Fw 190 Butcher Bird 2013 (extended to June 2014) Group Build

As i understand it, all these different kits Eduard come out with, Weekend, Royal, Profipack etc are the same kits with different extras. But i am suprised such a high price kit would have this many issues. This is the sort of thing you would extra from a small company making Ltd Run kits.

Nathan T

What are you saying Mustang? The fuselage is still warped a bit? Hey I'll get them scans to you tomorrow, been down with the dang flu/sinus infection the past week and been too down in the dumps to model much.

 Thank you in advance for the pics. Getting ready to build that area of the plane after I get this fit issue worked out...............and I will. Take care Nathan.

Bish

Mustang, i will deffinatly get some of those. Are they still in print, i found a couple from their series on Amazon that were going for silly money. Sounds like your haveing a tough time with this one.

It is the Eduard Royal Class kit your having issues with isn't it

Yeah its the Royal Class kit thats giving me all of this grief however its the same mold as the weekend edition. I couldn't turn back on the fuselage and start over simply because there's just too darn much work put into the fuselage. Hate to give progress up. Found a potential problem area this morning so am working on fixing it. Cross your fingers!!!!!!!!

stoutfella, thats looking sweet. I was the same before doing my first mottle a couple of years ago, an Me 262. And like you i was pretty pleased with the results.

72nd is all i am really used to, haven't been doing it since i started modelling. When i am handling a kit like a 190, it may be quite small in my hands, but it just feels right. When i came back to the hobby 5 years ago, after only a 5 years break, i did notice my eyes were aching trying to focus on detail, which they hadn't before. But i got an optivisor and that was one of the best tools i have ever bought. I think when i finally get round to a 32nd build, my brain is going to go into over load.

What was the problem you had with spraying future.

Joe, i noticed that the sight mount was off set when i fitted the PE piece. If it wasn't for that, i would probably have fitted it wrong. Those quickboost sets do look rather nice, i got both sets of German sights while i was at it. They do look pretty small so going to have to be careful i don't lose one.

Eric, i do like that scheme myself. The other 3 on there are all A-5's, but i got it as i was drawn to the checkboard nose.

Mustang, i will deffinatly get some of those. Are they still in print, i found a couple from their series on Amazon that were going for silly money. Sounds like your haveing a tough time with this one.

It is the Eduard Royal Class kit your having issues with isn't it.

What are you saying Mustang? The fuselage is still warped a bit? Hey I'll get them scans to you tomorrow, been down with the dang flu/sinus infection the past week and been too down in the dumps to model much.

Man, Joe, That sucker is just fighting you every step of the way. I hope stepping away leads you to an epiphany of a solution.

Bish

don't have any Aero detail books, i will have to look into that

Yes you do Bish. The Aero Detail series is always my first pic when I'm building stuff, That is if AD has one for the model I'm building. Always go with an AD. Lots and lots of useful information particularly on the more famous birds. I was a little surprised at the 190 A/F book not have as much info as say a 109 book but its still up there in the info department.

Great work Stoutfella. I'm like you. I'm dreading the mottle but have a couple of ideas in store for it. I'm going to try it free hand first and see what I come up with on a spare 190. Your mottle job looks like one of the pros did it though!

Still having some fit issues. Re-test fit the fuselage to the wing assy and have some problems as far as the fuselage is offset roughly 1 mm which shows bad! I just put it down this morning after I saw that. Not giving up or nothing just giving my thinking cap time to warm up(It should be there as much as I've had to wear it with this ***!) Metal MG151 gun barrels are awesome. Look like they belong there. Will have an update tomorrow morning hopefully with good results!!!!!!!!!!!

Jester and Nathan: I just eyeball the mix. I suppose I end up in the 2-1 or 3-1 neighborhood of thinner to paint. I've had some previous successes with the MM thinner, but I've had lots of either failures or situations where I ended up OK, but always felt like disaster was just around the corner. I would often start out just fine, but within a few minutes, the brush would start to clog and spit. If I stopped and thinned more, I'd often end up with the watery runs (so to speak). The paint dries really fast with the alcohol, which seems to work  better for me, and the paint seems to hold together better. The finish does seem a little more delicate, at least with Tamiya. Still very much a learning experience, but painting becomes my favorite part of the hobby when I'm not battling the airbrush.

Nice work Stout. Good mottling for your first try. I have the Iwata HP-CS and don't worry- That brush is capable of all sorts of fine work/mottling. The rest is up to the user and the paint, and MM acrylics are a tough sell. Looks like you found a happy ratio with them. I used them once for Luftwaffe mottle on a 1 48 Ju88, and with all the tip clog and spattering, I took me 3 freakin hours. I then switched to Gunze and never looked back. Your upper wing camo looks good for early 190 schemes, nice, soft edge but no overspray.

Bish- You guys amaze me with your detail in 72nd!!! I really like the scheme you have picked up, looking forward to seeing that checkerboard on the nose!!

