The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

I dont know if My pic's or messages are gettin through,are they? Ive got a question can someone help Me with.How can I bend canopy glass (plastic) without cracking it.Ive got a 1/48 scale F-4 Hasagawa and the windscreen plus the part between the two crew stations is under sized to the fusalodge.How can I bend it out to match it properly without breakin the part? 

Son Of Medicine Man

I found one web page that describes washing the resin parts.  On that page it states that you need to use isopropyl alcohol to break the silicon mold release agent loose from the parts before washing them with the soapy water.  And of course I do not have any isopropyl alcohol in the house.  It is too late in the evening to be going out to get some, so I will have to wait and pick some up on the way home from work tomorrow evening.  Another lesson learned.

Ken

Try 1/4 cup of vinegar to a gallon of water and a mild dish washing liquid.  Let them soak for about half an hour and then remove and rinse with water and let air dry.  Works for me every time.    

Rascal 1957

I dont know if My pic's or messages are gettin through,are they? Ive got a question can someone help Me with.How can I bend canopy glass (plastic) without cracking it.Ive got a 1/48 scale F-4 Hasagawa and the windscreen plus the part between the two crew stations is under sized to the fusalodge.How can I bend it out to match it properly without breakin the part? 

Heat the plastic in hot, not boiling, water.  The center bow will be easier to reshape.  Just do a little at a time until it matches the fuselage sides.  Don't over stretch it.  If you think you might be able to bend just a little bit more, stop.  The windshield is going to be harder.  You use the same method and go very slow.   

Great looking progress there El Taino, I like the way its turning out. It appears that we are building the exact same kit and scheme. This should be interesting. Hope mine comes out half as good as your is looking. What was the exact blue you used.

Steve

sidure

Great looking progress there El Taino, I like the way its turning out. It appears that we are building the exact same kit and scheme. This should be interesting. Hope mine comes out half as good as your is looking. What was the exact blue you used.

Steve

Thanks for looking and commenting Steve, good to hear there is another Warlord in the pipe line. From a previous reply:

OK guys, what do you think? Here is a test with the Poly Scale GN Big Sky Blue F414203 straight from the bottle. It has a coat of Acryl Semi-Gloss Clear which I'll be using to seal the model.

Cheers!

Hi Mike ;

 I'll have to withdraw from your Phantom GB for the time being .

Some family health issue's have come up .

Hopfully I'll catch up with everyone else in the not too distant future .

Kind regards ,

                John .

So sorry to hear this, John, I hope things turn out for the very best. I'll mark you as "temporarily withdrawn" and hope you can make it back to the Rhinos at a later date, there's the rest of the year to go, and I'm sure there'll be a Rhonomania III as well!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Thank you Glenn and Berny on the resin cleaning tips!  That is good information to know.

Well we had company over for dinner this evening and they just left.  In just a few minutes I have to start working on the computer servers at work.  It will take the rest of the evening (hopefully it doesn't turn into an all nighter!).  So I will have to wait until tomorrow to try those cleaning tricks on the resin.  I just checked on the progress of my paint and it was processed through the sort facility at 10:42 AM this morning in Hazelwood, MO.  Kinda a strange that it started out in Liberty, MO, then went to Des Moines, IA, and now it is back in Missouri.  I guess I won't have to worry about mixing the paint when it gets here, it is already getting mixed up! 

Ken

El Taino, that's pretty close. I have Tamiya X-14 Sky Blue and I'm trying to hold it up to the screen without getting glare on the glass bottle. IMHO and as far as I can tell, X-14 seems to be a bit closer to a match with the decals. Maybe with a drop of XF-8 Flat Blue it will match even better.

HTH

somenewguy

El Taino, that's pretty close. I have Tamiya X-14 Sky Blue and I'm trying to hold it up to the screen without getting glare on the glass bottle. IMHO and as far as I can tell, X-14 seems to be a bit closer to a match with the decals. Maybe with a drop of XF-8 Flat Blue it will match even better.

