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ARMOR - Tamiya 1/16 Tiger 1 Group Build

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:00 AM
Thanks for the info on the PE sets for Tiger 2. I have another question for the group.

What are everyone's prefered material for Zimmermat and the method for applying it?

Thanks, Morgan
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by okieboy on Saturday, January 24, 2004 10:15 AM
Hi Morgan,

I personally like how R&J Products' "Zimm-it-Rite" worked for me. But then I'm biased because it's the only material I've ever used! If you want to know more about materials like milliput and putty, I'd ask "Moses" here in the forum. He's the resident master of zimm here in the forum. For my 1/16 Tiger I, I used the Zimm-it-Rite with the fine tines of a hair comb; worked great.

Okieboy
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." George Orwell
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Steeler Country
Posted by Kumy on Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:29 AM
Okie is right.... Moses does fantastic zimmerit. I think he used Tamiya Polyester Putter? and a Tamiya zimmerit tool?

I wonder how hard it would be to custom make a tool. You might be able to take some nice thin metal sheet then cut the tooth pattern into it? It could get tricky.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Sunday, January 25, 2004 5:49 AM
Okieboy!
Good to see ya.
You too, Kumakichi!
And welcome, Morgan.
~Brian
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:44 PM
Here's a new pic. I put the Bosch emblem on the headlight covers and I think these had to be the most fragile parts in this Aber set. I was sweating getting them on here without breaking them but I managed. More to come...



Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 26, 2004 6:40 AM
Eric,

Out of all the stuff in the PE set, those emblems were a pain to keep in place Angry [:(!]

PS......

Hey,I thought of a second job for you...

You can be a Hand Model Big Smile [:D]Tongue [:P]Big Smile [:D]Tongue [:P]
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Monday, January 26, 2004 6:47 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Erock68

Eric,

Out of all the stuff in the PE set, those emblems were a pain to keep in place Angry [:(!]

PS......

Hey,I thought of a second job for you...

You can be a Hand Model Big Smile [:D]Tongue [:P]Big Smile [:D]Tongue [:P]


Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D] LOL Eric, that's a good one!! Got me smiling nice and early in the morning.

Those emblems were a pain to hold in place for gluing! My big 'ol fingers could barely hold them without covering the whole thing but I managed to tack one end down then get the rest. (I have a panavise if I'd just get the thing out and use it. Of course I have a 1/16th Tiger hull covering half my desk space too! Tongue [:P] ) I'll shoot the picture off to you this evening for the websight Bro.

Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Steeler Country
Posted by Kumy on Monday, January 26, 2004 9:40 PM
Hey J-Hulk... hows the new year going so far? Smile [:)]

Hey just a quick question to everybody who's using the PE or anybody who's knowledgeable about screw taps. I see that Micromark has a bunch and have looked at some other online sites. I don't see them calling out any 1mm dia. taps but maybe I'm just not understanding the terminology. Does anybody own or intend on picking up a tap?
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by okieboy on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:40 AM
Hiya All,

Hey J-Hulk, are you finshed with that BMP? I was wondering if I missed it. I'd also like to know when I can start looking forward to your Tiger! Tongue [:P]

Erush, nice nails bro. I can see that you keep them clean and don't chew em'! How often do you get a manicure? Wink [;)] Just kidding bro!

Okie
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." George Orwell
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:46 AM
Kuma, I did some research into getting a tap for those 1mm bolts and found that it was was too expensive to worry about. What I'm doing on mine is drilling the holes slightly undersized and will let the bolts cut their own threads. Micro-Mark doesn't carry anything that small btw, so you're not overlooking them.

Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 10:43 AM
Lovely hands indeed, Eric!

New year is a-flyin' by! Can't believe it's almost February.

The BMP-3 was finished and sent off to the Armour Modelling offices in Tokyo. I think it turned out pretty good, but I wish I coulda had one more week with it...
I got the pictures back via e-mail, and wrote all the Japanese text. In an ironic twist of linguistic mayhem, tonight I had to translate it all into English for them! Easy, since I wrote the Japanese in the first place! A full English version and a short synopsis for the magazine. I'll be a-postin' pix and text for ya'll sometime after February 13, the date the March issue hits the stands.

Tigers! Yes, I'm certainly getting closer to starting that baby...how long have I been saying that?
~Brian
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:12 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by okieboy

Hiya All,

Hey J-Hulk, are you finshed with that BMP? I was wondering if I missed it. I'd also like to know when I can start looking forward to your Tiger! Tongue [:P]

Erush, nice nails bro. I can see that you keep them clean and don't chew em'! How often do you get a manicure? Wink [;)] Just kidding bro!

