AIRCRAFT - "Prototypes and Paper Projects" Group Build - Still Open.

edzachary- If that would work, it would be perfect. Really the only thing that could worry me is the fact that the melting temp of plastic is slightly higher than that of wax, and the fact some plastic could stick to the inside of the first pan. (I could just use a "junker" one, so it wouldn't matter much.) This I will have to try.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lucien Harpress Anyway, the plan now is to fill the vac shape with something that will harden and allow me to sand this piece to the final, sturdier shape. Only two things come to mind that I can fill it with- resin (too expensive), or a "liquid" plastic (if it exists). I need something that will make a solid, sturdy structure, but can hold up if I end up sanding through the original plastic (which will happen is some places, I guarentee). Does anyone have any ideas?

i know a way you can get "liquid styrene". take several pieces of sprue (this is the reason i keep a really big boxful.) and throw them in a small, but deep pan. in another pan that the first will fit in, bring some water to a boil. put the first pan in the second and wait for the sprues to melt. then quickly pour the melted sprues into your mold. of course, be careful and use common sense when using the boiling hot water. ive never tried this method with plastc, but i know it will melt wax very fast. my used to make candles and this is how she would melt her wax. good luck. later.
Jon

I belive someone else is doing that aircraft, too. Norite, I think. He's in the middle of something right now, so he hasn't been able to post for a while. Still, it's a good choice. I'll be eager to hear of progress!

Thanks for letting me join. I'll be building A-Model's Bf 109Z 1/72 scale.

Wooverstone- Sure! What'd ya' got? (Or have in mind?)

Matrixone- Ouch. I don't think I've told you before, but I've had my share of busted props. The Ju 290 has over 200 parts on four or five sprues. All in one bag. Between the two boxes four props have fallen off, and one of those has had a blade broken off. Twice. Fortunatly the break was a clean one, and the ends matched up again real nice. It's not going to be a problem. (Knock on wood).

I made an extremly rough prototype (ha ha) of the vac gondola. I'm happy with the shape, size, etc, but the overall surface texture leaves much to be desired. Seeing as how my master was a lump of clay, I'm suprised with what I did get. Anyway, the plan now is to fill the vac shape with something that will harden and allow me to sand this piece to the final, sturdier shape. Only two things come to mind that I can fill it with- resin (too expensive), or a "liquid" plastic (if it exists). I need something that will make a solid, sturdy structure, but can hold up if I end up sanding through the original plastic (which will happen is some places, I guarentee).

Does anyone have any ideas?

Apart from that, progress is a little slow, due to (what else) lack of funds. Then again, I really don't want to rush this project. I want to make it a good one, as this is most likely the only one of these I will ever make!

What's your model, Wooverstone??! We'd like to know!

No progress on the Floh today (I did paint the propeller, so there is a bit of progress all the same) as I've been working real hard on my T34 diorama 'Red Storm Rising'... I'm in the figure painting stage there now, so we can expect that work o the Floh will resume very soon! I'm so close to completing it..!

Hi

Can I join?

Frosty,

You are not the only one who has suffered a set back in a model, early today while working on my Do 335 I got out of my chair and as I was standing up I felt and heard a crunch... it was the rear propeller of the 335!!!
Last night I planned on gluing the props on the 335 and I remember gluing the front prop on, but forgot the rear prop was only pushed into place and it fell off when handling the model this morning.
The prop has all three blades snapped off but it is fixable.

The Fw 190D and Do 335 models will be done this weekend, pics should be posted as early as Sunday, depends on the fixing of that broken prop.

Matrixone

Domi:
the Flea is looking great !
without the wings on, it kind of resembles a barrage balloon...
atlho' at 180 km/h, it went a lot faster !

unfortunately, nothing new 2 report here...
i'm still not over my canopy debacle & am finding it a bit hard
2 return 2 the project rite now...
but i really like this machine & do want 2 finish the model
so i will try & get 2 it this weekend, 'cause if i don't, it'll b like
not getting back on the horse that threw u...

frosty

Thad- Don't wory about it! The 335 will be fine. I'm real leinient about what you can build. Besides, it's not that much of a stretch. Right now (off the top of my head) I think there's only six or seven people in this build, including me. Anyone new is welcomed with open arms!

I tried some vac-forming with the right kind of plastic last night, and I'm encouraged by it. It's not that hard! It could work for the gondola.

