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P-47D razorback cowling interior color?

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  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by tomwatkins45 on Friday, December 15, 2017 5:58 AM

I've seen that also, but it does seem to be the exception, as does the green zinc in wheel wells of Republic built AC. I think I'll go with dirty unpainted in the cowl, yellow zinc primer and dark dull green in the cockpit. Not 100% certain, but pretty safe,

Thanks,

Tom

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Friday, December 15, 2017 5:30 AM

I do have to correct something concerning engine cowls.  It is true they did come from the factory in anodized aluminum (bare metal), but it is evident that SOME were painted in the field, usually the cowling color.

Take a look at this thread:

http://p47.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=128328&page=1 

While images show "In The Mood" and "Teddy" (a P-47M) have unpainted metal cowl interiors, "Princess Pat" seems to have it's interior cowling painted the same color as its outside.  Nothing like photographic evidence to make you go "Hmmmm".

Still, the interior cowlings were not painted direct from the factory.

Gary

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by tomwatkins45 on Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:07 PM

This is interesting. According to the references the wheel wells on Republic built AC should have been yellow zinc, but I'll bet there were lots of exceptions for various reasons. I appreciate the information.

Thanks,

Tom

  • Member since
    January 2014
Posted by Silver on Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:47 AM

I have met in person a while back mr.Gabriski ww2 ace .In that meeting he explained that the aircraft w/razorback has interior green inner cowl and wheel wells.The bubble top were sink yellow Wheel wells.Also, his F-86 had interior green wells.

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 11:05 PM

tomwatkins45

Thank you ! This is excellent, very thorough information. Dark aluminum with oil stains it will be( I wondered about the combination of yellow and lots of oil).

Thanks again,

Tom

 
You're welcome!  I've seen lots of well-done P-47 models with painted cowl interiors.
"Restored" is my explanation.  Big Smile
 
Gary

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by tomwatkins45 on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 5:01 PM

Eric,

Not to worry, I've still got to spray the engine components and firewall. I'll just gray the mix out a bit and reshoot it.Piece of cake.

Thanks Again,

Tom

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by tomwatkins45 on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 4:58 PM

Thank you ! This is excellent, very thorough information. Dark aluminum with oil stains it will be( I wondered about the combination of yellow and lots of oil).

Thanks again,

Tom

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Posted by echolmberg on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 3:23 PM

Thank you GAF!  I stand corrected.  For the record, I never use restored aircraft as a reference source because I know how inaccurate they can be.  I'm at work right now so I can't remeber the name of the book I used as a reference but it did contain color photographs from WW2.  Sadly, the interior of the Thunderbolt cowls were often in shadow but I used yellow zinc chromate because I thought that's what one of the pictures showed.  If the original manuals indicate that it should be left as unpainted metal, then that's what I'll go by the next time I build a T-bolt.

That being said, I'm gonna have to go out and buy another Thunderbolt so I can get it right.  LOL!

Tom, if you've already painted your cowl interior based on my recommendation, then I do apologize if I gave you mistaken information.  

Eric

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Tuesday, December 12, 2017 10:57 AM

It's a misconception brought on by restored aircraft.  The interior cowls on P-47s were not painted.  With a radial engine slinging oil all about, what would be the point?

Here's a nice image of a P-47 razor-back.  Luckily, the sun is shining on the interior of the cowl.  It's not painted white, but is kind of an anodized aluminum (about the same color as that drop tank).

http://www.fightingcolors.com/P-47images/56fgrefcol.jpg

Hope this helps.

Gary

PS>  Naturally, this subject has come up before, so I found an old post with the IPMS Stockholm information on P-47 colors.

Republic P-47 Thunderbolt

The subject of cockpit colours of the P-47 seems to have thus far defied conclusive analysis. Surviving P-47s and contemporary photos show a dark green shade in the cockpit, similar or possibly equal to Dull Dark Green. This is in contrast with the available Erection and Maintenance manuals which invariably call for green-tinted primer in cockpit areas.