Okie


Roy, we're all wondering when we can see him start on his Tiger! Whistling [:-^] Tongue [:P] Wink [;)] Big Smile [:D] Whistling [:-^]

And I do my own nails with my pocketknife. Every few days or so when I get bored Big Smile [:D]

Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:50 PM
Whitewolf,

I just read your reply and I have discoved that if you put too many m,s in the address it doesn't work. M+M Models have a website but the home page doesn't take you anywhere. I retraced my steps and did a google search again. I typed in (micro hex bolts) when that pops up go to the second page and the 5th item done is Z-Scale with the the rest of the gobbledegook that goes with it. Anyway, the page is www.home.earthlink.net/~mmodels/trains1.html Phone#(708)-423-7202 and the part # for a bag of 25 1mm hex bolts is AGN10B = $10.00. I got in this morning a 0400 and now I'm off to work again. Next time I'll read what I type before I send it.

Irontrail
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:22 AM
Thanks for welcome and for all the info on Zimmerit applications. But I have a couple more questions about Zimmerit if you don't mind.

It looks like there are two main camps of materials, Zimm-it-rite and Tamiya's polyester putty. What allows the most durable finish when done?

This is an RC tank and will be handled by me and my 10 year old son who is chomping at the bit to get this done. Tongue [:P] Fortunately it does not go 30 mph like his 1/12 scale Hummer. No weathering needed there, he added his own, unfortunately it does not look like battle damage but road rash! Big Smile [:D]

I know there are application tools for these but are the for 1/16 scale or 1/35?

Sounds like others have used metal combs and such because of this reason.

Thanks again! Morgan
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by okieboy on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:57 AM
Hey Morgan,

Like I said, I've only used Zimm-It-Rite, but I've found it to be VERY durable. After I'd applied it and let it dry, I could sand it with a dremel. Of course it does have its limits. If you work it too roughly, it will chip off like the real thing. This works out nicely for weathering and battle damage. What scale are you building? Mine was 1/16, so all I had to use was the small tines of a hair comb. I got directions from the tips section at www.fragarmor.org . The tools available are usually for 1/35 scale.

Okieboy
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." George Orwell
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:15 AM
Thanks for welcome and for all the info on Zimmerit applications. But I have a couple more questions about Zimmerit if you don't mind.

It looks like there are two main camps of materials, Zimm-it-rite and Tamiya's polyester putty. What allows the most durable finish when done?

This is an RC tank and will be handled by me and my 10 year old son who is chomping at the bit to get this done. Tongue [:P] Fortunately it does not go 30 mph like his 1/12 scale Hummer. No weathering needed there, he added his own, unfortunately it does not look like battle damage but road rash! Big Smile [:D]

I know there are application tools for these but are the for 1/16 scale or 1/35?

Sounds like others have used metal combs and such because of this reason.

Thanks again! Morgan
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:19 AM
Sorry about the double post. I forgot to put my name and password on this reply and it failed so I guess I clicked back too many times and reposted my previous message.

Anyways....

Okieboy, thanks for the quick reply. It looks like Zimm-it-rite is the way to go. What about the working time? How long do you have before it hardens up so you can modify it?

Thanks, Morgan
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Steeler Country
Posted by Kumy on Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:28 PM
Your right about the tools... I think only 1/35 scale zimmerit tools exist for now. You could take Okie's advice.... his Tiger turned out great. There are some pic's of it you can have a look at.

Btw Okie... I think I found my Tiger.... this is really stretching things because I don't have a color scheme to go by but I have 4 or 5 different pic's. All are Tigers from the sPzAbt. 502 but there are 3 different "early version" tanks I'm lookin at. I have a color scheme from the same division only it was slightly later. The color scheme is of a mid production with features like on the Tiger you built. But it gives me a good guide to base my scheme on. I'm pretty happy I've narrowed it down and I'll just pick from one of these tanks to try and build.

I'm going to try and airbrush my letters on since the pictures I"m looking at show stenciled numbers rather than the hand brushed kind. Any suggestions on how to approach this? I work on CAD for a living so reproducing them that fashion would be fairly easy for me. Its just what medium to choose. I thought about vellum and tacking it down with future. But I thought you mentioned contact paper Okie? Think this would do the trick? Have any of your RC friends tried this?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 30, 2004 11:55 AM
TRY TO IMPROVE SUSPENSION

Hello,

because the original torsion bars of the Tamiya Tiger I feels to stiff to me I would like to find a better way. Here is my first try.
I can adjust the strength with turning the screw or, if this wont work with the full weight of the Tiger, I could shorten the spring.



