The group build to end all group builds - THE GREAT WAR

Also, while technically i have not started this... I have technically started it.

Ordered some micro drill bits to redo the stitching on thge side of the FE-2b.  Drilling .008 holes with a #92 bit and "lacing" with .006 Uni wire.

Will do Mike.

BTW, re the PMs we had recently... I got the EZ Line in the mail... and this tidbit is for everyone... The .003" is really very fine indeed.  BUT but it and the .006 line is flat!  I don't recall seeing in nay review of the stuff.  I expected it top be round.  SO if you plan to use this stuff... plan to make sure there's no twist.

Rob, I totally agree about this being a great subject for a GB. It's a refreshing change from all the "WWII and up" stuff that seems to dominate here.

Marc, if you would be so kind as to add an Eduard 1/48 Fokker Dr.1 to my list of entries. Just scored the dual combo kit off of eBay (so maybe you should add two of 'em ). Man, am I pumped that this GB is still going! Thanks!

Glad to see this GB come back and with all of the fine work

ERNEST - Love what you have done so far.  The scratch parts are a HUGE improvement over the kit supplied and they look GREAT   It looks as if the same problems exist in the Whippet as in the MK IV I built so I realize the skill it has taken for you to really make your Whippet look so good.  You will like those tracks.  Look forward for more.

One question: Where do you get your Hex and shaped styrene rod?

WAIKONG - Your Ford was another I've been waiting to see.  Glad you have brought him back out.

RUDDRATT - Great looking interior

I really look forward to see everyones continued builds this is a great subject.

Geez looky looky at all the posts!  

Bufflehead Yup the Kester is a brand of solder.  What I am using (shown in the photo) is some 1/32 dia 60/40 lead/tin with rosin core.  The rosin acts as a type of flux to keep the metal clean so the solder will flow.  The flux is a cleaning agent of sorts that helps the solder to flow and bond with the metal.  It is possible to solder copper, brass, bronze, iron, steel, and nickel with a fair amount of ease. The old Trimaster and Gunze Sangyo photo etch are made from stainless steel.  Have not tried to solder that stuff.  The Eduard photo etch are all made from brass.  The silver colored Eduard etch I believe is nickel plated.  They both should solder just fine.  It does take some practice and in some cases a careful preplanned assembly procedure.  Have the Eduard photo Etch for the 1/350 scale Arizona kit.  That is going to be a CHALLENGE no matter what!

That speed control for the Dremel is a MUST if you intend on doing much anything with plastic or plan on having much in the way of control.  I use mine with a speed control Dremel, but the speed on the Dremel is turned all the way up and the controller does the control.

Busy doing New Years clean up here.  (sigh!)  Lots of bennies to being single, but doing the clean thing does take time.  Plus tried to get parts to do some updating on my old (9 years) computer.  Didn't get the memory (was backordered    )  The other parts ended up being junk in a box.  If you guys decide to do any updating pass on anything with the SABRENT name.  (it's all junk)  Am really needing to add more memory to this machine so it will be able to keep doing the stuff for my posts.  One GIG just isn't enough for all the photo stuff I am workng with.

Wing nut Those are great ideas for doing the spin painting.  Have a watchmaker's lathe that I use, so might try some of those things on it once I get to that point!

Thankee muchly for the Dremel tips. I've used the cutting wheel on some styrene it for scratch building and a little bit of buffing. I also used it to drill port holes for Iron Duke and that worked well, but I could see a potential slip there hurting. But it's always looked like a device that should be much more valuable than it has been. Why do I still need my sanding sticks? I just don't have a decent background in tools and looking at your pics is a very big help.

Eric

Mike, outstanding interior detail work on your Spad XIII!!    Gotta luv a nicely detailed pit!!

wing_nut, YEP, the Dremel was one of the best modeling tools I've invested in!  Its also pretty hand around the house too!

Eric, forgot to put this in the other post.  Here are some thing I use my Dremel for other than the usual grinding, cutting and drilling.

As already mentioned, a lathe.

Mounting road wheels so the spin true makes painting the rubber a breeze.

