Mighty 8th GB 1-Nov-2010 - 31-Oct-2011

I know it can be awkward to show certain details in photos.  My photography isn't that good anyway, even worse when i am trying to show somthing that doesn't show well in photos. Hopefully the better light will help.

The Lib and the Stang are looking great. awesome work guys

Finally on her feet after a 3:00 AM session.

jbrady

I need some opinions In this photo

does it look to anyone else as if the exhaust staining was scrubbed away from the nose art for the photo? The area under the kill markings is very dark and looks consistant with exhaust but the figure is clean.

I know I'm a bit late to the party (don't get all that much computer time during the weekends - more than five minutes and either the wife or kids are on me...it's like they can tell...), but it looks to me like the dark area is actually the crewman's shadow. If you look at his right hand and arm, you can see a similar dark area just to the left. 

I think you might have a point there Doogs. The left part of the dark area goes up towards is hand, but theres a light part underneath it. I think its hard to tell either way,

Either way... I still have to figure out how to do exhaust staining. At this point exhaust and gunfire staining scare the hell out of me. I mean I'm almost there and I don't want to blow it at this point. I saw something on the Promodeler site... lots of pressure lots of thinner and a little flat black paint. Aim at a point in front of the wing guns and flick the paint stream on to the wing... maybe I'll give that a go.

I have started useing Tamiya Smoke, can't recall if its X-19 or XF-19. easy to control, can build it up till you have it how you want it. Black is to dense for exhausts.

And without noticeing this sneaked in as my 2,000th post.

I have to echo Bish. Tamiya Smoke is the way to go, at least as your base. I usually do it pretty thin (at least 3:1 thinner to paint), and cut the PSI way back to around 5-10. 

If you want it darker or browner or whatnot, go over the smoke with pastels or pigments.

Here was my first attempt with just Tamiya Smoke:

And here's a more recent one...Smoke + some brown and black pigment...

I'm so bad at thinning paint its not even funny.  Everytime I've been spraying lately I've been having to wipe the paint off and try it again.  I finally got a semi good coat of yellow on the nose and rudder of the P-51, but I still have some skills to learn.  Its not helping that I've been spraing limited coverage colors like red, yellow, and white either.  We'll see how tomorrow's session goes....

redraider56

I'm so bad at thinning paint its not even funny.  Everytime I've been spraying lately I've been having to wipe the paint off and try it again.  I finally got a semi good coat of yellow on the nose and rudder of the P-51, but I still have some skills to learn.  Its not helping that I've been spraing limited coverage colors like red, yellow, and white either.  We'll see how tomorrow's session goes....

I know the feeling! 

Questions. What kind of paint are you using? What thinner? What are you using as a primer coat for the yellow? And lastly, airbrush type/nozzle size?

One thing I found when I was doing my yellow-wing Wildcats was that, with yellow, the two biggest keys are 1) a uniform base coat and 2) a big nozzle. Every yellow I've used - Tamiya, Model Master, Vallejo, and Gunze - has been pretty unforgiving. If your spraying isn't completely uniform, it shows. I had a bear of a time trying to paint those yellow wings with my Iwata HP-C+, but my old Paasche H got the job done pretty well. Nowadays I don't spray yellow with anything less than a 0.5mm tip. 

I've been using white as a base for yellows and reds, but I'm itching to try silver and see how it does.

RedRaider: I've got to agree with Doogs the key is uniformity and a solid even primer for yellow and red.

Doogs: I like the Mustang and is that a Lovochkin? The Soviets sure had different design philosophies. For the staining I'm going to try a very thin dark grey. I don't use acrylics except for washes and have a very limited supply on hand. None of them are Tamiya. I've read that they can be tricky to spray... I kind of like the idea of short drying times though. Using enamels it seems that every paint session is 15 to 30 minutes of painting and 24 hours of waiting.

I use a Paasche H with Model Master enamels.  I used the H5 tip today when I shot the yellow.  I have been using a gray primer, but I think its mostly my lack of experience that is the problem.  One of these days I just need to set aside a day to work with the airbrush and be able to tweak everything and what not and learn the tips and tricks and become familiar with it, but I got back to college this weekend for spring smester so I'm gonna have to wait til spring break or summer to do that.

  Like I said the yellow is ok so far and I'll shoot another coat tomorrow and see if everything goes good

jbrady

Doogs: I like the Mustang and is that a Lovochkin? The Soviets sure had different design philosophies. For the staining I'm going to try a very thin dark grey. I don't use acrylics except for washes and have a very limited supply on hand. None of them are Tamiya. I've read that they can be tricky to spray... I kind of like the idea of short drying times though. Using enamels it seems that every paint session is 15 to 30 minutes of painting and 24 hours of waiting.

Yep, it's Zvezda's La-5. Wonderful kit. It's definitely a challenge, but if you take it slow, do a lot of test fitting, it goes together perfectly. Best fit of anything I've built that hasn't been a Tamiya.

I hear you on acrylics. I usually find they're more trouble than they're worth. BUT...thinned with a quality lacquer thinner, Tamiya's paints are amazing things. Minimal tip dry, spray beautifully, and you can clean up with Windex. I usually thin Smoke down pretty well before I use it, so tip dry and those problems are never an issue.

In terms of non-acrylic substitutes, I think Gunze makes a smoke-like paint? And Alclad has a translucent-ish smoke shade as well. I think I might have even picked a bottle up. Haven't tried it yet, though.

