The Official 1943 70th Anniversary Group Build

No P-51D's in that camo, or any real camo, most were in natural aluminum with some anti-glare panels or unit or invastion stripes. Best bet would be a P-51A, but by that time the RAF was wearing the temperate gray scheme. Sorry for the bad news, but many other types wore the desert camo.

I made some more progress on the cobra:

I started filling and sanding the fuselage join (this will need a lot of rescribing, so I will need your help).

I've also added some stuff to the cockpit. Just put the belts on the seat and added some other small stuff.

Stabilizers are on as well. now it starts looking like a Airacobra.

Eric, do you know of a P-51D painted in this camo pattern?

I just ordered Tamiya's P-51B from Hannants together with their Birdcage corsair (for the carrier GB). both in 1/48.

I'd like to put the Mustang in here too, but i want to make it in that nice tan/brown camouflage.(prefered USAAF, but RAF isn't that bad either, just the camo) 

Cheers, Clemens

Thank you Eric for explaining all that stuff.

I already got a headache of just reading about all that colors

I'll just paint her OD... I think I'll try to achieve a similar color as Joe did on his Lightning here.

Cheers, Clemens

Colors can drive you bats. I was just looking into the issue of Rooskie paints and depending upon which site you look for, the main green (AMT-4) used on Soviet fighters until 1944 (many then moved to a blue gray combo - very neat) is somewhere between Tamiya XF-58 and XF-5. If the FS #s given are right, there isn't a genuinely correct color among the paints. And to boot Rooskie paints, although called matte (AMT - M stands for matte) they came to the field satin and weathered into matte: wonder how many planes in the VVS ever lasted long enough to weather. So I guess almost any kind of forest or olive/green would work - or even something lighter in the standard black/green camo. (Another good site with most Soviet colors is mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/.../1941-43.html - includes the FS equivalents.)

The Soviets got 4500 P-39s via Lend Lease, the vast majority directly from the Bell plant. The standard P-39 had a white disc on the side in which the US insignia would go: the Rooskies wanted the red star and had to deal with the white disc in dozens of ways. One of the planes Schatten displayed (on top) must have been painted AMT-4 - you can see the blue disc where the white one would have been. The one on the bottom is OD with the disc blotched out with AMT-4.  The Soviets got a few hundred planes either directly from the RAF or redirected from the RAF. I wonder if the top plane shown might be a plane Bell painted for the Brits (with the disc to be filled with RAF markings) colored British green: it's possible anyway.

I'm going to be dealing with OD on my next project and I had forgotten what a tough nut that one is. I've got very good color samples from "USAAF Camouflage and Markings 1940-45" by Robert Archer. Even armor guru Steve Zaloga who has disappointed US armor builders by insisting that with very few exceptions in North Africa (and hence into Sicily) that all US AFVs were OD. Zaloga recommends Tamiya XF-62 for a AFV base color. Trouble is that US aircraft were darker. If Archer is right US armor closer to Vallejo Model Air Olive Drab and US planes to Vallejo Model Color OD. But none of them are really right if Archer is right and judging from color photos I think he is. OD is not a green and Tamiya certainly leans that way. OD was made by combining ocher and black: the green is "fugitive." I've done some batches from primes but have found you can get very close by mixing Vallejo OD with Vallejo Khaki. Probably be lots of ways to do it. (I once just mixed black testors enamel with yellow and got a pretty good color a couple years back.) But anyway, definitely want to think more of a brown than a green. I think the color record is quite clear on that for either planes or AFVs. I'll post some stuff when I get my work going.

If you want to check out a Med US air base, YouTube has a copy of the classic documentary (in color, and good color) "Thunderbolt" by William Wyler. The squadron the film is based on is stationed on an island just off the Italian coast. Their neighbor squadron is Free French flying P-39s. An extraordinary show. You can see why European civilians did not always like allied fighter bombers and why the Germans hated them.

Eric

Thank you for the info, but i've already picked the machine i want to replicate...

And that one is olive drab/neutral grey. I posted a pic of it too

Cheers, Clemens

The Soviet P-39s came from the Brittish correct? That would mean they were delivered in Ocean gray/dark green over Medium Sea Gray? I'm not sure how many were actually re-painted. I know alot remained in the British colors. Another good web ref. is sovietwarplanes.com.

