AIRCRAFT - "Prototypes and Paper Projects" Group Build - Still Open.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Filibert Kraxner QUOTE: Originally posted by KJ200 [ As for Hungarian, or Magyar to give it its correct name, have you ever met a Hungarian? I've worked with a few over the years............ Karl Yup, been to Hungary a couple of times and a friend of mine is an Aussie Hungarian (or vice versa, anyway he lives in Rotterdam now...... with a German girlfriend ). Linguistics out!

I work with a half Irish, half Hungarian, who grew up in Rome, attending a French speaking school!!!!

How scary is that?

Linguistics is never off topic!

I did 3 years of Linguistics in university, with a Finnish tutor for one semester!

I'll try and post some pics of the reworked DFS later.

Karl

KJ200- Every time I read your posts, I cringe. I'm thinking Murphy's Law incarnate, here. And it's so tiny, too! Maybe the paint coming off was a good thing. You know, clean slate (kind of) and all that. I hope for better luck in the future!

Filibert- Because of you, I have a new appreciation for my compressor now!

Norite- Going back aways, I have a question about your first project, the Do (2)17/Me 328 Mistel. How big was the Me 328 again? I saw the picture you had with the paint bottle, but it doesn't really help me much. I've never used that kind of piant, so.... there. (A length measurement would be good.)

And even though I don't understand any of it, continued linguistics lessons are fine by me. (For now, anyway...)

hiya, folks !
as promised, i've got some updated shots of the Ho 229 4 u 2 look at,
if i can remember how 2 link 'em.

here u see the plane's subtle mottling of lichtblau over light gull gray
& a little bit of the work i'm doing 2 reshape the exhausts


a closer shot, sorry it's blurry but i figured i'd include it anyhow...


the cockpit closeup


the cockpit, front view

i painted the buckles on the front shoulder harnesses & some retaining straps onto the blue oxygen bottle rite after i viewed these pix... better modelling thanx 2
the wonder of digital photography !

hope u enjoy the pix, & have a great weekend everyone !

frosty

Thanks Lucien, this project has got so close to the bin too many times over the last few weeks!

Still the flaps and ailerons are on. Leading edge slats have been rescribed, and model is now ready for another trip to the paintshop. Just need to mix some paint up now.

Frosty, that Horten is looking very good indeed. You're a long way to making a silk purse out of a Turkish sow's ear!

Karl

As promised a few pic's of the reworked DFS.





The ailerons on the right had side have been replaced with plastic card, as the originals were a little too mashed up for re-use, unlike the ones on the left.

Karl

Frostygirl- That's one nice looking flying wing! The cockpit is really good. Is it almost time to close it up, or is there more work with the jets yet?

KJ200- Well, the flaps look good! It's something, right? Barring all the trouble you've had with it, that little DFS looks pretty good! Who would have expected the ordeal to get there, eh?

Tooling around the internet the other day, I found an interesing pic:

[image]http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/photos/planes/b1741.jpg[/image]

That's a B-17 carrying two JB-2 rockets, the US version of the V-1. I'm thinking it's just post-war. For those who don't know, when the He-111 carried it's V-1, the wings were small enough for the pulsejet to stick out above the wing in back:

[image]http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/v1-1.jpg[/image]

Obviously this wouldn't work with the B-17 (and, in my case, the Ju 290Z), so the solution was to build a trapeze for each.

My whole point with this is to show you all a possibility of how I might attach my Reichenberg IVs when I get them. (No one knows more the importance of research than me! )

Lucien, it's good to actually be making some progress, though effort is currently divided between a Polikapov I-16 and a Fw190 which doesn't help.

The Reichenberg idea sounds good, I look forward to seeing your completed model.

Karl

That's some good progress you guys! Frosty, that 229 of yours is starting to look really good now! Although..... being slightly color-challenged () I must admit I can't see any mottling of blue on grey. To me it's just one color, which probably means you did a really subtle job . Now you know why I like FS and paint numbers in my references!

