Revell 1/48 Scale F-105D Thunderchief

Received the Mig Ammo Tac Air 60's-70's SEA camo acrylics kit today.  I ordered it on 11/22, so the cheapest shipping option took one month.  Not bad imo.  I already glued the fuselage using the tips provided earlier, and I think it came out good.  I still did around 2 hours of scraping, sanding sticks, and sanding, with maybe 2 more hours to go.  But it could have been way worse.  Then I will glue on the wings and horiz stabilizers, then maybe do some wing root putty and sanding, then rattle can priming.  Then I will spray the Mig Ammo acrylic with no mixing or thinning, which sounds just right for me.  My quest is to find the easiest, laziest methods that will give decent results.

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Hi Eaglecash 867, thanks again for the advice!  I was soaking the decals, I thought that was the only way.  I would've never thought of the sponge method in a hundred years.  But I will definitely try it with these decals at my earliest opportunity.

I will probably try the DIY decals with my next build.  But I will keep the Furball decals in mind as plan B.  So far I spent around $20 on waterslide decal sheets and $8 on rattle can clear coat.  I can probably use the clear coat for other stuff so it's not a total waste.  If I can't get the Koala laserjet paper to work, I will try the Sunnyscopa.  If that doesn't work, then I'll go for the Furball.

I was able to open the tracking for the Mig Ammo SEA camo set, it says still in international transit.  It doesn't give a delivery date so I am just waiting.  I just started the cockpit and fuselage.  With all the other distractions in my life, I probably won't even prime it until after New Years.

Your F4 build is beautiful.  I have the Monogram 1/48 F4 Mig Ace on the shelf, and when I build it I will use yours as a reference.

No problem Burrito King.  I forgot to mention it yesterday...not sure how you're soaking your decals.  I'm thinking you're doing it the way I used to, which is to dip each decal in water for 20-30 seconds (or 15 as you mentioned).  Something that I started doing that saves me a bunch of time on decaling is to take a shallow Gladware container (their 25 ouce square container), put a sponge in it, and get the sponge soaking wet.  Then you can take all of the decals you plan to put on in a sitting, cut them out...or leave them together in a larger patch if all of the adjacent decals on the sheet are ones you'll be using right then...and place them, decal-side up, on the wet sponge.  You'll see the water slowly being absorbed by the backing paper and it won't take long at all before they slide off the paper easily.  This method tends to help the decal retain more of its adhesive, since its not being dissolved and washed away in a glass of water.  You can lay multiple decals on the sponge and work at your leisure.  The other cool thing about doing it this way is if something comes up, or you just plain get burned out for the day, you can put a lid on that container and set it aside for another time...or even another day.  The decals will still be ready to go and won't be damaged by that.

Just a comment since you mentioned Furball Aero decals.  They are definitely well worth the money if you can swing it.  Their resolution and registration is unrivaled, and they're also extremely thin, strong, and flexible.  They lay down very nicely and most of them don't even have a perceptible edge once applied.  Can't say enough good things about them.  I used a couple of Furball Aero decal sets on my Marine Corps F-4B project (both their squadron markings decals and their placards/stencils decals).  That was quite a decaling project on an F-4.  I think it was well over 300 decals, with every panel placard and stencil being faithfully reproduced (heh...I even checked them against the NAVAIR for that aircraft that specifies placards and stencils).  The afforementioned sponge technique for soaking decals turned that into far less of a daunting task than it would have been.

Here's a link to a WIP I did for that build so you can get an idea of how Furball decals look.:

https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/190981.aspx

Hi stikpusher, Eaglecash867, thank you so much for the advice and encouragement!  I have learned so much from this forum.  This is one of those things that seems so obvious in hindsight, I feel like a complete idiot for not thinking of it.  But I am sure gloss coat and decal solution will make a huge improvement.  I also believe soaking the decal longer might help.  Even though it was laser printed, I was so afraid of the ink running that I barely let it soak for 15 seconds.

So, I have a decision to make.  Invest more time and effort to improve the bomb decals, or regroup and fight another day.  Tbh I am reluctant to put so muich effort into bombs, I will probably get on with the rest of the build.  However, I think my next build will be the P-47D flown by Major Glenn Eagleston in France 1944.  I don't think I will find a kit with those markings, Furball has a decal set with markings for 4 or 5 different P-47's including Eagleston's.  But it is around $20 plus shipping.  So I will try the laserjet decals with the tips you provided.  Hopefully the smoother NMF finish will help.

