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The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2010

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  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:28 PM

SMILE -- I must agree, my eyes don't like the small stuff anymore either. Oh, to build at 1:32! I'm doing 1:72 by necessity, I need to build a new display case, my last one is now chock full, and the less strain on things the better for the next few months.

My pleasure, the more the merrier, I hope we have a remarkable squadron come midyear.

Cheers, Mike/Tb379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: Weirton, West Virginia
Posted by xradio81 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:23 PM

Yes, 1/48 scale is my favorite. My eyes don't work at 1/72 scale anymore. This will be my first build of 2010. I will document mods to the Revell kit as I progress. Thanks for the warm welcome.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:07 PM

Hi xradio81 -- welcome aboard, I'll add you to the squadron manpower listing! What scale is that? The 1:48?

Cheers, looking forward to seeing this plane,

 

Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: Weirton, West Virginia
Posted by xradio81 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 8:56 PM

I would like to submit a Revell F4D kit of the Phantom I crew chiefed on in 1980-81 at Kunsan AB ROK. Low visability markings and Maverick weapons systems were the order of the day. 35TH TFS PACAF, the Wolf Pack. This jet was very dependable and survived the change-over to F-16's in 1981. Probably still flying somewhere.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:59 PM

Chris,

I picked up some raised details from Archer Transfers.  I bought some of their resin panel lines and rivets.  I've never used 'em before, so I'm gonna give 'em a try.  I'll post some pix and let you know what I think. 

Cheers!

-O

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:57 PM

No the F-4J did not have rudder pedals.  You are correct that the throttle and control stick was removed.  The antenna hand control was relocated from the right console to a pedestal between the RIO's knees.  That pedestal is visible in the RCP shot.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Vancouver, WA
Posted by jarhead_50_5.0 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 12:55 PM

I see that everyone is talking about the cockpit installation on here so looks like progress is going well for most.  What I would like to ask is, has anyone worked with the 1/48 Legends F4J cockpit on the Revell/Monogram kits?  It says I have to cut (yes I said cut) the upper half of the fuselage area where the stock cockpit would sit off.  To say the least I'm a little nervous about performing this kind of surgery on my bird.  Any suggestions on how to not screw this up?  The image below is the guide that came with the AM cockpit.

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/Legend 1/48:550:0]

Benny: Did Navy/Marine F4's have rudder pedals in the rear seats? I know the throttles and control stick were removed.  Thanks. 

 

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: uk
Posted by morefirejules08 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 12:52 PM

ortiz: i hope you dont  mind me asking but how are you planning on replacing the raised detail you lost? im building the RoG phantom and i can forsee loosing some raised detail.

 

cheers, chris

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Sunday, January 10, 2010 8:53 AM

kustommodeler1

Here's a tip for everyone not past this stage yet, and I learned this only by building no less than a dozen or more of these over the years- after repeated test fitting and tweaking the shape of the cockpit tub, go ahead and detail the cockpit sides and assemble the fuselage without the cockpit in it. Do not attach the wing assembly at this time though. After the cement has dried, assemble and detail the cockpit, and you can now slip it in from the rear through the opening where the engine exhaust nozzles will be. slide it forward and up into position from underneath where the front landing gear bay will be.

While holding it in proper position, you can use CA, or 5 min epoxy to tack the cockpit into place, as there is room for you finger to hold the rear of the tub in proper position long enough for it to stay while the CA or epoxy sets up. now that it holds itself, you can cement it in permanently. The front of the tub kinda just falls right into place if you have your finger in the right spot while holding it.

