Falklands/Malvinas War 30th Anniversary GB

Yep, its Green Slime in the Army as well. As for Northern Ireland, do you know i can't recall if we wore lightweights or combats on the streets. I know we wore light weights when on guard duty. We may have worn them when on patrol, but honestly can't remember, it was nearly 20 years ago. Will have to try and find some photos. As far as i am aware, light weights ain't issued any more, they certainly ain't worn. I think i still have my 3 sets somewhere. The M16's is an interesting one. I have no idea. As you know, our main rifle at the time was the SLR, 7.62mm. You could be right about the mountain warfare cadre. where these the standard long M16, or the shorter carbine version as they would make sense if they were carried while climbing.

Bish, Now you know why I was a "Spook"--I believe they are called "Green Slime" in British Army,or at least in the Royal Marines!  Anyway, I have read that 85 pattern stuff was not very well liked.  I have also noticed in pictures that solid green trousers (lightweights?) were often worn in garrison and camo trousers only worn in the field or in actual combat.  Even in Northern Ireland troops seemed to wear lightweights more than camo trousers (except if threat of petrol bombs high, which caused lightweights to melt); also, in Falklands, it appears as if troops switched to solid green trousers shortly after surrender, especially the Paras.  I imagine their camos were pretty well soiled by this time and maybe just a measure to clean up a bit?  Are solid green lightweights still issued today?  Something else has caught my eye:   I have seen at least three Royal Marines (well, 2 RMs, 1 attached RN photographer) carrying M16s with early 3-prong flash suppressors.  And no, they are not SAS:  they have on RM or RN berets.  Who was issued these and how widespread were they?  Were they from the Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre?  How would they be supplied with .223 ammo; no other weapon in British arsenal at the time used such ammo? Just curious!  

Good, well done, you spotted my deliberate mistake

Shows how much time i spend in uniform doesn't it. Those combats with the yellowish tan are quite common, especially on the Jungle combats. The new 95 stuff, especially the trousers, don't last as long as the older ones, they are alot thinner. And before Combat 85 we had plain green working dress that we wore in barracks and the combats that were worn in the field. These were thicker and in my view harder wearing. Thats why i think you don't often see the 85 stuff worn and faded. It wears through the crotch and needs replacing before it fades.

Bish

SPOOKS, am i right in thinking that the pattern most commonly seen in 82 is the same as the standard 3 colour pattern we use now. We still get parkas on occasion, and these look old enough to be from back then. Combat 95 replaced the old uniform i started out with, and i would have thought that had been in use more than 13 years.

Bish  Do not mean to quibble, but DPM has 4-colours: green, brown, tan or sand base colour, and black.  The colours in the 95 combats are very close to the same as issued in '82.  I would not be surprised if your "current" issued parkas were leftovers from that era.  Have you checked the tags inside for a manufacturing date on the garments' sizing label?  Some of the very early issued items from the late 60s through sometime in the 70s had a green that turned to an aquamarine-type colour, especially as it faded; our early BDUs in the US (early 80s) had a brown that faded to an almost purple!  Some of these early garments (I have a smock and trousers of this period) had blurred edges on the patterns almost the same as Waffen SS camo smocks had--comes from the pattern rollers not being properly aligned if I understand it correctly.  Anyway, the colours in a set of current 95 combats are "close enough for government work" to use for the Falklands period.  Of the various era DPM jackets I have, the 90 pattern, with only a front zip and no buttons (as like a para smock) had a yellowish tan base colour unlike any others I have seen.  Most others are pretty close in basic colour.  Today's uniforms seem to have more 'intense' colours and do not seem to fade as badly--though I am sure some squaddies can show some pretty faded articles to the contrary!   

Not exactly the sort of place you want to be on the run is it

Great story Spook. And i can just picture it. Theres not exactly alot of places to hide down there. Thats made me chuckle.