As far as the bombs go, my main issue is opacity, the words came out too faint.  The photo was taken with a flash and zoomed in, so the words are readable.  But to the naked eye the words are barely visible.  Imo there is not much point in making the words unless you can read them.  I sized the letters to be about .028" tall, which at full scale would be 1.34".  These are way too big compared to actual photos.  If I make the size even close to accurate, they would be way too faint and small to read.  Plus, the moderate weathering I am planning will further obliterate the words.  I think I will use the remaining decals I have already printed to practice the tips on a test A-10 I have laying around.

Your experience with the inkjet is pretty similar to mine.  Also, last week I had the Amazon Sunnyscopa in my cart and was in checkout when I saw the shipping was $5.99.  So I emptied my cart and bought Koala with free shipping from Walmart.  I saved about $5, but maybe got an inferior product.  Hopefully it will work better with the tips.

It has been around 3 weeks since I ordered the Mig Ammo acrylic SEA camo set.  I cannot get results with the tracking link, so idk where it is.  If it doesn't arrive in a couple weeks, I might order MRP from Spraygunner or Sprue Bros.  Even if I end up receiving the Mig Ammo, I plan on building other SEA camo planes, so it won't go to waste.

It all looks like its coming together nicely, Burrito King.  I feel your pain on the frustration with printing decals.  I tried inkjet to begin with and the whole sealing process was a major PITA.  Once I finally got enough sealant on mine to keep the ink from running, the decals were incredibly thick, and then I tried using setting solution to get them settled down.  Not only did the setting solution not do much to the decal film (due to the sealant), but it started removing the sealant, turning it into a slimy mess that got stuck all over the model...and then the freakin' ink started to run because the sealant was gone.  LOL.  I got a color laser printer, just because I was tired of spending 100 bucks every 6 months to get the 10 pages I print in that amount of time printed.  The rest of the ink always just dried up from inactivity.  The first go with laser decal paper was with "the good stuff" from Micromark, and for some strange reason, that still needed to be sealed.  That didn't make any sense, since toner is more like a wax that gets melted and smashed into the paper...so that garbage went in the circular file.  Then I tried some stuff I found on Amazon made by Sunnyscopa...their clear paper.  It turned out to be the magic bullet, except for the fact that the opacity of even laser toner leaves a lot to be desired, but it didn't need sealant of any kind, and it tolerated setting agents really well without removal of the color.  For what I was trying to accomplish though, their white decal paper did it all.  Good opacity of the colors with the white background, and the decals I was making were all meant to completely cover where they were applied, with none of the underlying surface needing to show through.

As Stik already said, putting on a gloss coat before applying the decals helps significantly with getting the decal film to blend in.  Since we had talked about MRP paint before, that is one of the built-in advantages of that paint.  Even their "flat" FS colors are all actually semi-gloss, and the reason they do that is because they know you're going to put on a gloss coat anyway before decaling.  They figured there's no point in making a flat paint...so that eliminates a step.  Decals snuggle down quite nicely on bare MRP paints.  My setting solution routine usually consists of about 3 applications of MicroSol, followed by another 2 or 3 applications of Walthers Solvaset.  A lot of guys are successful using just the Solvaset, but I found it too easy to unintentionally "burn" decals with those.  The color would literally lift up and slowly ooze out of where it was meant to be.  Starting with MicroSol made it so that was no longer a risk...I no longer had to stress about using exactly the right technique.  If you get them to snuggle down, the opacity of the yellow might still leave a lot to be desired though.  Dry transfers like Stik mentioned might be a good way to deal with that issue as well on future builds.

Here's the Sunnyscopa paper if you ever wanted to give it a try some time:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunnyscopa-Urethane-Transfer-Transparent-sheets/dp/B076VFHV1F/ref=dp_prsubs_sccl_2/146-3171785-5280415?pd_rd_w=nM2wR&content-id=amzn1.sym.1179ac71-bcd0-4ec5-9c37-37cc097a57e2&pf_rd_p=1179ac71-bcd0-4ec5-9c37-37cc097a57e2&pf_rd_r=7D2074EZB1YAQRSVDT0H&pd_rd_wg=qcnvx&pd_rd_r=501844e6-434b-4786-87ed-711d3dd0082f&pd_rd_i=B076VFHV1F&th=1

Looks like you have a bit of silvering under the decal. If you gloss coat the bombs before adding the decals that could reduce or remove the chance of decal silvering. Perhaps you may want to check and see if there are any dry transfer bomb stencils available in 1/48.

