IDF Group Build Mk. II 2010-2011

Hi guys,

I'd appreciate your thoughts... remember the Merkava II I started for IDF 1? That model is still languishing and the main reason lately is the paint. I mixed the paint recommendation in the kit and it is nothing like the shades the IDF Modeler website recommends these days. The problem is, it's virtually finished, full wash and weather is done, running gear and skirts are mounted, detail painting is mostly complete -- and I have an issue with going back and redoing all that.

The shade as mixed has a green element, and I've recently seen a Merk finished in a Tamiya aerosol colour with a similar green cast. Was there ever an Israeli paint that had a green tint?

The model is at the stage of needing its external fittings, decals and dust to be done, and it would be great to have it finished, but will it stick out like a sore thumb on the shelf? Has anybody else been in this situation?

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Hi Mike ;

One of my Israeli reference books ," Israeli Military Vehicles 1948-1998 by John Myszka , has an interesting couple of page's on the vehicle colour schemes ...

This little excerpt is quite interesting ...

There does appear to be variations in the color schemes depending on the time of the year and location .

I hope this helps a little .

John .

BTW , I won a 1/72 Esci Merkava II off ebay a couple of weeks ago , from a seller here in Australia . I'm a little concerned it hasn't arrived yet ; might be time for a ebay email kindly reminder .

I forgot to add that the 1/72 Revell Merkava III in my stash , where the painting instructions list the two colours of ;

Revell 39 Dark Green 25% with Revell 89 Beige 75%

I'll have a go at mixing this combination and do a test spray and see how it looks

John

John -- many thanks for this very informative text! So, it's not my eyes going funny after all, they really are an infinite variety of shades! Phew...! Well, given that some units adopted a green hue at times of the year when there was vegaetation around, I might let the colour stand. That explains why some folks do have that green tinge in their finish, and it's not just an assumption on the part of kit companies that tanks must be green!

Right, I feel confident to go on and complete the Merkava. Big thanks for getting this project un-stuck!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Happy to help Mike .

I must saytrying to match the IDF Colours on their Armour can be really frustrating especially given the number of reference books I have and a lot of the really good in-action photo's are in B&W ...Arghhhhh.

Anyway heres a pic from the IDF Armoured Corps Museum at Latrun of a merkava I

My eye's tell me there is definitly a green shade to the colour

Of late I've been looking at info on the IDF Centurion and I was gearing up to kit bash one of the six Airfix 1/76 Centurion kits in my stash to a Mk 3 or 5 version and here are three pic's from the same book as the Merkava

I still haven't figured out what shade I will go with ???

John .

Fascinating, John! Thanks for these shots! Well, the Centurians at the bottom of the last page look pretty much like the colour on my Merk II, and it is a confounding shade, the eye fluctuates between green, tan and grey at will, as if the brain is feeding in different lighting conditions! I guess that makes it excellent camoflage!

The OT-62 is interesting, it sounds like an amphibious APC built on the running gear of a T-62 (though those wheel hubs look more like a PT-76...) Conversion possibilities!

M/TB379

Thunderbolt379

Fascinating, John! Thanks for these shots! Well, the Centurians at the bottom of the last page look pretty much like the colour on my Merk II, and it is a confounding shade, the eye fluctuates between green, tan and grey at will, as if the brain is feeding in different lighting conditions! I guess that makes it excellent camoflage!

The OT-62 is interesting, it sounds like an amphibious APC built on the running gear of a T-62 (though those wheel hubs look more like a PT-76...) Conversion possibilities!

M/TB379

So the lesson learned here is....

You can't be wrong with whatever shade you choose. Or you can never be right, I haven't quite decided yet!

GRIN -- I think you can be right so long as your shade matches something in the real world, though information can never be specific enough to demonstrate conclusively that you're wrong... Which is a handy loophole!

M/TB379

Just as well I held off sending an ebay email reminder the 1/72 Esci Merkava II just arrived at the front door

I now have all three versions , so I'll have to get stuck-in and finish the current on-going IDF armour builds and get a Merkava started .

John .

