F-4 Phantom: Arming and Underwing Stores Question

I always like looking at my collection.

^  Don't y'all just love looking at aircraft collection shots?

RobGroot4

Seasick, Not sure if you were serious or not, but a safe bet is 2 sidewinders, 1-3 drop tanks, and AIM-120's on the remaining stations.  That said, it's a rare loadout nowadays, they usually carry some form of GBU.

I'm building a small collection of modern fighters. I have a F/A-18E with Paveways, and a F with GBU-31.  I'm building another and I just want to put it in to an interception, combat air patrol, or fighter escort loadout.I have a EA-18G in my stash that is going to be in a SEAD loadout.

The F/A-18F in the picture has been rearmed with JDAMS. It was dropped once and I was never able to line up the drop tanks properly, I also have an aftermarket LAU-115 B/A and LAU-127 fro the AIM-120C. The AIM-120C has cropped tail fins so it can fit inside the F-22 and F-35.

Loved those J1's and J'4s....V4 Wisconsin air cooled with 3 speed manuals.  Blew the trans right out of the best one (J1) we had at Udorn on day when I was flying low and fast and an F4 can around the corner, and I downshifted it to try and get turned in to a revetment to get out of his way.......

Pod cradle broke on a J4 one day on the taxiway coming back from "fox" with a pod.........$over 200k damage to that 119, and we spent 2 hours with the FOD sweep down to get the taxi way reopened.....had to get them with a trailer after that.

I really wish that so many of these photos weren't copyrighted.

I would love to show you the difference between the Air Force and Navy MJ-1 weapons loaders and the SATS loader developed for the USMC's use on PSP "airfields".

Sorry, couldn't help myself when you left yourself wide open there my friend. ;)

Rich, thank you for the enlightenment on that piece of airfield equipment. That stuff is ALL Greek to me.

"I'm pretty impressed that you can communicate coherently in written sentences and paragraphs myself ;)"

Yuk, Yuk, Yuk.

So says the man that would have tried to enter a partially assembled Amtrack if his FSM buddies hadn't saved him.

But, yeah,,,,,,,one grunt for water, two grunts for food, three grunts for se,,,,,,,,,,,What Sarge?, yes, dear, I won't type that out, Aye, Aye, Honey. (geeesh, some women)

Rex

stikpusher

Rex, quick question- when you say that the MERs were tilted relative to the wing, I take it that you mean a fore/aft tilt, and not side to side?

MJ-1 is the powered loading cart? (okay two questions)

I'm pretty impressed that you can communicate coherently in written sentences and paragraphs myself ;)

I had a signed copy of it. I got Trotti to sign it in black magic marker.

Then when I bought another copy for my Uncle, I gave him the signed one and kept the new one for myself. I figured since he made two deployments with them and one was with Trotti, he should have the signed one.

I was in later, during the "post Vietnam force reduction" days,,,so, I didn't chew any of the same dirt like they had. (this Thanksgiving, my danged Uncle started calling my time in the Corps "Rex's black ops days", lol,,,,,because I was with the Black Sheep, the Black Knights and the Ace of Spades,,,,,no wonder people think Jarheads aren't housebroken,,,,,,,,,, why I oughta,,,,,,,,,,,,)

Rex

Tarn, now I think of it, I do believe you are right; Trotti was the guy. I was thinking Jack Broughton but he was the Thud Ridge author.

Strange they made no mention of that mod not being approved by TPTB, but doesn't surprise me, either. You could get away with a lot more stuff back then.

Thanks for the Idea, GoldHammer.

I was thinking about steel conduit tubing, with the "pretty shelf" on top, and the "working shelf" on the bottom, with edge trimming along the front. Sort of a sandwich deal. And just while typing this, I decided to use your idea instead, with the "pretty shelf" on top, and a clear surface on the bottom of your framing, to let the light shine through. Run angle stock all around the three edges of the "box" to set the shelf onto and attach it to.

Then I can do a "Gomer Pyle" scene with Quonset huts and Airfield stuff on it, then a Chu Lai setting on another "shelf" and a Carrier Deck on another. Maybe a WW II shelf while I am at it.

Thanks, you got the "little wheels in my head" spinning in some different directions, always a good thing, lol.

Rex

Straycat, that book was written by our very own John Trotti, a former CO of the Black Knights.

The main criteria for the creation of a Superbomber was that the aircraft had to have a "non-repairable malfunction in the outerwing pylon fuel transfer system" Without that malfunction, the load wasn't approved by Navair, lol. When I bought my Uncle his own copy of that book (I had to, at one time we were both Black Knights together, lol), he roared laughing when he hit that part. He had personally stripped out the fuel line fitting up in the wing that the fuel tank had to attach to, on one aircraft. He was nervous about reporting it, and when he did, he was told "thank you, Corporal" by his Sgt. Those fittings were replaceable, for sure,,,,,,,but, they didn't have any of them at Chu Lai at the time. So, creating a Superbomber became a perfectly legit deal with that airframe. "Goofy Gas" wasn't a part of Navair when it came to the Phantom era.

I do believe that later on during that war, some people fielded 22 and 24 bombs on their aircraft without the fuel malfunction.

Sorry,,,,,Trotti's stories always make me nostalgic, even if I was with them a decade after their voyage on the Valley Forge.

Rex

Tarn-  for your shelving project, think about 1/4 or 3/8 ply with some 1 inch alum angle underneath it, one front and back with the down leg flush with the edge and a couple more evenly spaced front to back, running side to side.  Could do the same with thick plexi, just the front and back angles if you want see through.  Can mount some LED strip lights at the rear edges on the plexi or center on the ply ones.