Then I'll built the top one, Budd (I myself can't decide anyways)

Clemens

Red stars? I approve.

I like the top one better myself. Dunno why.

-Budd

Thank you for the link, Eric!

ithink there is no need ad swapping them, as there is only little damage visible, once the doors and canopy are on. And I can hide that with a little folded map (maybe with a little coffe-ring too), as i wanted to throw something like thins in anyway. I'll try to get something to put onto the seat as well (just for looks)

After looking at the pictures, i have chosen the plane that I will display (well, almost)

It will be one of those two:

What do you think, guys?

Cheers, Clemens

For Soviet colors there's an article about their P-39s on a website that has retreated but still has some good stuff. Soviet colors are not an easy subject, especially with lend lease planes:

vvs.hobbyvista.com/.../color_mark_1.php

IPMS Stockholm has a color chart for major air forces. For good Rooskie color combos I'd check the Eduard site. They have all of the instructions for all their kits available for inspection in color: they did a P39N in Rooskie attire, but also check their LA-7. (As noted, the P-39 often got a different treatment because the Soviets saw no reason to completely paint an already painted plane. Actually might make for some very interesting scheme: check the hobbyvista.

Schatten: I know my share of WWII factoids because I taught and wrote military history (WWII and Vietnam) for thirty years. (My last work was about air combat in the South Pacific.) I did a lot of oral history and consequently talked to a lot of people. Even a plodder like yours truly will learn a little if you get paid for it long enough.

Eric

maybe you can switch them around and use the damaged one for the flying diorama you were talking about, and use the ok one for the ground display.

Just about all the painting is done, as are about 90 percent of the decals at this point, I don't know how you all do them, but I like to pace myself and only do a couple of decals at a time, that way I make sure that I don't mess up the ones I've just put down when I do the next one.

I'll post a couple of pics when I finish the last few decals, not much to see right now.

Clemens, what you accomplished looks good.  Your paintwork is certainly impressive.

As for the malfunction, maybe you can salvage this one by closing up the cockpit, and doing a second one with the doors open.  At least, this one wouldn't be a waste, and you really can't see much through a close cockpit, anyway.  It's always a shame to discard or give up on a basically solid build, just because one thing goes wrong.

But--I do know the feeling.

Good luck to you.

If someone of you fellas could post some pictures of an airfield in the MTO back then and maybe a link to a good pilot figure (USAAF), it would help me a lot with my second Cobra.

Thank you all in advance...

Hi Budd,

Sadly i can't paint over it. When I tried to get the broken IP back in, i had to split the fuse open again. When i closed it the molten plastic got into the cockpit and created the mess you can see on the pictures.

Do you guys think it's still good enough to leave the left door open? (I wanted to close the right one anyways)

I thought about throwing a folded map oin near the pilot's seat to hide the damage that can be seen on the IP...

What do you think?

As for the Markings of the snake: It seems to get russian then...

What colors do i need for a russian plane (i guess it'll be neutral grey and olive drab?)

I just need to find me some stars then (i think 4 should be enough)

Btw, I glued the wings on already, and they went on much better than I would have expected with all the issiues I had with a fuse.

Cheers, Clemens

Front page update!

Welcome aboard, Clemens! I admit, I have an odd fascination with the P-39. And as far as lend-lease goes, as Eric said, the Soviets loved them! And all you have to do for one of those is slap a couple of Red Stars on.

That being said, looks like you have done some good work! The cockpit looks good to me too, I can't see any obvious damage. Is it bad enough that you can't paint over it?

Bill- I really like your little build there! The whole thing is genius, and it's great when people can model something based on an actual photgraph. Great work all around!

-Budd

I can't explain it either, Bish. i tried it with the plastic IP before glueing this in, and it DID fit! Ít's really strange. I even compared the PE from the second model (the one I haven't started) and it is really a little bit bigger.

The damage is on the right side of the cockpit mostly, as you said already, but also around the instrument panel (you can`t see it that well, but it's danmaged). Is there any way of saving this, as i wanted to display it with a least one door open? I want to build one of them in flight and the other one on the ground with open door(s). If its NOT possible to save the look of it, Ì'll just buy a pilot figure, put it into the cockpit and close both doors (and build the other one parked)

Btw: I just wanted to build something else after this and just took the nearest kit that was lying around (Eduard's Hellcat, same scale) and here is what i came up with:

I had no problems with this kit at all other than the large gap on the engine cowling (this was my fault, i believe). It's a lovely plane to build and it'll get some color, as soon as my Quickboost engine for it arrives (in about 1 week). I had no problems with the PE either and i used all of it.