The band on the spinner was done by touching a 1/4”  wide brush with yellow paint while turning on the Dremel.

Ernest, outstanding work. So glad you did whatever magic you did to get this thing going again.  Can you please do something for the real estate market so I can actually afford all this stuff i am doing regardless

Eric, I will be updating the roster to include all the builds.  The Camel and The Iron Duke look great.  For the badge, go to the 2nd post on page 1 to see the available badges.  Right click on the one(s) that apply, save them to your PC and load them into Photobucket or whatever program you use.  Post it in your signature area in your profile just like it was going into a regular post.

Waikong, I think you mentione dthat ambulance beofre as I rememebr saying that it will very cool to see that one built up.

Mike, very nice work on the Spad

Ernest, got the SE.5 on hold for the moment, but the SPAD should keep me busy for a while. Still plan on getting both of 'em done for the GB though, and am even toying with the idea of throwing a 1/48 Hanriot HD.1 with italian markings in as well, seeing that this GB will be going on for a while.

The Kester solder, if I'm not mistaken, is the brand name. The one I'm familiar with (it's been a while) was a 60/40 (percentage of lead to tin) with a resin (flux) core. Hope that helps.

waikong, thanks for the kind words!  That Ford T Ambulance looks quite interesting. I'd love to see it built up!

ruddratt, thank you also!  I'm really enjoying this kit since its my first WWI tank!  Looking forward to your SE.5!

Paul, Thanks for your comments, and double thanks for the fantastic soldering tips you provided!  As soon as I read them I KNEW what I did wrong.....everything you said NOT to do!!   lol!  The tips on using the rare earth magnets - - - pure GENIUS!  I need to try that very soon!  One question though:  I noticed you use "Kester" solder and flux.  What is it?

More updates fellas:

I forgot to mention that I drilled out all the vision slits and ports, as well cutting the MGs off their ball mounts and drilling out the ball mounts.  You can see this in the photo:

I plan on adding the PE port covers after I've dealt with the tracks.  With the kit MGs removed lets take a look at the Caliber 35 resin Hotchkiss replacements.  Its such a shame that I won't be using the very nice MG bodies, but since they can't be seen why bother!

The barrel section removed and a side by side comparison with the kit parts.  You'll notice a strange flare at the Caliber 35 gun tip, somewhat like a German WWII MG34.

Four Hotchkiss guns cleaned up and installed.

I just didn't like the gun tips as none of the internet images I researched showed such a flare.  So I cut them off and glued on some .30 dia sytrene rod.   Drilled out the tip and now I'm happier!

Another lame kit part - the exhaust mufflers.  I scratchbuilt two replacements from styrene and brass rod.

Installed:

Next up:  the Model Cellar tracks!

Ernest, yep you sure did! Not sure what it was specifically, but whatever it was, it sure got the GB rolling again! Thanks!   ...... and stunning work I might add.

It's been a while since I've contributed some modeling to this GB, so here goes.....

Been picking away at the Eduard 1/48 SPAD XIII, and finally got some pics to post. This is the decal sheet that made me buy that kit.  Always wanted to do Luke's mount (third from the top).

Inside the fuselage halves -

The cockpit floor and the upper deck -

Done mostly with acrylics. The wood grain is a base coat of Tamiya XF-55 with a thinned (with lighter fluid to increase dry time)  mix of burnt umber and yellow ochre applied with a soft flat brush, constantly removing the excess by wiping the brush on a clean rag, until the right effect was acheived. A coat of Tamiya clear orange sealed the deal. For a small 1/48 'pit, this guy, even OOB was quite busy. Lots of parts, probably close to 40 including the instrument decals, PE bits, and scratchbuilt add-ons.

Did manage to avert a major disaster. While finishing up my last session, managed to have a full bottle of Pollyscale Grimy Black slip out of my hand - it ain't full no more. Half of it went all over the work surface, but fortunately the kit damage was confined to the still unpainted lower wing assembly and none of the work above was affected. The cleanup of the bench area - well, that's another story. Needless to say, that particular work session came to an abrupt end.