OK, so I wanted to put the yellow words on the bombs.  You can get ready made decals for about $15 for a sheet that will do maybe 10 bombs.  So I tried inkjet waterslide decal paper.  Long story short, I tried various sealing techniques but couldn't stop the ink from running when I applied them.  So I tried some laserjet waterslide decal paper.  It was better, but not what I was hoping for.  Maybe I'll give it some time, and try to apply some decal solution or some flat clear coat.  But I think I will accept defeat for now.

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Hi stikpusher, I was working from actual photos and they did show different shades for the bombs and the tailfins, exactly like you said.  It was just that my bombs seemed to be trying too hard to look random, if that makes sense.  But based on your information, I will leave them as is and focus on weathering.  Looking at the photos, it seems to me that the bombs are steel and the fins might be aluminum.  Also, the weathering on the bombs in the bottom photo seems different from normal airframe weathering.  Like you said, the bombs are stored away from the planes and subjected to harsher conditions.  It looks like the bombs on the bottom photo may have been rolled around on the dirt or concrete.

I looked at a lot of bomb photos over the past weeks, and they range from almost brand new to heavily worn.  I am going for something in the middle.  I am going to try different weathering to try to simulate this.  Maybe some dry brushing with graphite acrylic, then rust acrylic, with some rusty raw umber washes, topped off with Taniya rust and dirt makeup.  The fins might get some light gray oxidation and dirt.  It might just be my imagination, but bombs on Navy carriers seem to have the more normal grease and oil stains like you would see on an airframe.  Maybe because they are stored differently.

airman-orion-fredrick-57th-maintenance-squadron-munitions-systems-HEB796

1280px-Republic_F-105D-30-RE_(SN_62-4234)_in_flight_with_full_bomb_load_060901-F-1234S-013

burrito king

 

Also, as I look at them all together, I don't like how each one has mismatched bomb and tailfin shades. It reminds of the scene in Silence of the Lambs where Hannibal tells Clarice, "Doesn't this random scattering of sites seem desperately random?" In real life, I'm sure some or most of the bombs and tailfins actually matched. So imma repaint a couple so they match.

 

Actually in real life, the fin assembly and the bomb itself usually did not match in shades of OD with the tail fins being more pristine. The bombs were kept in bomb dumps away from the aircraft flight line, exposed to weathering from the elements. The fins were kept in a seperate area protected because damage to them would affect their ballistics when dropped. The fins would be added by armorers shortly before being installed on the aircraft.

Now proceeding to fuselage and wings. Just a basic build, probably nothing of interest to post. Hoping to have the plane glued, surface prepped, and primed by Chistmas. Also hoping to receive the Mig Ammo acrylics in a week or two. My next post will probably be about using the Mig Ammo acrylics for the SEA camo scheme, and how they compare to MM enamels. Until then, have a great holiday, and hopefully you find plenty of models, airbrushes, paints, and other good stuff under your trees!

Hi Gary, idk what grit it is, but I "borrowed" a sanding stick from my wife's fingernail kit. It is probably about 180 grit and it works well for initial material removal. But lately I've been using the scraping technique with a xacto knife. Like you said, whatever works!

Glad the 400 grit sticks worked out for you.  Me, I use something even rougher (180) and polish with higher grit.  Whatever works!

Gary

Did the alignment and gluing according to Eaglecash867's tips and then used ca and putty to fill seams and gaps.  It could be my imagination, but the Revell fit and alignment seemed inferior to Tamiya or Hasegawa.  So even with the good seam and gap filling techniques, I still needed to do a fair amount of scraping and 400 grit sand stick work to get the halves to blend.  But it would have been far more work without the tips, so thanks again Eaglecash867 and Gary!

It is far below the level of the master builders in this forum, but I am happy with it.  I feel like I am making progress.  Like they say, when you're at the bottom the only direction to go is up.  I still have to do some wet sanding on the primer and apply the main coats when the Mig Ammo acrylics arrive.  Next I will start building the plane itself.

The bottom seam is still visible, but it is far better than my previous work.

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Hi Eaglecash867, I am definitely learning that extra time up front usually results in less time and effort in the long run. Today the tanks just required a small amount of scraping. Also the 400 grit sanding sticks recommended by Gary arrived and they were perfect for final shaping after the scraping. Overall it was way easier and faster than the bombs. Tomorrow I will use your method of ca and sharpie followed by sanding. Then I will prime.

Speaking of the bombs, thanks for the compliment. My Mig Ammo SEA acrylics still haven't arrived, so I used my stash of MM enamel for the bombs. My recent results with MM enamel have been pretty bad.  Maybe it was the primer, maybe it was improved skill, but I am happy with the finish this time. I still have to do the weathering.

