1/48 B-17 Group Build...ALL INVITED TO JOIN!

GOOD LORD!!!! With all this talk about B-17's this and B-17's that ....

... it's gonna make me pull mine out of storage and get back to work on it!!!! HAHAH!!!! I don't think that I've posted anything on it since like page 20!

... I got a B-17 itch .....

Hi gents, though I'm not a part of this particular group build, I've been following along. Really nice work here but B-17s are far to big for my tastes or the room I have to display them.

Your conversation about ball turrets has inspired me to do some research and chime in. Though it certainly isn't definitive, I read in this discussion that the YB-40 had a semi retractable turret to reduce drag from all the additional weight in armor and ammo.

Also, and most interestingly enough, the ball turret was statistically the safest position to be manned on the B-17. Though it was certainly exposed, the fact that it was extended beneath the length of the plane meant that it suffered less of the brunt of fighter attacks which tended to rake the fuselage and the men inside. This is just one source that states this though you can find plenty more. It also makes mention of the B-17's non retractable ball.

Sorry if I've interrupted! Carry on gentlemen.

It looked to me like they might have added structual supports for the radio turret which made the ball look like its retracted, course I could be wrong and it could actually  be retracted.  It is the first picture I've seen of what appears to be a retracted ball.  All the YB-40 pics I have show the ball in the normal position just like on a regular 17.

Did anyone look at the link I posted?! We all know the 17's ball was non retractable BUT if you look at the link I posted, it clearly shows a YB-40, which is still a B-17 with the ball partially retracted.

http://www.liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/05_ball.htm

http://tripatlas.com/Ball_Turret

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~josephkennedy/sperry_ball_turret.htm

Just a couple of the many that I found in a five minute search...

I do remember reading one time that the ball turret on the B-17 was slightly retractable (not like the full retraction on the B-24).  But, as far as I know this could have only been on a couple planes or the author had his facts mixed up , I dont know.  I'll try to find the article of I can

The distractions continue...this time its a '77 ford pickup But, until the parts for my airbrush arrive all I can do is paint figures

Pilot is correct.  Everything I have read and seen, including Yankee Lady, the Ball Turret did not retract on the B-17.  Only the B-24.  The ball is the same, but the structure that supports the ball is different. 

Cheers

I agree with pilot and guy. The ball on the 17 was not retracted. It was designed to be retractable on the 24 for clearance while the plane was on the ground but not on the 17. I know that this IS the fact. The thing that I can't say for sure is that  I don't even thing that it was experimented with on the 17.

Could be easy to make a mistake though. Both planes used the same ball, just one was retractable and the other was not.

See my ball turret model.I must have done it like that for a reason. I cant find the source of my reference.

I would have built that way from a picture ,  almost 2 years ago.

If I come across it I'll post it for sure.

Krow, I'd like to see something to prove this. My understanding of this has always been the ball on the liberator was raised and lowered, not at all on the B-17. The ball gunner entered the turret after it was rotated so the guns pointed straight down, same with exiting. Having said that, I have seen a pic of one the YB-40's where it does look like the turret was raised, but that's the only pic I've ever seen of that. Never seen another pic like that one.

http://www.327th.org/327th-org/Greg/yb-40(2).htm

Scroll down to the 5th and 6th pics, the ball turret, look's retracted to me, and these are the ONLY pics I've ever seen of a 17 with it's ball retracted.

I don't want to start an argument or upset anyone, but please re-check your source again (please cite your source as well (I don't mind being proven wrong)).

Now the B-17s that where equiped with the Mickey radar dome had the ability to retract the dome for take off and landing, but it still protruded from the fuselodge in the retracted position.

Check your facts , the turret was cranked up or down for access and take-offs and landings and was jettisonable for wheel -up landings ,so the backbone of the aircraft was not broken. There is no argument here these are the facts.

krow113

 the ball was cranked up and down for access and landing /take off , so there is a crank and pivot as well .

Only on B-24s.  On the 17 it was always exposed.  Once in the flight the ball was spun to get the gunner in, and in case of belly landings it was simply jettisoned.

This may help a little.I used kit and scratch toassemble these turrets, the ball was cranked up and down for access and landing /take off , so there is a crank and pivot as well . The hash marks on the top of the ring are for the sprocket teeth for rotating. Work in progress as well!

If you use the p/e ammo belts try a thin wire in each outside edge to alleviate the crinkled look these can get.

Your pilot seats are almost identical to mine , dont for get the dynamoters under the seats!

Watching your build with interest.

O2 bottle , wiring, ammo up next.

Thanks

Comin' along great ,oxegen bottle on the ball turret?

Little bit of weathering and wood work tonight.

Cheers

Excellent job Lancair!  I think I'm going to give you my visible 17 for you to do

Thanks guys.  Wiring, control cables, etc,  ore some of the last things I'm going to do before I close her up.

Cheers

Good looking werk , there should be wires to the side of the fuselage from the recievers on the top of the right wall of the rroom , you will see the nub molded on the inside of the right fuse half, this is where the antenna wire enters. This will be seen through the rroom gun station. The wires go on the large dials on the front of the reciever. Lots of other great  werk that wont be seen ,bummer!

Wow .... that interior is looking pretty nice, Rob! ... The only thing that I'd say is that the doors look just a little thick for the scale. However, this may negotiable when it's all closed up.....

Finally got my compressor working. It's not perfect, but it's working.  I painted a bunch of stuff today and added the radio room details.

Ball Turret ready for detailing

Nose section ready for wood treatment and detailing

Radio room almost complete

Cheers

The Ball Turret structure continues on my Fort.

Cheers

Well there was nice weather sunday and I didnt get around to painting since I was doing stuff outside. When I got back to the plane I still had a couple sanding imperfections and now shot some touch spots of the gray today...I might get the OD on tonight but I cant say for sure.

I also got distracted from the plane now that my Teknics crew came in the mail today and so I HAD to put some of the figures together.

Now I'm waiting for the gray to thoroughly cure and then I'll start masking for the OD

Quick update.  The pilot and co-pilot seats are started and I continue on the ball turret.

Cheers

check out the Fine Scale Modeler book " Classic Combat Aircraft vol II. There is a great article  by Louis Armour. He combined two kits the Revel "Belle" and the Revel/Monogram B 17 G to make what he calls a better Belle. Looks like the only way to go if you want a more detailed F model.

OD will go on tomorrow along with the red group markers

I'm happy to say my first ever airbrush session was a smashing success.  The psi and amount of thinner proved to be just perfect (i guessed for the most part).  I got a nice smooth finish, but  ALOT of sanding imperfections are showing on the underside.   I gotta do a little sanding and then make a run to the hobby shop for some more supplies and then get another coat of neutral gray on tonight, and then the first coat of OD tomorrow

I was suprised not more people were bidding on the bomber crew....I've been outbid on 3 others and now finally got one.  I was also suprised to not see it go over $100.  I guess everyone gets lucky once in awhile.  Now I might have too many figures.....with these 10, it brings my figure count to 24 or 25