off."

When he does so, I remind him that he probably wouldn't appreciate the British tax code, and especially the VAT.

My kit arrived yesterday afternoon courtesy Amazon Prime. I got two packages in the mail, actually. The other was a hard drive. Guess which package had the best packaging? The hard drive was fine, but I was really surprised to find the retail box shipped loose in the shipping box.

The Confederate Flag decal is supplied. No doubt about it. I was surprised at how sturdy the box top was.

- Arved

e-mail | Blog

"Simplicate and Add Lightness" — design philosophy of Ed Heinemann, Douglas Aircraft

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Thursday, October 8, 2015 10:36 AM

Arved

................

The Confederate Flag decal is supplied. No doubt about it. I was surprised at how sturdy the box top was.

 

Yes, the MPC box is sturdy! 
Best of all, it was just what I needed for catching the metal bits that resulted from drilling and tapping new holes for a better ATX power supply filter holder on a Corsair 300R case.Big Smile
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