I wish I would have thought, and took pictures of this step wile I did it. It works really well. Hope this helps.Smile Burger

Great tip about the R/M Phantoms! If you get around to doing number 12 or 13 sometime (impressive, to say the least) I'd love to see the in-progress pit insertion pics. YesYes

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by simpilot34 on Sunday, January 10, 2010 2:57 AM

First time dry-brushing??!! Well don't worry you nailed it the first time!Yes

Cheers, Lt. Cmdr. Richie "To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving the peace."-George Washington
  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: uk
Posted by morefirejules08 on Saturday, January 9, 2010 4:55 AM

well here is my rendition of the revell cockpit, i dare say its far from perfect but its the first time i've tried things like dry bruhing so im fairly happy with it.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Saturday, January 9, 2010 1:57 AM

Lookin good everyone. I haven't been able to do much to mine this week, as I am at the point now where I need to start priming and painting, and guess where my paint room is.......

 

That's right, the good 'ol outdoors, where it has snowed and wind blowed all week with a high of 4 degF today and a wind chill of -15 below. got the few joints all puttied up.

 

Yeah, oortiz10, and all building the Monogram/Revell birds, the cockpit tub's rear deck does fill that void. A careful hot water bath and selective re-shaping the cockpit tub will bring this and the back seat up into proper position. If you don't, the back seat sits a little too low as well. All I have to do is finish filling the small gap and -walla.. or viola, or vwaalaa or however you spellitDunce

 

Here's a tip for everyone not past this stage yet, and I learned this only by building no less than a dozen or more of these over the years- after repeated test fitting and tweaking the shape of the cockpit tub, go ahead and detail the cockpit sides and assemble the fuselage without the cockpit in it. Do not attach the wing assembly at this time though. After the cement has dried, assemble and detail the cockpit, and you can now slip it in from the rear through the opening where the engine exhaust nozzles will be. slide it forward and up into position from underneath where the front landing gear bay will be.

 

While holding it in proper position, you can use CA, or 5 min epoxy to tack the cockpit into place, as there is room for you finger to hold the rear of the tub in proper position long enough for it to stay while the CA or epoxy sets up. now that it holds itself, you can cement it in permanently. The front of the tub kinda just falls right into place if you have your finger in the right spot while holding it.

 

I wish I would have thought, and took pictures of this step wile I did it. It works really well. Hope this helps.Smile Burger

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Friday, January 8, 2010 10:49 AM

Thunderbolt - you're killing me man! I have soooo many Phantoms in the stash it's not even funny...I want to see if I can find a way to get one into the build order. Would hate to miss out on this GB, especially with me not being able to work Achtraden into the mix (seriously bummed).

Let me see what I can do! Unfortunately for me, the ones that would most likely work with my plan are big - either the Tamiya 1/32 D (with lots of AM) or the Revell 1/32 E (with lots of AM). I think I'm going to need to quit my job...Hmm

  • Member since
    July 2005
  • From: Texas
Posted by painklr on Friday, January 8, 2010 10:29 AM

oortiz10 - Great progress pics.  Your Phantom is coming along GREAT!!!! 

Also, thaks for sharing your technique on filling the gap behind the canopy.  I have a Eurofighter sitting on my bench due to a huge gap behind the canpopy due to a faulty mold pour.  Now I think your idea will help finish her up.  Thanks again.

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Friday, January 8, 2010 7:30 AM

Thunderbolt379

Technical question for those in the know, prompted by the excellent discussion of cockpit painting above...

I used the Gunze paint reference in the kit instructions and backtracked it by comparison charts to Humbrol 147, which equates to FS 36495. It sure looks like the cockpit grey I see in photos but it's a very different number to any I've encountered before. Does anyone have any thoughts on the correct interior colour for a -J in the Vietnam period?

Cheers, Mike/TB379

The correct cockpit colors for all F-4 Phantoms is FS-36231. 

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Friday, January 8, 2010 6:54 AM

Hi Richie! Yep, it's a heck of a read, almost half the book devoted to describing a single operational sortie blow by blow -- breathtaking!

I think I'll go with the paler shade, it'll provide a good contrast on the instruments. I'm going to use Supercsale decals throughout, I have the sheets for stencil data, national insignia and walkways, and it's time to put them into action! The instrument panels on the stencil sheet sure didn't fit Hasegawa's old-tool F-4E, and they'll be only a slightly better fit here, but with the canopy closed no one should be the wiser. I would do a wash, but there is no raised detail whatever, nothing to highlight, just bare boards.

