troublemaker66

Hey guys, I`ve been lurking around, watching everyone`s progress and it`s all great work! I haven`t been doing much modelling lately because we are finally starting to make progress on rebuilding. Almost an entire year has gone by and alot of us are just beginning now...disgraceful. Jimbo, I think those "do-dads" are counterweights for the control surfaces...no hydraulics on that dinosaur..lol. Keep up the good work...I`m watching.....

Hi, Len,

Great to hear your house is on the road to recovery - finally! Hang in there.

Russ

Hi Everyone,

Well after washing the cockpit in Bleche-Wite and rinsing it thoroughly followed by blowing it dry using compressed air, I was ready to start applying the base color.

So what is the base color of a F-84E cockpit you may ask?  Good question!  As it turns out, there is some debate on this (go figure!).

According to several sources, Republic's "Interior Green" was a darker shade than the typical Interior Green.  One book says that it was more "olive" than that of other makers.  Another source claims that it was the same as the Republic P-47, which according to IPMSStockholm.org, was closer to a Dull Dark Green.

So I sent an email late last night to Don asking him if he remembers the color.  If he is home and sees my email in time, I may be able to stop by his house after work with samples of paint color to show him so he can decide.

Ken

Len: It's good to see you back! And nice to see you're getting your house straightened out. Please keep dropping by to say hello even if you're not in a situation to build anything.

Thanks everyone! I have been building slightly...my son got into Warhammer 40K. It`s a kind of board game but you have to buy and build all your game pieces..and they ain`t cheap...lol. Tons of 1/48-ish figures to build and paint...I should be an expert at painting figures shortly. I have about 50 to do, plus an armor vehicle and motorcycles. Also have to build "terrain"...rocks and things to hide behind during battle..lol. What the heck did I get myself into...

As for the house, I`m dropping off a check for 20k to the Modular co after work today. We`re looking at having a house up on pilings sometime in December and moving in Jan/ Feb. I cannot wait. The mood around the rental went from desperation to excitement and everyone is chipping in to get the old house ready for demo...maybe in 2 weeks. I also understand fully why people get to the end of their ropes and do desperate things, like show up with a shotgun at an insurance company`s office....

Anyway, thanks for the kind words, and just because I`m not posting doesn`t mean I`m not around...

Len

Len: Good to see you've been busy, it does keep your mind off matters. I swear sometimes dealing with stuff like the insurance company is like pulling hen's teeth.

I've built a few Games Workshop figures for use in D&D and I love the detailing but gee whiz the prices are sky high indeed. If you would post some of your game maps over on the diorama forum- I love seeing stuff like this!  

Hi Everyone,

Well I talked to Don on the phone this evening about the cockpit color.  He said that the F-84G had the darker color, not the F-84E.  (He flew them both!)  But he also added that he would bring the correct color to our monthly IPMS meeting which is this Friday.  I told him I would go ahead and bring the cockpit with me so that I could go ahead and ask him to detail all of the colors I needed.  So I am on hold until after Friday.

But I am also building a SR-71A Blackbird over on the USAF Vietnam GB that I am hosting.  You see, Don James also flew that!  So I will be bringing in the cockpit for it this Friday so he can also give me the correct colors for it as well.

Ken

Wow Ken, sounds like Don flew pretty much anything and everything!

Gamera

Wow Ken, sounds like Don flew pretty much anything and everything!

Actually Cliff, he did fly quite a few.  That reminds me of one of his stories!

He told us about how when he first arrived in Korea, he had already been checked out in the F-86 and that was what he was expecting to be flying.  But after arriving, the base commander called all the new arrivals into a room and asked everyone who had been checked out on the F-84 to step forward.  He said at first no one did.  (Everyone wanted to fly the F-86!)  Then the commander said "I can check your records to find out who can, so you might as well tell me now".  So of course that is when he and the few others stepped forward.  From that point on he was stuck flying the F-84E.

