Knights of the Sky II- The End

Thanks Mobious. I already wiped off the offending green paint from the fuselage sides and resprayed it Tan agian. I am going to let it dry tonight and put some stripes on the fuselage tomorrow. Man I knew these birds were not easy to build but this one is really busting my chops! It is a good thing it is such a nice kit otherwise I might have pounded into the table by now. When I finish it I will be able to say I learned alot of new techniques. A first for lozenge decals a first for WWI biplane and a first at using oils to obtain a finish. Wow this is almost like work! I would not have been able to do it without all of the help from all of you guys here. Thank you everyone Justin Frank Stephen and Mobious. I really appreciate all of the input.

                                                                                       Soulcrusher

MrDrummy wrote:

No no no!! Don't dump it!!  Just finish the sides like the top. Start on the later version, and set that one aside for a little bit.  I really think that you've got the technique down, because that top section is awesome, SC.  Just take some time, and do a little of the sides at a time, and when you're done, man, that thing will be awesome. Don't dump it!!!

 Hey SC, Dont Do It, Step Back, Take A Good Look Around, Then try it again. If you only knew how many times a kit, not just a biplane, I've earmarked for the round file, Gessh. I've even had to rescue one from the dreaded hanger 13 once(or mavbe twice), dust it off and try again. My third attempt at a DVII looks like it belongs with the Jimmy Hendrix Magical Flying Circus! Hehe. But seriously the top looks great and like MrDrummy's said you've got the oil technique down. Just a little more stickwithitiness and that DVII will look cool.

 OBTW Frank, that is one fine 109.

Thanks agian Justin. I've cooled down now and the fact that I was able to remove the green without damaging the rest of the fuselage means I have gotten past the point where I wanted to dump it in the trash. That and the fact that I found a way to duplicate the streaking with oils means she will live to see another day. I usally build WWII stuff and I have been doing it for so long over 30 years that I do not need to realy on instruction sheets to obtain the proper camo colors. In fact the Hasegawa Macchi 202 I just finished I caught several mistakes in the kit and the camo pattern and color call outs in the instructions were 100% wrong. I found actual pictures in that case. My complete lack of knowledge of these WWI birds and lack of photos is why I feel prey to the lousy Eduard color call outs. The main reason I joined this GB was to learn more about these early biplanes and I definetly have. Some lessons the hard way too!

                                                                                        Soulcrusher

Hey, SC--

Yeah, as far as I know, (and Stephen would definitely know better,) the Fokker camo should be the same on the top and the sides of the fuselage.  Maybe this particular aircraft is green, but doubt that Stephen would have said anything about it if it were supposed to be!  I'm certain that he'd know about such an oddball aircraft.

Eduard does some strange things sometimes.  I'm pretty sure that they got a couple of colors wrong on some of their lozenge sheets, and their color callouts are sometimes a little iffy.  I've seen some erroneous calls on some of their WWII stuff as well.  Maybe they're just taking for granted that we're already supposed to know what that Fokker streaked camo looks like.  Who knows.  The Roden kits are definitely sparse when it comes to information!!

Anyway, don't dump that thing, buddy.  Just breathe,  and recreate the same effect on the sides as you have on the top.  It's really going to turn out great, SC!!

Thanks Justin. This fuselage is really pissing me off! So the sides of the fuselage are suppose to look like the top? Then I'm gonna kick some Eduard Butt! here is scan of the color profile. I thought they were suppose to be boxing the best WWI kits out there. How can they make such a huge mistake?

I had no problem streaking the upper fuselage. I sprayed the fuselage MM Tan the I got some green artist oils and sreaked the top and adjusted it till it looked like the picture. If the sides are suppose to look like the top then I would have had this fuselage sides done last week when I did the top.!!!! Once agian I am screwed by an instruction sheet. I wiped off all of the green from the fuselage sides. At least the oil paints were not dry so they came right off. Now I am going to paint the fuselage for about the fourth time now.  Mabye tomorrow after I've cooled down a bit.

