AIRCRAFT - "Prototypes and Paper Projects" Group Build - Still Open.

KJ200- For my sake, I hope you're right! It's a Revell Germany kit, though, and spirals were never used (if my memory is correct) on a Ju 290. Just in case they don't come with any, I have four methods I'd like to try.

1. Paint the spinners white, then mask off a spiral with a very thin strip of masking tape. Spray the black, then peel off the mask. More than likely the line will be crude, so I plan to go over it again, clean it up, with a small brush, using the line before as a guide.

2. Just paint the spirals freehand, after I paint the spinners black. This obviously is the method with most room for error.

3. Try to jerry-rig some sort of "helping hand" dealie, with a paintbush set on a stationary arm, and the spinner temporarily mounted on a screw, so when I turn it, the spiral will paint itself.

4. Get some white decal film, cut strips out, apply those, and paint the curve right on the nose of the spinner.

As you can see, every single method is asking for trouble. Why do I get myself into these things....?

Matrixone- (As you have the only color diagram of the sceme I want to use.) The pic I posted a couple pages back is the only photo I have of the sceme I want to use, and it's not the greatest of quality. My question is, do to colors and makeup look anything like the sceme used on this 1:48 He 177?

http://www.squadron.com/old/he177a3/he177a3review.htm

I know the RLM numbers are wrong for the upper surfaces, but is it the same type of sceme? Or are the mottles on the 290 larger? Anything would be appreciated! Thanks!

Lucien,

If you have an old model of an aircraft that is propeller driven use its spinner to practice painting the spiral before you try it on your 290Z.


Mount your spinner on the end of a toothpick to make it easy to handle during painting.
Paint your spinner gloss black (enamel) let it dry at least one day.
Use fresh white enamel paint and a 000 fine brush and paint a thin spiral on your spinner, if you need to widen the white area of the spiral don't try and paint too much in one sitting because white paint gets sticky very quick.
If you get the white paint where you don't want it carefully touch up any mistakes with the gloss black, this method works very well for me.

Give me a few days to look up the info on the Ju 290, I have a LOT of books and I am away from home 12 hours on most weekdays.
I have at least one book that has a few good pictures of the Ju 290 you are interested in,
including a really cool in-flight photo.

Matrixone

Matrixone- Don't worry too much about it. I have all the time in the world. Thanks for the advice on the spirals. I will be sure to try that out. In the meantime, I found a slightly better picture of the sceme I want to use. (By the way, all the picutres are of a captured Ju 290 A-7, the famous "Alles Kaput".)

[image]http://europa1939.com/luftwaffe/reconocimiento/ju290-1.jpg[/image]

Still, it's not the greatest of pictures, but I can kind of get a little better sense of the size of the mottles. But if you have a better one (color profile, prehaps?), and you are already looking for it, thanks!

That's it for me! (For a while, anyway...)

Lucien,

Very good news, I found that book with SIX photos of ''Alles Kaput'', and a color illustration showing most of the uppersurfaces.
Even better yet one of the photos is an inflight shot showing the camouflage mottling very well.
If you are interested in photocopys of these pictures E-mail me and give me information where to send them via snail mail.

Here is a pic of a model that has the spirals painted on the dark green spinners(very unusual), I painted the spinners green and when those were dry they were sprayed with clear gloss and later the spiral was added, these thin style spirals were more touchy to paint than any model I have built before or since because there was no room for error.


Matrixone

Lucien, I've found some further pictures of both 290s & 390 on the following site:

www.luftarchiv.de/

It is German, but has an English navigation option as well. I know I've mentioned it before to Frosty, but it is definitely worth a look, especially for detail and some interior shots.

As for the spirals the spinners will be the same as those for a 190, so perhaps an AM decal sheet might provide what you want.

As for me, the DFS has received it's sludge wash and just needs a matt coat, and then a bit of work on the canopy and it should be finished at the weekend.

The Ta183 is now back in the workshop for seam and surface rectification after the test paint showed a number of small problems, not least of which was the bobble affect on the surface of the plastic showing through the paint. I've now sanded the whole thing smooth, and filled a few minor imperfections, so it should go back into the paint shop this weekend.