Whoa!  Did I start something with my post a few days ago?!?   I'm very glad the GB is extended!  I'll keep working on the Whippet and maybe I'll add another if things go well! 

"I've got a Dremel and haven't been as successful as I'd like to find things to do with it. What kind of tool did you use to drill through a brass screw?

Eric"

Eric, I didn't drill through the screws, I simply shortened them using a diamond cut-off wheel.   I have a Dremel clamp assembly that allows me to use the Dremel "hands free".  I simply used pliers to hold the brass screws and the cut-off wheel cut through the brass in short order.  Also, I use a motor speed control to adjust the speed...this device helps immensely!!  Most Dremel tools operate at too high a speed for plastic work.   And I always remember to wear eye protection!!

One of my favorite ways to use the "hands free" Dremel is as a poor man's lathe.  I've turned plastic rods and even sprue pieces to scratchbuild parts that otherwise would be quite difficult.  I did this on the RPM T-26T Artillery Tractor I completed recently for another GB.  A couple of the parts in the photo were made using this method.  Well, at least the main body part was.  Even the headlight lens was made using this method!

Ask around, I'm sure there are others on the forums who can do wonders with their Dremel!

Now back to the GB....I love the Iron Duke you built!  Didn't the HMS Iron Duke and the SMS Konig duke it ouit (pun intended ) during the Battle of Jutland?  I would love to see both your builds side by side!  I've developed a real interest in those dreadnought class battleships of the time period!

I don't understand the stuff about the badges, but I finished Konig October 25 and posted it here. Do I get one?

I'd also like to make a late entry. A few months back when Doog and others were doing wonderful biplanes I was plodding on an Academy Camel and throwing in my two cents. I finished the thing and posted it in aircraft but simply forgot to post it here. So, a little late, below are a couple of pics of my camel. (You can see one pic has the wheel a little off alignment: that happened during handling and was fixed straight away. Didn't notice until I looked at the photos closely and by then the camera was away. Anyone remotely interested can get details at :

/forums/p/137663/1427395.aspx#1427395

Also a pic of Iron Duke which I finished literally about a week before this build started.  And one of Konig for comparison. Shows my dedication to an era where the entire industrial world could go to war over issues that nobody could remotely understand.

Eric

EBergerud

2. Des gives thumbs up to the Academy 32 scale kits still out there (rebox of kits made by HobbyCraft). It's down to a Camel and Nieuport 17 which are both selling for $14 at Scalehobbyist. HobbyCraft's Spad XIII is also available for $21. Six months ago there was a Triplane to go with them, but it's out of print. I'd think it's a get them now or forever keep your peace proposition. I built the Camel, the least of the breed (the Spad is supposed to be the toughest, but that's because of the rigging of the low set upper wing and has nothing to do with the model) and can attest that it was a clean build. I've never built an Eastern European kit that didn't have at least one surprise in it. Personally I'll trade lack of detail for a clean build any day.  Des helps here. He has a jaundiced eye when it comes to PE (which says something: some of his sponsors make PE) but is keen on scratch building and has detailed instructions on how to spiffy-up a kit at zero cost if you're so inclined. (I still haven't quite got the idea of why modelers spend days doing a perfect cockpit when nobody will ever see it unless it goes to a contest. Doubt I'll ever be an exceptional modeler with such thoughts.) Anyway, if you want under $20 serious 32 scale biplanes, you might think about doing it now or put yourself in the hands of Roden and WNW for the foreseeable future. Be nice if Eduard would do 32 scale: biplanes cry for it.

I have the HCR SPAD XIII and...to be honest...even on the parts tree it doesn't look anywhere near as good as the Ni.17. Not to say its terrible or unbuildable or anything, but the difference to my eye was immediate. 

That said...solid kits for the price.

Yeah, I really wish Eduard would belly up to 1/32 bipes. My 1/32 Pup's the size of a 1/48 P-47 (if that) and the scale gives you a lot more room to work within.