                                                                                    Soulcrusher

No no no!! Don't dump it!!  Just finish the sides like the top.

Start on the later version, and set that one aside for a little bit.  I really think that you've got the technique down, because that top section is awesome, SC.  Just take some time, and do a little of the sides at a time, and when you're done, man, that thing will be awesome.

Don't dump it!!!

StephenLawson wrote:

soulcrusher wrote:                                                                               Soulcrusher Pardon me but why are the sides green?

All I have to go by is the color booklet. I have no pictures of the real thing so I copied the booklet. I whish I never chose this particular plane. I think it was a big mistake. If it really is that far off I might just dump the whole thing in the round file. I am really getting tired of repainting the fuselage. I bought the Dual Combo kit so at this point I am seriously thinking about just building the late version with the second kit without the streaked fuselage camo. Its just not work the time and trouble.

                                                                                     Soulcrusher

Soulcrusher--

I'm with Stephen here.  If that's supposed to be your typical Fokker streaked camo, then the top looks great, but the sides are green.  It kinda looks like you copied what's in that book.  I'm not a pro, but I've never seen it green like that.

I'm terrified of that streaked camo!  Seriously, great job on that top bit.

StephenLawson wrote:

From the left was a Fokker Schwerin  practice.  The others went from the middle / center by all accounts.

Then I'm starting from the center!!

StephenLawson wrote:

Remember that the wings were interchangable And repairs were an ongoing issue.  Its the serial numbers that will give you the greatest help in an airframe's identity.

According to the Roden instructions, the serial number of this a/c is unknown.  I'll be building this one.  Another black aircraft!  What can I say?  I do notice one thing right off the bat-- I'll need to use the telescopic gunsight from the Fokker Dr. I that I didn't use, as Roden doesn't include one.

The story of Willy Rosenstein is a fascinating as well!

StephenLawson wrote:

Yes, and the lower wing as well.

Thanks, Stephen!  As always, most helpful!  I'm painting the engine today, and probably going to get a coat of gloss paint down on the wings to set the decals on.

soulcrusher wrote:

Soulcrusher

Pardon me but why are the sides green?

MrDrummy wrote:

". . .On the top of the wing of my Fokker, I basically have two options:  I can start on the left hand side of the wing and simply go across until I run out of room, or start from the center, and head outwards, correct. . .

From the left was a Fokker Schwerin  practice.  The others went from the middle / center by all accounts.

MrDrummy wrote:

Is it as "simple" as finding a photo of the aircraft I'm modeling, or did certain factories tend to do one or the other. . .

Remember that the wings were interchangable And repairs were an ongoing issue.  Its the serial numbers that will give you the greatest help in an airframe's identity.

MrDrummy wrote:

I'm also expecting to do a half-turn on every other section of lozenge on the top wing.  Would this be correct for a factory late Albatros built D. VII. . .

Yes, and the lower wing as well.

Thanks for the honest opinion Frank. I thought about the buff overspray too but I have never tried it before. How much do you thin the paint down. It sounds like a good plan because I should be able to control how much I lighten it by how many passes I make with the airbrush. I have only tryed something similar on Luftwaffe mottleling on the sides of the fuselage to blend the mottleing in with the lightblue background and I have always been pleased with the results. If you could suggest how thin to make the dusty overcoat I think I might try it.

                                                                                            Soulcrusher

Scott- Got your new build on the list!  Was it OK that I placed it over the other one (forgot what it was now! )?

SC- I gotta admit, I like the effect you acheived though as far as accuracy- I cannot comment.  Looks a little stark between the top deck streaking and the sides, hope the clearcoat blends it in.  Have you ever considered using a highly thinned dusty color such as Tamiya buff to blend?  I use that technique (especially on desert AC) and I like how it turns out.  Here's an example on a 109 I did a few years ago:

Before-

After-

Anyway, that's my honest opinion, hope it helps!

(Hehehe... can you believe I found a way to post 109 pics here?)