The 1944 Erection and Maintenance Instructions covering P-47C, G and D state that "cockpits shall be finished with one coat of tinted zinc chromate primer to eliminate glare resulting from untinted primer." As can bee seen, the use of "tinted primer" is not consistent with the Dark Dull Green found in other evidence.

Perhaps an explanation is to be found in the formula of tinted primer given in the above manual. Nowhere in the above document is the tinted Zinc Chromate specified to match ANA Interior Green. Instead, the specifications include a rudimentary mixing formula, described as one gallon Black to one gallon Yellow Zinc Chromate primer. The formula is probably an error. If the intended colour was to be Interior Green, the document should have stated 1/10 gallon Black to 1 gallon Zinc Chromate, consistent with other Erection and Maintenance documents of the period.

A possibility remains that Republic followed the instructions to the letter, obtaining some sort of black-green colour for the cockpit areas. Other hypotheses claim that the colour used could be Bronze Green or Dull Dark Green. Another mystery.

Another conventional wisdom states that Curtiss-built P-47Gs differed from Republic-build P-47Ds by having Interior Green (actually, Curtiss Cockpit Green) in the cockpit and wheel well areas. However, this does not seem to be consistent with examination of wrecked P-47G parts, which show Dark Dull Green in the cockpit.

Since there were less than 200 P-47Gs made and they were only used for training in the US, this controversy is of limited interest to modellers, which would usually be interested in Republic-made Thunderbolts.

According to the Erection and Maintenance manuals, the fuselage decking under the bubble canopy of the P-47D from the windscreen to the area aft of the cockpit armour plating, was to be painted Dark Olive Drab 41, the same colour being specified for the anti-glare area of the forward fuselage. Armour plating was specified to the same colour as the interior finish of the cockpit.

Another yet unresolved mystery is the turtleback area beneath the rearmost cockpit window of the razorback versions. Many variants have been called for, but the most likely choices (based on the available contemporary colour photographs) are Olive Drab for the early camouflaged aircraft, and some kind of medium grey further down in the production.

According to factory instructions, the fuselage decking inside the canopy on bubbletop Thunderbolts was to be painted in Olive Drab, with the inside of the canopy framing in flat black. The rear armour plate in the cockpit was to be painted to match the cockpit interior colour.

Interiors of P47 aircraft cowlings were natural metal. The aluminium in this area was anodised giving a darker and very dull greyish appearance. The engine firewall was left unpainted. Engine mounts were primed in Zinc Chromate Green.

All other interior surfaces of the fuselage with exception of the firewall were finished in Zinc Chromate Yellow. This included also wheel wells, undercarriage covers and armament compartments in the wings.

Undercarriage legs were painted Dark Olive Drab 41 on camouflaged aircraft. This practice continued over to at least some natural metal machines. At some point in production the requirement seems to have changed to allow an Aluminium lacquer finish to be used.

 
 

 

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by tomwatkins45 on Monday, December 11, 2017 5:23 PM

Thanks, that's what I thought but I appreciate the confirmation. Yellow zinc it will be.

Thanks again

Tom

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Posted by echolmberg on Monday, December 11, 2017 2:15 PM

Hi Tom,

I've got the same book and yes, I do believe the interior of the cowl would have been the yellow zinc chromate.  In fact, last month I finished off the Revell/Monogram P-47N.  I was wondering the same thing about the interior cowl color.  All my research on the 'net said that it should be YZC and so that's what I did.

Eric

  • Member since
    February 2013
P-47D razorback cowling interior color?
Posted by tomwatkins45 on Monday, December 11, 2017 1:59 PM

I'm building my 1st P-47 in many years. I'm doing Duane Beeson's O.D. and gray aircraft (4th Fighter Group). It's a Republic built A/C so the primer, according to the info in the Detail and scale book would have been yellow zinc chromate. Would the inside of the cowling also have been this color ?

Thanks,

Tom

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