But he said that in a way it was a blessing.  He made it back home from Korea flying the F-84E.  Who knows what might have happened if he had been flying the F-86.

Don also flew the U-2!  He has told us some stories about that too!  Of course only details he is allowed.

Ken

That story reminds me how we were all told in basic training to never volunteer for anything. We were then "voluntold" to police up the parade ground for the colonel's promotion ceremony!

mikeymize

That story reminds me how we were all told in basic training to never volunteer for anything. We were then "voluntold" to police up the parade ground for the colonel's promotion ceremony!

Just shows how when you sign that piece of paper to enlist, you become the "property" of the U.S. government!  I saw a lot of examples of that with my Dad in his twenty years of service.

Ken

Hi Everyone!

We had an extra long local IPMS chapter meeting tonight!

Of course one of the main subjects was Don's F-84E the "Hoosier Hotshot".  It turns out that the base color of the cockpit was zinc chromate yellow!

Model Master makes it in their Acryl line.  I looked it up and showed it to Don and he confirmed that it was the right color.  So of course I do not have "that" color out of the hundreds of bottles and tins of paints on my shelf!  So I ordered it.  It should arrive by the middle of next week.

He also pointed out that the wheel wells and the speed brake were painted the same color.  But the seat and the control stick was painted zinc chromate green.  Now I do have that on my shelf.

While I knew there were going to be moments like this where I would be stuck waiting for one reason or another, I have already pulled out the Testors 1/48 SR-71A Blackbird to work on in between.  I also have a resin aftermarket cockpit for it made by True Details.  I brought that with me to show Don and he did confirm that it was painted with the standard FS 36231 Dark Gull Grey.  That color I "DO" have on my shelf!  So tomorrow I will be spraying a coat of it on!

Ken

Ken

I built one of those SR71 kits awhile ago and remember quite a few fit issues, especially around the windscreen and wing joins, so please test fit on a regular basis...these kits are getting very expensive.

Len

troublemaker66

Ken

I built one of those SR71 kits awhile ago and remember quite a few fit issues, especially around the windscreen and wing joins, so please test fit on a regular basis...these kits are getting very expensive.

Len

Hi Len,

Thank you for the heads up.  I will remember that.  I may ask for your advice on some things as I get more involved with it.

Ken

Ken, just an FYI, Testors does have a "Zinc Chromate" in their Hobby Paint line. You know, the small square bottles?

I couldn't tell you if it is accurate or not, we can't really trust colors as they appear on a computer monitor or what a camera renders it to be. This bottle looks a bit more yellow that what you have here, but without having the real thing in hand, it's hard to judge. Just thought it might be something for you to look into.

Other than that, I have not accomplished very much here. Just got done putting in another 55-60 hour work week over the course of 6 days, add to that time that, I have to take one hour lunches, 1 to1 1/2 hours commuting daily, and it adds up to not much time at home. Most days are 12 or 13 hours from when I leave until I return home. Also having to deal with issues concerning Mom's estate, my own financial issues and so on, hobbies seem to be taking a back seat for right now.

One thing I am kind of stalling on is the Stuka project: That canopy is going to be a nightmare to mask!

Eduard makes a masking set for this kit, but with the way my finances are for the moment, it's out of the budget. Perhaps when I get next weeks paycheck, I'll see.

jimbot58

Ken, just an FYI, Testors does have a "Zinc Chromate" in their Hobby Paint line. You know, the small square bottles?

I couldn't tell you if it is accurate or not, we can't really trust colors as they appear on a computer monitor or what a camera renders it to be. This bottle looks a bit more yellow that what you have here, but without having the real thing in hand, it's hard to judge. Just thought it might be something for you to look into.

Other than that, I have not accomplished very much here. Just got done putting in another 55-60 hour work week over the course of 6 days, add to that time that, I have to take one hour lunches, 1 to1 1/2 hours commuting daily, and it adds up to not much time at home. Most days are 12 or 13 hours from when I leave until I return home. Also having to deal with issues concerning Mom's estate, my own financial issues and so on, hobbies seem to be taking a back seat for right now.

