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Way Too Many Props GB April 18, 2011 - Extended to July 28, 2012

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  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Borlando Fla home of the rat
Posted by TREYZX10R on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 4:24 PM

Bish glad to see the B-17 back on the build, it looks great. I've been shooting the contol surfaces white before the top color and it works for me,I know its too late for that on this one but maybe it will be of use in the future. Heres a before and after I did in the Japanese G/B

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 3:36 PM

Thanks guys, i will try these out on a palette, see how they look. Spent all last night working on scratching a MG mount at the front of the nose. Turns out one of the book i have had for ages, Squadrons B-17 in action, has a pic of the nose on ole puss. It has one of those guns fitted, so i decided to scratch it. It's not looking to bad. But i think i will get a couple of vacu form nose cones and replace the kit one at a later date, useing the lesson on the gun mount i have learnt from this.

Some good news, the decals turned up today. ut B-17, think i need a bit more help. As i undestand it, B-17's carried their BG code letter on the tail and on the top of the right wing. The national insignia was carried on the bottom of the right wing and top of the left. But the decal sheet says the national insignia for ole puss should be on top and bottom of the right wing, with no wing BG letter. In fact, none of the 3 aircrfat on the sheet have a 3rd BG letter. I have never seen this before, and as the only pic i could find of ole puss is the nose art, i am not sure how Superscale got this layout for the markings.

Have you seen this before. I do have the other BG letter from the other decal set, so i can use one of those for the wing, but just woundered if this was possable, or totally made up.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Sunday, September 25, 2011 5:32 PM

B17Pilot

 Bish:

I am looking for a bit more help here. I need to fade the control surfaces, but no where near as much as last time. Then, i used white to lighten the OD, but the results were not ver good, the more white i added, the worse it got. Can anyone suggest something else to tone down OD, i was thinking pale yellow? or maybe even another colour to use on those areas.

 

I've heard people use light gray, or light tan but I've never tried this so don't know if'n it'll work.

I have had very good luck fading OD with Tamiya Buff XF-57 heavely thinned and misted on very slowly until I get the effect I want.

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Sunday, September 25, 2011 4:30 PM

Bish

I am looking for a bit more help here. I need to fade the control surfaces, but no where near as much as last time. Then, i used white to lighten the OD, but the results were not ver good, the more white i added, the worse it got. Can anyone suggest something else to tone down OD, i was thinking pale yellow? or maybe even another colour to use on those areas.

I've heard people use light gray, or light tan but I've never tried this so don't know if'n it'll work.

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, September 23, 2011 6:44 PM

Ok, a second attempt at painting the OD. I am much happier this time, and looking at that nose art of ole puss II, it doesn't look very faded anyway.

Going to give the top a coat of future on Monday as its more of a flat finish than gloss. Just ot a few small bits to finish, wheels, undercarrage legs, guns. Then its just a case of waiting until the decals turn up

I am looking for a bit more help here. I need to fade the control surfaces, but no where near as much as last time. Then, i used white to lighten the OD, but the results were not ver good, the more white i added, the worse it got. Can anyone suggest something else to tone down OD, i was thinking pale yellow? or maybe even another colour to use on those areas.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: Buffalo, NY
Posted by macattack80 on Thursday, September 22, 2011 8:33 PM

VanceCrozier

Looking good gang, haven't started my contribution yet (unless you count opening the box, looking, and then telling myself that I have other kits to complete first!!!) but I'm lurking when I can!

Ditto  I have 4 planes, a car and an M40 that I still have to finish before I get going for this GB.  I am moving at the end of October too so I probably wont start on this one until I get settled in.  I will probably go with the B-29 Superfortress instead of the E-2C Hawkeye. 

Nice work so far! Beer

Kevin

[

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Thursday, September 22, 2011 4:53 PM

Looking good gang, haven't started my contribution yet (unless you count opening the box, looking, and then telling myself that I have other kits to complete first!!!) but I'm lurking when I can!

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Thursday, September 22, 2011 1:16 PM

Glad to hear the B-17 is back on! Can't wait to see it!

Don't worry didn't mess me up, I kept the B-17 on the list just in case this very thing happened Wink

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:59 AM

Looking good.

Afraid i am going to mess you about again as it looks like the B-17 is back on track. A couple of weeks ago i got a message on the Mighty 8th GB from Little J telling me about a guy in the USA selling Superscale decals. I had thought they had gone out of buisness as i can't seem to find there decals anywhere. But this guy must have a pile of their old decals including a set for 'ole puss' from the 96th BG. And i know this is a real aircrfat as i have found photos and a bit of back ground on it. I was finally able to order the dacles and got an e-mail on Monday telling me they had been shipped, so they should be here by the end of next week. So the B-24 has gone back in the box. I have re-done the OD on the 17, as i wasn't to happy with it. I am also getting all the little parts finished, undercarrage, gun's etc. So by the time the decals get i, i will just have to add them, flat coat and weathering and add the final parts. I will get some pics up this weekend, and fingurs crossed for the decals.

