AIRCRAFT - "Prototypes and Paper Projects" Group Build - Still Open.

DJ, that Floh, well.......um.........I mean to say..........words fail me!

That is a bizarre and ugly aircraft, that looks like it belongs in a Tin Tin story, not the skies over the trenches!

Mike, I remember building that Helldiver kit when I was about 8, it got painted a lovely shade of gloss green if I remember......IPMS here I come!

The new Revell AG stuff is excellent, it doesn't help that both Eduard and CMK are doing loads of AM resin & PE for these things either. CMK are doing a full aileron, flap and rudder set for the 262, along with a conversion for the 50mm cannon armed version in resin. Tempting.......

The Ta 183 got it's second gloss coat last night, so should get a sludgewash tonight or tomorrow.

Matrixone, sorry to hear about the problems with your Ta, hope it turns out OK.

Ed, don't worry too much about progress, these things always progress by fits and starts, I find.

Karl

Hey guys been away from the bench for about a week hopefully I can gen my landing gear on DO 335 tonight , try to get some pics up soon

Thad

Karl,

This Amtech kit so far has been a dud, the warped left wing parts and broken control stick are fixed, the badly bent and now broken retraction strut is not and I may have to leave it the way it is. Everything that I have read about this kit has been positive, no mention of any of the kind of problems I am having have been mentioned in any of the reviews that I have read.
My 1/72 scale PM Ta 183 has been a pleasure to build so far, unlike the Amtech kit.

Matrixone

Matrixone, at least one of them is going well. All the reviews that I have read on the AMtech have been positive, so it looks like you got a Friday afternoon kit!

I'm currently sludgewashing my little Ta, and must admit I'm extremely pleased with it seeing as it was £3.65 ($6.60) kit, with all the extras either scratchbuilt, or culled from the spares box. I know I keep saying it, by I will get around to posting some pics soon.

Best of luck

Karl

here is the latest progress on the natter. i wont be working on it for awhile as i am trying to finish the titanic that i am building for a guy i work with.

Hey, she's got markings! It's interesting to see a familier camo pattern on an aircraft that never wore it. Nice job!

A few updates on the Ju 290Z:

First off, I found the perfect master for the nose and tail turrets- an AA battery! It's the right diameter, and the height I can adjust. The shape is not exact, but that I can fix using the same techniques I plan to use on the gondola- make a crappy "master" from a not so good base, fill with some sort of filler, sand to final shape, and use that as my final master. Roundabout, sure, but it'll work.

Second- going over armament diagrams, I just realized how heavy the defensive armament on this thing is going to be- twenty cannons and two machine guns! (Four guns x four turrets, two on noses and two on tails, = 16, plus two upper turrets on port fuselage, plus two waist positions, plus two remote ventral turrets.) This thing's going to be a flying gunship!

Which brings me to my second point- with that many guns, weight will defenitely be an issue (with the full size aircraft). Pressurization would be null and void because it probably wouldn't be able to get up high enough to need it. And besides, at that height the Me 328 wouldn't work- not enough wing area to stay aloft. One more thing that would be useless. Coupled with the fact pressurization for an aircraft that large would be to complicated to develop in the stresses of wartime, especially in 1946 Germany, I don't feel to bad about not pressurizing it. You agree?

That's it for now.

That natter looks peachy, Josh. Hope to see pics of the Titanic too by the way!

Mike, I think your reasonning is fine. No need for a pressurised cabin.

No progress to report on the Floh. It's still awaiting rigging but I probably won't do that until after Mad Fokker Day as I need to clear out the workbench for spreading stretched sprue.

The Arsenal kit is basically built. The fit was quite poor but that was kind of expected. Milliput was used extensively on the lower fuselage at the joints with the wings; I had to add matter and re-sculpt the Karman at the wing roots, just under the cockpit. A thin coat of 'primer' revealed some more imperfections which i'm working on at the moment. I'm also working on the Italeri MC202 Folgore to keep me sane. Although the fit was not too good on that one either, I'm way passed that stage now, so things are easier and provide a welcome break from the more demanding Arsenal kit. Pics tonight I think.

