AIRCRAFT - "Prototypes and Paper Projects" Group Build - Still Open.

Not having a subscription to Finescale Modeler magazine (my only source being my local library, God bless their souls), I was a little suprised upon opening the several new issues to find a new department on the Forums. And whaddya know, there on page 90 of the November issue- a quote by me! If you haven't seen the department before it's kind of cool. And if I'm incredibly out of the loop, bear with me.

Because of the lack of progress, I'm thinking ahead to eventual painting (wayyyyyyyyyyyyy far in the future...). Okay, most of you know the sceme, so here's a question for you painters out there- How would you do it?

I plan to do a reverse mottling technique, i.e. dark splotches first, mask with Silly Putty or appropirate alternative, and spray the lighter "base" color. What throws this all off is where to mix the black undersides into all of this. My leading idea is for a total base coat of black, with the underwing areas masked off to then do the mottling. What worries me about this, though, is the general rule to use the lightest color as the base coat. This would screw everything up, though, so... yeah. Any ideas?

And hows this for a possible positioning for the RATO bottles coming in the mail. Look at this pic, specifically the head on view:

[image]http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/4082/mistel1/ju290zi.jpg[/image]
I want to use the "outer" engines of each airframe (think two seperate aircraft, now... Engines 1, 4, 5, and 8 if you can't) for Hs 293s, and I want to keep under the fuselages clean just in case I want to add a couple of V-1s later. So, knowing this, I was thinking of putting the eight RATO packs in groups of two under engines 2, 3, 6, and 7, one slung on each side of the landing gear fairings. This way they can't tear up the fuselage (the Ju 290 being a tail-dragger), and they won't crowd everything else happening under the wings. They also should be clear from most obstructions when they jetteson after take-off. Is my reasoning sound?

Given that the start date for this group build of prototype A/C was July 1 2004 I guess the scratch built General Dynamics A-12 "Avenger II" in 1/72nd scale that I just finished last week is eligible. Does that mean I win the contest ? Just kidding. I still need to take pictures of this flying wedge and than someone will need to tell me how to post the pictures in this forum.

Richard

Given that the start date for this group build of prototype A/C was July 1 2004 I guess the scratch built General Dynamics A-12 "Avenger II" in 1/72nd scale that I just finished last week is eligible. Does that mean I win the contest ? Just kidding. I still need to take pictures of this flying wedge and than someone will need to tell me how to post the pictures in this forum.

Richard

I'm really looking forward to seeing the pics, Richard! Mike, best of luck! I couldn't hope to answer your question, since I really don't know German a/c that well.

Mat.man- An A-12- Very interesting. The "Flying Dorito", or something like that? Nice. Pics would be appreciated as soon as you can get them. Now, how you do that is like this-

-Take the picture with preferably a digital camera.
-Load the pics onto your computer, or scan in the photos if the above camera isn't a digital one.
-Find a sutable image hosting site. (I use www.photobucket.com; there's a list stickyed in one of the techniques or community assistance forums somewhere.)
-Create an account.
-Follow the instructions on the image hosting site to upload photos onto the internet.
-Once that's done, just enclose the URL (should say under the picture) in between [ image][/ image] to display the photo. (Don't put the spaces in. I just did that so you could see the brackets. Otherwise you get this: [image][/image])

Time consuming- yes. Worth it? Oh yeah.

Hope this helps!

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lucien Harpress KJ- If you don't have any qualms about ebay, check this out- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1189&item=5931444066&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Last time I checked the bidding was at $15.50. It's a little cheaper. The model was not built by me. I just used it to illustrate the RATO packs I hope to somehow find. I agree, it is a nice model though.

Lucien, that is a tempting offer, but I still have 3 kits to finnish, and another stashed away for the BoB GB in Feb. Not that I'm a slow builder or anything!!!!!!!

I've still done nothing on the Ta 183.

Karl

hi, folks !
i have the pleasure 2 report a bit of progress on my flying wing...
i have started 2 add thin bits of styrene strip around the cockpit opening
2 shim the canopy 4 a better fit.
altho' this is not a lot of work, it is a step i had been putting off because
it brings me closer 2 the moment i have 2 mask the canopy...
so it is an important milestone 4 me in this build.

Lucien, congrats on getting into print !

frosty

Frosty- Good to hear progress! I'm a little worried about all those clear parts on the Zwilling myself. Hm... those Ju 290 pre-cut masks are beginning to look tempting...

Okay, switching gears for a second. Let's focus on the Me 328. Because of issues with the pulsejets the project never got out of prototype phase, so armament was never fitted. Obviously this won't do for a parasite fighter, so I will have to add guns.

From what I've been able to find the planned armament was two MG FF 20mm cannons in the wings and two 7.29mm MG 17 in the upper fuselage decking. (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/me328.html) Obviously barrels are going to need to be added, but after that... I'm not so sure. All I can think are possibly bulges in the wings and maybe the fuselage for gun breeches and ammo ejector chutes on the outside. Can anyone possibly give their opinion on possible additions than come with guns, and what would be the best way to add the aforementioned items? Thanks!