Karl, the preparation/reparation you did on that little flying wing of yours looks very meticulate indeed. I'm sure the finished model will look stunning (like the I-16 ). By the way, guess I had you figured about right regarding the linguistic interest huh? Do you use your studies in your current profession at all, or have you ventured into some other area?

Lucien, you hadn't already forgotten what life was like pre-compressor had you? When and if funds are available after we move to the new place (not bloody likely), I'd like to get one of those big industrial gass bottles to drive my airbrush. I'll have neighbours to think about you see (noise), and good silent compressors seem extremely expensive to me. What I do have are the ingredients (fan, ducting) to build my own spray booth: wicked.

Modeling-wise, I'm currently fighting another one of my nemeses: gloss white paint. To be more precise I'm trying to get a coat into the wheel bays of the YF-23 that will actually cover and not pull into all the recesses and corners. Of course I haven't primed the surface but I'm spraying onto two layers of Humbrol grey already so I figured that would do okay...... I thought wrong. Any of you have a tip on getting that awful white to cover entirely (I'm onto my third coat already and the layers are getting a bit thick)?

Filibert,

To avoid spraying many coats of gloss white to get good coverage, try spraying two light coats of flat white first and later spray your gloss white. This works very good for getting even coverage when spraying gloss yellow or white colors.

Matrixone

Flat white first eh? Thanks for the tip man, I'll remember that!

Filibert thanks for your comments. It's nice to actually have the little DFS moving along, thought it has been somewhat neglected due to work on the I-16.

I don't understand what went wrong with the Vallejo, but I'll put a post on the painting forum to see if anyone else knows.

As for the linguistics, I considered doing a Masters, followed by a PHD, but just couldn't face another 3 or 4 years of study. So like everyone else without a clue about what career they want to persue, I drifted into IT. Now I'm a change manager for Marks & Spencer in the UK. I did use the language skills for a few years providing support to the European stores, but when they were closed down, that all went out the window.

Matrixone beat me to it with the matt white first. This always works better than a straight gloss white.

Karl

Some progress pics of my models for this group build,



The Fw 190 D has been a bit of a challenge to build so far because of a few areas on the model that did not seem to fit very well, but I think the worst of the fit problems are behind me. The landing gear might be some trouble, the picture of the completed model on the side of the box shows the landing gear angled way to far towards the rear of the airplane, I don't know if it is a flaw in the design of the model or an error by the person who built the model for the photos that appear on the box.
The resin Ta 152 style tail used on this model fit very good and was the easiest part of this build so far.
Markings for this rare late war Fw will come from several different decal sheets since the only pictures I have ever seen of this aircraft are in that old Russian book given to me years ago so I don't think there will be any decal sheets with these markings produced anytime soon.

The Do 335 has been much more of a fun model to make except for the gaps in the wing roots that needed filling with putty and sanded smooth.
For such an old kit it is starting to look very good and might turn out far better than I expected, I am glad I waited until now to build this kit.

On pic #2 you can see the box top of my next planned model for this group build, the Amtech Ta 183. I ordered three PM 1/72 scale Ta 183s this past week and plan to build them so I can do a ''photo/diorama'' of an operational Ta 183 airfield, Luft 46 style.

Besides the Do 335 and Fw 190 D-? I am building a shot down Fw 190 A that made a forced landing wheels up from an old Testors 1/72 scale kit, this is one of several older kits that will be built as shot down or damaged aircraft for my photobase pictures.
A great reference book I just bought last week is ''Bodenplatte'' there are many good pictures of downed German aircraft and destroyed Allied planes, this has got to be the best book ever on the Luftwaffe attack on the Allied airfields in Jan. 1945.

Matrixone

Good to see you are making progress Matrixone. And thanks again for the tip on the flat white. I didn't have any around that hadn't gone bad (recognise that anyone?), but I did have about five bottles of semigloss white (I must be very forgetful when I'm in the LHS), which worked fine too. So all being well in the landing gear department, I have decided to add the decals to the upper half of the kit. I never realised that YF-23 was covered in 'no step' markings back to front. Anyway, sealed those with another coat of future. I'll probably add the last few decals to the underside tonight and then shoot a flat coat. Fingers crossed it should be done by this evening. And..... you'll have to take my word for it. Alas no pictures.