Karl

QUOTE: Originally posted by KJ200 Lucien, I've found some further pictures of both 290s & 390 on the following site: www.luftarchiv.de/ It is German, but has an English navigation option as well. I know I've mentioned it before to Frosty, but it is definitely worth a look, especially for detail and some interior shots. Karl

Lucien:
Karl is rite, the luftarchiv site is a great resource & most definitely worth the trip !
i was able 2 do the interior details 4 the 229 thanx 2 info i found there...
thanx again, Karl !
matrixone:
i love those flightline shots, keep 'em coming !
& good luck w/ the wing repair !!

as for me, i'm approaching the point where i have 2 deal w/ the canopy issue...
do i try & heat stretch a new canopy so i can cut it & position it opened up,
or just Future the kit canopy ? either way, then i'll have 2 mask & paint it,
& frankly, i'm scared of that step ! so i've been putting it off as long as i can...
but i'll have 2 do it at some point....

frosty

Here's how things stand at the moment with the little Floh...



Slowly getting there. I swear the 1/72 vacuform kit I built nearly 15 years ago was easier than this 1/48 Eduard kit!

Matrixone- Thanks! Give me a couple days to drop you an e-mail. I'm doing this from home right now, with a Dial-up connection, so with pictures and all that, it's taking a while. Couple this with the fact I'm writing this at 11:00 at night doesn't help at all! I'll get it though.

KJ200- I know the link very well. I used it a few times when I was looking up stuff for Fritz X missiles and Hs 293 missiles, etc. a while back. I agree, it's a good site. Thanks for putting it down!

Djmodels1999- Good to have you back! You haven't posted in a while, but from the looks of it, youv'e been busy. It looks nice! You know- that Floh was one ugly little biplane! Keep up the good work!

As for myself, I've made a breakthrough on the motorization front. It was actually something that was staring me in the face the whole time- PARALLEL CURCUITS! You see, I'm only working with masking tape, four motors I tore out of various junk appliances, and a couple of batteries. Up until now, parallel curcuits have been hard to reproduce. Until last night. I strung three of them together, and I ran them off two AA batteries. This was compared to unsatisfactory results with a 9 volt wired in series. This has solved many problems for me, in terms of battery choice. I am very happy this new development.

Until next time...

DJ from the photo I'm guessing that the Floh is pretty small, even in 1/48. It looks like you're making good progress though.

Why is it proving so tough, I would have thought anything apart from a Dragon kit was easier than 1/72 vacform!

Karl

I've kind of had a change of heart, as it were. Although spirals would be awsome on a motorized model, I barely trust my skills to do it right eight times. I'm not saying I won't try it- I'm just saying Plan B is looking a lot more appealing.

Which brings me to plan B. While most Luftwaffe aircraft with warning devices had spirals, some also had just straight multicolored spinners. I've seen a few Bf 109s with it, and at least a drawing of one Ju 188 with them too. The effect won't be as cool, but they are massivly easier to reproduce many times.

Like I said, spirals are not out of the question. But the fact is, my skill are only so-so. I'll try, but... it's not looking good.

P.S.- Matrixone- you should have got my e-mail. I just sent it. Thanks for access to those photos! OH, the Bf 109 looks great!

Lucien,

Sorry to hear you might not go with the spirals on your Ju 290 Z, it would have looked awesome!

Here is a couple more in-progress pics, not much done on the Fw lately but I finished the mottling and added most of the decals on the Do 335, tomorrow the 335 will get the scribble of RLM 81 and RLM 82 sprayed on. This will make or break this model, if I screw up the paint work I might just toss this one in the rubbish bin and forget about it. Thats why I took these pics when I did so you can see the Do 335 before its possibly ruined!




Matrixone

Matrixone, both birds are looking very good.

But that spinner is never going to fit on either of those aircraft!!!

Karl

Thanks Karl,

Right now I have ''modelers block'', I know I have to deal with that Fw 190 landing gear this weekend and I have been warned to expect some trouble with the fit of some of the parts. I have been working on the Do 335 more lately to dodge the Fw landing gear woes.
Now I am at a point on the Do 335 where a very difficult paint job will be attempted and since this will be sprayed freehand the slightest mistake could ruin the whole project. I might take a break from modeling for a week or two until I feel up to the challenge, modelling is supposed to be fun but at this moment this is not fun.

The large spinner in the background of my pics is a backup part from one of my RC planes and if you think the spinner is large you should have seen the plane it was mounted to!

Matrixone

Matrixone- I agree, they both look great. I wish you the best of luck with the scribble pattern.

Like I said, I have a few techniques I'd like to try out when I eventually (try to) paint the spirals. My biggest concern, as I think I said before, is not the actual painting of one. That much I think I could handle. It's the reproduction of that seven more times, keeping the same spacing and angle of the spiral. I will try to reproduce it a few times, but if stuff totally gets crazy and skewed on about the fourth one, there is always the option of overspraying everything and trying the multicolored version. My biggest issue right now is to try and find a way to lay out (not necissarily paint) a spiral that I can do many times. In other words, I need to find or make some kind of template.