Bye bye
panzerpabst
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Friday, January 30, 2004 9:55 PM
That's pretty ingenious Matthias. Welcome to the build and keep us updated on your progress!!

Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Steeler Country
Posted by Kumy on Saturday, January 31, 2004 8:44 PM
Very clever idea Smile [:)] Hows it working out so far?
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by okieboy on Monday, February 2, 2004 7:17 AM
Okay, I'm back...

Hey Morgan, once you've mixed Zimm-It-Rite's two main components into a composite, you have about 3 to 4 hours of working time. I would recommend trying a technique similar to rolling dough with a metal roller and then applying a sheet of the composite to the surface. Then you merely trim the excess with a knife and comb it for texture. This is much easier than smoothing it on by hand like I originally did. The zimm takes 12 hours to permanently harden, so do one side of the vehicle and then focus on something else while it sets up. Once it's set up, it will chip like the real thing, although I would make "battle damage" and chipped areas while it's only been on an hour or two. That way, you can control the damage easier. After 4 to 6 hours, it feels similar to hardened wax when I used my X-acto knife.

Congratulations on picking a Tiger Kuma! I used red numbers with white outlines and here's how I did it. If you work with CAD for a living, then you have an advantage over me. All I did was take the stock decals and make three or four color copies of them onto contact paper. Then using an X-acto blade, I cut out the red numbers. Now I had a stencil which I stuck to the tank and airbrushed the red numbers over my zimm. After that dried, I bought a very tiny sable hair paint brush and applied the white outline by hand. This worked out well since I had applied zimmerit to my tank, and any paint on that surface will look naturally rough and "field expedient". If you're not applying zimmerit though, I wouldn't hand paint. I'd airbrush, or use Hussar's dry transfers. Good luck!

Okieboy
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." George Orwell
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 3, 2004 12:49 AM
Irontrail:

Hmmm, those seem damned expensive, but then again, the 00-80 brass ones are about the same price (head is the same size but thread-shaft is bigger)

Those 0.0mm rivets look interesting though, especially as the rear stowage bin apparently is in need of 'em... anyone gonna buy a packet?

Zimmerit:

Someone recommended using a worn RC car pinion for making the grooves, though I thought a single pinion may not be quite wide enough. Either match a second 'track' beside the first or locktite a pair flat-to-flat and use those. Your 'strip-width' of Zimm is set, but you are not 'dragging' the comb thru the stuff but making the marks via displacement, so make the 'sheet' a bit thinner, as the pinions will push the stuff up in between the teeth.

And an ESSENTIAL: brush the pinion with oil, as it'll keep the putty from sticking to the pinions. Then you can gently wash any residue off later with an airbrush'd 'jetwash' method (reason I dinna toss my ancient Badger 350 in the trash, makes a dandy cleaning nozzle)

WhiteWolf
with a miriad of mismatched techniques and data...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:04 AM
Thanks for all the info on Zimmerit applications. I ordered my Zimm-it-rite from RJ yesterday so I should have it before the weekend. Don't think I will be far enough along on the exterior to apply this weekend but will be ready to do so the following week.

Thanks, Morgan
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 7:15 PM
Report on M&M Models:

I asked about the rivets, having addressed it to their armor specialist and saying it was for the Tiger 1E Aber set. He said the 0.5mm rivets would do the trick.

I'd also asked if they were just heads, or had mini-shafts for easier placement. He replied they have a 3/32 length shaft, so placement will be fairly easy even for a klutz like me (dinna think I was until I started on this set)

So, anyone interested in splitting a packet of rivets with me? I'm still debating bolts (&nuts) as I need some for my King Tiger...

MicroFasteners has the 00-80's (same size head but bigger shaft) in quantities of 100 for $6.20 (1/8") to $7.60 (3/4") and nuts are $3.35/100 nonscale, $6.00/50 scale (much cheaper than M&M's)

www.microfasteners.com

WhiteWolf
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 9, 2004 4:34 PM
OK, let's give the American tank boys an overwiev of what the German guys are doing with their free time and their TIGERS:
-suspension improvement : one guy figured out that the driving Tiger models does'nt look like 60 ton vehicles because of the hard suspension.
solution 1: replace the torsion bars with progressive spiral springs. You can buy a comlete set with 16 axles with springs for 95 EURO - too expensive for me.
Here is a link to the shop with pics : http://www.wecohe.de/images/Fed_T1.jpg
solution 2: make the original bars thinner, file it to get an triangle (progressive) or thinner square (less progressive) shape in the middle section.
Here is a pic : http://www.rcpanzer.de/apboard/thread.php?id=7492 click on P1010248.JPG