Today I got a Godsend. Back in the recesses of a long-forgotten post, a single photo resurfaced, one which can help me immensely:

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/gregbale117/lst?.dir=/MG131Quad

Before today, the only reference I had to go on was a side view contour drawing of a turret about 15 mm high. Obviously, this helps greatly. (I thank gregbale for the info. )

Not much work got done this week with the Zwilling, except for the fact three engines are pained and glued together (only five more to go!). A lot of work has been done on practicing vac-forming/push through techniques with various plastics. One problem I've encountered with the turrets is the fact they come out so thin at the end. The plastic I'm using to practice on (some stock I had lying around) can't hold up to the drilling and positioning I know I'm going to have to eventually do. The thing is, the plastic is unable to keep it's shape. Will this problem occur with clear plastic stock, or will this be a problem I need to work on?

Another thing I'd like to do- as soon as real progress starts, I'd like to update my signature with a progress photo every now and then. This is just an idea, though.

This place has been a little dead lately.....

Lucien,

After you have made the turrets the best way to handle them for cutting/drilling is to put clay or silly putty inside the turret to stop it from being too flexable while working on them. HTH.

Progress has been slow on my two Ta 183s I am working on, the Amtech kit parts fit nearly perfectly...at least the parts that are not warped or broken! Sunday I opened up one of my other Amtech Ta 183 kits and almost the same problem exists (left landing gear retraction strut warped, part #16) in that one too except it is not half broken off.

The PM kit is in need of some putty and sanding work but that was expected from this kit so it is no problem at all, will post some in-progress pics when there is something to look at.

Matrixone

Sounds like slow progress all round then.

I managed next to nothing on the Ta183 over the weekend, just a matt coat and a few detail bits. However practically everything is now painted and ready for final assembly, it just needs a spot of weathering first.

I peeled the masking of the canopy only to find I had somehow managed to scratch the inside of it Me, and PM canopies obviously do not get on! I also need to remove the goo left by the masking tape, as the canopy is a bit smeary, still at least it hides the scratch!

And one day I will post some pictures............honest!

Karl

The Me 328 is going to need a little filler and sanding work, too. Then again, it is a PM kit, so... I guess it's to be expected.

The tailplanes and fin halves are glued together, and three engines are painted and glued together (but not mounted yet.). Maybe I can ge the outer underwing panels glued to the upper wings tonight. And hopefully very soon I can get the order in for the eight electric motors in the mail.

I changed the pic in the sig. You know why. It's not the most recent one, but I did it real quick just using one I already had uploaded. Maybe I can get a better one this weekend.

I picked up some silly putty a few days ago to use in masking. Looking at the size of the wing and fuselages, though, I may have to get some more!

This is NOT a in-progress pic of my Ta 183 kits but something I wanted to share anyway, this pic I shot last Sunday is of my old Ta 183 model that was built a few years ago. This is the first pic where I got the aged effect just about right, I have been trying for months to antique my pictures to get them to look like this one and I feel I finally made some progress in this area.

Here is the pic...


In a few days I might have some in-progress pics of my current projects...that all depends on if I get something done on them! These little nagging problems with that Amtech kit have really taken the wind out of my sails, I kind of avoided my work bench last weekend so I would not have to deal with those warped/broken parts.

Matrixone

Matrixone, I know the feeling!

I have put both the Ta 183 and my 109 G10 to one side, as the 109 especially has proved a complete !

I will probably do some more on the Ta next week, but for the moment I'm concentrating on my Do217K, as well as my latest acquisition a PZL P24G.

Hope things improve.

Karl

Matrixone, I just got the 183 kit you are doing I will have to look and see If mine is warped to. I am doing a DO335 for this build and was putting on the last of the decals and one of them fogged up on me, now I dont have the energy to finish. Well there is always the 183 to start.

Thad


Thad

One thing I can say about the 290Z- lots of repetition. More of the same for me- work on the engines continues. As of now I'm half way there, with four of them painted and glued togther. As I type this I'm trying to upload a few photos to show what I have going on.

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/LHprs/000_0487.jpg[/image]
The main thing about this shot is the fact the complete tailplanes are installed, at least temporarily. Lots is just masking taped together, but I don't care. It make me feel like I'm accomplishing something!

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/LHprs/000_0489.jpg[/image]
This one is just a better shot of the engines. The first couple pics didn't do them justice. The props and cooling fans are dry-fitted.