I'm more interested in the exterior finish right now. I'll get fancy with interiors later, in larger scales!

Oh, BTW, I'm looking at VMFA-232, in late Vietnam markings, red tail with the devil logo on the tail as opposed to on the fuselage, as they wore in '73 and later. As a Marine Phantom I'm thinking about an appropriate underwing load, possibly TERs on the inner stations lugging Mk. 82s, with tanks on the outer stations for either a long range strike or an opportunistic support mission with plenty of loiter.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by simpilot34 on Friday, January 8, 2010 6:33 AM

Phantom over Vietnam!!!!!!! lol I have that book at mum and dads!!!! Good Read!!! Thanks for the welcome and hope I can see fit too contribute a build!!! Color wise? I would go with the lighter shade for the office and maybe use the darker shade, if not too drastically contrasting, as a wash maybe?2 cents HTH!

Cheers, Lt. Cmdr. Richie "To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving the peace."-George Washington
  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Friday, January 8, 2010 5:45 AM

Hi Simpilot! Hope you make it aboard, the squadron can always use more pilots!

I've done a little on my Fujimi -J. Here are some of the research sources I'll be using and the decal sheet I'm leaning toward using:

 

And here's a first look at parts, the fairly basic cockpit going together and the wings and droptanks assembled and their joints doctored.

 

Technical question for those in the know, prompted by the excellent discussion of cockpit painting above...

I used the Gunze paint reference in the kit instructions and backtracked it by comparison charts to Humbrol 147, which equates to FS 36495. It sure looks like the cockpit grey I see in photos but it's a very different number to any I've encountered before. Does anyone have any thoughts on the correct interior colour for a -J in the Vietnam period?

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by simpilot34 on Friday, January 8, 2010 12:43 AM

Hello everyone!!! I just want to put a post in to keep track of this build and to say that there is some very very nice work going on!!! I have two 1/72 kits of the Phantom, an old Monogram 1/72 C model, and an ESCI RF. I have other more pressing projects but hope to join in. I build slow but deliberate so if I see I can I will commit. Will be watching!Toast

Cheers, Lt. Cmdr. Richie "To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving the peace."-George Washington
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Friday, January 8, 2010 12:34 AM

Hey Jar,

I'd be happy to tell you what I've done & used.  As far as the painting goes, I only use MM enamels.  I've tried acrylics but I just don't like 'em.  Can't get 'em to work as well as enamels.  I'm sure they work fine and it's all user error, but I'll stick with my enamels.  But I digress...

For the base gray in the 'pit, I used Dark Gull Gray (36231).  The black is Aircraft Interior Black (37031).  I like Interior Black better than plain flat black because it looks more like a very dark gray.  It isn't as stark as black.  The tub & fuse sidewalls are airbrushed gray, and the panels are airbrushed black.  The instruments, and everything else in the 'pits, are brush painted.  For the dry brushing on the instruments, I used Camouflage Gray (36622).  It's still light enough to give good contrast, but it's not as bright as white.  For highlighting the structure & the seat frames, I used old school Testors silver in the little square bottle.  I use that pretty sparingly because I can get parts a bit too bright if too much is used. 

On the pilots, I used Gunship Gray (36118) for the mask  & hose.  The visor & helmet are painted with plain ol' square bottle flat white & flat black.  The gloss comes from some brushed-on Future.  Their seat cushions and flight gear are painted various shades of green, including MM Faded Olive Drab, Olive Drab (34087), Medium Green (34102), & Dark Green (34079), with Dark Tan (30219) for the seat belts.