Wow Stout, that is looking very sweet!! I think the preshading is perfect and so is the mottle!!! This GB will also be my first mottle camo scheme and I also have been having difficulty with MM acrylics using their brand of thinner. Will definitely pick up some 91% alcohol tomorrow!! What kind of ratio's are you using with the MM acrylics??

Bish - Yes indeed, that is exactly what I am referring to. I do believe you will be quite happy you ordered the quickboost sights. I'm not saying they're easy to work with but, they will look good. Thanks to studying my reference material prior to carving an opening in the forward cockpit shroud for the gun sight I found that the sight is actually off set to the right side of the cockpit/pilot.

Stoufella - An absolutely outstanding effort on your part. That camo and the preshade turned out awesome. Yeah, I too harbor an inner fear of attempting mottling freehand but, I will finally succumb someday.  

Greetings,

I've gotten most of my painting done on the Tamiya A3. Started with what I thought was some fairly light preshading.

After the preshade, I sprayed MM acrylic RLM 76 on the underside and fuselage sides. In my neverending struggle to find the right paint mix, I thinned it way out with MM's acrylic thinner. Even at low pressure, it was on the verge of watery, but I was able to build up the color VERY gradually, which I think ultimately served me well in controlling how much of the preshade came through. I think I got it about right.

Next, I moved along to RLM 75 on the wings, fuselage spine and sides. This time, the mix was just too thin and runny, and I was getting sick of messing around trying to find exactly the right proportions. I've recently had great luck mixing Tamiya paint with 91 percent alcohol, but hadn't tried it with the MM acrylics. Slightly desperate and about to quit for the night, I mixed up a bit of the MM with alcohol. Lo and behold, I started getting a nice, smooth spray with no spitting, clogging or running.

I freehanded the 75, but decided to mask the wings and horizontal stabilizers before spraying the RLM 74. I copied the Tamiya template and cut paper masks, holding them a bit off the surface with Silly Putty.

Even with the masks above the surface, I still got a fairly sharp edge on the splinter camo.

I did freehand the fuselage spine and the mottling on the sides. After diving in and spraying the 74, I realized I'd forgotten to mask the canopy, so I hurried up and did a quick tape job, then sprayed the canopy first with RLM 66, then with the RLM 74 I still had mixed.

The painting instructions I've found indicate a fairly light mottle on the sides, so I tried not to overdo it. It's a combination of RLM 74, 75 and a bit of 02. I gotta admit, I've been sweating the mottle painting for months now, anticipating that I'd eventually have to tackle it for the 190s and 109s, but not feeling confident at all in my abilities. No matter how much I practiced on paper or scrap plastic, it never looked quite right and I never felt like I had control over the process. Well, imagine my delight when I hit upon the MM/alcohol combination and I suddenly felt as if I had total control over the airbrush. I know it ain't perfect, but I'll tell ya', for my first shot, I'm pretty darn pleased.

As I've posted previously, I've felt like I've been battling airbrush demons constantly, first with the Paasche Talon, and to some degree with the Iwata HP-CS I got for Christmas. And several people had suggested that the Iwata was great for the broad strokes, but not so good for fine detail work. Well, once I hit the right mix with the paint, I felt like I could do anything with the Iwata. Again, it just seemed like I had total control of the brush, a really nice feeling after so many frustrating battles. I know some paint won't work well with the alcohol mix, but I'm finding that with Tamiya and now MM acrylic, it's a winner.

OK, enough of that. My next challenge with the Iwata will be taking another shot at spraying Future. The one time I tried it with the Paasche, it didn't go well. But I've got a nice smooth surface to start with here, so I may give it another go, after trying it on some scrap, of course.

Jester: Keep at it. My last build was the Revellogram P-38. Talk about fit issues . Looking good, though.

Bish: 1/72? Yeah, I'm impressed. After spending a couple of years doing N scale model railroading, my eyes were happy that I came back to 1/48 aircraft. And I still have to take my glasses off and get real close to do almost anything. I don't expect to get anywhere near 1/72 unless it's a big bomber.

I don't have any Aero detail books, i will have to look into that.

No, there isn't a hole for the gunsight, in fact there isn't a gun site. That part is replaced by PE and there is a PE site as well. But i got those Quickboost resin ones the other day so will use those. By forward sroud, do you mean the bit at the front of the cockpit. If so, again no the kit didn't have thise but the PE part does.

Indeed Bish, I too have the Squadron in actions and the Walk Around yet I got better reference on the guns and the hatches from the Aero Detail book. I highly recommend that for your library if you don't already have it. I forgot to ask you if the Academy kit there already had the hole for the gun sight and for the hand holds in the forward shroud or did you need to drill those out like I have to on the Hase kit?

Thanks Joe. I did get an Eduard PE set for my Hase kit, will have to check if that bit is there. If i remember right, you got a different one to me as i think its now OOP.

My referances just say they were first fitted to the A-8. But that is the Squadron In Action book which are not always the most reliable. And the Walk Around mentions the in board gun stations and not the outboard. I do need to up grade my 190 referance books i think.