Filibert- Don't get me started on "No Step" decals! At least 150 of them on the B-36! Talk about patience... Anyhoo, good to "see" decals on a project. That's always my favorite part. It actually starts to look like an aircraft!

Matrixone- From what I see, both of your projects look like they're going fine!

Thanks for the white undercoat tip, too. I'll probably have to use it on my A-17 trainer (eventually.) Blue fuselage and yellow wings and tail. Eep.

Things are a little slow on my end, modelling wise. I finally started making the turrets for my B-36, and it's going more or less smoothly. Keep an eye out for pics in the Aircraft Forum soon!

Hopefully I'll get the check for the 290s and 328 in the mail by the end of the week. We shall see. We shall see...

Filibert and Lucien,

Glad to hear you tried the flat white base coat idea, when I paint Eastern front yellow fuselage bands and wing tips on my Luftwaffe models I always spray a very light coat of flat white first before spraying the yellow paint. If I don't do this I never can get a proper coat of yellow to look right without very heavy coats of paint with a lot of wasted paint and time.

Matrixone

Matrixone, that 190 is not the easiest of kits.

Mine now resides in a box in the cupborad under the stairs, so disgusted was I with the fit!

The base coat of white is a must for either yellow or red I find, otherwise you end up plying countless coats of yellow, and it never looks right!

Glad that the 335 is proving more fun.

Lucien, I don't envy you the B36, that's a lot of bomber to be building.

Karl

Karl,

That D-11 ProModeler kit has been quite a challenge to build so far, the molding and quality of the parts looks very good, but it is too bad some of the large parts don't fit together better than they do because it nearly ruins an otherwise good kit.

Matrixone

Karl (or KJ200, I don't know! I like to flip-flop.)- Belive it or not, the B-36 is actually a pretty simple kit to put together! Other than the size, it really pretty much falls together. The worst part of the whole thing is finishing it, with the NMF and all. If you have the space, I highly recommend it to anyone!

I'm probably going to put the order for Squadron in the mail tomorrow. I'm getting a little fed up with not having anything. Unfortunatly, I have no paint, either, so work on the Ju 290's won't commence for a while. I just figure I'll start the Me 328, and start looking for ways to make the Argus pulsejets. I put in a couple job applications just the other day, so I'll hopefully have a fixed source of income relativly soon.

Karl & Lucien:
thanx 4 the comments on my project !
i was thinking about scratchbuilding something that resembled
jet engines inside the nacelles, but then i thought about whether
the landing gear would b able 2 take the extra weight...
i'd most likely have 2 redo the gear w/ metal tubing
not 2 mention having 2 cut open the fuselage panels & thin them a bit
i'm still undecided...
but i did put some thin tubing into the wings 2 represent the 30mm cannon.
i used the metal tubing from testor's liquid cement, it looks close 2 a 30mm or
.50 cal barrel in 1/72 & didn't cost me anything extra, but it was difficult 2 cut
being very small, round & hard !
nice work on the DFS, Karl... i'm liking the dropped ailerons...
sounds like u will remember this build !
& good luck w/ ur job applications, Lucien !
Filibert:
thanx ! i'm not surprised u can't see the blue,
it really is just about invisible in the pix... in this case, better too
little than too much, i think... i'm just starting 2 use an airbrush 4 painting ,
what an adventure !
matrixone:
sounds like u've got ur hands full on this one.
i can't wait 2 c ur Huckebein flight line...

frosty

Well, it's official- in true lawyer fashion, the check will be in the mail by the end of the week!



Depending on how long it takes Squadron to ship it, I'll actually be in for the first time in three months! (More, because I'm looking off the first post, which I edited about three months ago!)

But....