As far as detailing goes, besides the dry brushing on the instruments and structure, I don't do a whole lot more.  There are no washes on my 'pits.  My builds are always (so far) buttoned up, so little is seen through the canopy anyway.  In my opinion, washes add great depth & detail to builds, but I think too much gets lost in the cockpit...unless you're posing your canopies open.  I'd rather concentrate on the exterior detailing (i.e. paint, decals, weathering; etc). 

Hopefully I answered your questions.  If there's something specific you're curious about, just ask, I'd be happy to answer. 

Thanks for looking, and I hope you're enjoying my build(s)!

Cheers,

-O

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Vancouver, WA
Posted by jarhead_50_5.0 on Friday, January 8, 2010 12:07 AM

O,

After looking at all of the shots of the -111 birds cockpit, can you tell me what type of paints you are using? I see what I think looks like dry-brushing and washes, but I was hoping you could go into a bit more detail about what you have done? 

Thanks,

Jar 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Thursday, January 7, 2010 5:07 PM

O -- great save on those details! Especially the canopy area on the old Monogram. Under the paint you'd never guess it was there. You're cranking these birds out! I only got a start on a teensy OOB cockpit last night.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Between LA and OC, SoCal
Posted by oortiz10 on Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:32 AM

OK gang, I took advantage of a few free evenings I’ve had this past week and got some modeling done.  Not much, but some.

 

Since all three cockpits are pretty much done, I started to glue fuse halves together.  I began with the -111 jet.  It was the one that was missing the cockpit structure.  It was an easy fix once I decided that I wanted to use one single piece, versus two halves like the original molding.  (Thanks for all the suggestions!First I glued a small piece of 90-degree styrene to each fuse half.  This gave me little shelves to rest my replacement “part” on.  Then I cut two scrap rectangles matching the kit’s parts profile and glued ‘em together, then onto the shelves.  The mounting hole for the canopy’s actuator was added too.  Even though I’m building this jet with the covers closed, I’m still gonna add the actuators for visual purposes.

 

Before:

 

After:

 

 

It was mentioned to me that I should paint the pilots “bare hands” because pilots never flew without gloves.  (Thanks for the info Berny!)  I gave it some thought but decided not to because I liked how the bare hands broke up the monochromatic (green) look of the pilot’s uniform.  Who besides the hardest of the hard-cores is going to know anyway?  Maybe he took ‘em off because his hands got sweaty…

 

 

The Sundowner jet is the only one of the three that won’t have the intakes capped off with FOD covers, so since I couldn’t use the resin intakes that were supplied with the kit and my budget doesn’t allow me to buy replacements, I decided to fudge it.  No IPMS judge is ever gonna peer down the intakes with a pen-light, so I didn’t bother with replicating the trunking.  

 

Instead, I thought I’d try a little forced-perspective modeling (Thanks Janne!).  I painted a black spot on the back wall of the intake area then feathered it outward until it faded into the surrounding white.  Hacking up a donated fan face (Thanks Ken!), I glued it over the spot.  

 

 

I haven’t glued the intake sides onto the -111 jet yet, because I wanted to try something a little different.  The intakes are glued onto my -84 jet, but since the -111 intakes won’t have covers, I needed to mask for paint first.  I figured it’d be easier if I did that before gluing the intakes to the fuse.  I dry-fitted the assembly to the fuse to make sure I could do it and still get away with minor/no seams.  It looked good, so I proceeded.  I did some minor assembly of the intake interior and exterior, and finally laid some tape.  Now that the intakes are taped, all I gotta do is glue them on, plug the intakes with some foam or tissue, then spray some paint.

 

 

Then I turned my attention to the Revellogram –J.  The pit was installed and the fuse halves joined.  One thing I noticed was an ugly gap at the back of the cockpit area.  It seems that Revellogram intended the rear deck of the cockpit assembly to fill this void, leaving two small gaps at the edges for the tabs on the canopy to fit in to.  Well, it didn’t work that way for me.  No matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t get my parts to line up the way they were supposed to.

 

 

I knew leaving that huge hole was going to be a little obvious, so I came up with an idea on how to fill it.  

