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1944 Group Build

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  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Monday, December 8, 2014 10:30 AM

Joe: Oops, almost missed you there. I'm really sorry to hear about the gloss coat issues you're experiencing. I'm sure you'll manage to fix it though!

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Monday, December 8, 2014 11:11 AM

Sorry to hear about this, Joe.  I hate when this happens, especially so late in the construction process when all the paint is on.  Hang in there!

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Monday, December 8, 2014 11:14 AM

Thanks, Clemens; I appreciate your comments.  

And thanks again for your involvement with the build.  I've enjoyed being in the GB's you've sponsored, and look forward to more in the future.

As for the photo, I think the last one--showing the starboard profile--will do nicely.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, December 8, 2014 11:43 AM

Joe, that's not good. I have not heard of that before. Possibly something in the airbrush that contaminated it? It in lo0king really nice in those pics though, I sure hope you can fix it.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, December 8, 2014 11:49 AM

checkmateking02

I don't think I'd be up to anything in 1:350--all the detail and tiny little parts!!!  All the PE!  It'd take the rest of my life!

How old of a kit is the Belfast?  How's the detail and molding level?  Haven't done an Airfix ship since I was a kid.  It defeated me back then.

It originates from the early 70's, and my error, its 1/600 not 700. I did build it in my early modelling days, back in the early 80's. I think I may have got it while on one of our visits to the ship, either that or soon after a visit. That hasn't survived so I got another not long before I stopped building back in 2003. I think its pretty standard for the time, probably npthing up to todays standards. I had intended to get some PE for it from White Ensign, but of course that's now out the window. I may just do it OOB and just to get my eye in for ships. I might try and get to it next year in between other builds.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, December 8, 2014 12:48 PM

Update time again. This week has been centred on the weathering, which apart from some mud and dirt is now all done. I started with some dry brushing using MiG oils. I didn't go to mad on this, just along the edges and high points.

This was followed by a thin Raw Umber wash all over

And then some dot filtering with oils. I used white, Raw Sienna and Burnt Umber.

And then to finish off, a pin wash using AK wash for dark yellow, some light chipping and some streaks using AK streaking grime. The road wheels have also been added after some MiG pigments were applied. I still have to remove the excess.

  

 

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Monday, December 8, 2014 3:00 PM

That is a great-looking half-track, Bish.

Just the kind of thing Sergeant Saunders would drop a grenade into.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2014
Posted by Nomad53 on Monday, December 8, 2014 5:48 PM

Wow just wow Bish, I do not have any thing but one word to say. Outstanding.

Doug

Nomad53


 

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Toronto
Posted by Rob S. on Monday, December 8, 2014 6:13 PM

Bish, looking outstanding...can you expand a bit more on 'dot filtering with oils'?? Cheers!!

______________________________________________________________________________

 

On the Bench: Nothing on the go ATM

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Monday, December 8, 2014 8:55 PM

Thanks for the encouragement fellas. I really appreciate it. I'll give it my best shot.

Bish, Your weathering is truly outstanding. Your techniques are producing some eye popping results. You sure know how to be bring "realism" to whole new meaning. About the Tamiya gloss, I don't airbrush it. It is straight out of the rattle can. Still, I've nearly always produced a nice even coat with it out of the can. I'm further befuddled by the fact that it only did it on the wings and tail plane and yet it came out just fine on the fuselage.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, December 8, 2014 9:14 PM

Bish

Looks very good indeed. How you going to handle the final dust on the body? Lot of folks use a really light dusting of light paint. Some mix some pigments in with ISP and blast away. I still haven't figured out which I like better.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 12:36 PM

Thanks guys.

For dust I have been using AK's dust effects. But for this one, I will be using their earth effects lower down then mix some earth with dust higher up, but I am not going to go to heavy on this one.

Rob, dot filtering is some I have picked up from a number of other people, but this method is based on wbill's. After the dots are added, I use a flat brush dipped in white spirits, what you guys call mineral spirits. I then remove any excess on a piece of tissue and use downward strokes dragging the oils with it. And then keep going over that section until I am happy with it. This article no doubt explains it a lot better. But I only use two or three colours. On previous build I did use a wider range of oil colours which left a much more weathered look, but I think I have no settled on the method I am using here.

www.ipmshawaii.0catch.com/techniques_dot_filtering.html

Joe, thanks. Its taken a lot of trial and error, but I think I am pretty close to the sort of results I really want. I still need to learn different levels of weathering, especially on the lighter side, but its getting there.