Saw some earlier posts regarding Maj. Tombas experiences.  Would like to pass on the following which may be of interest:  In 1990 while I was TDY at Goodfellow AFB, I was given the opportunity, along with several other officers, to meet with an Argentinian pilot that, we were told, was a Pucara pilot that was shot down and captured by the British during the campaign.  We were also cautioned to use the term "Malvinas" and not "Falklands" in order not to insult him!  I did not get or remember his name (a bit of drinking going on at the time!), but the only pilot that fits those criteria would be Teniente Cruzado, who was shot down by groundfire on 28 May.  The thing that I most remember is that he told that after his capture, he was not guarded closely by the British.  He stated he was a bit indignant over this and asked why he was not being treated as a potential threat.  The reply he got was, to me, typically British.  The soldier he asked looked around in a 360 circle at the bleak Falkland's landscape and said, "Where are you going to go, mate?"  At that, the downed pilot looked around and had to agree and waited to be repatriated.  I wish I could remember more and hadn't got so drunk, but he was a very friendly fellow and an honour to have met--even if I cannot remember his name!   If I have misidentified the pilot and someone may know who it really may have been, please post something; I really would like to know for sure who he was!            

SPOOKS, am i right in thinking that the pattern most commonly seen in 82 is the same as the standard 3 colour pattern we use now. We still get parkas on occasion, and these look old enough to be from back then. Combat 95 replaced the old uniform i started out with, and i would have thought that had been in use more than 13 years.

dupes

Just about done with assembly on the Scimitar! Will be sure to snap a pre-paint pic for you guys. Question about uniforms - want to add a fig (or 3) to the build, but have NO idea how to paint them. Anyone have a decent reference for period uniforms?

  First of all, thanks Bish for your endorsement--means alot!!  Dupes, do you want a book to use or will a website be sufficient?  If you only need to see the pattern used, you can google 'DPM camoflague' and will get several useful articles; wikipedia had a good overall history of DPM camo ( a few mistakes in it) and a few good colour photos of the pattern.  Since I see you live in the U.S., you can check with a store called the Sportsman's Guide; they usually have DPM jackets on sale at very cheap prices that are of the colouration suitable for the Falklands era--I even managed to get an early 68 pattern from them (they didn't know it!).  As far as books go, I would highly recommend Osprey's Men-At-Arms Series #133 Battle for the Falklands (1) Land Forces.  It gives an excellent rundown on the uniform items used in the campaign on both sides, but especially the British.  It has some excellent photos (although in B&W) and some of Mike Chappell's best plates on British uniforms I have seen.  This book is usually on E-Bay-- I bought an extra one just to keep on my workbench.  The colours I use for DPM are close to those used for the 3-colours used for late WWII German Armour, though DPM has black added to it and the base sand colour could be toned down a bit .  The DPM colours have had different tints in them over the years, and the early polyester jungle uniforms had some really strange colours in them, especially the brown, but there is almost no variation between fabrics today.  Another cheap but accurate source for photos is from a surplus store in London called Silverman's; I believe it is www.Military.co.uk; will have to check.  They usually have colour pictures of available DPM uniforms, often including original Falklands era parkas.  Do you have figures already picked out?  If not, let me know I can make some suggestions.  Most on market are in current uniforms/headgear; helmets in Falklands era much different than today's.  Long answer, hope some of it useful.         

Bish

It seems that areoclubs 72nd scale is slightly different from italeris.You could just try and fit it in, my mig cockpit is now way to cramped for a pilot to get into, but once its together its hard to see. maybe if you could put the seat lower down and thin the reae if the bit allowing you to move the seat back, see how that works,

Bish

It seems that areoclubs 72nd scale is slightly different from italeris.You could just try and fit it in, my mig cockpit is now way to cramped for a pilot to get into, but once its together its hard to see. maybe if you could put the seat lower down and thin the reae if the bit allowing you to move the seat back, see how that works,

actually sanding hard with a metal rasp. I used on lots aircraft ,italeri academy and matchbox but ony problems in eight. None picture about left cockpit wall for the etendard? A picture of the 1/48 can be good

i see a matchbox kit above

 

It seems that areoclubs 72nd scale is slightly different from italeris.You could just try and fit it in, my mig cockpit is now way to cramped for a pilot to get into, but once its together its hard to see. maybe if you could put the seat lower down and thin the reae if the bit allowing you to move the seat back, see how that works,

I will start my Twin Otter this weekend.

