Red Storm Rising 25th Anniversary GB

Soooooo. Does this mean I can use the VF-1 Tomcat? If not i'll use my Su-25 Frogfoot.

I'd say go with the Frogfoot.

Ok, that'll work. It's the Revell 1/48 Su-25 Frogfoot. I'll add some stuff to it as well just not sure what yet.

My F-19 arrived in the mail today, and its looking good for a kit that is as old as I am!  The Model Master paint brochure was dated 1988...

Where can you still get one of those?

Mind if I ask how old you are?

I got mine off of ebay (and they are DEAD CHEAP).  I missed out on a bundle of the F-19 plus that crazy Soviet Stealth Fighter.  

And, I would be 22 (hence I'm as old as that brochure, young bachelors have to have a hobby you know...)

I looked around after I asked you that question,and would you believe that Revell Germany is still making new kits of it in 1/144? Found one on ehobbies and another one on Amazon. Still, no school like the old school.

As for bachelors and hobbies, you bet. Keeps you out of the bars, and keeping out of the bars keeps you out of the delivery room. :-)

General announcement: Sometime between now and the end of the weekend I'll be back by to update the participant list. And if you're in the Midwest, you know tonight will be an excellent night to stay the heck away from the outdoors and slap some glue on something. Enjoy your builds!

I need to make a change to my build.  I'll start with Tamiya's 1/35 M2 Bradley IFV, 3rd ID markings.  I already have the kit, and can't justify spending close to $40.00 for a 25 year old kit for a GB.

Just for clarification, this is NOT the M2A2 ODS Bradley, but the 1985 Tamiya M2 issue with the interior.

Maybe later down the road I can find an Orion on the cheap for "Penguin 8".

Noted, Smitty.

stikpusher

beav:

Another note, when did the NATO three-tone scheme take over from that other one (that I cannot remember the name of)

 

The NATO camo three color scheme started appearing around summer' 86 or so IIRC... Before that the Army and Marines both used the four color MERDC schemes that were "adjustable" to the area and time of year. IE: Spring/Summer Verdant, or Gray Desert. Also there was at least one, and possibly more experimental camo schemes is use. As well as lots of stuff in overall Forest Green 34079. I know in 1987, in my Mech Inf Battallion MERDC Camo, NATO TriColor Camo, Experimental Four Color Camo, and Forest Green were all there.

Ditto... We were still painting stuff in NATO camo as late as 1988/89... New tracks and wheels were coming from depot with the overall Forest Green, and the "Paint by Numbers" sheets were handed out to the OMS's to paint over the green and MERDC-camo'd vehicles.... "My" 1/4-ton (I was an Engineer Battalion NBC NCO  at that time and had a "hack" 1/4 ton of my very own, lol), which was initially assigned to me in MERDC-camo, got a NATO paint job by me personally, as did all the small-wheels (1/4-tons and CUCVs)...  We (the drivers, that is)were given these cockamamee "NATO Paint Kits" that had a paint-gun/trigger assembly that snapped onto a regular rattle-can...

'Nato paint kits'?!  sounds like fun!  At least the enemy will be able to sort our battalions important equipment from the our trucks-diferent camo schemes.  We're running 50% desert on our conventional stuff (trucks, HMMWVs etc) and Nato on the systems (radars, launchers etc).  Echo co. the maintenance people have some vehicles in flat green rolling around yet.

Our Nato schemes go really well with the yellow safety paint that they've put everywhere to make sure soldiers don't trip when climbing around...

Yes, that was one of those eye opener moments, after training all that time Stateside about camouflage and tactical concealment, etc. then upon arival in West Germany and drawing our vehicles from the POMCUS site all the road safety stuff they had. After all Konrad on the Autobahn had to be able to see us as we moved with our reflector tape, whoopie lights, lack of foliage, etc. Train like your gonna fight? Not if the Greens have any say in the matter, which in 1980s West Germany, they did.

Just got a call from the LHS...HMS Trafalgar is in port. I'll go get her today.

I have a dilemma now. Build her as HMS Torbay (featured in the book, with four kills and her captain is an integral part of the planning of Operation Doolittle) or HMS Trafalagar, which is only mentioned and unfortunately dies an ignominous death. But there's something about the name ship of a class, especially one with a name like Trafalgar. But I prefer the ducted props that all the boats after Trafalgar have. Hmmm...guess I'll figure it out after I have the kit in my hands.

I faced the same dilemma when I bought the kit not too long ago. I built mine as HMS Torbay (not quite finished yet, but soon), because yes, the ducted screw does look cool and of course after reading about Torbay in the novel. But the kit does have several other options- planes extended or retracted, periscopes/antennas extended or retracted, jackstaff(the bow and stern flagpoles to  a guy like me?) up or down, as well as the screw options. Well since they cost about $10 a sub, why get only one...???

beav

'Nato paint kits'?!  sounds like fun!  At least the enemy will be able to sort our battalions important equipment from the our trucks-diferent camo schemes.  We're running 50% desert on our conventional stuff (trucks, HMMWVs etc) and Nato on the systems (radars, launchers etc).  Echo co. the maintenance people have some vehicles in flat green rolling around yet.

