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1944 Group Build

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, December 2, 2014 2:40 PM

SS, thanks buddy. The tracks are frustrating me at the moment, my first time with 251 Fruils. But I am struggling through.

Doug, sounds like your getting lots of great help here. I can feel your pain, I did a bi plane last here, an 0/400, and that was frustrating enough. As check says, keep at it.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, December 2, 2014 11:18 AM

Thanks, Clemens.  When the rigging actually turns out well for me, I think it's more luck than brains.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, December 2, 2014 11:17 AM

Hey, Doug:

You can use a burning piece of incense, and gradually bring it closer to the sprue-line.  Hopefully, the incense smoke is hot enough to tighten the plastic.  Too close and it will melt through and curl up.  I've had that happen more than once.

Try to get the sprue as tight as possible before you apply heat.  That means cutting the sprue as accurately as you can to get it as near the right length as you can.  That way the heat doesn't have to tighten it too much.  I've found that if I over-do the length too much, the sprue is reluctant to tighten up at all without breaking, melting and curling.

Usually I attach the sprue end to the mast first, then anchor it to the deck or the tie-down point.  Sometimes you just have to go with what works most conveniently.

I try to do as much rigging as possible with the sub-assemblies before I attach them to the hull.  It makes things easier than trying to maneuver and manipulate the whole completed ship.

Just keep plugging away at it, and take a break when it gets too much.  I built a Gloster Gladiator for the Airfix GB years ago--a biplane with lots of rigging.  I had to remove all the rigging from the first attempt and do the whole thing over.  That was a major lesson in both frustration and patience!

I think using sprue for rigging is more art than science, and it doesn't always go well--but then, what in modeling every does always go well?

USS Missouri in 1945 sounds like a really good choice; and with PE!  Another learning curve coming up.  As for bending it, I don't have anything except single-edge razor blades, and they usually work pretty well; but you're working in a bigger scale than 1/700.  I have given thought to getting a mechanical bender too, especially for rails that might be longer than a razor blade.

But, I've also read that some ship-modelers never apply railing in more than 2 inch lengths; makes them more manageable.

Good luck with Missouri.  You are obtaining some great results!

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, December 2, 2014 10:43 AM

Thanks for the information and suggestions, Eric.  And that is a beautifully done mast!  

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Tuesday, December 2, 2014 9:48 AM

Bish: You did one hell of a job on the 251! The camo looks truly amazing!

Checkmate: Holy moly, now that's some really, really fine rigging you got there! My hat's off to you! Those are some really nice looking floatplanes too!

Joe: I can't wait to see her fully painted and unmasked!

Doug: Nice work on the Missouri! I'm looking forward to seeing her with some weathering!

Steve: That T-34 looks great, despite the age of the kit! The base turned out really well too! Is there any particular picture you want me to add to the front page?

  • Member since
    May 2014
Posted by Nomad53 on Tuesday, December 2, 2014 5:42 AM

CMK, I have a question. How do you get your rigging so tight with out melting the sprue? Also do you attach the sprue to the mast or deck first. I am trying to make mine look as good as I can but not having much luck right now.

Things are looking great with all the builds in here. Everyone keep it up.

I need to see what I can come up with for the 1945 build. Oh wait I know, how about the USS Missouri at Tokyo Bay 1945. Completely different paint scheme. Maybe the wife will let me get the railings and ladders and some PE for it. Never tried PE before. That's gonna be a challenge. Don"t know if my hands will let me do all that small stuff. Plus I do not have anything to bend the PE with.

My wife is gonna kill me when I tell her it gonna take between $30 to $65 to get a PE bender. Just send flowers to the funeral.

Doug

Nomad53


 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, December 2, 2014 2:13 AM

There's a hardware store near my house that sells metal wire and tubing ranging from very thing to very big. I just went down there and picked out some packs of thin stuff of various thickness - some tubing, some not. I had a plastic mast with me and eyeballed it - worked fine.  Most of my labels are long shredded, but enough are left to tell you that .5mm is pretty thin and 2.0mm is pretty thick. I'd look for stuff on both sides of 1.0 mm.  If there's a hobby shop nearby they should have plastic tubing - find something that looks right and note the size. Hobby shop might sell metal too, especially if they have model railroads.  The online shops sell metal tubing of all kinds and you sure don't need that much. (Obviously a small tin snip is needed.) Even at hobby shops it's pretty cheap so you can get several sizes - hardware stuff is nickle/dime.