If the build is going to continue I'd like to make a couple of points:

1. The site World War I Aircraft Models (  http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/  ) has grown considerably since I last saw it. There are several new very detailed video builds along with a bucket of extremely valuable information on biplane building. It's run by a lone Aussie Des Delatorre who has picked up some sponsors - little companies that make WWI model accessories. This site isn't as large as a couple of others, but it's quality makes it indispensable to a biplane builders. Des, who is a genuinely nice guy, makes jaw-dropping models and his photo logs are so detailed that they rival the long video builds you find at Phil Flory's site for usefulness, and it's all free. (His last build was the Academy Camel I did a few months back - wish I'd had it then for inspiration.) Des is in the lightly weathered school which is I think "iffy" history. But armor guru Tony Greenland makes no apologies for modeling tanks and not the mud they fought in. Anyway, if you're going to seriously weather your biplane, you're on your own. That said, this is a must-see for biplane fans.

2. Des gives thumbs up to the Academy 32 scale kits still out there (rebox of kits made by HobbyCraft). It's down to a Camel and Nieuport 17 which are both selling for $14 at Scalehobbyist. HobbyCraft's Spad XIII is also available for $21. Six months ago there was a Triplane to go with them, but it's out of print. I'd think it's a get them now or forever keep your peace proposition. I built the Camel, the least of the breed (the Spad is supposed to be the toughest, but that's because of the rigging of the low set upper wing and has nothing to do with the model) and can attest that it was a clean build. I've never built an Eastern European kit that didn't have at least one surprise in it. Personally I'll trade lack of detail for a clean build any day.  Des helps here. He has a jaundiced eye when it comes to PE (which says something: some of his sponsors make PE) but is keen on scratch building and has detailed instructions on how to spiffy-up a kit at zero cost if you're so inclined. (I still haven't quite got the idea of why modelers spend days doing a perfect cockpit when nobody will ever see it unless it goes to a contest. Doubt I'll ever be an exceptional modeler with such thoughts.) Anyway, if you want under $20 serious 32 scale biplanes, you might think about doing it now or put yourself in the hands of Roden and WNW for the foreseeable future. Be nice if Eduard would do 32 scale: biplanes cry for it.

3. I'll do a biplane for the GB: I was planning to do the Academy Nieuport first to hone rigging skills before tackling a WNW Pflaz III that I have, but might get ambitious. I build ships too and there's rigging there, actually harder in some ways. 

Paul, Thanks for the tips regarding soldering PE.  I tried my hand at that just recently for some PE flaps.  Didn't turn out too well, figure I need a LOT more practice, but your tips will sure come in handy.

Blinking amazing. Looks like I'm going to need a sapphire. Just when I thinking I'm making some progress along comes someone with real world skills that can do things I really couldn't dream of. Over at Model Warship they have a Scratch Build forum and the things done there are amazing. And most of the people that are doing them have some kind of background in wood working, graphics, machine tools, engineering etc. I was a history teacher. Got mean with a piece of chalk and pretty fair with a microphone. Sure helps a lot when building a Dreadnought.

Going from the sublime to the ridiculous, I've found that epoxy and even good PVA like Aleene's when used in conjunction with CA can take you a long way with PE. But I don't build cockpits either. I did get a couple of little gadgets at White Ensign that cost under $10 that have really helped with fine PE bending. I don't see the need for one of those big bending gizmos.

That's a good tip about using a wood Xacto for cutting PE. I've got one and never even thought of using it. White Ensign, which makes very delicate PE, recommends the standard #11 blade which I think is a good way to wreck a part while getting it off the sprue: a #17 is much better or even a razor blade. I use glass to cut on. Glad the blades are cheap.

And it would be nice if this build became something close to eternal. Actually WWI weaponry is a little high tech for me right now. The next major project I'm committed to is USS Oregon in 225 scale for the PreDreadnought group build. But after that I've got an Academy/Hobby Boss Nieuport 17 and a WNW Pfalz III in the stash along with a bucket of Bob's buckles. (Say it three times.) Looking forward to it. I built the Academy 32 scale Camel last summer and I had a fine time: came out pretty well too.

Eric

Eric

Hey bufflehead,  the tank is looking great!  Excellent work on the build so far!

Soldering PE brass can be quite challenging unless you have done years of it.