Every time I glue a piece together (which isn't often) I'm amazed at the fit on this thing! So far the only potental fault I found was the mismatch of a few panel lines on the wing halves- small, compared to the size of this thing! The excellent fit is one reason I'm willing to be a little radical (read: B version conversion) in building extras. Right now My bigges problem is finding a sutable way to make the nose and tail turret trays. Okay! Enough about me!

matrixone- Really sorry to hear of all the problems you're having with the Ta 183. I hope things start looking up soon!

KINGTHAD- I hope your luck is better than matrixone's! (Sorry matrixone!)

Geeze! Things are slowing down a little for everyone! I hope for everyone's sake thing look up very soon!

Karl,
If your Bf 109G-10 is from the Revell kit it should not be too bad of a kit to build, the photos I have seen of the built model looks good except the propeller looks too small and the canopy might not fit so good.

Thad,
Sorry to hear of your decal woes on your Do 335, if you decide to put new decals on it try the Cutting Edge decal sheets for the 335 they are easy to work with.
Despite some poorly molded and broken parts I highly recommend that Amtech Ta 183 kit, the wings fit into the fuselage so well glue would not be needed, other parts also fit very well.
My kit might be just a fluke, I have read nothing but glowing reports about this model and how easy it is to make.

Lucien,
These problems I am having with that Amtech kit are actually very small compared with those experienced with that ProModeler Fw 190D-11 kit I finished a few weeks ago.
I fully expected that Amtech Ta 183 would be ready to paint in a weeks time and am very unhappy it turned out to not be the case.
It looks like your Ju 290Z is turning out very good so far, it will be a big job painting that model!


Matrixone

Matrixone, it is Revell's kit in 1/72, with the Eduard PE set and Eagle Cal decals.

Unfortunately I couldn't build the machine I wanted from the kit due to it having the incorrect wing bulges. Once I discovered that I lost interest, and ended up going for another scheme from the AM decal sheet, which I have decided I don't like.

I'll put the PE and decals to one side, and will probably kit bash another Revell 109 G10, and an Academy G6 into the machine I wanted to build in the first place!

Looks like the little 109 will end up as an R&D airframe instead, while I enjoy working on the Dornier and the PZL.

As for the Ta, still no movement or pictures!

Karl

Mike, this project of yours never cease to amaze me!! It's looking good.

Here's a pic of the Arsenal in its present state, i.e. awaiting a new primer coat to check the quality of my sculpting/puttying/sanding...



I've been off this week and I was asked by the wife to do some DIY stuff around the house so I also built new shelves in the workshop that have allowed me to bring out about 90% of all the partly and unbuilt kits that were in the loft..!

By doing so, I found my Rafale A which I promptly placed on the workbench.. I had not touched it in over 6 years. It has a longer story still since I rescued it from the hands of a young and not so keen anymore modeler in the mid-90s. At one point, though, this modeller had been enthusiastic about gluing stuff so there was a lot of work there!!! I managed to put some parts apart and started filling n the MAJOR gaps and 'steps' in the airframe he had left. After a few days of work, I got bored and I left it at that... Today, I've started sanding again, and adding Milliput this time to build up some volume in areas that were still lacking it.





It's the 1/48 Heller kit of the prototype of the Rafale fighter (eventually known as Rafale A). I'm sure all that much putty and Milliput would not have been required had I started the kit from scratch, but... I'm going to use parts of the newer Revell Rafale kit (being sold for less than $10 here!!) and spare bits from an Italri F-18 (the engines of the Rafale A were those of an F-18, while awaiting delivery of the French Snecma M-88 engines) to 'update' the kit a little.

DJ- Nice. This is an aircraft I don't belive I've seen before. I guess this GB is pulling out all sorts of wierd and wonderful aircraft! (Which I kind of intended!) From what I can see, you sure have your hands full.

Which brings me to my question- what can you do about "steps" in major joins, short of pulling them apart and regluing? Would it be better to try and sand down the offending side, or fill the other with appropriate putty? I know this was my biggest problem on my B-36, something I didn't entirely correct. I already encountered it a little on one of the wing halves, but it's low enough that I can sand it off.