There's an English company called Albion Alloys that makes technical tubing and have a modeler collection. This is more expensive but very reasonable in model world. They sell every tubing under the sun, but what's neat are their sets of tubes designed to just fit inside each other: I can imagine making a gun barrel out of it. There are some very expensive tapered masts out there, but they're specific to various ships. The Albion stuff could make some neat effects. But for most purposes pretty thin brass wire/tube is the easiest to cut, cheap and far stronger than styrene. I don't do much scratch building, but even I can make a foremast in fifteen minutes. Frequently some plastic details from the kit can be removed from the styrene and put on metal. Here's the one I made for Hobson - brass with some plastic detail attached:


Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Monday, December 1, 2014 3:47 PM

Thanks, Bish.  After all the time it takes to get the rigging right, it feels like making a model in itself!

Eric:  not sure where I picked up the use of white glue; it might have been an old book from the 70's by Chris Ellis about making plastic models.  I've used it since before they invented CA.  It takes a while to wait while the white glue sets up, but after that it's tenacious, and the sprue will melt/break before it lets go.

Again, the advantage is that there's no mess if you need to remove the sprue-line.  Just a touch the attachment point with a wet brush; wait a bit; and the errant sprue pulls right off--and, you get to start over.

I may have to get some brass tubing and try making masts, cuz I almost always break the plastic ones and have to fix them.  

Do you have any suggestions about the size of brass tubing for masts in 1/700?  

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, December 1, 2014 2:48 PM

Eric, thank you. Until a couple of years ago, the Tony Greenland way was how all my armour kits were built. But since coming on here I have really been working on improving it. I think I am close to where I want to be with the weathering whether it be light or heavy, which all really depends on the base and the finish I am after. I am trying to avoid in having one 'style' but still trying to have a standard approach I can use what ever the finish I am after.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, December 1, 2014 2:41 PM

Don't think I've ever tried using white glue with sprue. My problem with sprue is that I always make main masts out of brass tubing. (Easiest thing in the world - just copy the plastic and join it with CA. Never used solder. Much easier to rig. One of uber-meister Jim Baumann's tips on Model Warship.) So I'd use plastic glue on it and it would melt. The neat thing about sprue if you can get it to work is that there are no knots. Also good that you can tighten it with heat (Baumann recommends burning incense sticks which work very well - the smoke tells you where the heat is going and it's easier to keep a distance. Mono works the same, but it has the biggest knots.) Next ship I'll try some sprue with my trusty Aleene's Tacky Glue - one of the most important weapons in my modeling arsenal. It's just white glue that has a very distinct grab to it: use Aleene's to fix PE and CA to cement it. Look forward to seeing the completed ship.

Bish - do like your armor. Doesn't have the overly tidy look of the Tony Greenland style and avoids the overkill of Jimenez-Rinaldi school. Very well thought out.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, December 1, 2014 12:48 PM

Nice one check, that looks like a model all by itself.

Looking good there Joe.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Monday, December 1, 2014 12:03 PM

Joe:  thanks for your comments:  and that's nice work on the painting, there.  The three-colors is a pretty attractive scheme.  

Nomad:  thanks; and good luck with your rigging; be prepared to be patient with it; don't be afraid to redo it if necessary (it's why I use white glue; you can fix the goof-ups!); and take a break and walk away from it when it becomes frustrating.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Monday, December 1, 2014 6:37 AM

Mornin' Gentlemen. Here's a quick update pic of where I am currently at. Now to putty mask for the upper fuselage dark blue and get that on.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    May 2014
Posted by Nomad53 on Monday, December 1, 2014 5:37 AM

Thanks Joe.

CMK, That is some fine rigging you have done there. Going to try and start my rigging today. Hope it turns out like yours. First time at doing it.

Everyone is doing such a great job on their builds. Keep up the great work all.

Nomad53


 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:56 PM

Steve: Your T-34 looks great on the base. You did a really nice job.

Doug: Oh yeah, that is some really outstanding work you have done on your camo. Kudos to you on your patience and efforts.

CMK: The extra time you put in on that rigging to get it right definitely paid off. That is some very remarkable craftsmanship you're demonstrating.

I managed to get the dark sea blue on the wings and tail today. Took me a little extra time in that I had a little mishap with some pre used silly putty. I used some putty that I had just used to mask for the white half moons under the tail to size up what I would need to mask the side of the fuselage. Well, I had not kneaded it near enough and when I lifted it back off to trim it I discovered a mess of little white paint flecks embedded into the gloss coat. So, I had to take some time to spray on some repair IB and some new gloss coat. But, she's all good now. I'll have some pics tomorrow as I ran out of time before the Denver Bronco game started.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:21 PM

Thanks, lost!  They really aren't that bad!

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2014
  • From: Australia
Posted by lostagain on Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:08 PM

CMK, that is so good, watching your build with great admiration. May get brave and try a ship myself one day.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:50 PM

Spent most of the afternoon adding five pieces of sprue to this for rigging, including the flag.