Here are some tricks for the next try:

1. Pre-tin the areas that will be soldered together.  This will make the actual solder job work as the tinned part will reflow a ton easier than trying to get the solder to go where you want after the fact.
2. Once pretinned, the parts can be tacked in place with just a touch of the solder iron.
3. Keep the tip of the iron cleaned off and tinned at all times.  When doing a lot of soldering it is a big help to have a damp (very damp is better, but not soggy)  sponge handy to wipe the tip on. This removes the oxidized solder then re-tin the tip.
4. Once everything is tacked in place and lined up, THEN heat an area just enough to start making the pretinned parts flow together.  Having a small (and I do mean SMALL ) drop of clean solder on the tip of the iron helps to transfer the heat a lot faster plus as it goes fast it doesn't heat the whole part.
5. Have some way to clamp at least some of the parts solidly in place.  A piece of thin steel and a couple of small but strong magnets can do a lot.
6. The last one here, a black dirty tip on your soldering iron will almost never put enough heat to anything to make solder flow.  The small drop of clean solder wrapped around the tip will do the job in seconds.

Here is a repost of the page I did showing the soldered together cockpit from the Hannover.  (The rest is on page 52 of this build)

Hope this sheds a little light on a sometimes difficult process.  I did electronics prototyping for over 10 years. Had LOTS of practice.

Hey GREG!

Ummm shouldn't you maybe edit the DATE? now that things have kind of moved back into high gear after the Holiday Hiatus? 

So glad to see this thread go "full tilt boogie" again.  It HAS been a while.  Been doing my after holiday "clean up the house" ( hmm more like STY ) Should be back in build swing again though this weekend.  WooHoo!

Ernest that looks great.  

I can't remember the last time i said this but...  page 1 has been update!  WOOHOO!

I have to agree with Marc - some amazing work on display here. That tank is mind-blowing! Nice work Ernest!

...and it's great to see it still running. Looks like I'll get the chance to finish up that 1/32 SE.5, and throw in another build (Eduard's 1/48 SPAD XIII with Frank Luke's markings would be a fun build). Thanks to all that kept this GB goin' ! Winter is definitely upon us up here, and modeling season will be in full bloom.

I was thinking about this kit, just picked it up a few months back when it was released - a 1/48 Ford Ambulance

Yeah man, jump back in.  What are you thinking about doing?

Those whippet details looks fantastic!  Hey, if this is the GB part 2, I'm going to jump back in too in a while.

HEY... what's going on in here?  Looks busier than when it was "running"  And some damn fine work being done too.

I guess it's time to make a an official decree...

Mankind has had an affliction with waging war.  It likley started as soon as we "stood up" and wil likely contunie until the end f time (sorry, no hope for a Star Trek like society in my opinion), then so too shall the The group build to end all group builds - THE GREAT WAR continue. 

So keep building and posting.  I  will be starting a WNW FE2b in the near future so I will even be contributing.

That looks pretty neat. I've got an Emher MKV and am looking for an excuse not to build it - they sound like Eastern European modeling at its best. Whippet is sweet but still don't get why there's no 35 scale Renault BT out there - easily the most important tank of the war.

I've got a Dremel and haven't been as successful as I'd like to find things to do with it. What kind of tool did you use to drill through a brass screw?

Eric

Well guys, here's an update on the Emhar Mk.IV Whippet tank that I started in October:

In my previous post I had removed all the major components from the sprues, cleaned them up, and gave them a soapy wash. 

The first thing I decided to do before assembly was replace the molded on bolt/nut for the idlers.  The molded on parts just bugged me so I had to improve this area!!   Removing the plastic was relatively easy using a Mission Models 2 MM Micro Chisel.  I then used the same chisel to scrape away the plastic to create a deeper recess for the replacement bolt/nut.  To smooth out the recess I brushed on some Tamiya Extra Thin liquid cement. 

To replace the molded parts I used  some 00-90 size brass screws and nuts that I found at a local hobby store.  I used my Dremel tool to cut the screws down to size, then drilled a suitably sized hole using a pin vise/drill bit.  Because I had to drill at an angle (so as not to damage the recess's surrounding lip) I made sure the hole was ovesized.  Medium ZAP-A-GAP CA glue helped fill the hole when I glued the brass screw/nut in place.

