ARMOR - Tamiya 1/16 Tiger 1 Group Build

Hey guys...

I'm doing the final assembly on my Tiger I, seeing as how I finally finished painting the camo pattern and the road wheels. However, last night I hit a bump in the road... I was putting my road wheels and drive sprockets on and the inside drive sprocket on the right side of the tank started to give me trouble. Note: I purchased the newer Type 4 gears for my Tiger, and they fit perfectly bolted to the bottom of the hull. My problem is that the drive sprocket on the right side is grinding against the side of the first tension arm. Apparently when Tamiya assembled this particular gearbox, they might have pressed the axle on too far. Unfortunately, these new gearboxes do not have the option of adjustment that you would find on the Type I gearboxes. My most viable solution is to somehow gain just enough space between the inside sprocket and the gearbox axle. Originally I had a small piece of foam, but it didn't give quite enough breathing room to allow for normal yaw (lateral movement) of the tension arm.
Has this problem occurred for any of you guys? Suggestions?

Good morning Erush. A gap eh? Hmmm, I don't have anything like that on my Tiger. Is this area related to attaching the front plate to the hull? It's tricky, I can tell you that much. Is your front plate sitting exactly where it should be and do the screws fit? You also might want to check out the Beginner Hints Section at www.fragarmor.org . In that article they talk about a gap in the kit. I just can't remember exactly where. They also talk about how to fix it. Hope this helps.

Help!

Roy

Hi All,

THANKS for the tips! The drill/pin idea is a good one!

Is there a list (and if not, can I get one) of sites that offer items for sale for the Tiger? Also any that offer hints and such? I keep linking on the ones I see here and am finding a LOT of usefull ideas!

I still dont quite understand the gear delema. (perm brain fart I guess) Type 1 comes with kit? Type 4 is better? (why) what happened with 2 and 3?

Like a deer caught in the head lights of an on-coming vehicle..... I am frozen with fear to move at all with this project. I keep learning more and more and am worried I may miss something!

Thanks again guys!
Mike

Rocad, unless I miss my guess, Type 1 gears first came out with and for the Tiger I, Type 2s and 3s were for the Sherman and the Pershing. The Type 4s were an improved version for the Tiger I and King Tiger.

Roy

My head's spinning trying to keep up with all the gear and motor combinations you guys are talking about!
Kinda glad I have the static kit now! I'd go nuts trying to decide what would be the best set o' gizmos for my Tiger.
Good luck, gentlemen!

He who dies with the most gizmos...wins!

Okie :

I hit that one too when putting my sprockets onto the 'toy' shaft (still awaiting a donor set of gearboxes) My solution was to adjust the brass sprocket-mounts on the axle.

Are you telling us those are ~pressed~ onto the Type 4 shafts, and not set-screwed? Why would Tamiya change that, after using that method so well on the other variants?

If thats truely the case , why now put a washer inside the shaft side of the sprocket? You might have to Dremel it for the flats...

Something sounds wrong... I'll ask the RC guys, and get back to ya, ok?

Rocad :

You mean other detail parts besides Aber? Dirk has metal-cast parts, including functional shackle loops, metal tow cables, and lots of other parts, some even duplicating some Aber parts (track hangers) You can hit his Yahoo Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DP-Thema/ . I have some of his parts now, and the quality is superb! A warning though: he's a bit backed up at the mo, so delivery may take a while.

GearBox Generations :

Type 1's (no black cover) were used for the 56005 Sherman, 56007 Porsche King Tiger, and 56010/56011 Tiger 1's.

Type 2's (first ones with the black cover) went into the 56014 MF-loaded Sherman.

Type 3's were used in ~only~ the Pershing , as it had the final drive ratio ~outside~ the hull, like the Panther & T34 does (most bets are on those two, not a Leopard 2A5 being next)

Type 4's were introduced with the 56018 Production King Tiger, and have been retrofitted to many others because of its almost-all metal makeup.

This help?

Erush :

I think I know where you're looking:

Look at the driver's visor - MG blister armor plate from ~under~ the front fender (as if you're laying on the ground in the path of the track!) That front plate doesn't extend down to touch the chassis hull! A simple solution to prevent crap entering here is to glue a scrap of sprue in there(my choice) or just stick a bit of foam-tape there like 'weatherstripping'.

WhiteWolf

I checked out Dirk's Parts. Picture's dont match price list ! So it's hard to figure it out!

There are some things he has I want! Shells, muzzle break, ext....