As I said, I don't have much else to start. So, I'll work on the Me 328, and do my best to get the center wing section perfect. God knows it'll probably take as long as it takes to get a job! (i.e., get some money! )

Speaking about the wing, this is how I plan to do it- I'll use the cutout of the actual wing as a template, and using 1mm stock make a more or less solid series of ribs. This I'll sand to the final shape, if not the final surface texture, then cover it with a thinner (possibly heat-formed or heat-aided) sheet of plastic. Although this is a little more wasteful then open spaces between the ribs, it also allows for less error in building. Which everyone knows I need lots of!

I also found a photo of the paint sceme I plan to use. (As the actual colors are black and two shades of gray, it's pretty accurate.)
[image]http://www.makettinfo.hu/makett/anyagok/referencia/historia/kep_600.jpg[/image]

It's a little bad, but it's the best photo I could find. Also, you'll notice the clear nose. That's because it's an A-7 version, not the A-5 like I plan to make. Unless they come out with an A-7 conversion set, which I might consider getting!

Frosty, that sounds like a lot of work!!!

Glad you like the DFS, it should get some paint this weekend, hopefully.

Lucien, does the 290 wing taper from the root or outboard of the 1st engine? If from the engine that should at least only leave you with a relatively small area to build.

Karl

Karl- The wing started tapering from the first engine. This is one of the reasons that (knock on wood) this build won't be as hard as you'd think, and first glance. Looking at the kit on the internet, the distance between engines might only be about an inch or so. Lucky for me.

Lucien, have you tried looking in an LHS that deals in RC aircraft? The reason I say this, is because they often stock a large range on aerofoil section balsa in various sizes, which might go some way towards making your build easier.

My Fw190 and Hagelkorn are almost complete, so I'll post some pics as soon as its done, especially of the Hagelkorn as that was definitely a prototype.

I now have the PM Ta183 as well, and have raided the spares box for a Fw190 cockpit, complete with seat, instruments etc. as well as repplacement wheels, again from a 190. All of which will improve considerable on what was in the box, or more accurately, what was not in the box. I'll post some pics of this soon as well.

Karl

Karl- As a matter of fact, the two near me both stock some RC aircraft stuff. I'll be sure to look into that. If I do get one of those, though, I'll probably have to seal it, somehow. Something tells me a simple coat of paint won't cut it.

In other news...
For your Ta 183, I just did a quick Google search on it, and back came a whole bunch of stuff, including some interior veiws. It could help. Regardless, the 183 is a nice little airplane (I think), and figured it was only a matter of time before someone did one.

Does anyone know about how long it takes Squadron to ship something, ground? (Cheapest way possible.)

Karl,

Now that you have that PM Ta 183 kit, what do you think of it? For the low cost of the kit its not bad at all.

Last night the first paint was sprayed on the Do 335 and Fw 190 D models, more colors will be added later today.
The painting of that Focke-Wulf will take a long time, RLM 02, 04, 74, 75, 76, 81, 82, and bare metal will be sprayed this weekend. The reason so many colors are needed on this airplane is because it was a prototype that was taken over by the Luftwaffe in the last weeks of the war and pressed into service with little changes made in the paint work, some Focke-Wulf prototypes were made from recycled airframes and had a mix of old and new parts and I will attempt to mimic this effect on my model. This is the most difficult paint job I have ever attempted. But if all goes well I will have a very colorful Dora!

The Do 335 will also have an interesting camouflage, uppersufaces will have RLM 75 mottle over a base coat of 76 and 81 and 82 ''scribble'' over that with all undersurfaces black.

Matrixone

Sounds like a busy day (week) in the paint shop, matrixione! And to think, the Fw 190 was like that to save time! Give me a few days to look up the RLM numbers for the Do 335, but it seems pretty cool from what I can remember!