Well this paint experiment was quite interesting

I mentioned earlier about Revells instructions listing their own brand of paints for the Merkava III as 39 Dark Green 25% + 89 Beige 75%

Going through all my paint colour reference sheets , you can't alway's get a direct match from Revell to Tamiya or Gunze but by matching Revell to Humbrol and  Humbrol to Tamiya , I came up with Tamiya XF-58 Olive Green  25% + XF-49 Khaki 75% and did a test spray on both the Revell Merkava III (tan plastic) and the Esci Merkava II ( dark gray plastic)

Even with the different coloured plastic there doesn't seem to be any difference and here's a shot outside in the sun

The colour scheme is quite definitly a light olive green and with weather powders and wash's added I'm sure the colour would lighten some more

I'm not sure how this compare's to your build Mike , I could even add more XF-49 Khaki if I think I needed more of a brownish hue ???

John .

John -- many thanks for doing that test shot! If I remember correctly, the Academy instructions suggested a mix of three shades, XF-49 was one of them, another was either buff or dark yellow, and there was a small percentage of one of the Tamiya greens. I can't find the kit plans at the moment but the exact mix would be somewhere in the IDF 1 thread... It looks good but strikes me as too green and too dark, especially for so small a scale where the effect of 'scale colour' comes in.

Here's the Academy Merk II as she stands:

And a closeup:

She looks lighter and sandier in the closeup, but that's just a trick of the angular square law of the propagation of light (!) The shade as recommended was an almost exact match for the plastic the kit was blown in -- note I missed the bottom of the turret traverse area, and it's pretty close.

The more research we do on this topic the more I'm thinking this shade is probably pretty close to actual paints worn by actual IDF vehicles. Whether Merk IIs really wore this shade in the 1980s may be a moot point, but it's at least in the ballpark and Revell, Esci and Academy must be getting their research data from somewehere. I have a profile painting of a Merk in this shade in an old volume, circa 1984, so it was certainly a shade that stuck in the literature.

Cheers,

Mike/TB379

PS: I have no clue what shade of green the canvas weather shields should be on the main gun and mortar mount... Any ideas?

The colour on your Merk II looks spot on to me Mike and the wash and weathering is great also

As for the canvas weather shields , Italeri's Merk I and Esci's Merk II instructions list Olive Drab as the colour ; Revell suggest Khaki for the Merk III ?

I'm going to have a look around the net for some reference books on the Merkava Tank , I'm alway's looking to add to my book collection library

John .

Thanks, John -- in that case I'll press on and get her done. I need to remask and spray some more hull colour on a few bits of the MG ammo trays/boxes, add the MGs, decals and radio masts, give her the dust treatment and she's done. Better late than never!

M/TB379

Most of my IDF kit stash is 1/72 scale , although I do have a small number of 1/35 IDF Armour kits including the Italeri 1/35 M32 Recovery Tank .

Italeri's kit has the large front hatches which from what I've lernt so far is incorrect for an early IDF M32 ;

Last night I found this on ebay and bought it ...

It was a little expensive $40 including shipping but I'm happy I can build the Italeri M32 as an IDF machine now .

John .

IDF colors........there's a subject for debate. Like the man said, it's hard to be wrong.

My Merk II, soon to be "finished", I hope. The color definitely looks greenish, but I'm trying to get that. It still lacks the final dusting.

That looks great! I love the "Predator's deadlocks!"

M/TB379

WOW , really nice WIP on your Merkava II RBaer

John .

I probably shouldn't start another build while there are so many incomplete ones on and under the bench but with the amazing work you guy's have been doing on those 1/35 Merkava's and after looking at a few pic's on the net , I decided what the heck , if I stay away from ebay long enough I should be able to put one of my 1/72 Merkava's together in no time flat ....Not that there is any hurry ;

Italeri's Merkava I looks straight forward enough and I may as well start with the first version and aim for something like the front cover of Steven J. Zaloga "Israeli Tanks and Combat vehicles" 1983 .

I thought I would try a mix of Tamiya Acrylic 50% XF-20 Medium Grey + 50% XF-57 Buff for a 1982 Israeli Sand Grey colour scheme

As usual the flash from the camera tends to make the colour look lighter than it really is .

I started with glueing the hull sides to the bottom piece and then airbrushed the wheels and bogies with my sand grey mix .