Here are a couple in-progress pics of the Ta 183s, the pic with the side view of the Amtech kit really shows off the Alclad II metal finish quite well.
I like the Alclad II so much I might build a NMF Tamiya Me 262 next year.
The rest of the camouflage on the Ta 183s should be done by Sunday night, the most difficult part of painting these models is deciding what looks ''correct'', and for the wing upper surfaces I have not yet decided on the camouflage pattern that will look like Focke-Wulf factory style camouflage, I will be looking at many pictures of late war Fw 190s today to make a final decision.





Matrixone

Finally! Pictures! What can I say? Another top notch job. The Alclad really does make a very convincing NMF. Maybe I'll try it on another B-36. Moterized FICON perhaps...?

Were you planning on leaving the engine exposed (which you did a wonderful job on also)?

I didn't get much done on the Zwilling today. I was too busy up in Lansing watching the MSU Spartans beat the snot out of Wisconsin. Go Spartans!

I did, however, get the engines glued onto the bottom wing tray. This'll let me line up the motors to the prop shafts and let me slide the upper wings on once everythings glued up.

Lucien,
I really like that AlcladII, it looks great and is very easy to work with. I got good results from it even though I did not follow the instruction on how to use it very closely.

A few days ago you mentioned possibly using Blue tack as a way of masking in order to paint the mottled camouflage on your Ju 290Z, my advice is to spray the mottles freehand using your airbrush. Your Paasche comes with different needles and spray nozzles, follow the instructions and use the correct parts for painting fine detail work.
I have seen other models that used the Blue Tack to try and do the mottled effect and it did not really work that well, spraying this type of camouflage freehanded works the best.

I thin my paint more usual and use lower PSI when painting mottle or scribble camouflage patterns.
If I was painting your Ju 290Z here is how I would do it:
1. Spray uppersurfaces the RLM 75 base coat.
2. Spray the RLM 74 mottles.
3. Add the black paint to the undersurfaces (add a little red to the black paint first).
4. Spray black (with a few drops of white added) to the fin and rudders and any areas where the sun may faded the the exposed the black paint.

Practice spraying the mottled camouflage on an old model first, it is very easy to do but some practice well help you get the hang of it without the pressure of possibly ruining your good model.
HTH

Matrixone

This I will definitely have to remember. Thank's, matrixone!

Just for future reference, are the mottles on the Ju 290 (or any other aircraft carrying this sceme, for that matter) hard edged or feathered? The photocopies you sent me look like they have a hard edge, but I have seen paint jobs whre the mottles are feathered into the background color.

Also, what is the purpose of adding the red to the black? Is it to ease spraying or what?

Then I'll have to factor in weither I want to add a base coat of silver to be able to apply a chipped paint effect using salt, something I've wanted to try. I may save it for another project, though.

My old airbrush hasn't had a wiff of paint through it yet, so I haven't been able to play with it much. Not to worry, though. I have a great supply of old models to practice on!

Lucien,
Most German a/c that the mottled camouflage had a feathered and not hard edged effect. Those pictures of ''Alles Kaputt'' don't really show the feathered edge very well but they are soft edged mottles.

Adding red to black paint is not to help how it sprays but it does help black paint look blacker than black, I learned this trick from an expert builder back in my RC airplane days. I tried it and it does work. The large airplane you are building could benefit from this, a small 1/72 scale or even 1/48 scale fighter this would be of no help but the larger the model the better this effect works. Just make sure this very dark black is used only on parts of the aircraft that are not exposed to the sunlight.

IMO, the salt weathering effect may be overkill on this type of a/c. Using a silver artists pencil might be more effective for a 1/72 scale model.
Do you want your model to look like a nicely built weathered model or a model of a full size machine? I see WAY too many great looking models overweathered, remember that when adding weathering to an airplane sometimes less is more.

Matrixone

ok, i built the arrow in under 24 hours, i just need to pain it now and convert it into the mk-3


that orange paint is comming off btw

uh oh, i just relized that i cemeted the canopy on before i painted the figures

T34, great choice! Fantastic looking plane..! Looking forward to seeing progress made on this!

hi, all !
just checking in w/ a couple of pix of the flying wing:

Ho 229 cockpit w/ shims added

Ho 229 landing gear & wheel bays

not a lot 2 show, but i actually am still in this...

frosty

Frosty, don't worry, I haven't touched my Ta in a month, after all there are always more kits out there, why limit yourself to one?

T34, is that the Hobbycraft kit?

Karl

QUOTE: Originally posted by KJ200 T34, is that the Hobbycraft kit?

yup, hobbycraft, or should i say hobbycr*p 1/72 scale. the "detailed cockpit" as it says on the box, consists of a flat piece of plastic and 2 seats

T34,
That Arrow is shaping up nicely, its going to look great when its painted and marked.

Frosty,
Glad to see more of your flying wing, that extra cockpit detail looks really good, hope to see more pics when its finished.

Karl,
If you don't hurry up with your Ta 183 I might catch up with you!
I could have been done with my Ta 183s by now but something happened recently that has nearly stopped all my modeling and will most likely cause me to stop forever...so these Ta 183s might be my last. I don't know what the future has in store for me....it is not a bad thing (yet) thats happened, I just have to let fate run its course.