That does sound rather strange. If there had been something on the wing and fuselage, then surly it would have been on the fuselage as well. Bit of a mystery.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 12:37 PM

checkmateking02

That is a great-looking half-track, Bish.

Just the kind of thing Sergeant Saunders would drop a grenade into.

Let him try Wink

Doug, thanks buddy.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Toronto
Posted by Rob S. on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 1:05 PM

Thanks Bish

______________________________________________________________________________

 

On the Bench: Nothing on the go ATM

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 1:07 PM

Pleasure Rob, I hope that's what you were after.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 2:36 PM

Bish

checkmateking02

That is a great-looking half-track, Bish.

Just the kind of thing Sergeant Saunders would drop a grenade into.

Let him try Wink

Doug, thanks buddy.

 
Anyone who loves dogs would never--really--hurt a halftrack, either.
 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 3:17 PM

checkmateking02

Bish

checkmateking02

That is a great-looking half-track, Bish.

Just the kind of thing Sergeant Saunders would drop a grenade into.

Let him try Wink

Doug, thanks buddy.

 
Anyone who loves dogs would never--really--hurt a halftrack, either.
 

2 Para must really hate dogs...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 3:58 PM

I guess so!  Try not to let Bish see that photo.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 4:13 PM

Bloody Dangler's

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by waynec on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 4:38 PM

the bridge picture is from the movie but i have a painting of the bridge from a former soldier i picked up at the museum in osterbeek in 1977

Никто не Забыт    (No one is Forgotten)
Ничто не Забыто  (Nothing is Forgotten)

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by waynec on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 4:46 PM

JOE RIX

Whelp, Here I was cruising right along when the un..#%!!&!!ing..expected happend. I sprayed the Tamiya gloss coat onto the upper surface last night only to watch it orange peel on the wings and tail surfaces. WHAT THE......? I've used Tamiya gloss coat for years and have never had this happen before. Utterly frustrating. So after a few moments of speaking like a dock worker I turned my attention to a solution. This will entail a healthy sanding session followed by a repaint. Oh well, doesn't do any good to get pissy, simply time to get busy.

my flat coat disaster wasn't that bad. had a syrian police BRDM (tamiya blue with black and gray splotches) and  hit iyt with dulcoat and the blue bleed. after it dried and i cooled off, i was able to touch up some paint and the rest looks like the new paint ran. but armor is a lot more forgiving.

nice wok on the boats. i have a DD i have to finish for a friend. fortunately no detailed camo pattern. and i have build a couple of u-boats and have more in the stash.

Никто не Забыт    (No one is Forgotten)
Ничто не Забыто  (Nothing is Forgotten)

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 4:47 PM

Bloody Dangler's

 
Oops, too late.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, December 9, 2014 9:04 PM

Yeah, I originally wanted to do a DD (in dazzle pattern and with PE!!!) but my other projects this year ended taking up far more time than I intended, so a nice simple U-Boat it was for here... and since U-505 was pretty significant for 1944, I figured that it would fit the bill nicely while still giving me a sea subject.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2014
Posted by Nomad53 on Thursday, December 11, 2014 6:15 AM

Well I got my PE railings in yesterday and man what a disaster. I have bent more railings than I have got on the ship. Looks like i will have to order more. Need to order more anyways because I did not get enough to do the ship.

My big thumbs keep getting in the way when placing the rails and bent the crap out of them. Plus I have managed tlo knock of the top part of the mast where the flag in and mess up my rigging. All of this is fixable but man it is so frustrating.

I am having a very hard time getting the railing in the right place and matching up. I have read the forum at The Ship Model forum several time and tried everything that they say to do. I do not what to even post photos of the railing on here at all. That is how bad it is.

I either get to much glue or not enough. I have used CA and that made a big mess. Aleene's Tacky Glue, that was a little better, and white glue with a little water added so I could brush it on. To no avail I could not get the rails straight at all.