-gear ratio modification: the same guy also found the Tigers are too fast for this scale, also metal traxs need more power
solution : he designed a gear modification with additional gear wheels. An additional mounting between the left and right gearbox gets more stability. BUT the same problem: too expensive , 315 EURO
here are pics : http://www.wecohe.de/images/GTR_1.jpg and http://www.rcpanzer.de/apportal/main.php?c=tiger1_bernd

-main gun elevator unit fix: it seems to be a comon problem: the clutch within this unit is'nt working very well after intensive use. So the gun is moving up by itself caused by vibrations.
solution : turn the clutch into a gear wheel (use glue). use 2 micro switches to stop the motor at the end points:
here is a link : http://www.rcpanzer.de/apportal/main.php?c=rohrelevation

-high freq noise of speaker fix : some cheap electronic components will help to reduce this high frequence noise.
Here is a link with german description, if you want to know more about this let me know. http://www.koenigstiger.net/Tips_und_Tricks/tips_und_tricks.html

The german Tamiya website provides a report of building and painting the TIGER, it's the Tiger 314 of a member of our forum. It's one of the best models I have ever seen. Here are the links:
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=212&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=211&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=210&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=209&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=208&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=207&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=206&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=205&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=204&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=203&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=202&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09
http://www.rc-tamiya.de/tamiya/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=201&PHPKITSID=fceb9383959b2a4e62a77dec2cac7f09


Feel free to ask me if you are interested in any special information.

Ok, thats all for today.

Bye Bye from Germany
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 9, 2004 11:54 PM
PzPabst:

Posted the spring reduction to one of the US boards, no interest at all. Did see it as innovative though... just wrong focus. Some have tried adjusting the torsion bars though... usually with lighter spring-steel.

The idler arms need much more attention, as the ones on the KT are badly done, and the ones on the Tiger 1 have no give at all.

As for prices, most of the German stuff is vastly overpriced. We can usually have a similar item custom made over in America for less cost... the metal-cast tracks are a prime example... under $200 here, and they are ~how-~ much in Germany?

As for reductions, Willy Loewer has that in hand, and at a MUCH lower cost. For $85 US and shipping, you get two reduction modules. You pull your motor, mount these where the motor was, and then mount the motor on them, and finally reverse your motor wires. Willy's have become the accepted norm over here.

As for stiffening, we've generally gone to 2.5mm aluminum hull plates. You use sountersink replacements to the tamiya's but all the pre-existing holes, and so far, the guys say its prolonged gearbox life (used to get ruined due to chassis-twist)

Dunno about the speaker diagrams, the nomenclature for the wiring doesn't come trough properly (don't know of any component calibrated in miliHertz (mH))

And I wondered why Tamiya dinna go with microswitch endstops in the first place, though their method is probably cheaper (lately Tamiya has been getting stingy: look at the Kubelwagen's radio)

WhiteWolf
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 12:27 PM
Greetings fellow modelers. Just joined this web site and you fellows have inspired me to get off my butt and start that Tiger I that has been languishing since the first day it appeared in the stores. I am a 52 yr old commercial Realtor in Calgary, Alberta and an avid collector of 1/32 aircraft as well as r/c tanks and r/c gas powered boats. Pretty diversified and expensive but have an understanding wife and kids.
Until this morning did not know metal barrels and photoetched parts were available. Looking forward to communicating with you and getting advice from you more experienced folks. Thanks in advance for the excellant articles and photos I have found thus far.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Steeler Country
Posted by Kumy on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:26 PM
Welcome to the group vjtukk Smile [:)]

There is a lot of stuff available for your Tiger. The Aber set is just incredible. You can get a metal barrel, metal tracks and if your Tiger is a full option you have some options available to you like motor swapping. It'll be easy to get carried away Wink [;)]. Good luck with your build!!

I've been creeping along with mine. Partly due to work... partly due to waiting on stuff I ordered.... partly because of that insane Aber PE set. I've been working on the rear of my Tiger adding little PE bits. I drilled out my shrouds but had to wait to get extra drill bits small enough to put on the mounts. I've been looking that over carefully. Also I picked up some Instant Rust and I'm giving that a try on my mufflers. And I've been getting ready to do some zimmerit. I'm try going the route that Moses does with his zim... polyester putty and a tool. It should be interesting Tongue [:P]

pzpabst

Thanks for sharing. Those Tiger pictures are very nice. Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:43 AM
Welcome, vjtukk!
Pzpabst, thanks for those great links!
~Brian
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