 

Bish

Alot of work needed on that harrier. Is the seat designed for that brand of model, or is it for somthing else. I fitted and Eduard PE set for an Italeri MiG 23 to a Hasegawa MiG 23. The PE set was to big for the cockpit and had to be trimmed down a bit. You could have several kits of the same aircrfat by different brands and they could all be slightly different size wise.

in other work another seat must be scratched

the old metal seat from aeroclub was not designed for a specific kit, at the time aeroclub just proposed with the seat name. Try this afternoom to fit in right way, otherwise on bench have lots of plastic sheets

Alot of work needed on that harrier. Is the seat designed for that brand of model, or is it for somthing else. I fitted and Eduard PE set for an Italeri MiG 23 to a Hasegawa MiG 23. The PE set was to big for the cockpit and had to be trimmed down a bit. You could have several kits of the same aircrfat by different brands and they could all be slightly different size wise.

some little update and some help needed.. not finded pictures of left cockpit wall of super etendard

so, the right side is done

and on the harrier

glued the intakes and improved secondary intakes

the fits in this area are not so good , need some putty, sanding and some rescribe.

started te cockpit

using the kit original floor marker the ejection seat is out and collide with canopy

i downed the floor a little in correct height

even with this height the seat seems too big .. something probably is out dimension.

that's all , need more test fitting to find correct way 

Can't wait to see some pics dupes. As for the uniforms, this is a bit embarresing for me as a serving British soldier, but i think USAAFSPOOKS is the expert on that one. I think the patterns were the same as they are now. I am pretty sure the uniforms they wore in 82 would be the same as i was first issued in 90, but can't be 100% sure.

Just about done with assembly on the Scimitar! Will be sure to snap a pre-paint pic for you guys. Question about uniforms - want to add a fig (or 3) to the build, but have NO idea how to paint them. Anyone have a decent reference for period uniforms?

Bish

I never realised how the tags worked. I had seen the list of words on the right on the main page, but just assumed it was common words that had been used. Now i know. Not that i would post just to add another tag, but i think this is good enough reason

Posting just to add another tag? Perish the thought! But using the system to promote the BG thread, I think we can get away with that!

I never realised how the tags worked. I had seen the list of words on the right on the main page, but just assumed it was common words that had been used. Now i know. Not that i would post just to add another tag, but i think this is good enough reason

Bish, yes, you could add the tags anywhere you want I suppose. I'm only adding it to this thread as it likely has an impact on any keyword searches people may be doing. (And I Falklands nice & big in there now that you two have done it!)

I had gone back and added it to several of my own posts from earlier but it didn't show up. There must be a requirement to have two or more people use the same tag, just to make sure one lunatic doesn't pollute the list with his own words. The programmers completely underestimated the number of lunatics in here!!

I never understood all the tags over there. Let's try it and see.

Right, got ur. I knew that was there but had never really taken any notice of it before. So does that mean we could add the same tag where ever on the forum we post.

Bish

Falklands.

Is this the sort of thing you mean. I am sure i could get a piece back, though i might have to clear it first. But would only be a small bit. Even if the aircrfat isn't there, theres bound to be a few small bit laying around coming up out of the ground. Won't know for a while if i going yet, but i have asked to go back.

Nope! When you add a new post or reply, look just below the area that your typing appears in - there is a section there labeled "Tags". It's a feature they have built in to help with the search function on the website. You can add your own tag there or click on the Select Tags button. A bunch of us added some goofy tags just to try it out a few months back & it looks like nobody has replaced those with "real" tags yet!