Matrixone

More great stuff, Frosty! Cockpit looks good!!

Frosty- Nice looking cockpit! It's been a long time since we had an update. Nice work!

t3488g- The Arrow is coming along. It looks pretty good. I can relate to sparse 1/72 cockpit detail. Testors Dauntless? Two benches. Period. Not pretty.

matrixone- Thanks once again for the painting tips. I didn't realize the mottling was feathered, and thought if not, why not mask it? But knowing now what I know, it makes perfect sense to freehand it. Once again, thanks.

That, and I'm sure everyone's wondering- what happened?

I test fitted the major cockpit components (two bulkheads and a side console), and thankfully there seems to be no suprises. The fuselage to wing joint is going to be dicey, though.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lucien Harpress Frosty- Nice looking cockpit! It's been a long time since we had an update. Nice work! t3488g- The Arrow is coming along. It looks pretty good. I can relate to sparse 1/72 cockpit detail. Testors Dauntless? Two benches. Period. Not pretty. matrixone- ...I'm sure everyone's wondering- what happened?

Lucien:
thanx !
i haven't given up on this one, just been busy w/ other deadlines...
ditto re: comments 2 t3488g... good opportunity 2 do somescratchbuilding, tho' ...
u certainly can't make it any worse by putting something in there !
and yeah, matrixone, what's up ?
hope u & urs r all OK, u r getting me worried !

frosty

Do you people know of this site?

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/prototypes.com/index.html

It's in French, but the pic content is fabulous!

DJ- What a site! I just spent about 20 minutes looking everything over and you're right, it's great! Check it out, everybody! Who knows? You may be inspired...

I most likely will pick up a regulator sometime this week. I should get my hands on some interior colors shortly afterward so I can begin construction of the fuselages.

On a more sobering note, the engines I need? Sold out! I'll have to wait until they get re-stocked to try again, so all construction on the wing has ground to a halt until further notice.

Hi all…

I remember awhile ago I posted on this thread that I wanted to join, but I never posted anything after that. No progress reports or anything. I haven’t really started anything for this group until recently. So here’s a progress report.

Well it's about time! This place has been dead for quite a while.

Do my eyes deceive me, or is that a Bf 109Z? Ah ha! Another Zwilling joins the fray!

Nothin' new for me, though.

Nice one Wooverstone! Another interesting subject..!

I swear to God, those spinners are going to kill me...

I got the great idea to try to vac form a replacement spinner for the one I lost. I set everything up, got one of the remaining spinners-

and promptly melted it!

Not giving up, I attempted it again, this time with yet another kit spinner. This one didn't melt- it got stuck instead. So, after much finagleing, cutting, and muttering expletives I finally got it free. Unfortunatly the vac spinner didn't fit, and I almost ruined the kit spinner I was using. So, I've decided to cut my losses and just try and order (now) two spinners from the company and wait forever for replacements.

One more bit of good news- because of some actions that cannot be undone, spirals are now more or less out of the question. Besided, when hooked up to the motors the props spin too fast to get the proper effect anyway. (Instead of a rapidly moving spiral, all I get is an overall white blur) So, knowing this, I've decided (for now) to go for something a little different, something not seen too often, an offset oval. (Tried to find a pic. No avail.)

I'm sure I'm not getting the correct effect with this either, but it's still a little more interesting than an overall white blur. With this it's sort of a three-tone effect, a solid white on the end, a sort of grey in the middle, and solid black on the end. Still, not spectacular, but the most interesting of my three choices. (Spirals, two-tone, or this one.)

You must remember, these spinners are miniscule. Look at the nail on your pinkey- now imagine a spinner half that size. At least.

But there has been some good news- recently stuggling with ideas for connecting the motors to the prop shafts (and having many, many problems with the flexible wire insulation I was using) I found an excellent replacement that solves almost every problem I've had in this area- the little tubes that hold the ink in ink pens are the exact size of both the motor shaft and prop shaft (got real lucky there). With enough of each the motors and props fitted into each end of these, everything is guarenteed to line up perfectly. As of right not, about 85% of the technical issues involving the wiring and motor installation have been solved.

Lucien, glad to hear that matters are progressing.

Wooverstone, that 109Z is coming along nicely, I can't wait to see more.

I know I haven't posted on this GB in while, and it has been even longer since I picked up my Ta183, but I finally got around to taking some photos of my Huckebein.





As you can see there is not a lot left to be done, I just need to get on with it. Hopefully with the PZL in the paint shop, and my 217 not far behind, I'll finally finish the Ta!

I still think I overdid it with the panel shading, but hey it's a lesson learned! Hopefully!!!!!

Karl

KJ200- Once again, hat's off to you. I just hope my project looks half that good once it's finished.

I got my hands on a bunch of RATO bottles yesterday. I got eight of them, complete with the mounting brackets. But now... where to put them?

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/LHprs/100_0449.jpg[/image]

I've narrowed it down to either the left (one on each side of the wheel fairings), or the right (groups of two on each side of the fuselage). My question- which one would make more sense? Or, barring that, which looks better? Whatever I use will be translated to both sides.