Sorry for the messing around. If i can i will finish the B-24 next year, but i really doubt i will be able to. But if you do a round 2 in a couple of years, i know what i will be entering for it.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:18 PM

OK, I finnally got to painting my A-20 (other than the multiple sessions of white for the ID stripe, man I hate painting white Angry).  Still need to add the green spots around the tail and wings, but the two main colors are done!  I freehanded the OD, after spraying the gray.  This is the second time around after trying it on a P-38 for Vance's P-38 GB.  Not to bad this time around either.

Top:

Bottom:

Close up of the change:

up next the green, and then its time to beat the plane up, weather wise.

Tags: A-20

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, September 4, 2011 2:07 AM

Ye, i am pretty pee'd off as well. Thats another lesson learnt when it comes to decals. Maybe i can find one with an easy Nose Art, something i might be able to paint on.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Borlando Fla home of the rat
Posted by TREYZX10R on Saturday, September 3, 2011 10:23 PM

Bish thats too bad about the decals on the 17 ,hope you can get it sorted was really enjoying watching the build. I'm sure the 24 will be great fun to watch as well though !

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, September 3, 2011 2:33 PM

Thanks, and ye, i have thought about it. I may have to turn to that to complete some of my Norfolk airfield builds anyway. But just now i don't have the set up for it. But it is one of the things on my to do list.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Saturday, September 3, 2011 2:30 PM

Bish - No problem, got your B-24 on the list. I did leave the B-17 on the list when you come back to it.  Have to thought about making your own decals?

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, September 3, 2011 2:06 PM

Been doing more checking today, even found another site which seems to list every B-17 built by serial number. Once again, mine is not there, and neither is any possible number assuming one of the number on my decals is an error. So to that end, i have decided to put the 17 to one side. Hopefully, i can either confirm the decals are correct, (which i doubt) find the right serial number, of get decals for another 17F of the 96th. And i can try and re-do the paint job at the same time.

But, rather than drop out completely, i would like to change my build to the following

It won't be the one on the box, saveing that for another time. It will be the alternate which is also a lead ship. And i know its real, i have seen photos. Though there may be an issue on one of the colours. Sorry about this, but just don't want to continue with the 17 as is. Its part of a personal long term project and it needs to be a real aircraft.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, September 2, 2011 1:00 PM

No Vance, it is like that. I think if i had not gone so far on the rudder, and done the upper control services as they are, it would not have been quite so far. This was something new for me, and its all a learning curve, and maybe i can tone them down a touch.

And B17, thanks for all your help with this. Hopefully i can have this finished by the end of next week.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Friday, September 2, 2011 9:05 AM

I like it, though i wouldn't go any lighter than it already is.

  

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Friday, September 2, 2011 6:48 AM

Bish

A final update before the weekend. Got the control services done, though the upper ones need a touch more as they are about the same as the rudder. It does look like a stark contrast and i think i may have gone a touch to far. Opinions welcome.

It looks like a little too much contrast to my eyes, but it could be the photo as well. Is there that much contrast "in person"?

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, September 2, 2011 2:41 AM

A final update before the weekend. Got the control services done, though the upper ones need a touch more as they are about the same as the rudder. It does look like a stark contrast and i think i may have gone a touch to far. Opinions welcome.

The top will need a coat of future before i add the decals as the Xtracolor has come out flat for some reason, it should be gloss. But will save that for Sunday and let the control surfaces dry properly.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, September 1, 2011 11:32 AM

Nice one, thanks. I will deffo get the first two.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Thursday, September 1, 2011 8:54 AM

Bish

Will have to look for that book as well. Is it an old one.

Published in July 2007.  Its the first of four (to date) books in the series.  Vol 1 covers the bombers of the 8th, Vol 2 the fighters of the 8th, Vol 3 covers the 9th AF, and Vol 4 covers the Med, Aftrica, and Middle East AFs.

Hopefully a Vol 5 will be released soon, hopefully covering the Pacific AFs and/or CBI

Here's a link on Amazon to the first volume:

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Colors-Insignia-Aircraft-Markings/dp/0764319876 

Definitely worth picking up.  Great for us modelers.

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, September 1, 2011 7:01 AM

And to add to it i did a google on the pilots name. Its turns up on the list of crew for the RAF's 311 Czech Sq but with a difefrent rank. Could be a coincidence, but still.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, September 1, 2011 6:49 AM

Ye, that helps alot. One of the mistakes i was makeing was that i didn't realise that the first number of the serial, in my case a 2, was the second letter of the year code. I found a site that lists all US aircrfat serial numbers.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html

I am not sure how accurate or complete it is, but according to it, aircrfat serial 42-3612 belongs to a C-46. I have searched for every possable combination, including 42-23612 but no luck. So i am assuming my aircrfat is not a real one, or they have misread the numbers. Also i guess they have missed out the individual letter repeated on the fuselage.

I won't be applying the decals until next week. Unless i can find some replacements that match the aircrfat, i will stick with the ones i have. But i have learned alot, and its been a lesson, one of which is not to trust decals on faith.