Much better (IMHO!) !!  I mentioned that the molded on engine vents needed to be replaced as well.  I used the Airwaves PE set for this.  Early on I decided that the best way to accomplish this was to assemble each vent off the hull and glue on when complete.  My first attempt was with soldering and this proved to be an utter failure.  I just couldn't get the multiple parts to stay together when the heat was applied!! ARRRGH!! Instead I simply used super thin CA glue and this method was much more successful.  Although not designed correctly, they still offer a vast improvement over the clunky molded on vents.  I also added some small nuts made from salami sliced hex styrene rod (.05 dia).  When done I decided to glue the vents on after the main hull assembly was done.

The next step was to glue the hull parts together.  smeagol was spot on when he advised CAUTION when lining up all the panels and gluing together!!  The lower hull wasn't a problem , but for the upper hull and crew compartment it took several atttempts to get everything lined up and even then there were still some decent sized gaps that I had to fill.  Overall though, the hull assembled relatively easy.  I used styrene strip rod to fill in all the major gaps and Mr. Surfacer 500 for smaller gaps.  Instead of sanding these Mr. 500 filled areas smooth I used an cotton swab dipped in 90% alcohol to remove excess filler. 

When dry I installed the inner sponson plates, followed by gluing on the PE engine vents.  Then I assembled the fuel tank assembly, which turns out is the "nose" of the tank!  Here the gaps we just too big to fill.  Time for some scratchbuilding;  turns out the kit's lower plate assembly for the fuel tank is just designed poorly so I made a new lower plate from sheet stryrene and Grandt Line rivets.  

After making sure the fuel tank assembly would fit ont the hull correctly, I turned my attention to the suspension/track area.  I finally busted open the Model Cellar's indy tracks and read the instructions.  WHOA!!I  It was a good thing I did this BEFORE installing the outer sponsons because it turns out that you are instructed to add a "lip" to the insidesof the sponsons all round the perimeter so that the track will fit properly.  I won't bore you with details other than I had to glue 5mm x 4mm styrene rod all around as instructed.  Although somewhat tedious I can see why this neede to be done, else the tracks would drop too much  into the sponson causing the track links to rub agains the sponson plates.

That's it for now, I'll post more updates tomorrow!

Thanks for the update Paul!  I didn't know wing_nut had extended the end time a bit.  If so I'll keep posting here.

Its getting late so I'll post my update tomorrow!

BTW, I checked out your posts in the "Hunting After Dark.." GB.  Sweet stuff dude!!

As to the planned ending time, I believe that it has been extended (messaged WingNut about a week or so ago)  I am still planning on doing some more work on the Hannover, but had to stop for a bit and just build a kit.  The scratchin was starting to drag and I have not actually built a kit in about 20 years.  Needed something to just put together and needed to do some practice with my new airbrush. (been 20 years for that too!) (decal application etc.)  The building has always been the known quantity here for me.

If you want to see my first post on the current project you can do so at the "Hunting after Dark Night Fighter GB" [ here ].  Will get back on to doing the Hannover once it is done and it is coming along quite nicely.

Just to keep things going a little, I will show you some of what I got done and the paint booth.  Just a little teaser!  

Sorry, but that's it for now.  I need to be able to do some painting and other detail work on the fuselage and interior before I can really finish up the engine.  (Sigh! It never seems to end with this kit does it    )

Anyway, I hope everyone had a wonderful New Year's and now I will have to go back to work starting tomarrow.  Had to do some tweak and cleaning work on my old PC this weekend.  Built it in 2003.  Still cranks right along, but am needing to do a memory upgrade.  The 1 gig it has is a little tight. Matched up some new memory today so that (hopefully) it will be compatible and will be able to add another gig.  Am needing the extra so I can keep doing these detailed posts.  HA!  It has been super reliable, but just am not able to afford to build a new one at this time.  Cutting edge gaming machines do cost, but if done right they last and last.