Red I'm with you when it comes to thinning small amounts of paint. The only thing i can suggest is to have a piece of scrape plastic to hand and test spray on that first.

jbrady Like you i mainly use Enamels, xtracolor, the long drying times don't worry me as i use that time to do other things, usually the base board, figures etc. ut i also have a large selection of tamiya Acrylics. Once you know how to thin them and use them, i don't find them any harder to use than any other paints. They do have a quick drying time to touch, but i find that if you want to mask, they still need to be left at least 24 hours, if not longer. But they are alot easier to clean up and safer to use. I would deffinatly recomend them.

redraider56

checkmateking02:

redraider:  congratulations on wiring that engine; it's why I stick to 1:72 to avoid that kind of thing; my eyes would cross and my head would ache; on another note, do you attend college in state (Wisconsin)?  I attended UW-Whitewater (Go Warhawks) and Concordia University--Wisconsin (Go Falcons). 

 

Yup, I go to St. Norbert College in De Pere

Good for you!  That's near Green Bay, so I imagnine the Packer fans will be in high form around the area.

O yea, we're only 5 miles from Lambeau Field so there are ALOT of Packer fans....I even wne toto my first regular season  this year.  You wouldnt believe the number of bears fans that go to college here tho.....it should be interesting sunday during the game

This P 51 B was flown out of Debden by Capt Nicholas Megura. "Ill Wind?" was lost May 9th 1944 flown by Capt Vincent Burroughs. Megura was downed by a P-38 (not so friendly fire) on May 22, 1944 while flying QP-F. He was interned in Sweden and returned to Debden on either June 9 or June 28 (sources cite both dates). Because of the rules of internment, Megura was not allowed to return to combat.

Got to get a better lighting setup. The flash washed out the color quite a bit. Thanks for all the help.

Bish I'm going to work on a couple of other GB's for a while but I'd like to add a "Heavy" to this build. I'll let you know what group, squadron, and station when I get started

That is a real beut J. The white stripes, now what was all the fuse about. The chipping looks very nice.  Thank you very miuch for adding a great looking plane to this build, and thanks for the history as well. I never knew that interned air crew could be returned home. I assumed they had to stay in the country of interment until the war ended.

I will use the first pic as soon as i get a good enough connection. Feel free to come back when ever you fancy. After this can't wait to see what you do with a heavy.

Bish: Rules of internment varied from country to country. I guess it depended on where their loyalties were. Sweden facilitated the return of allied personal through diplomatic channels. If you went down in Switzerland you were stuck there for the duration Spain would hold allied personal but looked the other way for Axis personal. According to international law, however, personal that were interned were prohibited from returning to combat regardless of whether or not they returned to their respective forces.

That makes sense. Switzerland has always been neutral so i assume they held on to Germans who ended up there as well. Spain was facist and had been helped by Germany in the civil war, so that makes sense. I guess the Swedes would have returned any germans who landed there as well, after all they were selling Ore to Germany.

I guess being returned home you could still contribute to the war even if you couldn't return to combat.

jbrady - so happy that you stuck with the 'Stang - it came out very well. I really dig the wear and tear along the lower cowl and by the wing root!

For lighting, I use actual lights...I've tried flashes (on camera, remote, bounces...) and can't seem to get the look or consistency I want. 

I've added some slightly better photo lights more recently, but for a good while my lighting rig was two $5 clip-on work lights clipped on to whatever came to hand. Duct tape, mini-sledge...

Jbrady- I agree with Doogs, I'm glad you stuck around.....that P-51 is a beauty

Redraider: Thanks I just went a little nuts at some point. Unless you knew where to look you'd never know that the model spent two weeks sticking out of the sheet rock in my work room... took me that long to find all of the pieces that flew off.

Doogs: I'm still getting used to digital cameras. Got the color balance set for tungsten... work lights, normal lamps,and incandescents... still trying to figure out how to balance a fill flash that wont wash out colors. Happened on the Thunderbolt also.

Wee trick that helps me when i can be bothered. Get some stockings (you know the kind old ladies wear to hide the leg wrinkles) and stretch a single layer over the flash. Softens the flash ALOT. Only problem is you get a slight yellow tinge to it.

jbrady

Bish: Rules of internment varied from country to country. I guess it depended on where their loyalties were. Sweden facilitated the return of allied personal through diplomatic channels. If you went down in Switzerland you were stuck there for the duration Spain would hold allied personal but looked the other way for Axis personal. According to international law, however, personal that were interned were prohibited from returning to combat regardless of whether or not they returned to their respective forces.

As a side note, Chuck Yeager was the first allied pilot that was allowed to return to flying in combat over Europe after being shot down over France (I believe) and making his way to Spain with the help of the French Resistance.....and he was in the 8th AF.

Interesting fact bob. I am assuming he wasn't held by the Spanish and so doesn't come under internment rules.

Bish-If memory serves me correct, he was held by the Spanish.  The way I read his (auto)biography-Yeager-once you made it into Spain you were taken into custody but then 'released' to go back to England.  I'm sure that I'm missing a lot of details-it was a library book so I don't have it handy. 

Yeager so wanted to get back into action that he petitioned Gen. Eisenhower to let him stay in Europe making the argument that it was after D-Day and the French forces that assisted in his trek to Spain were now free with the Allies controlling the area.

hmmm....might have to pick up a P-51B kit and change my build.....or not.

Right, so he sort of got off on a technicalaty.

When you said he was the first Allied pilot to return to combat after coming down in Ffrance, was that meant to read US. Surely British pilots had been returned before then, or had they not returned to combat.

Regarding the British pilots-dunno....the thought was that there was too much risk to allow a pilot to return to action over Axis territory-if a pilot were forced down again in Axis territory and captured, he might reveal the French Resistance resources that helped him to Spain the first time.  Seems that the Germans had good records of who was forced to bail out over enemy territory.

Another good book to read about the air war over Europe is Masters of the Air by Donald Miller. 

http://www.amazon.com/Masters-Air-Americas-Against-Germany/dp/0743235444

AWWWWWW good point, hadn't thought of that. Makes alot of sense.