Next I glued the turret halves together and puttied the join underneath trim a few more parts from the sprue and airbrushed those , I then masked the wheel hubs with blu-tac and gave the wheels a few coats of flat black along with the tracks and once dry I added a little black enamel wash to the wheels , bogies and lower hull section

Next I'll fit the bogies and wheels in place on the lower hull and then start fitting the tracks , so hopfully this time tomorrow I'll have her standing up .

A fun quick build so far and there is lots of nice molded on detail to the hull and turret top pieces , so it should look good with some wash and weathering powders .

John .

You're a buildin' machine, John! Darn, now you have me thinking about a quickie build as well... Tamiya's Merk 1 has been in my stash for many years, it would look great in Lebanon-era camo... I wonder if anyone makes any detail-up sets for it, like grills...

M/TB379

I got the tracks fitted to the Merkava I

Added some wash to the upper hull and turret and first thing tomorrow I'll give everything a light dusting of the Sand Grey paint mix , then add the machine guns , a couple of decals and finish with a few light coats of clear flat .

BTW , A couple more nice Katyusha kits arrived today . I'll make them as abandoned Egyptian vehicles , perhaps even one under tow from a IDF Halftrack .

John .

Looking great! The tracks built up fine -- I guess I need a good L&L experience to get me into that kind, but it has yet to happen...

I checked my stash fpr which case the Tam Merk 1 is in, and located the Eduard PE set for it at Lucky Model, postage free... I'm weakening, guys, I'm weakening...

M/TB379

The tracks did fit together quite well , without any issue's .

Unfortunatly their smooth on the inside face , no detail . Which makes them look a little  toy like .

I was looking at the Esci Merkava II kit and it's identical to italeri's merkava I kit , except for different side skirts and some extra added on armour pieces .

So while I'm at it I may as well do the Merk-2 as well .

Mike if I could ask a small favour of you and list those Tamiya colours you used on your Merkava II build .

I like that slight greenish tint to the finish , which is what I would like to do as well .

TIA

John

John -- no probs, I managed to find the original post way back in the first thread, and it's a good job I did because it turns out I modified the recommended mix from the Academy plans. I used:

80% Buff (XF-57) 10% Dark Grey (XF-63) and 10% Green (not sure which one... Probably XF-26). But this was way too dark against photos so I experimented with lightening it, ending up with a 25% addition of White (XF-2) to the above mix.

Looking forward to seeing how that formula repeats!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Thank you kindly Mike , for posting those paint colours and ratios .

I didn't have the Tamiya XF-63 or XF-26 in my stock ; I have just about every other colour expect those two and the LHS was out of stock on them as well . So I went to the paint reference charts and found what was similar in the Gunze range and came up with 80% Sand/Yellow H-313  + 10% Gunship Gray H- 305 + 10% Green H-303 with another 25% H-1 White . I kept the same paint mix ratio and gave the Merk 2 a few coats

It's not too bad and even closely matches Esci's box art . I could lightly overspray a couple of coats without the green added but I think it looks okay . It has a nice comparison sitting next to Merk 1

No decals on Merk 1 as yet hopfully tomorrow and I decided to put together Revells Merkava 3 as well .

Revells Merk 3 is a lot more detailed than the first two builds and Revell include those little balls and chain hanging from the rear turret and the turret hatches can be posed open as well . I have some white metal tank figures I'm thinking of using too . Much nicer tracks as well .

I have no idea what paint mix to do for the Merkava 3 ? ; Do you guy's have any suggestions !

It's all been good fun so far with the builds . Perhaps by early next week I'll have three IDF tanks to add to the display cabinet .

John .

You're very welcome, John, and that shade looks excellent on the Merk II! I look forward to seeing it completed. For paint on the Merk III my gut would be to go with a straight post-Lebanon buff/grey mix, but further research may show up variations once again...

Building small scale does have its advantages -- storage space and build time are both brought right down!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Well this was a nice suprise , a parcel arrived sometime yesterday and I forgot to check the front porch untill this morning and this book had arrived ;

I went straight to the Merkava chapter and there are tons of glossy colour photo's of the Merk 3 and the colour scheme is quite interesting ;

I then went and checked the IDF Modelling web site at the Vehicle Models and saw a finished Merk 3 by Yoav Efraiti ...

http://idfmodelling.free.fr/kit_merkava3_13.html

This amazing modeller even list what he describes as the accurate paint colours for the Merk 3 ;

Testors / Model Master                      

6 X FS. 30277

3 X FS. 30118

1 X FS. 36118

I matched these to Tamiya acrylics 6x XF-49 Khaki , 3x XF-52 Flat Earth , 1x XF-24 Dark Grey ; Then I gave a few of the Revell Merk 3 sub-assemblies a few coats .