Oh well it's a learning curve that I will have to get through to get it right.

Doug

Nomad53


 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Thursday, December 11, 2014 9:33 AM

Doug, here's what I do, and it seems to work.

You do have to bend the rail to shape first--put in corners and curves, that is.

Then I cut a very narrow strip of low-tack masking tape, and stick it on the rail, perpendicular to the direction of the rail.  Then I put the rail in place, using the tape to hold it where it belongs.  This is the frustrating part, because the rail might drop off; you might drop it; the tape might let it go--any number of things.  

But, once you get the rail in place, thin out some Elmer's or other white glue with water and a drop or so of detergent as a wetting agent.  Pick some of this up with a small paint brush (I use a 10 ) and touch it to the point where the rail meets the deck, but far enough away from the tape, so it won't flow under the tape.  Capillary action will draw the thinned white glue into the join seam.

Then, let the thing dry for an hour or two--or even longer.  Then carefully pull off the tape, and apply the thinned white glue all along the length of the railing, and let that dry.  White glue, even thinned, holds about as well on painted parts as CA does.  With less mess.

After the rail and glue is fully dried, you can take a q-tip, dampened with water, and wipe off the excess white glue--something you can't do with CA.

Installing railings is frustrating, so there's nothing wrong with you because your experiencing difficulties.  You just have to be more stubborn and pig-headed than the railing.  I don't have any photos of the procedure I've outlined above, but I can post a couple of photos of ships where I did apply pretty much full PE, using the procedure--and it eventually worked well.

USS Enterprise

USS New Orleans

Again, keep plugging away, and don't give up the ship!

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2014
Posted by Nomad53 on Friday, December 12, 2014 10:16 AM

CMK, I have tried your suggestion and it is going better. the only problem I have now is keeping the rails straight. The gluing is going better also, but I do have another question. When should I actually put the PE on?

My big thumbs keep getting in the way as do some of the guns and other parts. Painting? When should I do that also?

Thanks for the help,

Doug

Nomad53


 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Friday, December 12, 2014 3:15 PM

Glad things are progressing, Doug.

When to put on the PE depends on where to put the PE,  I think.  I add it at the point I think it can most easily be done.  For example, the the island for the Enterprise, I added the PE before I attached the island to the flight deck.

For the catwalks around the Enterprise flight deck, I added them before attaching the island and all the little AA guns.

I think it's easier to manipulate and hold on to a smaller assembly, than it is finishing the kit and only then trying to install all the PE.

On New Orleans, I added the PE as I completed each sub-assembly of the superstructure.  I put the rails around the deck on before attaching the superstructure assemblies.

So pre-planning and forethought are the key here.  

As for painting, I detached the PE parts and cleaned them up; then bent them to shape and painted before installation.  I also clear-coated them with Floquil Flat after painting.  Sadly, it's no longer available, but that stuff produced a nice waxy smooth semi-matte coat that you could apply decals to.  I It made it easy to clean off any excess white glue.

Some paint tends to fleck off, but that can be touched up, in place, with a small paint brush.

There are probably other methods and techniques other modelers use, but I've found these to work pretty well for  me.

Again:  fair winds and following seas!

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Friday, December 12, 2014 6:12 PM

Bish, the weathering on your 251 turned out great! Really fantastic stuff!

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, December 12, 2014 10:25 PM

Railing is a snap as soon as you get it working. There are two processes. First, you have to get it off the metal sprue. I use a #16 blade Xacto or - if I can get at them - a pair of mini-scissors. The trick is to put on your strongest reading glasses and find the points where the rails connect to the metal sprue and push your blade straight down on them - don't try to saw them off by moving the knife backwards and forwards. The standard #11 blade works too - just use it at the right angle and push down right on the connecting point - it'll cut right through. If using knives with PE I change blades often - actually I change blades often anyway - amazing how much better a new blade works than an older one even if you use a sharpening stone. #11 blades are available for about $12 per 100 blades.

You want to be using a very hard surface to work with PE. Glass is good, so is very hard plexiglass. I use black plexiglass because it's so much easier to see the parts when they come off and it's also easier to see the very small connecting points between the PE parts and the PE sprues.