Ok I finally have made some progress on the fuselage of my Fokker. I think I have spent more time on the fuselage than I have ever spent on one before. I chose an early D VII with the streaked camo. I assumed it was a decal because it was so complex and had so many colors it would be impossible to paint. By the time I looked through the ten sheets of decals and realised I would have to paint it the model was half build. Thats why I put it aside for a while. I decided the only chance I had to make it look anything like the pictures was to use artist oils and blend the colors together. The long drying time of the oils makes this possible as well as the ability to wipe anything of you do'nt like without ruining any of the acrylic paints already on the model. It is not an exact match for the pictures but its the best I can do. I plan on putting a coat of dullcoat that I have that has gone bad and dries with a slightly milky apperance. I am hopeing this will toneit down and fade the colors together. I have used it before to give a plane a overall sunfaded apperance and it works pretty good. Let me know what you think and please if you think it sucks tell me. I know you guys are all to nice to say something like that but I really would like to know exactly what you think. If you think it sucks tell me! I'm a big boy I wo'nt cry I promise.

                                                                              Soulcrusher 

Ludwig,

Thanks for the link!  I will have to look for them at any future shows that I attend.  Perhaps I can pick some up at the IPMS nationals this year.

Justin,

What exactly are you beating yourself up over?  That triplane looks awfuly good as is!

Stephen,

Once again, thanks for sharing some great informaiton!

Frank,

Here is the box top of my project as the Tirpitz build is done done!  I sprayed the wood base color in the interior earlier today, and will see about streaking it with oils this evening, and possibly starting some construction.  Lots going on this weekend getting ready for graduation next Sunday, as there will be several folks here to see my son.  Anyway, I am back on board, and glad to be here!

StephenLawson

Truly sorrowful about the Nieuports.  But your skilled hands should have them back in shape in no time at all.

Frank please add two more Fokker Dr.I types to my name on the build page.  But these are DML / Dragon 1/48 kits.

Here is a bit of fun concerning 1/48 scale streaking and a further note of how to do it.

Fokker Streaked camouflage 1/48 - painted. At right the base coat is a light almond colour representing unbleached linen. At left the finished Fokker type streaked camouflage. The dark solid fields were for the crosses. It was ordered to bring the factory white fields of the pattee or iron crosses down to a narrow border. With the balkan crosses the border was at first widened then narrowed down in specific ratio later in the war.

Fokker Streaked camouflage 1/48 - painted. Here the finished Fokker type streaked camouflage. The wings were hand painted at the factory and the streaked fields varied from airframe to airframe.

To continue, here are some examples of hand painted streaking on Eduard and DML Dr.I kit fuselages.

There you go.  That's much easier.

Ok, Stephen.  A quick couple of questions about the lozenge pattern: (hopefully they'll be quick, anyway...)

On the top of the wing of my Fokker, I basically have two options:  I can start on the left hand side of the wing and simply go across until I run out of room, or start from the center, and head outwards, correct? 

Is it as "simple" as finding a photo of the aircraft I'm modeling, or did certain factories tend to do one or the other? 

I'm also expecting to do a half-turn on every other section of lozenge on the top wing.  Would this be correct for a factory late Albatros built D. VII?

Thanks a lot for the help out, Stephen.  This is fascinating stuff!!

Here you go.

Lozenge 101

Hey, guys!  Thanks a lot for the kind words on the Fokker.  It was definitely nice to get this one up on the shelf, as it has just been sitting on my shelf for quite awhile.  I had originally bought it for the first KOTS build, but just never got to it.

The Fokker D. VII is coming along-- I've gotten the wings together, and I guess the next step will be to get the lozenge camouflage put on.  I've been immersing myself in Stephen's great lozenge article, and trying to learn as much as I can about this stuff.  There's definitely a lot to learn.  I can't seem to get the link tool to work, so here's the url to that article/thread, just in case someone missed it somehow.

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=87962&page=1

Thanks again, fellas.  Can't wait to see some more stuff that y'all are doin'.  It's all looking so good!