HTH

Hello there mate! I did tried a drop of paint directly on the decal sheet. But as I mentioned before, method of application can make it look slightly different. My suggestion is to give it a try with your AB on a piece of scrap before you attempt any mixing. Chances are that you might get that shade without any mixing. In my case, I tried with the nose cone.

Good luck with you build, have nice day!

Man... I opened up my Eduard FGR.2 PE set today and look a look at it... argh...  I may have gotten in over my head with the PE...  I have never used PE like this before.  I have to modify kit parts, removing sections of them.  Then I have to grind down existing detail pieces.  I am just afraid of messing up a very very expensive kit.  I am not sure even what kind of tool I will need to make cuts that small...  Does anyone have any advice or info that could help?  Or better yet does anyone know of any online tutorials on using PE?  For now I will continue to work on the seats until I figure out what to do about the PE...

Rich

Sorry, Rich, my own experience with photoetch is very limited as yet, and I tend to draw the line at cutting away molded detail to replace it with etch. If the etch parts are designed to smoothly augment the kit, that's one thing, but when they require you to perform surgery during which a slip of the blade could mutilate an expensive patient, that comes under my heading of gilding the lilly... Especially when the existing detail is already just about as good as injection molding can deliver, which is in fact pretty good to anyone with normal eyesight (small joke at my own expense...)

That said, I bow to the etch masters -- if anyone can point us in the right direction, I'm more than interested to know how it's done too!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

I am about to start work on my canopies.  I plan to dip them in Future and use Bare Metal Foil as a mask.  Are there any problems with this combination?

Jim

Buffirn

I am about to start work on my canopies.  I plan to dip them in Future and use Bare Metal Foil as a mask.  Are there any problems with this combination?

Jim

Hey Jim, I can speak for every one but my experience is mixed. Foil is great because you get to see a lot easier the frame and cut accordingly with the exacto knife. On the other hand, when I peel the foil off the canopy, it leaves a residue. It can be fixed applying future on the area with a small brush. My 1st experience was with a B-24 and a couple of builds later I decided to go back to Tamiya Masking tape.

Sparrowhyperion

Man... I opened up my Eduard FGR.2 PE set today and look a look at it... argh...  I may have gotten in over my head with the PE...  I have never used PE like this before.  I have to modify kit parts, removing sections of them.  Then I have to grind down existing detail pieces.  I am just afraid of messing up a very very expensive kit.  I am not sure even what kind of tool I will need to make cuts that small...  Does anyone have any advice or info that could help?  Or better yet does anyone know of any online tutorials on using PE?  For now I will continue to work on the seats until I figure out what to do about the PE...

 

Rich

Rich;

You graduated from Rhino Plasty and now you are talking Rhino Neuro Surgery.

I say go with your gut, maybe practice with the PE on some other kit until you are comfortable with it. I agree with Mike, I don't like cutting off perfectly good IM parts just for the privilege of replacing parts. I don't need lateral moves that take extra time, but I'll use PE if it really adds.

I'm looking at an Acrylic based glue instead of CA, because that sweet cyanide smell of super-glue gives me bronchitis. There's a link here on FSM: New acrylic based super glue ??? under the Tool forum.

I'll be adding to it as I figure the new glue out.

Tx Dominic

Yeh Neuro Surgery.  I was expecting to maybe have to grind off some surface detail, but man, this requires cutting out portions of instrument panels and control clusters to bend and put in the PE parts.  I'm just not sure I can physically do it.  Certainly not by hand.  I think I need to find some kind of stand or rig for my Dremel tool that I can use to make clean cuts with accuracy.  I don't think my Zona saw is going to be much use on parts this size.  I don't mind using CA.  Mostly because with accelerator, I can zap it solid as soon as I have a bead in place and it makes it much easier not having to clamp up every little piece.