I really can't explain, why i screwed up the cobra so horrible...

I think the Hellcat turned out quiet nicely.

Cheers, Clemens

 EDIT: I just saw the fine dust in the cockpit (from the sanding i had to do) and removed it with my airbrush (only air). And yes, I know, it doesnt fit the GB (no WIP pics, wrong subject as I'll build one that flew in the year 19444,...) but I had to put it in here, to show at least something that went the way i planned it....

Now thats really odd. As the PE was designed for this kit, it should have fit just fine and not needed any trimming. Maybe its just be, but i am not see much damage to the cockpit floor. Is it the area on the right hand side of the floor.

Hi guys

I promised you an update and some pics today, so here it is:

I airbrushed the cockpit with Gunze's interior green and washed it all with some burnt umber oil paint.

Then followed some detailing with black paint.

All went on great to this stage, but then i made a fatal mistake: When glueing the cockpit in between the fuse halves, the PE-instrument panel broke, because it was too broad. When i tried to glue it in a little bit later, i destroyed most of the floor in the cockpit. So as you can see in the pictures i took, the cockpit floor looks awful now

Im reaaly disappointed with my work now, but have a look yourself:

It just makes me sad when such things happen and I hope you guys can help me to fix this accident at least a little bit (I thought on putting something into the cockpit that covers the damaged spots, but what could that be?)

I still have to add the seatbelts and some smaller parts and PE, but i wont go on with this until I (or someone of you) find a solution for this "problem" (more likely lack of skill, I'm afraid).

I hope to hear from you soon, Clemens

Looking good, Bill.

Some really creative work, man.

I'm making progress too :

The wings are now completely finished and the cockpit is ready for some paint!

To-do list for this weekend:

• Paint the cockpit and the inside of the fuselage halves
• Glue all of that together (Problems nearly solved!)
• Join the wings and the fuse
• Get rid of any seams and gaps
• Maybe i get to glue the canopy on too and mask everything

I've also finished the instrument panel by now, which consists only of PE-parts (very fiddly).

I'll post some pics when the cockpit is finished.

In case you wonder whats with the other little snake: I have something special planned for it which includes a clear styrene rod, a pilot figure, a wooden base and a piece of runway as terrain... Some guesses on my plans with it?

Anyways, if someone if you fellas has some pics of an airfield in Algeria back then, please post them here.

Cheers, Clemens

Sorry about the lack of WIP pics. Camera issues and time constraints were befuddling my attempts to comply with GB rules. My contribution to the GB is a Dual .50 cal Trailer Mounted AA (Kitbash / Scratchbiuld). This .50 cal AA does not represent any actual trailer mounted units made for the military. It does, however, closely resemble one that I saw pictured which had been cobbled together by the soldiers that used it. I had purchased a damaged 1/32 scale New-Ray brand "model" Half-track, toy really, from Hobby Lobby's clearance shelf and gutted it for parts. It came with a quad .50 cal mounted in back so most of what you see is from there.

 Here's what little I have for WIP pics:

This 1st one is what remains of the Halftrack model / toy that started it all (after stripping it of all I needed). 

 

Alright, so far so good. I'll be posting pics of the completed trailer and accompanying story soon. Stay tuned........

Completed model of Custom Dual .50 cal AA Trailer

By mid-war the US military machine had gone Model Number Crazy.

If you had a Maxon 45 gun turret, which was comprised of 4 Browning M2 .50 cal machine guns,

and mounted it on a M17 trailer it became the M51 Quad .50 AA trailer mount gun:

likewise in the event it was a Maxon 45 mounted on the single axle M20 trailer it became the M55:

how about that M16?:

My model sort of thumbs it's nose at the whole numbering scheme.  What if your AA unit has become cut off from most support and widely dispersed and the very enemy that you're out there to shoot down manages to score a direct hit on your halftrack, paralyzing it but leaving your Maxon M45 Quad .50 relatively intact (minus two guns due to bent barrels)? Well, with access to some salvaged scrap, cutting torch, a little welding knowledge and some ingenuity, you could come up with something like this: 

                         Custom Dual .50 cal AA trailer                  

Good luck sticking a model number on that, Uncle Sam (although, if brass knew about it, they'd insist it got one). 