I'd Like to get a list of any place that has stuff. Will deal with Will's also when he gets back to me.

Still looking for the black bag, I sent ya an email earlier!

Mike

Ok, I think you spotted it WW. Here's a few pics. Eric, Roy, y'all look at yours for me and see if it's there. Filling the gap will be no problem but I want to make sure it's not going to bite me down the road.






As you can see, the front plate is down tight against the lower hull and I can't see anything I've done wrong. Any input guys? can you see anything that doesn't look lined up right? It's baffling me because I can't imagine Tamiya having that big a gap in their kit, but I can't find any other reason either.

Eric

Eric, is it like that on both sides? It does seem to be kinda funky. Not having even taken the pieces out of the box yet, I'm in no position to give advice yet!
How about the rest of you almost-finished fellas?

By the way, the unconfirmed rumor is that Tamiya's next biggie tank will in fact be the Leo 2A5.
Too bad, cuz that vehicle doesn't interest me at all, for some reason...

Eric,

I have the same gap on mine & everything sits flush. Interesting!

I'll have to check mine when I get home for the gap. As for the sprocket/axle problem, there is no adjustment on my Type 4 gearboxes for the axle shaft. (I wish there was because then I wouldn't have to get inventive!) I ended up using some synthetic rubber cement to thicken the inside of the sprocket and then I cut out a spacer from some black, electrician's tape. That seemed to give me the space I needed between the tension arm and the sprocket. But I think I'll try White Wolf's advice and modify a washer to fit inside the sprocket for a more reliable spacer. White Wolf, thanks for checking in on this for me. I appreciate it.

Roy

WHEeewwww, Thanks Eric, WW and Roy when you look. I was worried there for a bit. At least I know it wasn't something I did now. I think it will be easy enough to cut a block of styrene to go in the gap from behind and fill it. I wonder why tamiya left that gap there unless it's for cooling purposes for the R/C kits??? Oh well, I'll be fillin away on it now.

Brian, yes it is on both sides and now that the others have confirmed it, don't panic when you suddenly spot it. It actually hides pretty good until you spot it, then it leaps out at you and you wonder how you missed it before.

Eric

Zoiks!
I wonder if it does have something to do with cooling or sound distribution or something I can't even imagine. The hardest thing to imagine is Tamiya not doing something like that for a reason!
Then again, they used to leave all their sponsons floorless, sooooo....ya never know!

Well so far my tank has fit together perfectly, except for the sprocket problem I'm currently dealing with... But even with that, it's simply because I'm using the Type 4 gears vs. the Type 1 gears that came with it. I don't plan to modify the fit with regard to Erush's gap any further. (I've had enough modifications for one kit!)

Roy

Finally , I have resumed the build.

Working on the PE for the Bosch headlights and the rivets on the back of the turret.

Ya' happy now Eric

QUOTE: Originally posted by Erock68 Finally , I have resumed the build. Working on the PE for the Bosch headlights and the rivets on the back of the turret. Ya' happy now Eric

Yeah! Well, actually I was hoping for a little more time to catch up

Eric

Good morning tank commanders! Why am I so happy? I found the solution to my axle/sprocket dilemma. (Major sigh of relief!) I have to give props to White Wolf. You know I just hadn't looked at the problem in the right light until White Wolf mentioned using a washer. Well, instead of trying to find a washer with the appropriate sized hole for the screw and necessary thickness for space, I simply used a 2mm thick piece of Evergreen sheet plastic. I cut the rough shape and glued it to the axle shaft, then used the dremel with a sanding tip to shape it to fit the inside of the sprocket. It fit perfectly and now the sprocket will turn free and clear of the tension arm. The whole process took only about 15 mintues. Now the tracks are on and it's time to roll!

Erush, I checked my Tiger for the gap you mentioned and I think I know why I didn't see mine. The gap is there, however due to the application of zimmerit, it can't be seen from the top side. It's only noticable from the underside. (No light shining through) I'll be installing the electronics next using velcro instead of the double sided tape so I can easily remove them if I need to make repairs or adjustments. I'll also use the velcro on my on/off switch and place it under the engine compartment hatch. Due to my modifications, this hatch opens and closes. And the build continues!

Roy

Good on ya, Roy! It's a good feeling getting something sorted out, eh? Now, pix, please!

I picked up a sheet of Hussar decals today (the same that Erush got, I think) at the LHS. Still not sure which vehicle I'm gonna do.
Decisions, decisions...
Here's what the sheet looks like:



Is this the same sheet you have, Eric?