Will have to look for that book as well. Is it an old one.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:03 PM

I would search for B-17 serial numbers, instead of the just that one serial.  You might find it in a group of serials, i.e. 4183869 - 4184958.  I've used this and found several sites listing all the serial numbers used on B-17s. If the aircraft is fake, might as well add a colorful nose art to it, and at least get the BG/BS marking right.  I did that on my last B-17.  I created a fake serial number and nost art/name, but made the squadron markings from a real BG/BS.

How many numbers of the serial number displayed on the tail depended on the individual BG/BS.  The serial numbers where assigned by the government so wheather is was built by Boeing (BO), Vega (VE), or Douglas (DL) didn't matter.  Most BG left off the first 4 in the serial (serials started with a 4, follwed by 1, 2, 3, or 4 depending on what year the funds for the aircraft was approved.  So lets take the serial number of the Memphis Belle, 41-24485.  41 indicates that the funds for the aircraft where approved in 1941, even though the aircraft it self wasn't delivered to the USAAF till 1942.  24485 was a number inside a block of numbers for the number of B-17s approved for that budget, i.e. 10 B-17s where assigned so 41-24480 to 41-24490 was given to Boeing for 10 B-17s, while 41-24491 to whatever could be assigned to B-25s.

Same thing goes to the squadron codes and aircraft letter.  Most BGs put the squadron and aircraft code on the fuselodge, with the aircraft code repeated on the tail (late in the war, when the high visibilty markings where mandated).  In the early part of the war, squadron and aircraft codes where just on the fuselodge). Some BG used strips of color to identify squadron, with the aircraft code only on the tail.  Again, it depended on the on the BG.

Not all B-17s had nose art.  They where few and far between, but there where some with no nose art, especially late in the war when no particular aircraft was assigned to a crew. I.E. aircraft with serial number 42-89765 was assigned to crew A on Monday, crew B on Tuesday,, Crew C flew in her on Thursday, with crew A flying a mission in her on Saturday.

Speaking of the 96th BG, the following is a picture from the book "Battle Colors, Volume 1"  Sorry don't have a scanner, so I took a picture of the page with the markings.  Replace the red you see in the pic with the right color for the BD you're portraying.  The 337th BS used red, 338th used yellow, and 339th used blue.  the 413 BS was a pathfinder unit, so no color was used.  In this BG, the aircraft code was repeated on the tail.

Hope this helps. 

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:29 PM

Thanks. I have done the rudder and i am likeing it. The kit rudder doesn't have the rib detail so it loses some of the effect. I was thinking the other control services would be lighter as they faced the sun.

Now i have another question that i hope you can help me with. The decals for my kit are from a Czech company called MPD. The only thing i understand in the small instructions is the unit and date. But i found one thing strange, theres no nose art on this aircrfat. And i can't find any pics of 8th AAF B-17's without it. Then something else caught my attention. The decals have 2 letters on the fuselage, the Squadron code i believe, and a single letter on the rudder, the individual aircrfat letter. But other aircraft of this period seem to repeat the aircrfat letter on the fuselage. Something else that did concern me was that theres only 5 numbers in the aircrfat serial numebr on the tail, where as most seem to have 6. But looking through my referances, i ahve found a few others that have 5 numbers, all this have the letters DL in their designation, i believe this refers to the factory that built the aircraft.

The 96th BG site doesn't list the airaft that flew with it, unlike some of the other BG websites. I can find no bomber version of the little friends website. And when i put the aircrafts serial into goggle, all i get is the decals i bought.

Do you where i might be able to find this aircraft. It would just be nice to know this is a real plane and not a subject of a decal companies imagination. The decal instructions list the crew, and a few of the names appear to be Eastern European, possably why this company did decals for this aircraft.

Any help would be great.I will get some pics of the rudder up at the weekend.

 

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:22 AM

Bish

Do those fade the same as the rudder.

Yep, the rudder, elevators and ailerons are all fabric covered, so they will fade faster than the metal skin.  I would match the fading of the rudder on the elevators and ailerons, or go a little lighter since those faced the sun more than the rudder.

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:14 AM

B17Pilot

Nice fade job, Bish!

 Bish:

The next thing will be to use some faded OD with white oil paint dry brushed onto the rudder.

 

Don't forget about the elevators, and ailerons

Do those fade the same as the rudder. The only things i could find were colour plates of side on views showing faded rudders. I did think about the elevators and ailerons but wasn't sure if they would be the same. But its not to late to do those.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 10:19 PM

Nice fade job, Bish!

Bish

The next thing will be to use some faded OD with white oil paint dry brushed onto the rudder.

Don't forget about the elevators, and ailerons

  

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Borlando Fla home of the rat
Posted by TREYZX10R on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:26 PM

Bish nicely done fade ,will be great to see it all come together with the other colors

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 3:59 PM

Time for another update now the OD is on.

Monday night i applied straight OD, useing the Xtracolor enamel WW II OD.

 

Then tonight i added several layers of faded OD. Each one light in in both shade and application than the last.

Then finally a last coat of faded OD with a few drops of white, lightly misted onto the top of the wings, fuselage and on the rudder.

The next thing will be to use some faded OD with white oil paint dry brushed onto the rudder.

Thanks for looking.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

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