US CARRIER AVIATION GROUP BUILD 2013

Just be a little more careful on the white areas if you want them to look clean. The oil-wash tends to stain light colors a bit if you don't apply it on a gloss finish. If you want it to look dirty, you don't have to do that. You can remove most of the stains by rubbing the surface with a cloth and turpentine though...

An oil-wash should work fine on a satin (=semi gloss?) finish. Most of the Gunze paints I use are semi gloss and all the washes for the interior don't cause any problems. you can always wipe off any excess with a Cloth dampened in turpentine...

Ed, good to see WIP pics. Looking like progress. And I'm looking fwd to trying that pre-shading thing one day myself.

Clemens comment about preferring oil washes has prompted a question.....

Here's where I'm at; Maybe ready for some sort of wash/weather/whatever, but I have a situation.....

My exterior paint job is very rough / grainy / sandpaper like. Mostly a result of getting in a hurry and spraying from too far away and too much pressure methinks. My pre-decal gloss coat was a disappointment. For whatever reason I opted to spray on Testors gloss acryl instead of Future, and it didn't gloss up very well (even after repeat coats) and didn't smooth out the poor finish at all.

So the decal job isn't what I'd hoped for, rather bumpy especially on the big ones (no surprise to you guys, big surprise to me).

So finally, my questions. I sprayed on a fairly heavy Future 'decal sealing' coat last night. It is now what I would call a satin finish, not smooth gloss. Should I spray another coat (or coats) of future and risk filling seam lines and stuff, or will what I have be good enough to 'seal' the decals?

Then on to the final finishing; Greg (Bale) mentioned to try the acryl wash on a test kit and I think that is sound advice and I don't think I want to risk ruining my TBM at this point as whilst it is not quite what I was hoping for, it is at least display worthy as 'my first build back' and I really don't want to do anything to make it worse than it already is.

I am thinking of trying an oil wash (I have some very limited experience within the past few months, but not on large exterior surfaces). I have some confidence I can try it without too much risk.

Another option would be to lay on a final dull coat, cut my losses, reduce damage risk, and maybe try some light pastel weathering over the dullcoat.

The Catch-22 is that sooner or later I am going to have to bite the bullet and attempt a wash to work the seam lines, and that's going to happen at the end of a build anyway so at some point there will be risk.

Sorry about the long post again, any thoughts?

Started the wings of the F-4B/G.  Painted the seats but lost the pictures so I'll take more.

Hey Greg, would you mind sending me your "techniqes database" via e.mail? (as a .zip or .rar file)

I'd love to read it as I am always interested in trying some new methods (I'm still looking for the techniqes that work best for me)

I prefer oil-washes, but I have to try using those acrylic washes. My first and only attempt so far turned out horrible...

That works better for me anyway, Greg, as I am planning a gradual switch-over to Tamiya from MM acrylics, as needs and colors arise.

Also, I neglected to mention that I too wish to be as acrylic based as possible, so your news of acrylic wash over acrylic came as a very pleasant surprise indeed.

Thanks again!

Greg

Curious, the author specifically mentions Polly Scale acrylics. Do you have any particular preference for the paint, Greg? (could be a splendid excuse to run to the LHS today, anyway. :)

Actually, Polly Scale were the first acrylics I ever used (back when the LHS carried them), and I loved them. When I returned to modeling after a few years' break, and decided to "reboot" with acrylics almost exclusively, I picked Tamiya because they had a reputation of being trouble-free. That's been my experience on an ongoing basis, so I've stuck with them

Outstanding! And perfect timing for me, too. Now I have a sense of direction.

I have a subscription so if it a subscriber only archive, I'm legal at least.

Thank you so much, Greg!!

Curious, the author specifically mentions Polly Scale acrylics. Do you have any particular preference for the paint, Greg? (could be a splendid excuse to run to the LHS today, anyway. :)

Aha!

For those interested, I found the sludge-wash article I was referring to. It was in the November 2001 FSM, by Paul Boyer, entitled "Quick And Easy Weathering: Adding accents to panel lines and shadows with sludge." Best of all, it's archived in FSM's How-To Article Archive here. [I'm working on the assumption that there's no problem with linking directly to it. I will willingly submit to public flogging if I'm wrong.]

Greg, methinks your insight will prove invaluable. All I have stumbled across re water washes describe "a drop" of detergent. This is making sense to me, and I really appreciate your additional comments.

On a related side note, the past days I have been doing decals. I was using the drop of detergent in a small plastic paint jar, and the water simply beaded up and did not accomplish the wet base coat of water I was looking for. Ironically, I added more detergent, and it began working like a charm.

I would not have thought to apply what I learned to a water-based wash were it not for your insight.

Your last two posst have been dutifully filed in my useful tips / washes folder! Thanks again, I almost can't wait to try it now.