Our Nato schemes go really well with the yellow safety paint that they've put everywhere to make sure soldiers don't trip when climbing around...

Yeah, it was a hoot alright... Trying to camo a desert yellow CUCV under a Woodland net in white Ft Hood caliche, surrounded by brown mesquite and green cedar, lol...

During Desert Storm, our battalion's howitzers and tracks were still painted in the NATO camo, and the wheels were tan...  Dunno why they even bothered with painting the wheels..   Anyway... When we got back to the states, all our howitzers went to depot and we never saw them again, we got new green howitzers (heard they came from the POMCUS stocks in Germany since the Cold War was over) and FAASVs, and they were still that way when I left in 92... Before that time-frame(in late 80's), the only desert camo'd stuff I ever saw in the States was the 24th Mech's iron, and some units from the Arizona ARNG, 'cept they were painted with that wierd Desert MERDC, rather than the regular straight Desert Tan the 24th had... Oh, and the OPFOR at NTC... 

After DS, it was, like you said, easy to spot the important stuff on FTXs since nobody repainted anything...  I knew it  wasn't gonna happen anyway, I said so, lol.  The day we left  SA in '91 and everybody on the plane was hootin' and hollerin',  I told my guys not to be too happy, since we were gonna be going back in a few months...

Turned out I was wrong, but only about how long it would be before we had to take some of the same ground (and then some) we'd already owned once, but not about going back... 

We did a brigade run past a bunch of the paladin and MLRS units' motor pools the other day.  It was slow, downhill and boring so I took the time to admire their M88s, M109s, and M270s.  I am shocked that apparently, some of the extreme weatherers are vindicated by a few vehicles that are floating around out there in active duty garrison units.  There was one M88 that was faded almost white, had massive oil streaks all over the side, and the tracks were all rusted up.  No silver drybrushing on that beast!  An M109 I saw looked like it had been drybrushed with a dark tan around all the high edges.  Wow, never seen junk like that before.  That and in one fire unit of paladins I was able to discern at least three different shades of desert camo!

There is a NG unit in my hometown that still rocks the MERDC woodland on some of their trucks, CONEXs, etc.

The MERDC schemes were notorious for color shift and fade. But yes, modern stuff is much more prone to extreme weathering due to its' long service life. After all the time span for usage of most WWII stuff is much shorter. A 76mm M4A1 Sherman would only have a combat service life max of less than a year from first use in July 44 to VE day in May 45, for example.

But for all that, the MERDC schemes are cool.  I still think my favorite camo scheme of all time is the NATO tri-color, and I'm glad that all my equipment is green, black, and brown.

Yes they are. They were very versatile and blended well in the intended environments, their shortcomings were not major. The whole reason for the switch to NATO Tri Color was primarily to make it harder to identify the nationality of equipment by camo alone. But seeing as how not all NATO countries adopted the Tri Color camo, that goal was not completely met.

psh, opsec, who needs it anyways.

I know I saw a piece of equipment in someone's motorpool today that was MERDC woodland.  I was impressed, they probably didn't even know they had it.

Hans, you would appreciate this.  Today we had some people out in the motor pool taking photos and using a measuring tape for reference.  The first thing that I thought was wow, someone is going to make a new mold of a HEMMT, but then I went up and talked to them.  It was so bizarre that I had to get it checked, but here it was.  No, they were not in the model making business.  They were from Raytheon who has a contract to produce a first-person view computer game for systems maintainers.  Yes, thats right, they are going to train mechanics on how to fix faults or broken bits on a computer game.  

What happened to just learning by doing?  If they are struggling for broken stuff to fix, they should just go down to the DOL/Railhead area where they've got the vehicles that need to be reclaimed/refurbished.  I should really bring my camera to that lot and get pictures that would put extreme weatherer's to shame for not going far enough.

Anyways, unless I'm blind, this build has kicked off hasn't it?

They were from Raytheon who has a contract to produce a first-person view computer game for systems maintainers.  Yes, thats right, they are going to train mechanics on how to fix faults or broken bits on a computer game.  

What happened to just learning by doing?  

The sims are pretty realistic, don't require vehicles, and can train a couple dozen strudents at the same time on the same task... Can't get that many guys onto one piece of actual equipment... Much easier and cheaper to do a virtual repair job on 24 virtual vehicles rather than having 24 real ones sitting there to play with.. 