Mike, this is a major problem on this build because the kid did not build the kit the right way and with little consideration to good fit. I can't blame him.. When I started, I also wanted everything to be done yesterday you know... Ha!

I've done some 'levelling off' with my trusty jewellers' files, but there's so much one can file away before one start loosing the shape of the real thing, so I've had to build up layers of putty to give the step some 'flesh'. Nowadays, I'd do this with Milliput but several years ago, I was not as confident with that product and ended up spending hours adding putty and sanding it away. Milliput is easy to shape/sculpt when applied and dry harder than plastic. Putties are generaly softer than plastic and one tend to sand too much too easily.
Having said that, the way the aircraft is broken down in the kit makes it a difficult subject for any modeler I'd think. A beginner would have had little chance of doing it right. I'd be curious to hear from anyone having built this Heller kit and see whether those intakes brought problems...

I've started building the Revell kit (Rafale B) and I can see that the intakes are going to be a problem too on that kit...

Only two new things to report:

I started playing around with launching rails for the Me 328 today. As is stands, I can to one of three things:
-Take a sheet of plastic and glue it horizontally over the existing turret and vent fairings molded on to the kit piece.
-Take two smaller strips and mount them vertically parallel to serve as rails (like a train track), while leaving the molded on detail. (And filling any large holes, such as the turrets housings, of course.)
-Take my changes and sand off all detail on the kit piece, fill the holes, and hope for the best.

Keep in mind through all of this I'd like to install a switch to operate the motors onto the Me 328 launching trolly, already made from a stand provided in the kit. I'm leaning toward one or two right now, but- things change.

Second- I had a near-miss on one of the engines. The small vave on the bottom of the engine firewall piece that holds the engine piece AND provides part of the exterior cowling of one of them broke off, apparently in shipping. I was able to replace it with some plastic stock I had laying around (which is good, because if I didn't, about a millimeter wide gap would have been on the underside of the cowling. Not good.). Problem fixed, thank God. (The part in question is visible on the pic I posted not too long ago. They're just visible on the underside of the engines.)

And DJ- thanks. I'll make sure and remember that.

Hello folks,
I´m new here at FSM Forum.
I´m 33 old and I use to built plastic models as a hobby during free time.
I like to built 1:35, 1:72 WWII militaria and 1:72 WWII aircraft. I´ve some built models and some sleeping into their boxes waiting for a good moment to came alive.
Here in Brazil is still dificult to maintain this hobby. There are few shops, the prices are expensive and the variety of models in not large.
By the way, we also try to organize events and foruns of discussion as this on FSM.
I´m at Orkut too - "Julio Loureiro" and also visit the comunity "Plastimodelismo".
I intend to built the Blohm & Voss BV P-194 (1944) 1:72.
Cheers
Julio

Good to see you joining in this GB, Julio!

Not much to report from over here! The Floh is still awaiting its rigging (I'm waiting for the Fok Dr.1 to reach that stage in order to do both WWI aircraft at the same time), I'm collecting more pics of the Rafale A (while I've now started building a third Rafale, the M..), and I have put another coat of 'primer' onto the Arsenal, which is now ready to be painted... However, I have a busy wek end ahead so I'm not expecting much progress right away...

jcsloureiro- to thisahere Group Build! The Blohm & Voss BV P-194 is a very good choice. Personally- I thought it was only a matter of time before someone chose it.

Hey! Guess what? Now we've got three continents represented in this Build! Interesting thought...

As for me- you can start exchanging money now; the planned B conversion has fell through. Mostly it was for want of sutable nose and tail turret trays, which I was never able to make sasifactorily. (Is that a word?....) These past couple weeks have taught me that any scratchbuilding I might try will only degrade this model. So, really it's back to OOB, except for the motors, Me 328, and the fact I have two of them stuck together!!

Besides, all the parts of the kit fit so well it's almost degrading not to use them. The only thing I may be worried about is the fact the tail glazing (kit part, now.) comes in two halves, meant to be glued together. This might not be a problem, as the seams are on painted panel lines, but then again, it could be a potential issue.

Which brings me back to the fit of the kit. It's awsome! I'd say 80% of the seams are on natural panel lines, and fit is so good no filler is needed. I highly, highly recommend this kit. And for the price, what you get is well worth it!