One thing I am kind of stalling on is the Stuka project: That canopy is going to be a nightmare to mask!

Eduard makes a masking set for this kit, but with the way my finances are for the moment, it's out of the budget. Perhaps when I get next weeks paycheck, I'll see.

Hi Jim,

I am very sorry to hear about all the overtime you are putting in.  Also sad that you are still dealing with your Mom's estate.  That seems to be dragging on forever.

I do see what you mean on that canopy.  Wow, that would be a chore to do by hand, especially at 1/72 scale!

Thank you for helping me with the zinc chromate color!  I did look at that but just as you already pointed out, it is a different shade.  Here is the color from Testors' own website:

And here is yellow zinc chromate, also from their website:

They are indeed two different colors.  Don has already confirmed that the yellow zinc chromate is the correct color.

I thought the same thing when I first saw it sitting on the shelf at the LHS and bought a couple of bottles.  Oh well, I do have some WWII models to build and will be able to use it on them!   

Ken 

First off let me say, for what it's worth, I know how draining the 12 hour shifts can be; seems there's only time to eat and sleep if you're lucky!  Can't imagine the emotional strain of dealing with the estate stuff also. As far as the canopy goes, I too didn't have a mask available when I did mine. I'll post a pic for laughs in my next posting. That thing's a pain no matter what!

Jim: Nice work on the Ju-87. Sorry to hear about them working your butt off, I guess in a way it's good considering people getting their hours cut or laid-off. Just hang in there.

Funny I thought yellow zinc chromate looked like 1184, it does anyway with the old Polly-S/PollyScale paint and the Testor's Model Master. I've never seen anything like 4851D. I think I remember somewhere reading that yellow zinc chromate is basic ZC- the green has stuff added to it that changes the colour.

Hi Everyone,

It looks like the yellow zinc chromate will arrive tomorrow from looking at the tracking information.  So I will finally be able to get started on the cockpit.  And since it is acrylic, once I do get the base color applied, I will only be waiting 24 hours before I can start adding the other colors.

Ken

Cool Ken!

Over here the Apache is alllllllmmmmmooooosssstttttttttt done..........

Excellent Cliff; can't wait to see it. Ken, sounds like you're only being slowed down by materiel; not ambition! 

As I indicated in my last post here's the Ju-87 canopy I was forced to fee-hand paint. Not pretty but it's seen far worse from my dog in the meantime. To wit, the antenna and jacked up fit on the whole canopy as he decided to do a little passive aggressive number to it while I was at work. Also included a photo of Marseille's 109 I just finished.

Gamera

Cool Ken!

Over here the Apache is alllllllmmmmmooooosssstttttttttt done..........

Awesome Cliff!  Can't wait to see it!

Ken

mikeymize

Excellent Cliff; can't wait to see it. Ken, sounds like you're only being slowed down by materiel; not ambition! 

As I indicated in my last post here's the Ju-87 canopy I was forced to fee-hand paint. Not pretty but it's seen far worse from my dog in the meantime. To wit, the antenna and jacked up fit on the whole canopy as he decided to do a little passive aggressive number to it while I was at work. Also included a photo of Marseille's 109 I just finished.

Hi Mike,

That canopy on the Stuka looks pretty darn good!  Free hand or not!

And oh my gosh, awesome job on the 109!!      That is just outstanding!!  Would you like to post one of the pictures on the front page?

Ken

Hi Everyone,

Okay, I know I am being way too anal about this!  When the acrylic yellow zinc chromate showed up today it looked so close to the same color of the enamel zinc chromate, I decided to spray both colors side by side to see how they look when they are next to each other dry.  I did this because I know that paint in the jar can change a few shades when they are sprayed and allowed to dry.