Seasick,

 Not sure if you were serious or not, but a safe bet is 2 sidewinders, 1-3 drop tanks, and AIM-120's on the remaining stations.  That said, it's a rare loadout nowadays, they usually carry some form of GBU.

Groot

Rob, I remember reading a paperback some years back I believe was called "Phantom over Vietnam"? Anyway, it was written by a Marine F-4 pilot about his experiences and he mentioned a configuration he called "Super Bomber". You took one F-4, put a MER on the centerline and both outer pylons, a TER on both inner pylons, loaded them all up with MK82 slicks for a total of 24 bombs, and prayed she'd get off the ground! Supposedly only REALLY experienced pilots were allowed to fly the airplane configured like that cuz they were an absolute beast to fly.

Another one I heard of used by VMFA-122 only was 3 20mm gun pods on the two outboard and the centerline pylon. Made a great CAS bird!

Wow...I'm glad I opened up this thread...way to go guys!! Fantastic amount of info!! So, I've decided (despite the bomb shortage...I'm gonna assume they had lots LOL, cuz, it's just plain wicked) to go with out board MERs, inboard TERs all packing full loads of Mk.82s (I'll cut off the fuse extenders to increase the amount the Hase kit provides), 4 sidewinder AIM 9Bs, 2 Sparrows mounted aft and the centreline tank, cuz, it needs some range. I want this to me a CAS version with air to air capacity.

Guys, thank you. Even when I don't ask the question I surely do learn a lot.

Thanks again,

Tom

geez, I just looked and I don't see any photos on this specific subject on my Photobucket. (I swear I remember posting the angled USAF head on photo online)

I do have a bunch though,,,,,,maybe I need to finish that Navair Notes pylon page?

Rex

I forgot about the fore to aft tilt,,,,,,that too. (there is also a for and aft shift for different loads)

I really did mean looking at the MER and pylon from the front, the two different services tilt out away from the landing gear. (for gear clearance with the bombs)

So, if you are standing in front of the aircraft, you see that the innerwing TER is "straight up and down" on both services, and the outerwing is "bent" on the Navair MERs (and MBRs), right at the MER to MER adapter line,,,,,while the USAF has all the outerwing parts in a straight line, but, angled out at the wing joint.

lemme go look and see if I have any photos in Photobucket

brb, Rex

Rex, quick question- when you say that the MERs were tilted relative to the wing, I take it that you mean a fore/aft tilt, and not side to side?

MJ-1 is the powered loading cart? (okay two questions)

oh, a little MER tidbit,,,,,,if you build USAF and put MERs on the outer wing pylons, the MER and pylon are in line with each other, but, the pylon is tilted relative to the aircraft's wing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you build USN/USMC or very early USAF, the pylon is perpendicular to the wing, but, the MER is tilted on the MER adapter on the pylon.

you can see that tilt on the VMFA-513 bird with the MJ-1

Haha, Stik. I don't really have that many weapons sets,,only about 50 sets from all the different manufacturers, so a Red Shirt wouldn't be appropriate for me. I don't really have any fondness for weapons sets, I am just sort of hooked on Hasegawa Jet models,,,,,,and that creates a built in need for things to hang on them, or I would wind up with a whole collection full of Jets carrying Drop Tanks with empty weapons pylons.

I was a Blue Shirt, after all. (mostly, and mostly a driver, at that).  To that end I have over 20 different Naval/Marine tractors,,,,,and to honor the Grapes I have about 20 different Fuel trucks,,,,,I do seem to have a bunch of bomb loading equipment too, though.

I see that some of your photos of the Dual Zuni load have the empty Sidewinder rail on them, Thanks for those shots, I will add them to my collection of "variations".

I am sorry, but, I know very little about the Hornet and Super Hornet loads, those were both "after my time" and I am building the bare minimum of them to fill out my squadron collection (I am not into the TPS/Low Viz deal much) But, Darren, Paul, Joe, etc, might be able to help you.

I have been "greenlighted" to build some sort of "wide and deep diorama display case", as soon as I can figure out how to make a 3 foot by 6 or 8 foot shelf without any sagging potential. She wants me to build a "section of Chu Lai" for my Uncle to come and look at on one shelf.

and there I go getting wordy again, sorry

Rex

Inboard TERs w/napalm and centerline gunpod

ok, this sucker is not going far from base, but can put a LOT of hurt on bad guys nearby...

MERs and TERs full of Snakeeyes, and a centerline MER w/3 napalm cans...

Zuni pods on TERs, Zuni tubes, and centerline Mk.82s on MER.

oh yes, and don't feel that just because you put your Phantom full of MERs and TERs that you have to load those all out with max loads. There were "bomb shortages" during Vietnam and as you have seen, less than full load outs were not rare.

OK, I am home on the desktop and can find you some Marine Phantom mud moving load out photos

This one appears to have 6 x M-117s on three TERs, inboard and centerline pylons

this one outboard pylons w/TERs and Mk.82 Snakeeyes

now here is a real mixed load out- inboard pylons with Zuni twin tubes, and TERs with Mk.81 Snakeeyes and centerline station holding another TER w/napalm cans

outboard MERs with MK.82s, inboard TERs with LAUs, Sparrows and Centerline tank

outboard MERs w/napalm cans, inboard TERs with single LAU

outboard MERs w/partial Mk.82 load, inboard TERs with single LAU

lots of mix and match warloads to get you going here

Tarnship: Do you know what a typical load out for a Super Hornet in a Interception mission?

Rex, I think we need to get you a red shirt since you have that bomb farm going.

For some reason I was thinking that there were only 6 standard 500 pounders per box.

I should have known better, or looked sooner. (laffing at myself)

You guys are providing some fantastic info...many thanks. Yes Stik..total Marines CAS bird for this one. Yes, Tarn, the set gives you the option to clip off the extension to make 'em regular Mk.82s.