The camera flash tends to lighten everything ,

When I compare the upper hull to pic's of the Merkava 3 in the IDF Armoured vehicles book it is quite close .

A very earthy / dark olive / greyish colour ;

What do you guy's think !

John .

Looks darn close to me, John, certainly darn close to what's in the photos in that fantastic book! I must make a note of those ratios as I have no doubt I'll press on to a Merk III as well!

Speaking of things Merkava, I'm working on the fittings for the Merk II, and just mixed and sprayed some more hull colour (a bit dark by comparison as of course the rest of the tank has a fade coat from ages ago. But it should be okay -- gun mount parts and shovel retainer, tow cable ends, things like that, and I zapped the area in the base of the turret traverse that I missed last time. as a shaded area that may well appear darker anyway.

Progress pics when I have something to show, which should hopefully be MGs on and decals getting underway.

Am weakening re the Tamiya Merk I, I almost clicked to buy the PE set earlier...

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Hi guys,

WIP update on the Merk II, I got some good progress done today. The mantlet canvas was repainted in olive drab and drybrushed, as was that surrounding the mortar. The sighting optics were painted into dark blue and Futured. The three MGs were completed last night and mounted today. Hand latches were added to the rear hatches, and the folded canvas thingy mounted on the rear hull. The whole tank received its bare metal drybrushing on edges, then I set off to do the decals.

Well... Academy decals, what can I say that hasn't already been said? The ones in the Isherman kit were a lump better than these. The first thing I noticed was that the sheet, while well-printed, had no carrier film -- de nada. I brushed on Microscale Liquid Decal Film, which I expected to solve the problem, but only one decal, the left rear serial, worked as intended. The next two I attempted disintegrated despite Microscale's best efforts, so I am officially looking for markings. The Verlinden rubdown sheet does not include chevrons, and while I could paint those with stencils, there are no other markings on the sheet that look much like the tactical stuff on this beast.

Here she is so far:

She's close -- radio masts, dust, that's about it. But the question of markings remains. Isradecal have Merk II sets but it'll be a cold day in hell I pay that kind of price. Bison have several sheets for Merks III and IV which are a great price from Lucky Model, but nothing for Merk IIs. Anybody got any ideas?

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Mike , that's a real bummer regarding the Merk 2 decals

I saw a set of 1/35 Isradecal  Merkava II markings on ebay and they were going for $30 ...Quite expensive

My only thoughts so far are , if another modeller somewhere has the same Academy sheet and they scan it and send it to you . You could reprint it on some inkjet white decal paper and spray some decal bonder over the sheet and go from there . You probably already thought of this anyway .

I certainly hate it when we get to the 11th hour and the decals dont work out !

As for me , steady progress on the three 1/72 Merkava's ;

Still no decals applied to the first or now second Merk , I'm concentrating on getting all three built and then I'll do the markings but everything is going along nicely .

I'll start glueing the tracks in place on the Merk 3 first thing tomorrow and then I'll work on the upper hull and add the bits and pieces . One of my tank crew figures is holding some binoculars in their hand but I'm not sure which hatch opening to place him , left or right side ?

Sorry I couldn't be much help with the decals Mike , I do hope you can sort something out .

John 

John -- your miniature brigade is looking great! My impression is the binocs should be in the commander's hand, and the commander's hatch is the right hand one on the Merk.

Yep, not sure what to do about the markings. I could have a custom set made by an outfit with an Alps printer, but that would cost as much or more than the Isradecal set. I have no idea why they are so expensive! I'll fish out the Tamiya Merk I, there may be some items I could draft over...

Today I was working all day, so tomorrow I'll loook at the radio masts and fitting the Eureka XXL AM tow cables. I already painted the ends in hull colour, the woven copper cable will go into metallic and be shaped to the guide hooks...

Cheers, Mike/TB379