Rigging isn't quite as taut as I'd like it, but I had to do some over again, after I tightened it, cuz it pulled the mast out of alignment.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:34 PM

Ok guys, the 1945 GB is now up and running. Stikpusher will be running the roster. I know you guys know the drill, same rules as before, I will fill in the details in a bit for those who don't.

cs.finescale.com/.../163030.aspx

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, November 30, 2014 12:48 PM

checkmateking02

I think you've got the Measure 32 camouflage scheme down really well, Doug.  Good job and very well-executed.  It's going to look great when finished.

What Bish said about apply the base color before adding the second color is true, and I often do this even when airbrushing.  I think it works because the second coat of the first color sort of seals the edge of the masking tape, preventing the second color from seeping under the tape.  I always do this when I paint yellow tips on aircraft propellers.

Anyway, great work on Missouri!  Keep it coming!

That makes sense, I have not tried it myself, but then its not that often I need to use tape for masking.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Toronto
Posted by Rob S. on Sunday, November 30, 2014 12:45 PM

Great work thus far guys!! That T-34's a real beauty Steve, well done!! YesYes

______________________________________________________________________________

 

On the Bench: Nothing on the go ATM

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, November 30, 2014 12:13 PM

I think you've got the Measure 32 camouflage scheme down really well, Doug.  Good job and very well-executed.  It's going to look great when finished.

What Bish said about apply the base color before adding the second color is true, and I often do this even when airbrushing.  I think it works because the second coat of the first color sort of seals the edge of the masking tape, preventing the second color from seeping under the tape.  I always do this when I paint yellow tips on aircraft propellers.

Anyway, great work on Missouri!  Keep it coming!

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, November 30, 2014 12:08 PM

Thanks, Doug.  Actually, there isn't much to assemble on a plane in 1/700 scale.  These float planes consisted of the fuselage/wings, the main float and two wing floats.

I lost the wing floats for both planes, so I used the floats that came from the kit parts.

Trumpeter markets a bunch of after-market aircraft for ships in 1/700.  I'm not sure, but they might make them in 1/350, too.  The ones I've purchased have always come with decals for the planes--whether they are scout planes from a cruiser or battleship, or the air group for a carrier.

Starfighter decals makes after-market decals in 1/350.  Mark the owner is a good guy and his products are excellent.  I've used both his 1/700 and 1/72 offerings.

www.starfighter-decals.com/1350-de.html

When I mask planes this tiny, I use a combination of masking tape (thin strips) and liquid decal potion to cover the clear canopy, then a combination of tape and poster tack for the rest--depending on what seems to work best.  I use a black acrylic paint applied with a brush for the engine and props, assuming the props haven't broken off by that time.

If your're interested in how it works, you can check into the carrier aviation GB still going on.  I did up the USS Enterprise air group from Midway--Dauntlesses.  The photos and techniques might be helpful when you get to working on Missouri's scout planes.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, November 30, 2014 11:56 AM

Awesome bird, the Stuka.

Did some work on one last night.  Now I need to get over there and officially sign up.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, November 30, 2014 11:52 AM

Looks excellent, Steve; a real tribute to the Soviet juggernaut.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, November 30, 2014 11:15 AM

That's looking good Doug. I can't comment on painting ships, but I do notice you have had a little run that's run under the mask. I have heard of people painting the previous colour after masking and then painting the next, though I am not sure how this stop the paint running under the mask. But the runs don't appear nothing a little touch up with a brush won't resolve, that's what I normally do.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2014
Posted by Nomad53 on Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:59 AM

Your welcome Bish.

Okay here are some update photos. Still a lot of work to be done. Please be easy on me for the paint job, but I need your comments on how to make the next one better. A lot better.

got the clear coat on, deck and all top side, and going to get the clear coat on the hull so I can start weathering.

Nomad53


 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, November 30, 2014 9:48 AM

Thanks Doug. We try our best to help out and what goes around comes around.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2014
Posted by Nomad53 on Sunday, November 30, 2014 8:01 AM

Wow!!! What great work Raven, Bish and CMK. The dio looks great Raven. Great job.

Bish you have done a fantastic paint job there. the detail is just  awesome.

CMK, how did you get all that detail on those little planes? I still have not got mine even glued together yet much less painted. Mine did not come with any decals for the planes so I do not know what to do with that. Thinking back on this build I have learned a lot. I think I will try my hand at another ship soon.

Thanks for all the help and tips on all the builds that I have done. You all are just awesome.

Doug

Nomad53


 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, November 30, 2014 3:52 AM

checkmateking02

Thanks, Joe & Bish.  Only thing with the Kingfishers, I managed to know the prop blades off one of them.  I guess it'll be on the catapult doing an engine run-up.

A Stuka GB?  Know where I can find one? Surprise

I am sure there must be one around here some where. Such an awesome lovely mean looking aircraft as the Stuka should always have a GB going, don't you think Big Smile

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

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