I don't have any other kits that use PE right now, and I have never used it this extensively, but I know if I try to paint the details, it will come out like heck.  My hands just aren't steady enough for that level of detail.

Oh well, I suppose I can get the offspring unit to assist the parental unit this weekend.  I'll send up some images as soon as I can get another battery for my camera.  Until, then I will check out that link, thanks. :)

Rich

Bockscar

 

 

 

Rich;

You graduated from Rhino Plasty and now you are talking Rhino Neuro Surgery.

I say go with your gut, maybe practice with the PE on some other kit until you are comfortable with it. I agree with Mike, I don't like cutting off perfectly good IM parts just for the privilege of replacing parts. I don't need lateral moves that take extra time, but I'll use PE if it really adds.

I'm looking at an Acrylic based glue instead of CA, because that sweet cyanide smell of super-glue gives me bronchitis. There's a link here on FSM: New acrylic based super glue ??? under the Tool forum.

I'll be adding to it as I figure the new glue out.

Tx Dominic

Bockscar

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Man... I opened up my Eduard FGR.2 PE set today and look a look at it... argh...  I may have gotten in over my head with the PE...  I have never used PE like this before.  I have to modify kit parts, removing sections of them.  Then I have to grind down existing detail pieces.  I am just afraid of messing up a very very expensive kit.  I am not sure even what kind of tool I will need to make cuts that small...  Does anyone have any advice or info that could help?  Or better yet does anyone know of any online tutorials on using PE?  For now I will continue to work on the seats until I figure out what to do about the PE...

 

Rich

 

 

Rich;

You graduated from Rhino Plasty and now you are talking Rhino Neuro Surgery.

I say go with your gut, maybe practice with the PE on some other kit until you are comfortable with it. I agree with Mike, I don't like cutting off perfectly good IM parts just for the privilege of replacing parts. I don't need lateral moves that take extra time, but I'll use PE if it really adds.

I'm looking at an Acrylic based glue instead of CA, because that sweet cyanide smell of super-glue gives me bronchitis. There's a link here on FSM: New acrylic based super glue ??? under the Tool forum.

I'll be adding to it as I figure the new glue out.

Tx Dominic

Hi Everyone,

The cockpit paint showed up today so I will be trying out my new paint booth this weekend!  And my new air brush.  Like I mentioned before I have experience with painting cars so I think that will help me get up to speed with an air brush in short order.

The cockpit has been washed with alcohol using cotton swabs, then soaked in vinegar and dish soap for a half hour (per Berny's suggestion), scrubed again with cotton swabs (all the while being careful with the intricate detail), rinsed, and now drying on paper towel.  It should be ready to be masked tomorrow and then painted.

Hey Dominic, I looked at that acrylic based super glue.  From the description it sounds like a pretty good product.  I will have to get some and try it out.  I like the idea of having some working time and it sounds like it is really strong.

Have a good evening everyone!

Ken

I didn't get a whole lot of work time in the last few days and what I did mostly was fiddle with the forward fuselage on the "F". The whole thing consists of the two sides and then a flat bottom section that has the wheel well/cockpit attached to it. A test fit had the sides bowed in a bit and didn't fit well. I ended up using a cut sprue rod cemented underneath the cockpit to push the sides out and then many more dry fits with a bit of sanding between each before it was right. Then I found the bottom wouldn't go all the way forward to where it needed to be so it was identify what was holding it out of place, trimming, sanding, test fit, and again over and over. A real PITA all around. A test run with everything held in place with elastic bands showed that they squeezed everything in too much so I need to make sure it all lined up perfectly, since clamping in any way will pull everything out of wack. finally I am satisfied but now a bit of repainting will be needed to cover up damages done during all that, and a spot to fill where I tended to sand away a bit too much. No doubt this build will take me a better part of the year to do......

My poor little 'Geasel' hasn't gotten any attention the last few days.