I've reached a conclusion. You see, when I try to wire more than three engines in a curcuit, they all don't run at the same speed. Some slow down while others speed up. If I try to put four engines together, at least one stops altogether, no matter how much voltage I hook it up to. In light of this, it has prompted me to a somewhat drasic conclusion. Each motor will have it's own "button" battery, seperate curcuit, and seperate switch. True, it's ineffeicient, but I know it works, will fit inside the model, and plus, now I can start them up the same way the big boys do- one at a time! I know there's probably a much better way to do this, but I'm no electrician. This I can live with. And besides, now I can replace batteries as I need to, insead of all at once.

(Oh, and I've departed from civility, and trying to "hide" the batteries inside fuel tanks and whatnot. The right fuselage will just hold all eight batteries and switches, and I'll just cover it with the Me 328. I might paint the windows over, too, and construct a bulkhead behind the compartment to conceal it all from the Trapoklappe. There's room for it all, I'm sure.)

Lucien,

It was a mistake thinking I could paint both the Dora and the Do 335 in the same painting sessions, I forgot how long it takes to paint the nightfighter style of mottled camouflage and my hand was nearly cramping up even before I got around to painting the Fw 190.
And when I did start spraying the 190 I forgot to slightly lighten the RLM 75 beforehand and it came out darker than I wanted it to. I might try spraying some thinner with a couple drops of white paint mixed in it in a few areas to lighten the RLM 75 slightly. This will not be easy without effecting the other colors, light ''dust'' coats in a few areas might be able to give the RLM 75 the slightly faded effect I wanted in the first place.

I might post a couple pics of what I have done so far later this weekend.

Matrixone

Sorry to hear about the painting escapades you've gone through. My thoughts would be to mask off the panels you want to spray, and cover the rest of the aircraft somehow to prevent overspray. Then again, I've never used an airbrush, and besides, you know better than anyone what needs to be done.

The only thing new for today it the obvious- I changed my signature block to have a three-view of the Ju 290Z instead of the color drawing. The scales on the old one were a little skewed, anyway. (I expect the Me 328 to be a little larger.) Also, you can see exactly what I have to scratchbuild, the center rectangle on the overhead view.

Other than that, not much new. I hope to get the check in the mail tomorrow. (Yes, I already said I did it, but I guess I lied. Soon, though. Soon.) Just checking on a few finalities (Engine construction and whatnot) before the kits arrive. All and all a little slow.

Lucien,

That Ju 290Z is a very large airplane! I have no doubt you will be successful in scratch building the new wing section joining the two airframes, but you might have some problems with possibly breaking the new wing center section when the model is handled during the painting process. It looks like the middle of the wing will be a weak point prone to cracking or worse.
Also what paint and markings do you have in mind for your Ju 290Z? I have seen the photo of the captured Ju 290 you posted, the camouflage on that airplane is not standard for Ju 290s, most photos I have of the Ju 290 appear to have the standard factory camouflage of RLM 72 Green, 73 Green, and 65 Light Blue. Model Master makes enamel paints of those RLM colors if you are interested.
I also like that camouflage on the Ju 290 that has the gray and black paint job and was thinking of building one and using that camouflage scheme on it.

I have been very sick the last 12 hours and will wait until next weekend to try and fix my painting boo-boos, my hands are very shaky right now and am just too weak to try and do any modeling now.

Matrixone

QUOTE: Originally posted by matrixone Now that you have that PM Ta 183 kit, what do you think of it? For the low cost of the kit its not bad at all.

Matrixone, you really can't complain for that price!

First impressions are of a fairly basic kit, that with a little bit of work should produce a fairly passable model.

I've painted the ex-Fw 190 cockpit, it just needs a black wash applied, then I'll be ready to put the fusalage halves together. I'm looking to detail the wheel bays, and I'll replace the wheels with a set of Fw190 ones which look a lot better than the kit ones. Currently toying with the idea of cutting out the flaps and ailerons, hmmmm we'll see.

Hope you feel better soon by the way.

Lucien, have you thought about adding a styrene or spruce wing spar to the wing joint? Also most RC shops sell a filler primer which will seal the grain on the balsa, and allow you a solid base for a top coat.

Hopefully I'll post some pictures tonight, not just the DFS, but also my Fw190 & Hagelkorn.

Karl