Not really a far fetched story at all. It was very common for many a mechanized units to resort to such improvisations.

To finish my model, I used a water thinned wash of dollar store artist's black craft acrylic mixed with a dab of Tamiya cockpit green followed by dry brushing with a mix of Testors flat steel and Model Master olive enamels. The much-too-shiny pretty tires received a treatment of Testors flat tan enamel, which I then scraped and rubbed until they looked like hell.

I feel it turned out fairly nice. A lot of fun and really cheap. I think one day I'll work it into a diorama. 

And, I look forward to all comments and critique. 

One question Eric: How do you know all of that? Anyways, its great to get so much information on all the planes I like, without even asking!

I'm making some progress on the first of the two flying snakes. I assempled the cockpit and the Wings. I hope to get some pics up tomorrow. However, i hade a hard time glueing the wing halves together... the fit on the left wing was okay, but the one on the left was terrible (the top half was protruding nearly 1/4th of a millimeter). After some excessive sanding (about 2 hrs )with various sanding sticks i got the wings nice and smooth on the join lines. But there's still a slight step on the left wing. I came to the conclusion that simple sanding wont cut it here. Any tipps?

Oh, and i have to rescribe some panel lines on the forward wing edge. How schould i do that?

I'm sorry for all the stupid questions, but this only my second plane model (first one was Tamiya's Thunderbolt, so no fitting problems there)

Please help me.

Cheers, Clemens

No argument there. To put it mildly,  it came as a rude shock to the LW to know that by late 43 the USAAF Jugs were getting the better of German fighters. It was a much better plane at that stage than the 38 was, and remained very dangerous any time it could get to the battlefield. Think about it: not only did it have 8 mgs, but it could always dive out if given the least warning - a hard plane to fight. In late 44 a bunch of US pilots, test pilots and engineers did a "fly off" that included all US piston planes including the Tigercat and Bearcat prototypes. The P-47 was judged the best plane at very high altitude and the P-51 at 25,000 feet. It was great fun talking to the old pilots and many were fiercely loyal to their steeds. (Jug pilots called the 51 "Spam Can." One 51 jockey referred to "our other fighter, the ugly big one"). But 51 pilots were the most fanatical. Could be because they did less ground support. The allied armies absolutely loved aircraft and the big US fighters, almost by accident, proved good at providing it. (It's sobering that not one US fighter except the P39 was designed for ground support. The fighter bomber was a brilliant expedient that was pioneered, ironically, by the BF109.) The Brits designed two planes for the job. But it was dangerous business. I think 51 pilots got the girls because more of the them lived to chase them. But inline engine and all, the 51 was a tough plane too and did a lot of ground support in WWII and more  in Korea.

Eric

One thing is for certain, the P-47 did alot of the heavy lifting in '43, despite its shorter range. And sadly, I believe Gunther Rall passed away a year or two ago.

@EBergerud: Thanks for all  the information.

There are 6 different Marking options in the Eduard kit. 3 american Cobras, 2 french ones and 1 for the Italian air force.

But as they were all used in 1944 i wont use them for this GB

About my signature: I never said that the Mustang was a bad plane, I just like the Jug and its durability more than the P-51 (I love the sluggish, unelegant look of that plane). Btw, I just read that quote somewhere in the Interwebnet and iI liked it, because it sums up, why many pilots of the Jug liked it. So i just took it as my signature

And heres a link I found yesterday: http://www.chuckhawks.com/p47.htm

Clemens

In the lower half, a WWII fighter pilot who flew both planes (if I'm not mistaken) sums up in 12 short ponts, why he liked the Thunderbolt more than the Mustang.