Sparrowhyperion

Man... I opened up my Eduard FGR.2 PE set today and look a look at it... argh...  I may have gotten in over my head with the PE...  I have never used PE like this before.  I have to modify kit parts, removing sections of them.  Then I have to grind down existing detail pieces.  I am just afraid of messing up a very very expensive kit.  I am not sure even what kind of tool I will need to make cuts that small...  Does anyone have any advice or info that could help?  Or better yet does anyone know of any online tutorials on using PE?  For now I will continue to work on the seats until I figure out what to do about the PE...

 

Rich

The majority of PE pieces I don't use.  If it can make the kit look better than yes, but to replace most items with flat handles or bend very small parts to give it a one dimensional look, I tend to not use them.  I look at the kit part, look at the AM part and determine which way to go.  If the kit part will work and the PE requires shaping into a odd looking contraption then I don't use it.  In my opinion most PE parts really are not necessary to produce a great looking kit.  Ask yourself if it can be seen once the cockpit is closed up?  Does it really make the kit better?  Is it worth taking the chance of removing good detail to add something that may or may not look good after?  Only you can make that decision.  Someone can offer advice but it is up to you to decide to go with or without it. 

I primarily bought the PE kit for the main pilot instrument panel, and side control boards.  The detail on the kit is OK, but there is no way I am going to be able to hand paint it, and there is so much of it that a wash would look nasty.  I think I may have an alternative to cutting off the bit and pieces from the kit parts.  I am going to file them down veyr thin and then use them as a base to put the PE on over like a cap.  I think it will be a lot easier than trying to completely remove sections of kit parts.  The minimal instruction sheet they send with the PE is a joke.. 

Right now I am working on the Revell while I work up the courage to get on with the FGR.2 lol

Rich

berny13

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Man... I opened up my Eduard FGR.2 PE set today and look a look at it... argh...  I may have gotten in over my head with the PE...  I have never used PE like this before.  I have to modify kit parts, removing sections of them.  Then I have to grind down existing detail pieces.  I am just afraid of messing up a very very expensive kit.  I am not sure even what kind of tool I will need to make cuts that small...  Does anyone have any advice or info that could help?  Or better yet does anyone know of any online tutorials on using PE?  For now I will continue to work on the seats until I figure out what to do about the PE...

 

Rich

 

 

The majority of PE pieces I don't use.  If it can make the kit look better than yes, but to replace most items with flat handles or bend very small parts to give it a one dimensional look, I tend to not use them.  I look at the kit part, look at the AM part and determine which way to go.  If the kit part will work and the PE requires shaping into a odd looking contraption then I don't use it.  In my opinion most PE parts really are not necessary to produce a great looking kit.  Ask yourself if it can be seen once the cockpit is closed up?  Does it really make the kit better?  Is it worth taking the chance of removing good detail to add something that may or may not look good after?  Only you can make that decision.  Someone can offer advice but it is up to you to decide to go with or without it. 

No Warlords for me? Darn it! I'm ready for decaling and this is what I get after submerging the 1st decal. That's without even touching it, imagine if I try to slide it out. What I hate about Tamiya is that they want one to fax the 1st page of the instruction sheet and the missing or defective part. I don't have a fax at home and I hate to wait. I know myself, if I have to put this build aside waiting for a decal sheet, months and months can pass by without touching it once I get involved with other builds. Why can't Tamiya make replacement parts as easy as Revell

The few Tamiya kit's I have built so far all seemed tto have kind of chinsy decals.  I usually just get some AM ones when they fall apart.  A lot less hassle than dealing with Tamiya to get a set which will probably do the same thing.