Okay, I'm done.

One more quick thing- I was checking http://luftarchiv.de right now, and they updated the Ju 290/390 page. Most importantly, there is now a color picture of "Alles Kaputt". It doesn't show the top mottling very well, but I don't really need that now. (Thanks again, matrixone.) The fact is, it's a color photo of an aircraft that doesn't exist anymore! It should help in getting the right shade of the straight RLM colors. Check it out if you're interested. (Go to English navigtion on the left.)

Thanks for the update, Mike. Interesting site too! Thanks for sharing. Found in that site a pic of an aircraft you may consider for your next project...



Scratchbuilt, though! As far as I know, thee's no kit of this huge beast... But that should not stop you!

OK, my update now: have placed the Arsenal on the back burner until I can actually find some decent refs on the color scheme(s). However, I'm busy researching the Rafale family and it's getting very confusing... The problem is that Rafale is just entering service and in its so far 18 year old history, there are lots of variants, schemes, and minor changes from one aircraft to the other...

In any case, I shall concentrate first on the Rafale A. Getting the B and M variants going at the same time is becoming too difficult if only for the shear number of reference I have to spread out around me! The Rafale A was not apparently a prototype but the French called it a "demonstrator" instead...

Also the A is past history and I can actually hit the 'pause' button and work on a particular, definitive aircraft with a definitive scheme. I started yesterday the re-engraving (I'm following Swanny's excellent tutorial). It was not as hard as I though it would be. I'm used to re-engrave the odd panel line over top of the fuselage joints, but not on the scale required for this kit that must be more putty than plastic..! It's a slow process, often requiring little corrections but I'm getting there.

Revell's Rafale M kit represents what one could call a pre-production navalised Rafale. The kit comes with decals for the M01 (the first navalised Rafale) and a Rafale in the markings of 12th Flotille. However, since Rafale M actually entered service in 12F -after the release of the kit-, small changes have been made to the airframe and possibly more noticeably, the markings have gone 'low-viz'. The changes to the airframe are relatively easy to do, but there are no suitable low-viz decals available for this kit. I'm thinking of 'misting' the decal sheet with light blue-grey to acheive the desired look...

As to the Rafale B, as far as I can ascertain, things are still in the pre-production stage and therefore the Revell kit appears correct...

And did I ever tell you about the Rafale C and Rafale N....

DJ, isn't the the BV222 in the photo?

If so Revell do a kit in 1/72. A bit of a monster by all accounts with a 3 foot wing span!

No progress for me on the Ta.

All work is focussed on scribing the panel lines on the D0217K1, and assembling the PZL 24G, neither of which are elligable for this GB.

Karl

QUOTE: Originally posted by djmodels1999 Thanks for the update, Mike. Interesting site too! Thanks for sharing. Found in that site a pic of an aircraft you may consider for your next project... Scratchbuilt, though! As far as I know, thee's no kit of this huge beast... But that should not stop you!

Yeah. Right. I talk big, but my scratchbuilding skills are practically nonexistant. My problem is that my ambition is huge, much larger than my skills. (That's one of the reasons the B version plans tanked.)

KJ- No, the BV 222 looks similar, but it aint the same plane. The 222 had a single tailplane, for one. I wondered what it was, too. So I looked it up, and it turns out it was a French design captured and evaluated by the Germans after they surrendered. I'll look up the designation now-



Okay, it's a Sud-Est SE.200. Link here:
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.co.uk/sud.html

As for the BV 222, I might get that one eventually. (If I can find the room!) I hear that many of the plusses of the Ju 290 kit translate to that one, also.

As for me- since the B conversion fell through, it's back to OOB. A scratchbuilt A7 nose isn't out of the question yet, though any attempts won't be serious. (More like something to kill time instead of improving the kit.) And see, look. I'm talking again! I said it before, I'll say it again- we shall see.

Mike, that 290Z looks to be coming on beautifully.

I hadn't spotted the fact that the plane in the picture had a twin tail!

From what I have read and seen the Bv222 is a another stunning kit. There is a great article on building the Revell kit on Hyperscale.

Again I have done absolutely nothing on the Ta, it's still hiding in the cupboard.

Karl