Also, as I look at them all together, I don't like how each one has mismatched bomb and tailfin shades. It reminds of the scene in Silence of the Lambs where Hannibal tells Clarice, "Doesn't this random scattering of sites seem desperately random?" In real life, I'm sure some or most of the bombs and tailfins actually matched. So imma repaint a couple so they match.

burrito king

Today I glued the fuel tanks using the method from Eaglecash867. It worked great, the alignment and adhesion was better than the bombs. Thanks Eaglecash867!  They still need some mild scraping and sanding, but it's far better than it would've been. I'm going to let it dry overnight, then start the final surface prep. On my last Thud build 35 years ago, I glued the tanks in 5 minutes. Today it took almost an hour.

Glad it worked well for you, Burrito King!  It definitely takes longer up front, but it saves you so much time later on since you're not having to fix as much.  I learned that method from some guys in Singapore who have a YouTube channel...I think the channel is called Spruecutters.  Give that CA and black Sharpie thing a try too when you're filling seams.  You'll love it...it changed everything for me.  Contrary to the conventional wisdom on that, its only slightly more difficult to sand than putty, and that's the good thing about it...it stays where you want it to stay, and it doesn't crack the first time you accidentally drop your model onto your benchtop.  The Sharpie leveling indicator keeps you from taking off too much and sanding into the plastic.

Your ordnance looks great!

Today I glued the fuel tanks using the method from Eaglecash867. It worked great, the alignment and adhesion was better than the bombs. Thanks Eaglecash867!  They still need some mild scraping and sanding, but it's far better than it would've been. I'm going to let it dry overnight, then start the final surface prep. On my last Thud build 35 years ago, I glued the tanks in 5 minutes. Today it took almost an hour.

After surface prep I'll apply a coat of primer. I have never primed my models before, but I had to do it for my alclad P-38.  This Thud is molded in a very dark olive brown, so I feel a coat of light gray primer would help the main paint go on with fewer coats. It seemed to work ok for the bombs. I have a bunch of rattle can primer left over, so why not? It's not that much work, even for my lazy ass.

Hi Strongeagle, I was able to see the 105 up close at the USS Aabama memorial park and at March AFB. I was also in awe of its sheer size. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the largest single engine fighter ever. It's hard for me to imagine one engine powering that plane and bomb load so fast at low altitude. Idk how fast they came in along Thud Ridge, maybe Mach 1 at 5-10 thousand feet?

burrito king

Hi John, D or G would be equally great under the tree!  I love the G with the wild weasel mouth markings.  One thing I noticed when I opened my 105D, it is a huge plane.  It makes the P-38 look puny.

 

Last few days have been slow going, just a lot of distractions from regular life.  But I got the ordnance surface prep and painting done.  Still gotta do some weathering, but those boys are almost ready for the one-way trip to Hanoi.  I noticed from photos and reading that the bomb and tailfins were separate pieces, and often different shades.  So I tried to mix them up.  My surface prep and painting are improving, still got a ways to go.  But I think I am getting that nice balance between improving without getting too tedious.  My #400 sanding sticks are due to arrive by Friday, in the meantime I'll try to start gluing the 450-gal fuel tanks using the tips I received.  I am hoping the scraping and the sanding sticks will help me get rid of those seam lines.

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Hi Gary, thanks for the tip. I was thinking the same thing. At first I was looking at a Micromesh set that had 1500 to 12000 but I passed. I found several sets that had 80 to 240 but those seemed too coarse. The 800 to 1500 seemed like a good middle ground. Based on your tip I got a set of four 400's from Amazon for $8.50 incl shipping. So I think I am good, for now.

Burrito King,

Referencing sanding sticks, you might want something smaller than 800 grit for those tough jobs.  Perhaps 240 up to 400 might serve.  Anything higher is mostly for polishing.

Gary

Hi Eaglecash867, I really appreciate these tips you and the other experienced modelers are providing. When I first started getting back into the hobby earlier this year, I relied on the methods I developed from childhood through early adulthood. But as I get further along now, with all the amazing information and products currently available, I am deciding that I don't want to live with bombs and fuel tanks with seam gaps, and other sloppy results. Like keavdog said, we want to improve while still keeping it fun. The key is to develop the right balance of effort to get the desired results without making it too laborious and tedious. I imagine it's a balancing act every modeler has to face.

Having said that, I am learning that doing the correct techniques and extra effort up front will provide better results and also save time and effort later. I am sure the tips you provided will do exactly that, and I will use it on my next subassys, the 450 gal wing tanks and the fuselage.  If I do it right, it will reduce the sanding and other work after gluing.  I am actually learning a lot from doing these bombs and fuel tanks, which I used to regard as mere accessories, barely worth any time or effort.