 

First, I took a little Milliput and pushed it into the void.  While it was still really soft, I took my canopy and pressed its tabs into the putty.

 

 

I removed the canopy to allow the Milliput to dry, but once it did, I reinstalled the canopy to begin shaping.

 

Using a bit of tape to hold the canopy in place and protect it, I began to sand the Milliput to match the contour of the spine and canopy.

 

 

After a couple of minutes of careful sanding…SUCCESS!

 

 

 

Now all I gotta do is replace all the raised detail I lost during the process.  Luckily, that won’t be as difficult as it sounds.  

 

I have another free night to model tonight.  Hopefully I’ll have another update soon.  

 

Thanks for looking and please feel free to comment!

 

Cheers,

-O

-It's Omar, but they call me "O".

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 7:30 PM

O- great looking pilots. And fantastic helmet decaling.

Great photo Bushi- looking forward to more.

 

Finished off the crew's 'office' with Eduard 'ZOOM' PE. It's for a F-4E but I hope a F-4EJ isn't too different.

Closed her up:

Only bad thing about the Hasegawa kit is there is an opening in the bottum of the intakes. Using the article in the new FSM as a reference I closed the gap with some sheet stock and putty.

Next problem is the Kai has strengthening strips placed on the radome. Working on finding a good way to stimulate them.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by Dirkpitt289 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 7:30 PM

Thanks Mike, I look forward to it. Like I said in the previous post all I need now are the proper decals for his plane, a little research and away we go. I had also thought about doing a navy Phantom (Love the paint scheme) but I hate painting white. I can never get it to look right.

Dirk

On The Bench:

B-17F "Old 666" [1/72]

JU-52/53 Minesweeper [1/72]

Twin Me 262's [1/72] Nightfighter and Big Cannon

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 5:02 PM

Yo Dirk! Great to have to aboard, guy -- didn't see you come through the recruiting office (the other thread!) so consider your papers processed and you're in the squadron! Report for kitting out and briefing at 09.30 hours...

Order of Battle updating now!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by Dirkpitt289 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 3:43 PM

I'm not seeing my name on the "Order of Battle" list. I thought I had thrown my hat in on the other thread but I guess I didn't/ Silly me.

I will be entering with a 1/72 Hasagawa F4 Bicentennial bird that I hope to build into the aircraft used by Robin Olds.

 

 

Here are the ejection seats I picked up yesterday.

All I need now is the correct decals and I'm off. Anyone know who might make them?Embarrassed

Dirk

On The Bench:

B-17F "Old 666" [1/72]

JU-52/53 Minesweeper [1/72]

Twin Me 262's [1/72] Nightfighter and Big Cannon

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 12:03 PM

Bomber Boy

this is mostly only helpful to you, but, when you build Revell's Phantoms,,,,,it's helpful to dryfit the fuselage and wings,,,,,,,there is a gap between the sides of the fuselage and the top portion,,,it can be pretty large,,,,,,it seems to be on all of them,,,,,the T-birds set, the Blue Angels set, and any individual aircraft releases,,,,so it must be in the molding

what I did is to make spreader bars to go inside, three per fuselage,,,,,,to push the bottom of the fuselage out to make even contact with the wing tops

 

 

hope this shows what can be done with that kit

 

Rex

 

almost gone

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 6:43 AM

oortiz10

 berny13:

...I had the occasion to work on Navy and Marine F-4B/N/and J models...I was certified on all NATO F-4 aircraft as well as USN and Marine Phantoms.  So you might say I know something about every F-4 Phantom built...

 

Well Berny, I hope you don’t mind me asking stupid questions because I’m sure I’ll have a few over the course of this build...
 Again, thanks for looking.  Feel free to comment.  Stay tuned for part three!
 
 

I will be happy to help with any question you might have.  OBTW, put some gloves on the pilot.  They NEVER flew without gloves.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 1:30 AM

Great work, KM! You're pumping that build through! I've barely cut sprue yet!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

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