OH: I'd take issue with the tagline after hearing dozens of arguments between old pony and jug jockies a few years back. The P-47 was a fine plane, but as the RAF's top ace Johnny Johnson commented after the war the P-51 was unquestionably the best offensive fighter of the war because it could take it's formidable attributes to battlefields no other fighter could reach. The biggest fighter engagement in history was fought over Europe between January 1944 - September 1944 and the P-51s murdered the Luftwaffe. The scores put up by the elite 51 Fighter Groups in 8th AF are extremely impressive. It wasn't until the breakout from Normandy allowed advanced European bases that the RAF - with all those wonderful late mark Sptfires - was able to get back into fighting what was left of Germany's fighter arm. It's true the Wolfpack kept its Jugs and ended up finishing as the second highest scoring US FG of the war but that was due to its big score in 1943 before Mustangs arrived. One of the duties held by Gunther Rall, Luftwaffe uber-ace (who I think is still alive), was to manage the large German horde of captured allied aircraft of almost all types. He thought the P-51 was the best of the lot. I interviewed a Navy Corsair jockey who flew a P-51 in Korea and he admitted it was better than anything the Navy had. Whatever the Jugs attributes, there was a reason why Mustangs stayed in service throughout the Korean War when other piston planes of the Army were withdrawn - above all it's fantastic range. Although I think the longest serving WWII US combat plane was the Avenger which was doing anti-sub patrols for front line units until the early 60s.

If you're building two 39s, does Eduard provide markings for Lend Lease planes? The P39 had poor range and performance over 12,000 feet so was used mostly for ground support in the Med with Reverse Lend Lease Spitfire Vs, early P-38s (a problem child still) and P-40s playing the air superiority role. (P-47s were going to England and 8th AF at this time.) The Germans had pretty well lost the tactical air war by Sicily so everyone was doing a lot of ground attack and the 39 worked well for that mission. Anyway, the Free French received several hundred P-39s and when Italy switched sides the air units that fought for the allies adopted it too. That's a pity because if the parts had been available, the "good guy" Italians would have flown Macchi 205s - but only a handful were used. The "bad guy" Italian units used some but they were getting BF-109s, so one of the war's fine airplanes didn't see much action and thus is hard to model.

The Rooskies had a low altitude war and did extremely well with the 39 in 1943-44. German FWs had taken to using the head on pass against Russian fighters - that was a dangerous game against a 37mm canon. And the .303 MGs, which were a liability in a dog fight, were very good indeed for strafing. Anyway, might be neat to see a Free French plane. Heaven knows how many countries had air forces during WWII, but they rarely get modeled. I've got a P-36 Hawk and think it has 1940 French markings and I'll use if it does.

Eric  

Ok fellas,

I just opened the box for the first time and its content is pretty impressive!

The kit consists of 4 sprues for each cobra (3 in olive-green plastic and 1 with the clear parts)

As with all Profi Packs and Limited Edition kits from eduard, theres a lot of nice painted and unpainted PE already included in the kit :

And the most unexpected thing for me: They even included a nose weight for each cobra to prevent tail-sitting!

I couldn't resisist it and cut the main parts for the wings and the fuselage out of the sprues and taped them together

The fit of the parts is not perfect, but its average, so no need for complaints here.

I haven't cleaned up the mold lines up at all, so the fit can (and will probably) get better.

Nuff said, here's a pic:

I know the quality of the pics isn't overwhelming, I'm taking all pictures at my desk atm (I have to find a better place with good light conditions)

Clemens signing out

Welcome to the GB Clemens, be prepaired to get hooked. As long as you post progress piucs and meet the deadline, you can't go far wrong with GB's.

Nice work Bill.

Oooohhh, love me an Airacrobra. Nice start too Bill.

sub revolution

He's actually almost done with it. He messaged on the side asking if he could still submit it, and I said ok as long as he includes WIP photos and a build review.

Welcome, Bill!

Thanks SUB,

Sorry about the lack of WIP pics. Camera issues and time constraints were befuddling my attempts to comply with GB rules. My contribution to the GB is a Dual .50 cal Trailer Mounted AA (Kitbash / Scratchbiuld). This .50 cal AA does not represent any actual trailer mounted units made for the military. It does, however, closely resemble one that I saw pictured which had been cobbled together by the soldiers that used it. I had purchased a damaged 1/32 scale New-Ray brand "model" Half-track, toy really, from Hobby Lobby's clearance shelf and gutted it for parts. It came with a quad .50 cal mounted in back so most of what you see is from there.

 Here's what little I have for WIP pics:

This 1st one is what remains of the Halftrack model / toy that started it all (after stripping it of all I needed). 

 

Alright, so far so good. I'll be posting pics of the completed trailer and accompanying story soon. Stay tuned........