As I said before, my wiring "discovery" has prompted a flurry of redesigning of the eventual wiring diagram. I won't bore you with the details, but I can say my main problem in that area has shifted from too little power to issues with battery life. And I'll take the second problem over the first any day!

Keep up the excellent work everybody!

Matrixone, if you are worried about screwing up the exsiting finish on the 335 when you apply the scribble pattern, there is a way of protecting it.

Just give the entire model a coat of Future and allow to harden for a few days. Then, if when you apply the scribble, there are any areas you are not happy with, you can just wipe the scribble off with a little acrylic thinner on a cloth, without damaging the underlying paint finish.

It's not my idea, but one I read about, that was developed in response to the need to paint scribble over the top of existing camo patterns.

Karl

Karl,

That is a great idea about coating the model with future to protect the old finish from possible mistakes with the new coats of paint.
Last night I went ahead and sprayed that scribble on the Do 335, it was not as bad as I thought it would be. This is going to be one wild looking 335!

How is your Ta 183 turning out?

When I build my Amtech Ta 183 I might try painting the fuselage with Alclad II and painting a very light coat RLM 82 on the spine of the fuselage over that in an attempt to copy the very late war finish seen on some Me 262s at the end of the war.
In some of my books on the Me 262 there are a few pictures showing very late war production 262s with a very thin layer of paint applied over bare metal. In a few cases dark green was sprayed on the upper surfaces while the undersurfaces did not get the RLM 76 applied and was left unpainted bare metal. I think such a finish on the Ta 183 would be good for trying to make a ''Paper Project'' look like a real aircraft.

Matrixone

Matrixone, glad the scribble went OK. I've got that to look forward on a forthcoming Dornier 217K I'm planning, that and removing the raised panel lines and scribing new ones, but that's another story!!!

I've seen a few AMTech 183s on Hyperscale, one of which had the bare metal and filler look, with just a little paint down the spine, looked kind of rough and ready, but very cool.

My little Ta183 is progressing steadily. It was back in the paint shop today for a coat of primer after correcting the faults highlighted last week. Hopefully I'll be applying the RLM 76 tomorrow, with the top camo going on next weekend. Still not 100% decided on the camo scheme. Most likely is a 76/74/75 combo, with 74 down the spine and 74/75 on the wings, but then again some RLM73 might creep in there! One thing is for sure, the nose will be red.

The DFS received a coat of matt varnish this afternoon, so is almost finished. I'll post pics when it is.

Karl

Good to hear what you two have been doing. I'm also glad the scribble work turned out satisfactory, without ruining the model. It looked too good to throw away!

As for me, I have some good news...


I HAVE KITS!!!!

The Fed Ex guy came yesterday with that much-awaited box. On first glance, I'm very happy. I made a mockup of the main pieces with masking tape:

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/LHprs/Ju290Z.jpg[/image]

You can see the tiny Me 328 on the left side of the picture, on that fuselage. You can also kind of see my now-completed B-36 of the same scale, for size comparison.

The Me 328 is a tiny kit, only about eight pieces. It leaves much to be desired in fit, detail, etc. But then again, it's the only kit of it's kind in that price range. Most detail I plan to add will be in the interior, with a couple of plastic drinking straws for the Argus pulsejets.

The Ju 290s, on the other hand, are great. Parts galore, excellent fit of the main parts, fine details- it's all there. Room for both motors and batteries aplenty. There's really only two main vices with the kit. One, some of the panel lines on the upper and lower wing halves don't match up exactly, and two, a total of three propellers were broken off from the sprue as a result of shipping, one of which had a blade broken off. Thankfully I've had some experience with gluing prop blades, so I'm not extremely worried.

And some more good news- I rigged up a jig using some stock plastic, a wire, and a screw with the correctly pitched threads. Practicing on some junker P-38 spinners, I found it works well enough to give me a starting point when I paint the spirals. I hooked the spinner (now with a sprial on it) up to one of my junk motors, and the effect was, indeed, very cool. I used the other spinner to simulate the multi-colored idea, and, though also cool, wasn't as good as the spiral. Eventual spirals on my Ju 290Z are looking very good.

This is, of course, far in the future. I might start with a few subassemblies until I get some paint, and a regulator for the airbrush. I'll keep you posted on the details!

Karl,
You mentioned you had a Do 217K bomber kit to build, I bought one the Revell kits of the Do 217K last year only to discover it was based on the Italeri molds which had raised panel lines.
I am not brave enough to try the re-scribing of the panel lines on mine, but good luck with your kit!