I'm still thinking about doing a gray vehicle, maybe the one with the big white "222" on it.

Hey J-Hulk, nice to hear from you. Yeah, it feels damn good to have that problem fixed.
By now I have tons of pics, from the base coat to the camo pattern, the wash, dry brushing, buff/dust coat, numbers, and the final dull coat. Quite a change from the pics I last posted. I also documented the steps I took to mask off and paint the Tamiya GFS battle unit. I painted that camo like the tank and recently used Solva-set to apply a German cross to the top of it. Hopefully I'll be able to post these pics in the next week.
So will you be using the solid white numbers, or the numbers that are white outlines?

Roy

Still haven't decided which way I'm going.
If I do gray and use the Hussar sheet, the only choice is to use the big white 222s.

Brian, That's the same decal sheet me and my other brother Eric have! They look pretty good, nice and thin.

Roy, sounds like you've really been making progress!! As far as the gap goes, it took awhile before I noticed it myself and that's when I nutted up. I'm going to fill mine since it's a static kit anyway and I don't want it to show on the off chance someone else looks under there!!

On the tracks, Brian you might want to take note also. I noticed the kit tracks (I was prepping the spares Eric sent me for the front ) have some gawd awful ejection pin marks and raised number molded on the inside of the links. I worked for a whole evening trying to clean them up and that "resin" (more like nylon) doesn't clean or scrape well, it starts getting fluffy when you try to sand it and even a high speed cutter in a dremal doesn't clen them well. You can see where I did everything after a coat of paint so the main track runs would almost be impossible to really look good on a static kit. I'm debating on the metal tracks now just because I don't think I have the patience to try to make the kit tracks look good. I may come up with something else to try but I'll worry about it later.

Eric

Eric, have you applied the decals already? They do look good on the sheet.
Hmmmm...the trax. I would suspect that they'd get all frayed and fuzzy if you sanded, as I've found on their 1/25 trax, and have seen on well-used RC tigers.
Will have to think deeeeeply....

About those tracks...

Hey Erush, you are doing way too much work! To get rid of those numbers I took an X-acto knife and cut them off. It can be a bit time consuming, but no more so than having to do each one with a dremel. (5 to 10 seconds per link). The plastic cuts really nice if your blade is sharp. However I only had to do this on the tracks that I'll be hanging on the turret. As for the tracks mounted on the tank, you won't be able to see the numbers on the tracks because the road wheels cover them up. The numbers are in between the track horns.

Roy

Brian, nooooo I have not applied any decals I was just looking at them on the sheet but you can tell they aren't too thick by looking at the edges.

Roy I realize the number are inside the horns, (I get a little anal sometimes once I'm working on something ) BUT, the pin marks on the outside portion of the tracks is raised also and they won't slice off perfectly flush as there's some sink in the links there also. Then if you try to sand it smooth it starts to frey some . It's just one of those things for me, especially in this scale it's going to be really noticable. I'll probably end up buying some metal tracks for it later on.

Eric

Well, you got me there Erush. I had forgotten about the pin marks. You're right, I'd buy the metal tracks too if I were in your position. So we know that J-Hulk will be doing an early version, have you already picked out a version and a paint scheme? Have I missed it?

Roy

Just a thought on the raised number problem...

Have you tried heating up a piece of metal and melting them? I have used that before to cut down on the fuzzy problem. Even a VERY short blast of direct flame might help.

If you are going to buy metal tracks anyway, try it?

Mike

Roy I mentioned it somewhere in the previous 37 pages I'm going to do No. 311 in the 2 color scheme.

Mike That's an idea worth trying! I'll try it on a couple of the spares first and see how it works

Eric

The quick direct flame should take the fuzz right off!
Mike

GUYS !

Flames risk slagging more than the numbers & fuzz!

Use a fragged soldering iron tip! I use to 'weld' plastic that way years ago, before I found out about solvent glues. Then again, I was using an old Weller 'gun' with the heavy wire tips, and my dad made me replace all the ones I fragged.

If ya don't wanna resort to that, use one of the wood-working X-acto blade-tips, the rounded 'groove' blade would do nicely to get inside a depression.

Besides, once you go to get the tracks a bit worn and rusty, any slight imperfections are gonna disappear under the paint, right?

WhiteWolf
(who needs to get off his and ~finish~ his side fenders)

The QUICK flame was ment to get rid of ONLY the fuzz left over from sanding.