Hey Rob, the terms "finish" and "model train layout" have never belonged in the same sentence in my experience! (Kidding, sort of, I actually started and finished a Christmas Tree base HO layout once.

Looking fwd to your updates when your time permits! In the meantime, have fun with the layout!

Greg

I keep reading that wash wants to be opposite base coat (ie, oil or enamel wash over acrylic base, or vice-versa). Yet your acrylic over acrylic seems to work fine for you. Any comments on that?

I can't argue against that common wisdom. As provided by the manufacturers, acrylic over acrylic will try to "grab" and hold on. That's why I gave the hedge comment about the protective coat of Future (that I didn't use in this case).

For me, also, the key to useful and successful acrylic washes was the amount of soap. I started out by putting in a drop or so, which helped a lot with cutting the surface tension and letting the wash flow properly into recesses, but still let the wash "grab" the acrylic undercoat to the point that it often couldn't be removed. But I saw an article [in, I believe, an old FSM] about "sludge washes," that advised what to me seemed a really excessive amount of soap in the mix. But I tried it, and it worked. The extra amount of soap thins the wash consistency and seems to keep the acrylic paint from bonding hard to the painted surface. The dry cotton swab works really well to remove excess, even allowing a weathering effect in some cases. (Practice practice practice.)

The one proviso I'd offer about the high-soap-content washes is to be sure to seal them with Future (or some clear barrier) before applying a matte acrylic clear coat. Otherwise, the soap wash areas may turn streaky white under the matte. [I use Testors acrylic for my matte clear, can't say as to anything else.]

The soap content in the wash does not seem to have any long-term hazard to the paints and finishes once properly sealed. I've been doing this method for about eight years now, and the old models haven't shown any deterioration, discoloration, or other nasties where the washes were applied.

Best advice I could give is to get a cheap kit and play with the technique. See what happens when the soap ratio is changed, how it works over different brand paints, etc.

Thanks again for your interest. Any questions or comments, I'll answer as best I can.

Greg

Really appreciate the info on how you washed (meaning, detail washed) this. I am bound and determined to learn water-based washes. I can now see an error of my trials, not enough detergent.

I'll second Greg's appreciation on your washing recipe.  I have not done too much washing but little I have tried seldom seems to work well.  But I too have never tried using dish detergent in the recipe.

P.S. I'll get back to the Devastator and post some updates for you shortly Greg, but currently I am trying to finish a model train layout for my nephew by next weekend...

Thanks for your comprehensive answers to my questions, Greg. Really helpful, truly appreciate.

Making things fit was never one of my strong points, but having taken advice here and slowing way down and practicing patience, perhaps you are right, I should try a resin cockpit. I still haven't learned to be patient enough, but improving slowly.

Really appreciate the info on how you washed (meaning, detail washed) this. I am bound and determined to learn water-based washes. I can now see an error of my trials, not enough detergent.

I keep reading that wash wants to be opposite base coat (ie, oil or enamel wash over acrylic base, or vice-versa). Yet your acrylic over acrylic seems to work fine for you. Any comments on that? I am almost ready to try my first airframe wash on my TBM, and I really don't know what direction to go.

Thanks again, Greg. And please don't forget the cockpit detail painting pics if you have the time!

Greg

Thanks Greg, it was getting too quiet here.

I wish I could be there looking over your shoulder as you work on the resin and make it fit. I'm determined to try a resin cockpit sometime, I'm rather intimidated and think I'll wait a while.

Thanks for the supportive comments.

You should definitely try a resin cockpit--they're too good not to try! Nothing whatsoever to be intimidated about, but careful test-fitting of everything is required, even when the resin set is made specifically for the model you're working on. There's usually a fair bit of excess material to remove (pour stubs and bases), and even with clear instructions [my set has no instuctions at all], it's not always clear where to cut--so just work slowly and patiently. The result, in terms of luscious (or just "better") detail, is well worth it.

Greg

What did you use for the wash? Does the resin need any special preparation prior to washing, painting?

I always wash resin with dish soap or a Formula-409 type cleaner and a soft toothbrush, just to make sure any mold release agents or handling oils are gone. The pieces shown were brush-painted light gray with Tamiya acrylic, then allowed to cure for 24 hours. I used a homemade acrylic wash, roughly two droppers-full water to one of ordinary dish soap, with a few drops of black paint to tint. If it's a critical application (or a super-flat paint finish) I'll seal the surface to be painted with a coat of Future first. But most of the time, as long as the paint has cured well, the high soap content in the wash means it will go into recesses and detail without changing the surface color noticeably, and it's easy to remove (once dry) with a dry cotton swab. (Or you can wash it off entirely if it doesn't look right.)

Detail-painting is started (no pics yet), mainly just the black panels on the inst. panels and consoles, with dry-brushing of switches and knobs to follow.

Thanks Greg, it was getting too quiet here.

