Mighty 8th GB 1-Nov-2010 - 31-Oct-2011

Thanks for that article. I see the point there about lightening some areas, but not just the centre of panels. I am still getting to grips with weatheirng aircraft. I am happy with my exhaust staining and doing the panel lines, but still need to work and a bit more wear on the aircraft. That article is going to help.

That's a pretty good article, especially the part about fading overall, not just in the center of panels.  None of the old finishes on airplanes I've been around looked like that.  The fading goes across panels and color demarcations.  Makes it more difficult to achieve, at least it does for me.  Also, areas that get direct sunlight fade more than vertical or underneath areas.

This is what I was afraid of...

Oon the up side is the fact that I realized that I was missing on very important step...GLOSS COAT. I think htat's why I'm having so much trouble getting the wash to come up.

Here's a great article on weathering aircraft - I've taken several ideas out of this (namely weathering's non-uniform nature) and combined it with techniques I've read elsewhere...but definitely worth checking out. I can only hope of building a P-47 as cool as the one shown off, too.

http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=29

Bish

Doogs Ye, i guess thats the same stuff. Of course, warmer months of the kind you mean are not really a problem over here. I have also used it on armour builds and just need to learn how to get a nice feathered edge with it.

jbrady I have taken to useing Pro Moderler weathering wash. I apply it after the Matt finish and the once try a damp cotton bud takes up any access. I find this darkens up the edge of the panels enough. I don't really get this idea of haveing panels lighter in  the middle than at the edge. I don't see how it would happen on a real plane, so why do it on a model.

I've got a bottle of ProModeller's Dark Dirt wash and definitely make use of it. It's clay-based, so you can go back and clean things up until you put a clear coat over it.

As far as lightening the panels - personally I see it as an alternative to preshading, especially with darker colors. I'm coming around more and more to the idea that solid weathering - even on well-maintained aircraft - is all about creating tonal variation without making it look like you just botched the paint job. 

For me, that's why I like the lighten/blend method. It's great for introducing fading and color variations, and with the blend coat, you can control how obvious or subtle it is. Like anything else, I think it can be overdone (just like ink black panel lines), but kept subtle, it adds character to a swath of olive drab. I'm still trying to figure it out with camoflage - I've used it with both topside colors on this P-47, but I think I might have made it too subtle...of course, I try to save the bulk of weathering until after the decals go on, so hope's not lost yet!

jbrady

I wanted to try lightening up the center of panels but I don't think I have enough control of my airbrush... it's a single action Badger 200 detailing brush and I just can't get the nerve to try to go over a paint finish that I think is pretty good. I'm sure that all I'll do is make a mess at this point.

The beauty of the lightening + blending approach is that you can blend it back to a uniform color if you want. I usually go with three coats...blends things pretty well, but keeps enough tonal variety to keep things interesting. Five light coats would probably knock it down to all-but-unnoticeable. 

Doogs Ye, i guess thats the same stuff. Of course, warmer months of the kind you mean are not really a problem over here. I have also used it on armour builds and just need to learn how to get a nice feathered edge with it.

jbrady I have taken to useing Pro Moderler weathering wash. I apply it after the Matt finish and the once try a damp cotton bud takes up any access. I find this darkens up the edge of the panels enough. I don't really get this idea of haveing panels lighter in  the middle than at the edge. I don't see how it would happen on a real plane, so why do it on a model.

Thanks for the tips. They are well appreciated. I wanted to try lightening up the center of panels but I don't think I have enough control of my airbrush... it's a single action Badger 200 detailing brush and I just can't get the nerve to try to go over a paint finish that I think is pretty good. I'm sure that all I'll do is make a mess at this point.

I like the dauntless. I'm going to be tackling that soon as part of a Cactus Airforce series.

jbrady

I hear what you're saying. Problem is I have no idea how to do what you suggest. I'm outlining panel lines right now... I can't get the effect subtle enough. I've been around a lot of airplanes and have never seen the exagerated demarcation between panels some modelers insist on.

I want to try a burnt umber wash over simple #2 graphite panel lines very lightly done... I am getting ready to repaint the whole thing if it all goes bad.

Oh man, I hear you! I've been futzing around with this problem since I came back to modeling this summer. I've been playing around with a lot of techniques and had a lot of failures, but I'm finding that some things work really well together in combination. 