Falklands.

Is this the sort of thing you mean. I am sure i could get a piece back, though i might have to clear it first. But would only be a small bit. Even if the aircrfat isn't there, theres bound to be a few small bit laying around coming up out of the ground. Won't know for a while if i going yet, but i have asked to go back.

[quote user="bondoman"

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Bish if you can get a piece of the thing I'd be ever so grateful and would use it in my model display.

[/quote]

Now that would make for an interesting display!

Hey gang, just as a side note - could some of you "tag" your next couple of posts with "Falklands"? I think if a few of us do it, that tag word will replace one of the silly-tags that show up in the right hand column of the web page. If it shows up there, we could attract a couple more builders.

Thats a great account bondo, thansk for shareing. I have asked to go back in Dec, so i will see what happens. I have flown past Goose green alot of time, usually heading to the west Islands, an di have been to San carlos a couple of times. Can't say i have seen anything, but then i wasn't looking. But San carlos is only about an hours drive from MPA, so maybe i can get a vehcile and go have a look. I would really like to get to Goose while i have a chance. And theres a military cemetery near there which apparently is Argentinian, so would like to pay my respects there.

Oh wow, getting to correspond with Tomba would be a real treat.

From the June 2007 issue of Model Aircraft Monthly:

"On the morning of the British amphibious landings at San Carlos on 21 May, HMS Ardent shelled Goose Green airstrip in attempt to keep the Pucaras grounded, and the gunfire commenced just as two pairs of Pucaras were in the process of taking off, although only three made it into the air. These three were joined by a further pair and they spread out to look for the landing areas.

One of the first Pucaras airborne was A-531 which was forced to fly alone after it's wingman had failed to take off and this was the first to find the British troops coming ashore, but, as it ran in to carry out an attack, it came under intense small arms fire before being shot down by a Stinger missile (SAM) fired by an SAS patrol on top of a nearby hill. Luckily, the pilot, Capitan Benitez, used his Martin Baker ejection seat to good effect by parachuting to safety from only 300 feet and managed to escape to his own lines on foot.

Soon afterwards, one of the pairs of Pucaras also found British troops coming ashore at San Carlos and they too ran the gauntlet if intense small arms fire and missiles but survived to carry out a quick attack before concentrating on the observation post directing naval gunfire towards the airstrip at Goose Green, which they attacked with rockets. After leaving this target however, the Pucaras luck ran out when they ran into a pair of Sea Harriers. In the low level pursuit that followed, Pucara A-511, flown by Major Carlos Tomba, was shot down by the Sea Harrier flown by Lt Cdr "Sharkey" Ward [ FRS.1 of No. 801 NAS but I do not know which airframe] who made a number of firing passes using his 30mm Aden cannon before Tomba ejected to safety."

Now, the first thing you notice is that although a two place aircraft, in these missions the pilot was solo in the Pucara.

I would guess that the A-511 is somewhere between Goose Green, north towards Port San Carlos. I'd also guess it's been long since spirited away by souvenir hunters. That's a 30km stretch of pretty desolate country, looks to me.

Jeremias, where did you get those pictures? looks like a personal collection.

Bish if you can get a piece of the thing I'd be ever so grateful and would use it in my model display.

 

Many thanx Jere

The handle then is correct but some adjust on the seat needeed. Also started to work on cockpit walls today, some details on front well and soon able to close fuselages, after this the most work on the etendar is done

It would be interesting to see what condition it is in now.  may be heading back to the Islands in Dec. If thats the case, i will try and locate the aircrfat and get some pics of it.

Bish

Thanks jere for the advice on those sites.

You don't happen to know where on the Islands that aircraft is do you.

Sorry my friend, I have no idea.

Let me know what I can find out when I get back home.

If we are lucky some of my friends can know the pilot, Mayor Tomba.

Best regards

Jere