Well, the camera can't even tell the difference even though my eyes can.  The paint is not completely dry yet but here is how it looks tonight.  The top half is the acrylic yellow zinc chromate and the bottom half (with the "AMS" logo) is painted with the enamel zinc chromate:

The camera can't pick up the difference but the human eye can see a tint more of green in the enamel version.  We will see how it looks tomorrow when it is completely dry.

Ken 

Son Of Medicine Man

Hi Everyone,

Okay, I know I am being way too anal about this!  When the acrylic yellow zinc chromate showed up today it looked so close to the same color of the enamel zinc chromate, I decided to spray both colors side by side to see how they look when they are next to each other dry.  I did this because I know that paint in the jar can change a few shades when they are sprayed and allowed to dry.

Well, the camera can't even tell the difference even though my eyes can.  The paint is not completely dry yet but here is how it looks tonight.  The top half is the acrylic yellow zinc chromate and the bottom half (with the "AMS" logo) is painted with the enamel zinc chromate:

The camera can't pick up the difference but the human eye can see a tint more of green in the enamel version.  We will see how it looks tomorrow when it is completely dry.

Ken 

Interesting Ken! Obviously we can't trust the accuracy of Testors samples from their website. What will you decide to do?

It's interesting that our eyes can pick up something in the millions of color variations, but our digital toys can't get it right. I know I can't take two pictures in a row and have them look the same.

Mike: The canopy on the Ju-87 actually looks way better than most I've masked! Excellent job there! And I love the weathering on the Bf-109.

Ken: Yeah wow, I can't tell any difference by looking at them, cameras are something aren't they!?!

Thanks for the kind words on the 109 and on the Stuka canopy. Even projects that fall short of my expectations I learn from. I'll try to get a good 3/4 shot of the Messerschmitt for the front page Ken. Also I neglected to post one of the undersurface so I'll do that as well. As far as being too anal, this build is very personal for you as is the Phantom and your attention to detail is very positive!

Hmmm...I know I couldn't do that by hand with my Stuka. Not even if it was 1:1 scale!

In the mean time, I worked at the bench Sunday and here and there through the week.

Painting bits of the Panzer, muffler, muffler supports, top hatch, jack:

I also pulled the Growler down and put on a few decals:

Scorpian tail is still a little wet with it's Micro Sol treatment. The Hasegawa Decals seem to respond well to the solvent.

The silver bumps (right above the scorpion tail) will eventually be coated with clear red for lights. I hope that works because they were gloss black and i didn't think the red would work over that.

I hate these large decals, as I'm always afraid of something going wrong. As for the rest, there's still several large decals to go and about 150 smaller ones. And a plentitude of PE parts yet to add! And I do this to relax?

On a positive note, I may have finally won one battle in regards to Mom's estate. This was only a tiny hill though, and several major battles that compare to mountains to go.

Jim

Jim: Looks good! Odd, everytime I've used Micro Sol and Set on Hasegawa decals they crinkled up and stayed that way. Did you use both or just one, I can't remember which is which - I use the blue label on them but not the red.

Good to hear you're at least making some progress on your mom's estate.

Just remember the red as being the "hot" one. What I usually do is use the blue (Micro Set) on just the surface when I position the the decal in place. The blue is supposed to make the area a little wetter, and soften the decal just a bit. Sometimes it's just water I use if the decals are decent. I wait until the decal begins to settle down, then I begin to apply the red (Micro Sol) to just the problem areas, such as panel lines, details, etc. I don't wash the whole decal with the red as that can cause that crinkle thing. I sometimes have to baby sit the decal a little and apply a bit of the red at a time, until it sucks down into the detail. Some stubborn decals need a lot of baby sitting! It's not fool proof for me as I have had my share of folded decals, torn or broken, disintigrated, and other issue decals.

Ahhhhh that might be it, I'd daub off the extra blue label and then douse the decal with the red. I guess I shouldn't slather it on.