You're too young to remember the TEC (Training Extension Course) tapes we used to have for that same purpose... THOSE were pretty bad, lol...  Even the docs (Doctors, not the Doc) had 'em, and did virtual Triage and wound treatment on tapes and later, laser discs with this "light pen thing" that you touched the screen with...  That was bacck in the mid 90's when I firs saw those things.. Everything from the aforementioned medical stuff to helicopter aviaonics to Patriot fire-control stuff...

"The only way  to train a man to carry 90 lbs up and down hills is to have him carry 90 lbs up and down hills."

Charlie Beckwith

"Here lie the bones of Ranger Jones

A graduate of this institution.

He died last night, in his first firefight,

Using the School Solution" -Epitath on the tombstone outside the US Army Ranger School HQ building at Ft Benning...

However, the "Train as you Fight" creedo doesn't apply much to the Wrenchs at their schoolhouse...   Not a lot of vehicles get a new neutral safety switch installed or a transfer case replaced under fire, ya know...

Well considering that my mechanical aptitude really needs hands on to learn a skill (the SINGARS instructor and repair courses re-inforced that to me a few years back) I guess I am one of those hard old school cases... As long as it works effectively, go for it.

Heh.. I'm just kinda "Hit it with a bigger hammer" type... With commo, I was like Andy Griffith's character Will Stockdale in "No Time for Sergeants" (If you haven't read it or seen the movie, you're missing a helluva funny thing)... He was having problems with the radio in a B-25...

"Whenever my Pa had a problem with our old radio, he'd just open the back, spit in it, and then give it a big Whomp! on the side"

I think I am going to build a few different things.  I'll start with a Hobby Boss Oscar and head on out from there.  Some tanks, some planes, sounds like a good time.

Jim

Beav is correct, we have kicked off! Stand to and start building!

Buffrin, welcome aboard. An Oscar will be a fine addition, let us know what else you're doing as you decide.

Oh I like this idea! I loved RSR. I do (very mildly) disagree with Hans in that I do not think it should have been the FIRST Clancy book to be made into a movie. They should make a movie NOW, when the CGA are state of the art and all the battle scenes can be reproduced just like the book. And yes, RSR and Without Remorse are his best; now, he has gone the way of the (Stephen) King.

In terms of OOB, there was a wargame made based on the book (both board and computer WG, IIRC). The game had a comprehensive OOB.

Cdclukey – yes, I read Hackett’s work; more formal and academic than a straight “fiction” book, but very good (and dry) nevertheless for what it is. Oh, and whatever you do, do NOT get the ARII HMS Trafalgar (1:700), VERY inaccurate.

For RSR, Clancy actually had a co-author, Larry Bond of “Harpoon” naval warfare simulation fame. Larry Bond also wrote some solo books, of which the first three are “up there” with RSR, before the quality dried up rather quickly (avoid his sub-based books!).

Some good alternative history discussion regarding RSR:

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=97087

Oh, about the GB  lol ….  You can add me with an LA Class sub (ARII 1:700 scale), maybe something else down the road.

I do (very mildly) disagree with Hans in that I do not think it should have been the FIRST Clancy book to be made into a movie.

I only said that because it was, A: Far and away my favorite of all the Clancy works, and TWO: That it would have been better to do it while the Cold War was still happening ang the USSR was still in existance.... There's a big part of the potental audience that doesn't know what either the Cold War or the USSR is, since it (RSR) took place before they were born, lol.. But I wholeheartedly agree with you that, with modern Computer FX, it could be something that blows away the audience... I'd even shell out the big bucks to go to the theater on this one, something I haven't done since Saving Private Ryan was released. Prior to that, I hadn't been in a theater since Platoon, lol...

Its funny, you know; Harpoon is actually my favorite video game of all time.  I was playing it this morning.  I killed three soviet carriers in short order with my two carrier air wings.   The scenario was set in the middle east, but there was a definite TU-22 Backfire threat, and they were led in by Bear D's.  Sound familiar?  Anyways, I defeated that threat by forward deploying an E-2C Hawkeye AEW aircraft in the probably direct flight path to my fleet (the computer isn't too bright) and blowing them out of the sky before they could get a good read on my fleet.  Why didn't they do that in the book?

To kill off their surface units, I deployed probably over 60 aircraft armed with harpoon ASMs, I then mimicked the Russian tactic by overloading their short range defense weapons with targets.  Nobody could hope to defend against 40 A-6 Intruders armed with Harpoon 1Cs (that formation in the game carries 160 antiship missiles...hehehe)  First went the Krestas (oddly there was a KGB Kresta III in there too, another Clancy-used unit) followed by some of their AAW ships, then the CGs, CVs, and the CVH.

Anyways, getting off topic here, I'm working to finish off my SP Arty GB build, then I'll be starting my Frisbee.  I'm trying to think of ways to get it look more 'Red Storm Rising-ish'  Maybe I'll add some external hardpoints and some rockeye cluster munitions.  Remember, these kits were designed before people figured out that a stealthy aircraft aren't stealthy when you're carrying several large trashcans underneath.