She Looks great Justin! Very different than what I'm use to seeing.

Frank thats exactly what I was doing last night for two hours. Trying different technics to duplicate the stripes on the top of the fuselage. Basicly I dicovered about twenty different ways that do'nt work until I hit on some thing some thing that look decent. Now I am going to try to figure out how to duplicate the stained green fabric on the fuselage sides. This will probally take me another several hours of trying different things. The only good thing is I am using oils over enamels and I can keep wiping off the paint and trying something else without disturbing the enamels underneath. This way I can keep trying one thing after another until I find something that works.

                                                                                         Soulcrusher

Stunning work Justin. The black scheme looks spot on.

...Guy

Excellent work Justin!  Those Dragon kits are a bit challenging, but you did a wonderful job on it.  Well done!   Nice to see the Albatros again as well.  I updated page one and added the Roden kit for you.

SC- These WWI kits are a bit different, aren't they?  Some trying techniques, but addictive nonetheless.  Hang in there, I'm looking forward to seeing your work!

Thanks soulcrusher.

Holy baling wire Batman... Wow lots of nice stuff still pouring out of here. 

Looks just fine to me Mr. D.  Looks like it is ready to tkae to the air.

All done!  Screwups abound...  don't hate.  This was a tough little build-- so fragile!
 
Painted on markings for Josef Jacob's 450/17 in early June of 1918.







There's no lean on the real item--that's just a bad photographer at work.


Forgive the propeller--I'm in the process of carving a new one out of thin wood laminates.  I absolutely could not get the effect right with paint.  


This is the Fokker along side my last KOTS build, Eduard's Albatros D.III.

Thanks guys!  Always a pleasure.

Frank, I'm going to go ahead and throw another one on the build, if you don't mind:  Roden's Fokker D. VII (Alb, Late version.)  I'll probably get started on that within the week!

SC: Get to work!! :)

Well I spend two hours tonight on the Fokker and all I have to show for it is the strips on the top of the fuselage. It took me forever the get them just right. man the fuselage on the bird is taking forever to complete. I still have to wait for the oil paints to dry on the top then mask the sides and paint them green then mask the fuselage agian for the gray bottom then mabye I can start moving foward agian on this one.

                                                                                              Soulcrusher

More Power Scotty wrote:

Marc, That Camel is astounding! Ludwig, The black Dr.1 looks very nice indeed.  I was wondering what type of paint it is that you show in the background of the streaked and all red Dr.1 photo.  I have never seen a paint line with WWI colors.  I am assuming it is something unavailable to us in the states (or do you prefer colonies? ).

hi,its called "mister kit" and they do a full range of WW1 colours

http://www.misterkitusa.com/

and there available to all our colonies

Frank,

If all goes as planned (does that ever really work for anyone?), I should be back at it this weekend as the Tirpitz sets sail from my bench.  I was looking at my stash of kits yesterday, and I am thinking about one of my Weekend Edition Eduard kits (I need something a bit easier than a 300 plus part, 1/700 scale ship).  I will firm things up later in the week.

Marc,

That Camel is astounding!

Ludwig,

The black Dr.1 looks very nice indeed.  I was wondering what type of paint it is that you show in the background of the streaked and all red Dr.1 photo.  I have never seen a paint line with WWI colors.  I am assuming it is something unavailable to us in the states (or do you prefer colonies? ).

Ludwig-- those Dr I's are looking great!  That streaking pattern is awesome.  I will always try to steer clear of that stuff.  It's frightening!!!

Thanks a lot, guys.  Means a lot, and keeps me going!!!  The black scheme is cool, but I've never seen so much dust in all my life!!! It can be a bit frustrating! 

Was up all night last night, and so I figured I'd get some more work done-- a quick shot to show you where I'm at at the moment:

Upside down with the landing gear (what do you call this?) drying.  I bet that I'll be done by the end of the week.  

Thanks guys.

And SC, of course we missed you. ;)