A few of the things I've been doing:

Preshading - Tracing panel lines before airbrushing the main coats. IMO this only works well on lighter colors. And even then I usually end up totally obscuring it. I've only pulled it off once.

Three-layer blend - You can see it a few posts back when I did the ocean gray coat. Basically base coat, lightened coat (base color + 50% white) in panel centers and in random streaks, and a blending coat (25% base color, 75% thinner works well for me) that ties it all back together. I've found this gives a nice variability to the finish.

Post-shading - Very thin paint (I use 10% Tamiya Black/Brown mix, 90% lacquer thinner) tracing panel lines. It's easy to overdo this one, though.

Oil washes - I've been using Winton & Newton artist oils and Mona Lisa Odorless thinner. I've had very good luck with two types of washes. The first is the good old pin wash into the panel lines. The second is a more highly thinned filter wash brushed across entire surfaces. There's a color called Transparent White that does a really subtle streaking/fading effect. 

Clear coats and wet sanding - discovered this on accident when a flat coat nearly ruined my Dauntless. Basically, it goes like this - gloss coat to seal the decals, flat coat on top, then very light wet sanding over that. It strips away or thins down the flat coat so that you get this really nice variability in sheen, which to my eye is pretty similar to the way a lot of actual aircraft appear in the archival photos. Here's how it came out on that Dauntless:

Of course, the same approach nearly ruined my La-5...so proceed with caution...

I hear what you're saying. Problem is I have no idea how to do what you suggest. I'm outlining panel lines right now... I can't get the effect subtle enough. I've been around a lot of airplanes and have never seen the exagerated demarcation between panels some modelers insist on.

I want to try a burnt umber wash over simple #2 graphite panel lines very lightly done... I am getting ready to repaint the whole thing if it all goes bad.

Thanks again, gents! I still have Monogram's decals to worry about, though, so I'm far from out of the woods yet!

Bish - Elmer's makes a white-tac over here...I definitely prefer it to blu-tac since its a lot less stick, but I've also found it's not as malleable, and in the warmer months it has a tendency to stick to surfaces. Not as bad as that play-doh did on my Yak, but frustrating nonetheless.

jbrady - the paint's looking pretty solid from over here! The only thing I'd suggest would be maybe varying it up a bit. The Wolfpack planes were generally kept in good condition, but that doesn't mean a showroom finish. Paints faded against the beating of flight, and the more intense UV at higher altitudes. Touch-ups wouldn't quite match the original finish, etc. From what I've read, a freshly waxed P-47 was about 10 mph faster, but that's not so much about the condition of the paint as the smoothness of the surface. 

Here are a few pics of 56th FG birds that show how battered even well-maintained planes can look. You can definitely see the effects of the waxing, but also the kind of battered and fading paint underneath. 

Thats looking very nice, pity about the dials, but we live and learn.

personally i don't go to over the top with weathering aircraft. Staining and a bit of chipping would be the main thing, plus the panel lines.

DoogsATX: Love that camo. I hope I can do something like that someday.

I got the major painting out of the way last night. Needs touch up and I have to decide how much to ding and weather the airframe. I remember reading in "Thunderbolt" that Johnson's crewchief kept his aircraft in pretty good condition and the few pictures I have don't really help.

I'm not unhappy with the result but I know I have a long way to go to match some of the other work I see here and on other sites. I have to be more careful with small decals. The instrument panel decal disintegrated under Micro Set so I got blank dials.

I just noticed that i had not re done the dates on the GB badge. So i have just put a new one up with the correct dates.

Doogs, looks like your will be the first one up on the front page. Silly putty is hard to get hold of over here, so i use Bostic White Tac, similar to their Blu-Tac but alot easier to work with, but i still learning to work with it and trying to master a feathered edge with it. But then in 72nd scale thats not so much of an issue. You have done a brillant job with that.

Thanks! I used silly putty - stayed FAR away from play-doh this time...

WOW, i love that piant scheme. Deffinatly differant from OD. What did you use to mask.

Got the principal painting on the Jug completed tonight, and finally got to strip off the cowl and rudder masking. The camoflage lines are a bit harder edged than I wanted, but I'll take it.

While I was taking pictures, I also test-fitted a few of the Tamiya blast tubes:

Now that does look nice, and very different. We normally just see the OD top and Grey underside or all over NMF. And going with the NMF underside, good choice.