El Taino

No Warlords for me? Darn it! I'm ready for decaling and this is what I get after submerging the 1st decal. That's without even touching it, imagine if I try to slide it out. What I hate about Tamiya is that they want one to fax the 1st page of the instruction sheet and the missing or defective part. I don't have a fax at home and I hate to wait. I know myself, if I have to put this build aside waiting for a decal sheet, months and months can pass by without touching it once I get involved with other builds. Why can't Tamiya make replacement parts as easy as Revell

El Taino, I think I have a way to fix that for you

first step,,,,,,try to order a replacement set,,,,,,while that is "in the process", try this

it could be a bit of work, but, if that is the only marking you have gotten wet, it might be worth the effort

test it on the black part of the A that tore,,,,,,,,wet that part, and as little of the "main part" that didn't move as possible,,,,nudge it back into place with a microbrush or Q-tip,,,,,,,if that worked for you okay,,,,,,then try the same thing on the larger piece, being very sure you don't leave any of it "dry", and do the nudge thing

let the whole thing dry again,,,,,,,,then cover All the decals on the whole sheet with a coat of Microscale or Superscale decal "Liquid Decal Film" or "Superfilm",,,,,they are both the same stuff,,,,,,you can brush it on, it's self leveling if you don't glop it on,,,,,,2 coats if you have to, etc

let that dry,,,,,,then you can either put the decals on as normal,,,,,,,or if you really have to, you can paint the decal film onto wax paper, and slide your reinforced decals onto the film after it dries,,,,,,,,,,I've never had to do that with any of my "blow outs",,,,,,,,,but, I have read about the wax paper step

as light as Tamiya did those markings, you'll never get an Aftermarket sheet that matches your radome, now,,,,,they are just a bit darker on the AM sheets I have, or have seen

give it a try, because you are going to have a lot of waiting time to waste, and you can always use the Superfilm on any other sheet that you think might have "aged out" on you,,,,,,,heck, I have sheets here that I just go ahead and give a coat to, just in case,,,,,some of them are older than my kids, lol (that means over 30)

good luck

Rex

Thanks for looking and commenting Sparrowhyperion.

Howdy Rex, after posting the picture and rant here, I went back to the decal. I did slide one half in place and carefully the other one. Since there was a gap, I tried to move it carefully to match both halves. As careful as I was, it turned into pieces. I inspected the decal sheets included with the kit and they seems very thin. In fact, I had to look very hard to notice a faint clear carrier. In some of the decals they look like they don't have the clear carrier at all. That wasn't my experience with their 1/32 Viper

Your suggestion seems very good, I have available Micro Scale. The only thing is that I lost that side. I will contact Tamiya on Monday, but I would like to know where to get a set of these from some other manufacturer. I build mostly OOB and I'm not that familiar with AM decals. I looked shortly around the web and came across a set. But the blue on it looks from the picture a very deep blue.

yeah, that was my first impression when I saw your Tam decal sheet,,,,,much lighter than I have ever seen it printed for the Warlords before

if you switch decal sheets,,,,,,and it looks like you might have to,,,,,,,you are going to need to repaint some parts,,,,,,,,,that CAM sheet looks like the Blue matches the Insignia Blue on the Insignia

fortunately, Ins Blue is a color that almost every paint company makes

sorry your decal was hurt more than I thought

Rex

Wow, that terrible news about your decals El Taino. I really hope I dont encounter the same problem with mine. Youve got me nervous now, I will test a decal I dont need to see how it reacts and take it from there. I agree with the guys in that its not the worst Ive seen and coating the sheet with decal film is the way to go ad save the rest of the sheet. You may be able to salvage them. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Steve

El Taino, send me your address.  I have the same kit and will not be using the decals as I am going with Showtime 100.  Just remember to treat them before you put them in water.

sorry, I just read your latest post and it looks like that side is a gonner. Considering the work you have done already on the radome and painting the rest of the blue it might be best to wait for replacement parts

Steve

Way to go Bernie, its good that we have this community of builder who help out in times of trouble like this. This is the reason I like these forum with guys who step up to help others.

Steve

PM sent Berny Man! Thanks so much. I will treat the with micro scale solution. I have used it before and it does works. Can't thank you and Rex enough for sharing on this build your knowledge so friendly.