I wish I could be there looking over your shoulder as you work on the resin and make it fit. I'm determined to try a resin cockpit sometime, I'm rather intimidated and think I'll wait a while.

What did you use for the wash? Does the resin need any special preparation prior to washing, painting?

Really looking fwd to the detail painting pics!

Thanks for adding a bit of excitement here. :)

Clemens, that is dedication, taking two kits on what sounds like a family getaway. Whoa. Hope you get the virus taken care of, if not already.

Greg

Updates, anyone, anything???

Okay....

After being occupied with other projects for a while, I've nevertheless been following all the progress here so far with great interest. But I finally "broke plastic" (so to speak) on my Hasegawa EA-6B. Using the Super Bug resin interior which, though apparently made for this particular model, doesn't fit particularly well. (In addition to regular required bulkhead removal from the kit parts, I had to cut the front consoles off the resin tub, since it was quite a bit too wide to fit even with all the excess resin removed. Repositioning the consoles should be fairly easy.)

Starting the "tailoring" to let the resin 'pit fit::

Cockpit parts (mostly) trimmed and cleaned up, with a few parts glued together:

Same parts, painted & with a bit of wash applied prior to detail-painting:

Not very dramatic thus far, but it's a start. (Seats are also base-coated, but plain black doesn't make for an interesting photo.) May get a bit more done this weekend.

Sorry, nothin' new here. I managed to get a really naasty virus on my PC and I have to sort that out first... I have to spend the next week in Carynthia with the family, so I am limited to a maximum of two models to take with me. The Wildcat aint gonna be one of them, because I need to finish my Bubbletop Jug untill August and that means I will take 2 Thunderbolts with me (I work on both of them at the same time)

Updates, anyone, anything???

Now I want to make a diorama with those planes hanging from the ceiling...

This can't end well though:

Each Devastator costs me 70€, which is 210€ if I build 3 of them. Add a 2 Dauntless kits  from hasegawa for 60€. And I really don't want to know how much I'd have to pay for the materials needed to build that hangar deck...

Let's say 500€ for that project? Too much for me atm (I don't want to mess up such an expensive project because a lack of skills)

I might build that dio for the next round of this GB though (2014)

Yep, that "Devastator" looked strange to me as well, but I never thought of it being a Dauntless! Thanks for pointing that out, Rob!

No worries, Rex! You have plenty of time left to finish your Scooter! And if ya can't finish in time it's no problem as well because this GB will be annual...

hi Ed, looking forward to seeing your build

Greg, I also did not intend any slams on them,,,,,,,,,,I bust their chops enough already,,,,,,,,but, I am not going to anymore,,,,,,today's doctor visit sort of says that I need to just say "okay", if I say that A-4Es were Gray over White, and someone says they were all Blue, lol

Folks, I would have my Skyhawk posted up here as "started",,,,,,,but, my hobby time is being used up trying to run around in person and online and get all the Acrylics I will be needing for the foreseeable future,,,,then I will post some mangled and "inadequately unweathered plastic"

Rex, the Accidental Cag

Greetings from Central Kentucky. Clemens has so graciously allowed me to enter this GB and I can't wait! I will be doing the excellent Hobby Boss F3H-2 Demon kit in 1/48. I still haven't decided on final details yet, but like always I will make it up as I go along! I have been away from the forum for about a year due to family obligations, work, etc. but I continued to build a few things (Skyraider & Huey) in the little spare time I had. I am now ready to jump back in! You all have been doing some exceptional work and it will be an honor to build with this group! Thanks for reading my ramblings!

Thanks for the further info, Rob. Learning all sorts of neat stuff today!

Just for the record, no way did I intend to judge weathering. Just a casual observation. I can see how my comment could be interpreted as being critical of weathering, though.

Actually, three of those are SBDs, look closely at the flap in the upper left of the photo as well as the  wheels and the flaps on middle right plane and the one opposite it.... even more interesting maybe?

P.S.  Someone else pointed out those SBDs on the original site I found the photo on...

Thanks for that nice pic, Rob!

Looks like a good theme for a diorama. A section of a hangar deck with some Devastators (let's say 5) hung from the ceiling and another one on the elevator? All of that in 1/48. Anyone? No? Maybe I'll do it when I get even more insane than I am right now (even if ya can't believe it, it IS possible...) Too bad the Devastators from GWH cost me 70€ per kit... (Tamiya's wildcats are only 25€ though. decisions, decisions...)

well, to give the weathering guys a bit of credit,,,,,,,at that time it was the spare aircraft that were hanged up there,,,,,,,so, they would only have seen some flight time "on the beach" before the cruise, then got the wings ripped off and were hung up there to fill in as the squadron birds got used up/depleted

any weathering they would have suffered would have been after getting hoisted down and assembled

Holy wow, Rob. That is really something. Thanks so much for posting the pic.

On a side note, it is difficult not to notice how clean those airframes appear to be. Hmmmm.