Thanks for the invite, The DO 335 was all I had in my pile. If this is to much of a reach I will be glad to pass on this build thanks again. Maybe I can add 2 or 3 more engines would that make it a prototype(lol)

Thad

You're right, Mike. The Linke-Hoffman was used to try out this clear cellon covering. Did not work, not anymore than the plane..!

I think your idea of showing the modifications on the two aircraft through minor changes in the paint scheme is a good one.

Karl- Sometimes I wonder.... Just call me a glutton for punishment.

DJ- Okay. I think I read something about the Linke-Hoffman R.I somewhere. Wasn't that the one that supposedly had clear fuselage walls to hide it in the air? Something like that.

And yes, the engines are staggered on the center section. That's because the "real" thing was built the same way mine is/was- instead of a whole new wing section (like the He 111Z), just a tiny section between engines four and five was used. If you'll see, the engines on the outer wings are staggered, too.

I'd like to do something with the paint sceme to reflect this. My thoughts are that the fuselages are going to be painted a slightly faded black (to show war wear and tear), while the center section and -B modifications a slightly darker black to show where newer sections were added later.

Mike, I just noticed that the 4 engines on the middle section of the wings are staggered..! That's different!

DJ the Floh is coming along beautifully, very colourful.

Mike, you don't believe in an easy life do you?

Karl

Mike, aerodynamic was the reason for the deep fuselage. As such, it completely covered the engine and radiator, and it did away with some of the struts (the cabane ones, normally linking the fuselage to the top wing). This little Flea was able to demonstrate, back in 1916, a top speed of 180km/h. Definitely a great performance for that time!

Note that the Flea was not the only aircraft of similar look ever designed; here's the Linke-Hoffman R.I bomber, with 4 engines buried inside the fuselage:

Belive it or not, German markings make it look a LOT better.
.....
That airplane is just not right! Is there a reason the fuselage is so deep? Large experimental engine, perhaps? Or just someone's twisted asthetic sense?

I've been playing with one idea for the gondola today. I have a bunch of clay laying around not doin' nothin', so I did a little something with it. If it can survive the vac process of at least once, I can then make the other using the first one. We'll see.

Hmmmmm......

Does anyone have any good pics of the remote dorsal turrets?
Just kidding!

I hope I'm entertaining everyone!

Mike, you are crazier than I thought! But this is an exciting project to follow!

So, welcome Thad..! I love the Pfeil. I'll be looking forward to seeing your progress.

Things are going well for the Floh at the moment. Here's a graphic proof of my progress.



White has been airbrushed over the wings and vertical stabilizer, decals added over those white areas and under the bottom wings, and a coat of Future has been brusged all over fuselage and wings. Another coat should give me the 'satiny' finish I require...

More tomorrow!

Ah. One of those "border" aircraft (the Arado Ar 234 was mentioned also): is it a production fighter, or just a "prototype" that saw limited service? Because I alway encourage participation, and I like a relaxed way of doing things, (and because matrixone is already in the middle of one) I'm inclined to say- why not?

to the Group Build! (If you're interested, just copy the badge from my signature. If you need help on how to, just say so.)

Looking over schematics of the A- and B- versions of the Ju 290, I noticed the ventral gondola is not going to be able to incorperated into the kit part. So instead of just grafting an extention onto the kit gondola as I had intended, I'll have to vac-form an entire gondola+fairing Harder to do- yes. Doable- also yes.

Other planned modifications include a ventral remote turret, simple by comparison. The reason this whole conversion idea is easy is because the kit nose part is seperated on a convient line, I won't need to take a razor saw to any main kit parts until I know I can make the required changes.

Thad, we'll let Mike (aka Lucien) decide on that one... He's the boss in here!

Can anyone tell me if a DO 335 will be acceptable for this build?

Thad

Matrixone - just go to www.the-lem.com and fill in the applic form. Nothing difficult, I assure you. It's run by a number of people you'll instantly recognize..! Nice crowd!

Mike - That's the thing, the pilot did not see a thing! So the plane crashed!

DJ,
How does one join ''The League of Extraordinary Modellers''? Please let me know more about this group.
That ''Floh'' is coming along nicely, looks like your Macchi is getting close to be painted, those Macchi fighters are neat looking aircraft.