Bish

Have i got this right, the scheme you are doing has an NMF underside and a grey top side. Thats a bit different, can't say i have seen that before.

The scheme on this one's actually pretty unique. NMF underside and Ocean Gray/Dark Green camo topside, with a red cowl and yellow rudder.

There's actually a lot of debate about whether Schilling's mount was NMF or Neutral Gray on the underside, with the compromise position that the port wing was replaced, and the underside left unpainted. But there's a pic out there somewhere showing the main starboard gear door looking very much like bare metal as well. 

Needless to say, I'm calling the paint version of gizmology on this one, and going with the scheme that looks cooler!

Thats another reason i prefer Alclad, no messing around with those powders.

Have i got this right, the scheme you are doing has an NMF underside and a grey top side. Thats a bit different, can't say i have seen that before.

Mixed it up a bit with the Ocean Gray last night.

Started with the base coat:

Then hit the main panels, some random streaks, etc, with 50/50 Ocean Gray/Flat White:

Then went back with a 75% thinned Ocean Gray to blend things back together:

One problem I've noticed with using Talon acrylic/SnJ enamel and the polishing powders is that the Dremel kicks crap everywhere. I wiped down the upper surfaces before I started painting, but obviously didn't do a great job, as I keep finding little cotton fibers from the polishing wheel stuck to the cowl, or the wing, or what-have-you. 

I think I'll be sticking with Alclad going forward. I like the polishing idea, but it's just too messy!

jbrady

I'm still not crazy about the wash. I left it on for less than five minutes and it was rock hard. I had to soak the parts in universal acryl thinner and scrub like hell to get the parts as light as they are now... maybe sealing the enamel with a dull coat before the wash? I'll have to give that a shot next time.

The wash looks pretty solid from here...maybe a bit heavy but not too bad.

You might want to try a gloss coat instead of a dull coat. Dull coats create a slightly rougher surface, with more little crevices for the wash to bite into. With gloss the wash will run to panel lines and such, and be easier to wipe off of flat surfaces.

I'd also recommend trying some artist oil paints and making a wash out of those. They have a very long drying time so you can keep working with them until you're happy.

Gear thingies weathered and ready for assembly...

I'm still not crazy about the wash. I left it on for less than five minutes and it was rock hard. I had to soak the parts in universal acryl thinner and scrub like hell to get the parts as light as they are now... maybe sealing the enamel with a dull coat before the wash? I'll have to give that a shot next time.

jbrady

How do you get such sharp demarcation lines between the wheel and the hub? I tried to mask but that just made me yell at the dog. What I ended up doing is flowing the tire color to the wheel and then spent an hour on each wheel dry brushing the flange on the wheel.

I use one of those green plastic circle templates that you can buy anywhere. Hold the hub against that and spray. I've only tried it on two kits, but it's worked well. Hard to get a perfect fit with one pair of tires - they had that flat/bulged thing going on - but the bit of overspray was easy to knock out with a detail brush. I use Vallejo Black Grey for tires, and it has amazing coverage properties.

Well i paint my hubs when still of the sprue, assuming they are seperate from the tire. Ifs the hubs and tire are one piece, i paint and weather the hub and then brush paint the tire.

How do you get such sharp demarcation lines between the wheel and the hub? I tried to mask but that just made me yell at the dog. What I ended up doing is flowing the tire color to the wheel and then spent an hour on each wheel dry brushing the flange on the wheel.

except frenesi lol ( i did find out its meant to be pronounced "Free n Easy")

Frenesi P-51D 44-13318 Flown by Maj. Tom Hayes 364FS, 357FG 8AF Hayes flew an early D model without a fin fillet. Serving one tour in the Pacific theater and 2 victories, Hayes was transferred to Yoxford, England in 1944 where he added 9 more victories to his score within a total of 85 missions. He remained in the Air Force after the war and retired as Brigadier General in 1970.

Try this link, its from Little friends. Should have the tail codes for most or every aircraft.

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/357thfg.php

Ok, im doing my bird up as 44-13318 Frenesi from the famous 357th FG not sure of the FS, still doing some research.

I have 4 1/32nd kit, but haven't built any yet, once i get my GB's out the way i might start on one.

A weathering GB, now that will be one to watch for. Migth sure i will be able to take part, but i will deffinatly keep on eye on it. I could do with picking up some tips for aircraft weathering.