Thnaks Nathan. I am all for accuracy, but sometimes its a balance. If i don't think i am able to achieve accuracy with decent results, i would rather leave it be.

Just fitted the wings onto the fuselage and come across the first fit issue. Theres a bit of a gapr on top of the wings where they join the fuselage and its more prominate on one saide than the other. But nothing a little filler hasn't sorted out.

Jester - Nice start indeed. You know I had sort of the same initial reaction on my cowling gun cover but after I studied my references I saw that the initial fit on the kit was indeed correct.

Bish - Very, very, nice work. The PE set for your Academy is really sweet. In fact, I ordered that set today simply to get the rear deck detail piece and hope I can fit it to my Hasegawa kit. The PE set for the Hasegawa kit does not include that part. As far as those "gun covers" go on the Hasegawa kit they are separate pieces that are to be added for the F-8. It is apparent to me that they are to be omitted if one is building an early A-8. I studied my reference materials prior to installing them to ensure that they were indeed correct. It appears that they were prevalent on late A-8s and F-8s. it seemed odd to me that they remained on the F-8 as the outboard mg 151 was removed on them.  

Your basically right on the wing guns Bish. With the exception of the Sturmbocks of course. Ill check my refs when I get home, but I'm thinking its to accomodate extra ammo. I'm not advocating you remove them, just curious myself to find out. And nice work on assembly. I too think the radio hatch hinges are too pronounced, and should look more flush with the fuselage.

nathan, i'm not to sure. The books i have don't give a reason for them. The A-6, A-7 and A-8 all had the same wing guns, so if it was to accomodate the guns, then i would think all 3 would have them. The Squadron In Action book just describes them as raised access panel. I have a feeling they shouldn't be there, but in this case, i'm happy to live with it.

Joe, thanks. I guess its down to what your used to. After the detail in that Stuka engine, this is a breeze.

Bish-were the upper wing buldges to occomodate extra ammo for the same type of gun?

Jester: I'm tellin ya!! The fit, the fit , the fit. That's what its all about with the Eduard kits!! Good job so far.

Bish: Good progress with that thing!! 1/72 nd scale. Gives me chills thinking about working with that scale!! Nice detail.

Time for my first update. This is the kit i am building.

So far its gone together nicely. The only filler is where i over trimmed the front of the cockpit.

The only kit part in the part are the control column and seat, the latter stilkl to be fitted. All the rest is Eduard PE. This is the coloured set so i can't take any credit for it.

The cockpit is inserted into the joined fuselage from underneath. I have to check some more referance pics, but this little buldges around the access panel on the left don't appear to be there on any photo's i have seen so far, so they may need removing. I also need to removed the gun barrels in the fuselage, they are being replaced with metal ones.

While the kit allows you to build both an A-6 and A-8. But its clearly aimed at an A-8 and there are a couple of issues with building an A-6. There's only one decal option, and that's for an 8. The pitot is molded with the wing at the end of the right wing. But this is wrong for a 6, it should be further in. But this is easy to remedy. The main issue is the buldges on toip of the wings. Both A-6 and A-8 had 2 MG 151's in each wing. But from what i can gather, the outer buldges were only introduced on the A-8, which seems odd if they had the same guns. But i have seen some built models of A-6's with these outer buldges. So, because i am not 100% certain, and because to remove them might do more harm than good, i have decided to leave them on. If its wrong, its wrong.

The aircraft i am building is White 5, the top one of this set.

Wings should be on soon, this is coming along quicker than my last build. 

Good lookin build so far. My wife always geet a kick out of "fit issues" She asks why I keep building when I get so upset. Well... no comment! lol..Keep up the great work Jester.

Nice work Jester. Just remember the MG cowl was not a perfect fit in the real world. If it seems really narrow just add a spreader bar inside it. For the exhaust inserts and engine bulkhead, I don't glue those in. Just let them kinda float inside the fuselage and they will find their own fit as you close up the fuselage.

Ok, proof that I am actually participating in this group build. Still not finished with the little recon panzer but waiting on parts so.....

Lots and lots and lots of fitting on this thing especially in the mg cowl area. Also, the exhaust inserts and engine plate are a really really tight fit between the fuse halves and is going to have to be sanded a bit.

I was concerned that the rear of the mg cover was a bit to narrow but it appears there are some longitudinal strips right beneath that make it look like its a bit narrow. Pay no mind to the wash drying in the pit. It will be cleaned up a lot a bit later. This is going to be an interesting build

Thanks guys,there is only a dollar difference so I mignht go with the CMK due to so many extras. But I will look into the MDC one!

In my experience, Aires tops CMK stuff. Sometimes its cheaper too. But if you really want a good resin fw190 pit, you have to go with the MDC one.

wjt, i haven't used either of those sets. I do have a couple of True details pis and some CMK stuff, and both look very nice. If it was me, given the price differance and the amount of things you get with both sets, i would go for the CMK.

Theres also the Aires set and that seems to have the same items as the CMK minus the canopy.