Lucien,
For heat forming new canopies thin plastic sheets from a hobby shop or craft store will work fine, plastic water bottles are not recommended because the plastic has already been heated once to form the bottle and that kind of plastic used to make the water bottles is a different type than whats needed for heat forming a new canopy.
The crinkling you experienced is to be expected when trying to reheat one of those water bottles.

Matrixone

djmodels1999- Ah. So THAT'S what it looks like. Just one quick question- how was the pilot supposed to see out the front?

matrixone- Thanks for the advice on the home vac process. Just one question- I may have been using the wrong plastic (too thick, etc.), but when I tried to do a little test it just crinkled up in the middle and didn't "melt". Has this ever happened to you? (True, I was using a cut up soda bottle, so I don't know if this tendancy is only restricted to that type of plastic. I don't know. That's why I'm asking!)

Like I said, I'd like to see if I can accomplish an unpressurized Ju 290Z-B (?) version. As you saw before the most blatent differences are the two four-gun turrets on the nose and tail. What I'd like to know is- do any of you know where to find pics of the inside of something like this? The four-gun British turrets come to mind. I know, wrong country, but my rationale is that they should look similar inside. Any ideas? Thanks.

As promised, here'as a pic of the little Floh, showing off it's brand new color scheme. This would have been a 'normal' type of scheme for 1917.



More pics in the main Aircraft Forum...

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27777

Frosty and Lucien,

When I heat formed my canopy I used a single candle as a heat source, when holding the clear plastic square over the candle the plastic will start to droop in the center, at that point quickly pull the molten plastic over the part to be duplicated and wait a few seconds and remove the original part and then cut and trim the heat formed part as needed.
Never use a heat gun to melt the plastic because there is no or little control an how fast the plastic heats up, it is way too easy to heat the plastic too much.

HTH

Matrixone

djmodels1999- WWI isn't my forte, so visuallization of the camo is a little difficult. Still, progress is always good to hear. Very intrested in pics!

frostygirl- If I've learned anything from your vac-forming ordeal, I know not to go too hot on the "melting" of the plastic! I may have to do some of my own, but we'll get to that later.

Okay, it's later. As you might know, I get many ideas, many of which never reach fruition. This may be another one, but I'll fly it past you anyway. If you don't know, I'm trying to fengale some A-7 nose pieces from someone who has an earlier vac kit. But if that doesn't pan out, I had another idea- why not go whole hog and go for the B version?

[image]http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/ju290-4.jpg[/image]
[image]http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/ju290-5.jpg[/image]

The top pic is of an A-2, which is basically an A-5 with different upper turrets. Anyway, you can see the differences- the front and back turrets are the most obvious, while the ventral turret is not so obvoius. Some things, like the windows, I don't want to do anything with. As I see it, the hardest part of this project will be the gondola fairing. As soon as I figure out an easy way to do it, this could be a viable possibility.

(Also the turrets are wrong from the A-5 to the B. However, if I'm not wrong, there never was a planned "production" B model, they were just planned conversions from A models. I'll leave the turrets and windows alone, and just say it was a conversion that wasn't complete/non-pressurized version. That's what I think a lot of the differences-turrets, windows- stem from. Whaddaya think?)

QUOTE: Originally posted by djmodels1999 At least you learned something, Frosty!!

that's 4 sure !!!!
best of luck w/ ur painitng the camo, can't wait 2 c the flea !

frosty

At least you learned something, Frosty!!

Well, as promised, the Floh got its upper side base camo colour, red-brown. Tomorrow, I may airbrush the green..! I'm trying something different with this biplane, painting/varnishing/decalling/sealing the major sub-assemblies before I attach the wings to the fuselage. That's what I normally do with airliners but because this thing is so small, I feel it will ease the painting of the camo.

Maybe pics tomorrow, then!

QUOTE: Originally posted by matrixone When vac-forming parts at home it is very important to have the right thickness and quality of plastic sheet. If the plastic is too thick it requires more heat to soften it and when it makes contact with the original part it could melt or distort it. Years ago I heat formed a new canopy from a kit part with no melting effect at all, but it did take four tries to get it right. If you try heat forming new parts it would be a good idea to try it on older unwanted kit parts first to avoid any costly errors on your new models.

& don't use a heat gun that puts out 850 degrees like i did...
i'll use the hair dryer insead of the paint stripper next time !!!

frosty