Once you've got a section of railing off, I'd cut it into pieces - 2" max. Here again, you want to take your blade and push straight down on the line where you want to make the cut - never pull the blade back and forth. If you have good modeling scissors they work very well - just be careful. (I should have told you to buy extra railings - Lord knows how many I have. You don't want to worry about having enough and you want to be able to scrap a piece that gets bent. Delicate PE like WEM is very hard to repair, although it's possible with tweezers and good reading glasses.) For attaching the railing you can't do better than Aleene's Tacky Glue. This stuff is a must (it's also the US version of the stuff used by ubermeister Jim Baumann on Model Warship) because it's got something in it that makes it grab the part. Normal white glue actually doesn't work very well. Aleene's is widely available - any craft store, fabric store and a lot of hardware stores have it. Cheap and works great. I like regular but it comes in "Extra Tacky" and "Fast Drying." If you're using small links of railing they'll stick easy - but just a little glue on the bottom of the rail on some small blobs on the model - glue hits glue. Railing is thin enough that you can carefully bend into the slight curve needed for most of the deck. If you want to try a more serious curve or even an angle get a mouse pad and gently roll a paint brush handle or pencil across the piece to create a smooth curve. An angle is done on a mouse pad too - but you'd push down in the middle of a piece to create a V shape. In general, I keep railing as simple as possible. Better to put on more small pieces than try to shape larger ones. You can use the angle bend for the bow, but I'd recommend simply putting a strip of railing starting at the bow on each side - they should touch or almost so. A little bit of Aleene's in the middle or a very thin piece of plastic sprue (or brass tube if it's around) can be stuck at the tip of the bow if the railings don't meet right. If you doing a piece of the super structure I would not try complicated bends - again, just cut small pieces and put them in one by one - it's actually quite fast. Once the railing has been "grabbed" by the glue you might want to put a really small bit of CA on to strengthen the fit. My favorite CA applicator is a Xacto knife with a #11 blade that's dedicated to CA work. I put the blade through a little puddle of CA, putting the glue on the knife blade, not the tip - then apply the glue like you were cutting along the side. Less is better.

You want PE at least primed before putting it on. PE does not take to paint well. I craze the stuff with really strong hardware store lacquer thinner (the kind I wouldn't think of using with paints or in an airbrush) or you could even very carefully scratch it up a little with a sanding stone or sand paper. Prime it with what you want - get the primer on, but the least amount needed to cover. Then paint then the appropriate color - again less is better because too much paint can clog up the PE and kind of ruin the effect. It's no trouble to touch up after you're finished, but it's very hard to paint installed railings.

If you're having trouble and you're getting the railings off the sprue cleanly, I'd guess you're using too large a piece. It's also good to handle the stuff with tweezers (I have some good ones, and don't regret the money spent, and Squadron quality work okay) and remember that if you push down on railing with your thumb or anything else they'll collapse. If you're using 1/.600 scale that's probably WEM. They're very good but a little delicate. At a different scale I'd like for something a little tougher like Eduard or Empire - at 1/350 Verlinden sells cheap railings that is almost unbreakable, even if it's a little too thick. But you can do it with WEM - just remember to push directly down on the connection points to separate the piece (never move the knife back and forth) and don't put downward pressure on them - you can very easily tease a slight curve along the deck with your fingers, just use them a little like chop sticks and put the pressure along the sides and bottom of the railing - never up to down.

I had trouble with my first one. After you get the hang of it, you'll be able to rail a ship in an hour. Generic railings usually come with ladders - those are very neat if you get them right. There are instructions on YouTube for ladders - just skip the bit about turning the rungs to an angle. They also have one hand ladders for going up the side of funnels etc. You can use those for railing the superstructure, or putting something around gun tubs - it's not perfect realism but better than nothing.  

Trust me, if I could do this so can anyone. Ships are terrific models, but railing and rigging are a price you have to pay to build a good model ship. If you get into them, you can start using elaborate PE, scratch building and begin to look down on airplane modelers.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, December 12, 2014 10:57 PM

Bish

Bloody Dangler's

Those responsible are your chaps! 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

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