I have been using Tamiya Extra Thin also, and I saw that tip about the airbrush cleaner...definitely going to try that when I run out.  Might also try MEK, since I always have plenty of that.

One of the issues with Tamiya Extra Thin is that it evaporates REALLY quickly, so with that its best to hold your two pieces together with just a tiny gap between them...and then tap the little Tamiya brush to that little gap.  You'll be able to see the liquid flow out along that little gap between the parts because of capillary action.  If you wait about 20 seconds, and then press the parts together nice and hard, you should then see a little bead of melted plastic ooze out of the seam fairly evenly.  The plastic will stay soft for a little while, which will give you time to correct the alignment of the two parts so you get panel lines lined up and make sure that you don't have one side of the joint higher than the other.  This often works well on even poorly fitting parts if you work them together a little bit at a time.  Sometimes you have to let one small section harden fully before moving onto the next, so it provides structural support and you're not having to work so hard to keep everything lined up.  After you get a subassembly done, if you let it sit overnight, you can then come back and gently sand away those little beads of melted plastic.  You'll end up with two pieces that are now welded together and you'll have far fewer gaps to deal with filling.  Filling gaps is where I started using CA.  I just take a toothpick and apply VERY tiny dabs of it to the places that still need filling.  After letting that cure overnight (or you can use an accelerator), I use a black Sharpie and scribble on and around the little cured dabs of CA.  That acts as a leveling indicator, so you can just gently wet sand until all of the black is gone.  Once all of the black is gone, you should be able to shoot a little primer on there and see that the gap is now completely gone.  Even if you see a tiny spot that got missed, CA can be dabbed right over the top of the primer...can't really do that with the typical modelling putty.  Anyway, try playing around with some of those techniques.  You'll find them to be a huge time saver that makes your model building much more fun and rewarding.

Thanks Eaglecash867!  It is going slow, I have many distractions that take away from my model building.  But at least it is progressing.

Thanks for the tip on the sanding sticks.  I checked them out and I think they will be a great addition to my finishing kit.  I bought some for $11.89 incl shipping from Walmart.  They are 800, 1000, and 1500 grit.  I am planning to use these for the 450 gal wing tanks and the fuselage.

I am using Tamiya extra thin liquid cement.  Actually Tamiya Airbrush Cleaner which someone (perhaps you) gave me the tip it is the same thing at a much lower price.  Overall it works great, but some of the M117's and MK 82's didn't stick too good because of the seam gaps.  I read some older discussions, and get better results when I apply it to both halves, and hold them tight with my fingers for 5 minutes or so.  But I think it works better on higher quality parts that have a very tiny seam gap.  I tried CA, but I tend to get fingerprints and other problems, such as difficulty sanding the seams.  CA dries pretty hard and I am sanding-challenged as it is.  I am thinking to go back to good ol' Testors cement for some of these less precise parts.

Glad to read your Thud is progressing, Burrito King.  As an alternative to scraping, you might also want to try sanding sticks some time.  They give you a nice, smooth, rounded appearance on your ordnance.  Just curious, what kind of cement are you using to put things together?

I hope everybody had a great Thanksgiving! I've been working on the seam lines of the M117 bombs and almost ready for priming. I found an old discussion on seam lines and tried a technique that seems to work really good for me. It is called scraping and you drag a sharp hobby.knife along the seam to make the edges match. The blade should be perpendicular to the seam, with the top of the blade angled slightly in the direction of scraping. This works especially well when one side of the seam is higher than the other side. I am using this on the Mk 82 bombs and I think it will save me a lot of filing and sanding.

Hi stikpusher, I'm working on some ideas to use this ordnance to enhance the build.  In a couple weeks I'll see how it turns out!

Hi John, you're right about that.  When it gets near the end I also tend to rush.  So far doing the ordnance up front is working well.  I'm using this as an opportunity to work on my sanding and putty skills.  And getting the right balance between improving and having fun is the real trick.

burrito king

Hi stikpusher, so many models and books, so little time.  However, I'm taking my time with this build since I am not expecting my Ammo-Mig alcrylics to arrive any time soon.  So I'm working on the ordnance rn.  I'm actually applying putty to the glue seams on the bombs!  I never thought I'd do that lol.  But when I think about it, the bombs, racks, and fuel tanks are actually kinda important.

 

Understandable. Poor looking ordnance will detract from your finished build, while well made ordnance will enhance that same build.

I'm right there with you my friend... get close to the finish line and I tend to rush.  We can only strive to get a bit better - while keeping it fun.