Lucien,
Glad to see you have kits to work on, it looks like you wasted little time in getting your kit to the mock up stage of construction.
One thing I never mentioned about painting spinner spirals, ALWAYS start at the tip and work your way down to the base.
Friday the photocopys of the Ju 290 pictires were sent off, you should get them by Wednesday I hope.

My Do 335 has a wild paint job now, I might post some pics of it later this weekend.

Matrixone

Matrixone- Thanks for the pics. I will be eagerly awaiting their arrival. I'm kind of looking forward to pics of the Do 335, too. Comparing what you said to the pics you've posted, I can imagine a pretty cool looking 'Pfiel'. (Pfiel? Yeah, Pfiel. "Arrow". Yeah.)

I did a little work on the Me 328 and the wings of the Ju 290s/Ju 290Z yesterday. The smaller wings and the tailplanes of the 328 are glued on. (The seams are on panel lines, which is good news- less sanding) I also cut off the outer wings of two of the kit wings in preparation for the new center section. As it stands, the only issue that could turn into a problem is wing warpage. To get the front and rear on the wings to match up when I glue them, I'm going to have to press them into the final position (as opposed to them just dropping in.). Other than that, everything looks good.

I dry-fitted the major components of one of the BMW 801D engines to see how they could hook up to the eventual motor. Apart from the drilling of a few holes here and there, there are no major issues. It'll just be a simple matter of connecting the prop and motor shaft with a tube of wire insulation. On top of that, the engines are excellently detailed, and the cooling fans are actually designed to spin with the props.

Waist guns are provided, and I'm seesawing back and forth on weither I want to install the "inside" ones. The range of fire (on the real thing) would have been severly restricted (without blasting off the other fuselage), but I'm sure the extra defense would have had the Luftwaffe seriously considering putting them in. Any thoughts on this? (You can see from the photo about how far the fuselages are apart. The guns will protrude from the second to last window on either side.)

I also apologize for the quality of the picture. I plan to crack out the tripod before long.

Lucien,

I would not worry about installing the ''inner'' fuselage weapons, it would be unlikely they would have been used since they would have a poor field of fire and the weight of the weapons and ammo and the crew member would make a slow and heavy plane even slower.

Here are a couple in-progress pics of the Do 335 and Fw 190 D. I might be done with the Do 335 in a couple days, the Fw may take a tad longer because of the f#*^#ng main gear, the retraction arms are way too short and I will have to figure out how to fix it. This will probably involve cutting the parts in half and inserting a thin plastic square and gluing it back together and hoping it works.

While taking pics of my models today one was lost due to an accident, will post the pic later.




Matrixone

Matrixone, those birds are coming along beautifully.

I love the scribble camo on the 335.

And you are right, it is the Revell/Italeri Dornier 217K with the raised panel lines I will be building. I've decided to finally take the plunge and rescribe an entire model!!!!!! I figure it's a fairly safe bet that no one is going to release an all new 217K in 1/72 in the nera future.

Lucien, I's ditch the inner fuselage guns, as they would have been next to useless. How about some heavier 20-30mm cannon though in those waist positions, just like the British Sunderland had?

The DFS is now practically complete, just requires a few little touch ups, then I'll post some pictures.

The Ta183 is now entirely RLM76, apart from the nose cone which is still white,awaiting a coat of red.

Karl

First of all: Lucien congrats on your kits!. Looks like you're in for a couple of months of modeling fun!
Matrixone: amazing scribble on the 335. It turned out a real jaw-dropper, and the pics are very good too (but we're getting used to that by now ).
On this end, move preparations are in full swing now, so I probably won't be able to post much for a while. I'll have to switch providers at the new address, so I might be 'off the air' for a few weeks. Don't ask me why this stuff has to take so long, but it apparently will. I'm packing the built kits into boxes now, and praying not too much falls off during transportation. The ones that survive will have a modeling room to live in, so I'm very willing to take my chances .

Filibert- I have been wondering a little why you were kind of AWOL. If you said before you were moving, I probably either missed it, or forgot. (Each very good possibilities.) Good luck with the move, and possibly even more luck with the survival of the kits!

Matrixone- What can I say? Wow! The 335 turned out great! If I didn't know how you did it, that paint sceme would be a real head-scratcher. The 190 looks like it's coming along, too. Hope you figure out your problem with the landing gear, and without too much trouble. I don't like the sounds of that whole, "While taking pics of my models today one was lost due to an accident" thing. Details?

Work continues on parts of the Ju 290Z that don't require paint. I started today on the center wing section, using my original plan of sandwiching a lot of 1mm plastic stock together to make the wing. As of right now, 3mm of it is done. Only 32mm to go!

No guns are going to go in the inside waist position. (Thanks for your opinions, guys.) Two choices of guns are provided, an MG 131 and an MG 151. I forget the caliber sizes right off the bat, but I'm thinking the 131 was a machine gun, while the 151 was a cannon. (Or something like that.) I'm going to use the 151s for several reasons. One, it comprises about five parts, as opposed to two for the 131s. Two, while the 131s project from a normal sized windows, the 151s require much larger cutouts, reminicent of B-24 waist positions. (i.e., more interior detail visible.) And besides, as far as guns go, I live by the mantra, the bigger, the better! (I'm not too worried about what guns go with what versions. It was a paper project!)

I'm very pleased with what the kit has to offer. I can see this build being fairly enjoyable.

Quick question about piant: I'm pretty sure the standard interior color for Luftwaffe aircraft was RLM 02, but I need help on the colors of the seat cushions. On most pics I've seen of models they were brown, but what shade, exactly? Or, what do you use? (Can you tell this is the first Luftwaffe model I've ever built?)

Karl,
One good thing about that Do 217 having raised panel lines is they will help act as a guide when you are rescribing the new panel lines.
When I found out that the Do 217K was a Italeri mold instead of a new Revell mold I was not bothered by that at all, I have built a couple Italeri kits such as the Ju 188 and they went together very well. After looking at the Do 217K kit contents I expect this one will be as good.

Filibert,
Sorry to hear you are moving, I know what a hassle that can be. I hope none of your models are damaged but if they are it would be a good excuse to buy new kits!

Speaking of damaged models, while taking pics of some of my models Sunday I broke one of my models while moving it and decided to take a picture of it anyway. Here it is with a little photoshop work...

I have a few older unbuilt kits that will be built as aircraft that have battle damage and have been forced to do a wheels up landing.

Matrixone

QUOTE: Originally posted by matrixone Karl, Filibert, Sorry to hear you are moving, I know what a hassle that can be. I hope none of your models are damaged but if they are it would be a good excuse to buy new kits! Matrixone

Don't let my girlfriend hear you . Actually, I'm using the opportunity to move a lot of (mainly unbuilt) kits back from my parents' place to the new home. I'm getting re-acquainted with some long lost friends in the process, like a Monogram Kingfisher and C-47 (pretending to be a DC-3, but with complete airborne C-47 interior). Good stuff, so I'll have plenty to choose from without buying new kits .

Matrix, I'm sorry to see your 109 has sustained some u/c damage. Those u/c legs weren't any good on the real plane, and they aren't on the models either: too thin and too close together. You certainly made the most of it though, producing that very convincing picture!

Lucien,
The cockpits of all mid to late war aircraft were RLM 66, all other interior areas were RLM 02.
Most seat cushions were leather, I have seen some pictures of seat cushions that looked like they were made of cloth. The Ju 290 was a long range aircraft and probably had leather seat cushions to provide more comfort for the flight crew.
My lost model is fixable, one of the landing gear snapped off while I was handling it for some picture taking Sunday afternoon, then while repairing the landing gear later that day I broke off the photoetch DF loop.

Matrixone

hey guys. im just wondering if i can get in on this GB. if i can, my build wont be near as unusual or extraordinary as the rest of yours. i will use the Testor's 1/72 F4U Corsair to build the XF4U-1 Corsair prototype. im primarily a car modeler, and im just getting into aircraft. so i went for something pretty simple. the Testor's Corsair is my first kit (im not quite done with the first build of it.) and the cockpit, which is one of the only extternal changes, is an extra part from my second kit, the Academy 1/72 P-40. if i get around to it, i might get another kit for this GB. also, im planning on scratchbuilding the MXY7 Ohka, a rocket-powered kamikaze plane. but there was a turbojet-powered version with a smaller wingspan and warhead that never got of the ground. would that qualify? later.
Jon

Jon,

As far as I know your XF4U-1 quilifys for this GB, I don't know that much about the Corsair to say for certain.

My late war Fw 190D that I am building as part of this group build MIGHT be a prototype but I can't be sure about it 100% and it has been allowed in the GB.

Anyway, welcome to this GB and start building your Corsair and post some pics of it if possible.

Matrixone

Jon, the more the merrier. Welcome to the GB.

Matrixone, from what I have read Italeri's Ju88/188 and Dornier 217J/K are as accurate as it gets, the only down side being the raised panel lines as you mention. The rescribing is just another skill to learn, although I've had to do a fair bit on the belly of the Ta183 as the body halves did not quite match up!!

Karl