ARMOR - Tamiya 1/16 Tiger 1 Group Build

Kuma, one other thing, I filled the pivot mounts with CA before I filed them also. Make them solid because you'll end up filing away a good portion of the thickness of the side pieces of the brass. Aber was off a bit on their measurement of those pivots but it's not too hard to overcome. I also used a thick piece of wire coming out the bottom of the pivots and drilled over sized holes in the kit by placing the completed fender where it belonged and marking between the hinge pieces. Then put the pivots on and place the whole thing down, the oversized holes allow for any mis-drilled holes and then glue them from the bottom.

Eric

Thats a good plan. Unfortunately I'm too far along to go that route.

What I did was carefully marking and drilling my holes using the original hinge locations as guides. I drilled my holes then I used a dremel to get rid of the remaining fender. I cut my pieces of rod to length and then with a pair of needle nose pliers I pushed them into the holes and it was a very snug fit. These will hopefully be my studs to which I'll now mount the pivots too. Now if I can just get the pivots to the right width.

I did notice another potential problem. The holes in the pivots themselves aren't the right size. Accordin to the instructions it takes a .6mm piece of wire that goes thru the pivots and the hinges on the fenders. But the holes in the fenders seem undersized. I couldn't get a piece of wire thru them. I had to start drillin them out. Its easy if you have the PE on the frets but once you cut them off its hard to drill a hold in those little suckers.

Hi,

Did you guys just GLUE the PE parts or has anyone tried solder? I started with solder but the pictures I've seen here look better than mine. Mine have solder overflow that was later removed with a solder-vac but leaves behind a silver patch (that will be painted over).

Your's just looks "cleaner" prior to painting than mine do. I choose solder because I thought it would hold better. Did you do anything to "prep" the parts before gluing? Also which glue did/do you use? (Thin, Med or Thick if the Cryo type)

Thanks,
Mike

I washed and then sanded the area's receiving glue. I used thick cyano hoping for a longer setup time but that hasn't been the case. For myself... I have to take it very methodical when glueing or else things become a real mess fast. But the bond seems pretty good. So far...knock on wood... I haven't had any pieces just fall apart. One of my front fenders hinges came loose when I started putting pressure on it.

Aber on eBay:

Two Aber Fret-Stes on eBay:

16002 Basic Set: Frets A, B, C, & D. This has all the latches, catches, wingnuts, eyebolts & other small bits to complete other assemblies.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183730210

16008 Detail Set: J Fret for the S-mines, turret stowage bin hatch covers & ventilator lockdown cover.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3183730934

Seller in in UK with 100% rating, prices in Brit Pounds. Accepts almost everything paymentwise. Hope he aint looking for that Buy It Now. Prices are cheaper from the usuals here in NA.

Might try for the 16002, could use eyebolt spares... and wingnut spares too... expect to do the ~tweezer-pult~ thing...

WhiteWolf

New Miracle Epoxy?

I saw this mentioned somewhere, and had to find out WTF it was... http://www.MagicSculp.com . Its supposed to have Milliput and the other epoxies beat...

This stuff is a two-part, 1-to-1 mix putty-type epoxy that smoothes with water. Its relatively forgiving on the 1:1 ratio, so you don't need an f'in scale to mix it. This stuff chemically cures (exothermic) and when hard, this stuff is supposedly like bloody ~rock~. It claims to have a rather long working life (a few hours) if kept cool post-mix, and could be used for making part molds or doing Zimmerit.

The upside is that unlike regular resin, this stuff might hold up to RC use... like track links and other stressed parts. They claim it won't fracture or melt, and can be safely ground once cured. And the unmixed material has an lifetime of, well, probably a lifetime!

To that end, has anyone tried it? I'm tempted to spring for an 8 oz set ($12.95 plus shipping) just to see how much this stuff is capable of.

WhiteWolf

Hello All,

WhiteWolf

Thanks for posting the info on the Aber etch on ebay, looks interesting.



Here's a picture of the Aber 16012 - TIGER I AMMO SET, needless to say, it looks amazing... a bit on the expensive side though.



Here's a link to where it's sold in North America

http://www.airconnection.on.ca/


BUDA

Hi,

THANKS ALOT BUDA....ya just cost me ANOTHER $30! hahahah...

Just placed my order, will write about em when they get here.

Jezzzz, I can't believe how much I have spent on my Tiger and I haven’t gotten past step 3 or so! (stopped and waiting for parts from Willy)

Full Arbor set
Barrel
Battle System
Metal Tracks
Suspension
Hold & Fold plus other vendor's tools for ROUND shapes
R/C Kubalwagen (sp?) to practice painting and weathering
TONS of weathering kits (paints, pastels, powders, chemicals, books, vid's,tools...)
Tamiya's Tiger CD
Black Carry Bag
Ammo
5 or so 1/16th figures to steal parts from (guns, helmets. ect)
Extra resin boxes, guns, decals for uniforms and helmets, metals

And then to make myself feel better... I just bought the 1/8th Miss Bud RTR Gas Boat...sweet!

What's holding me up is my indecision about the Arbor. I think I'm in WAY over my head. I keep telling myself to just skip it and build the tank, then I see pics here and elsewhere and what the set can add and I want to continue. OH WHAT TO DO????


I need to get the parts from Willy (bottom plate and gear set) plus I'd like to order a Muzzle from Dirk before I start on the tank again.

O.K., enough sobbing...

Mike

Buda:

Thanks for the image... but $40 Cdn is a lot for 3 shells and a storage box (or two) I gotta wonder what that grille-like PE is about though... Checked Aber's 'Instruction' page, nothing there yet, though the helmet strap/liner page is. Then again (gets an idea...) Tell y'all later, if it works.

Rocad:

Know what you mean... this stuff is... ~NOT~ easy. I made a mistake in selling the full set and buying parts, as I found I need the f'in metric wires and the track hangers. Notw I gotta find a supplier for metric wire & tube, and drills.

And by my count, I've put as much into these sheets as I got for the set... (not counting the very-welcome freebie)

Have begged Aber to sell me a set of hangers, no reply yet.

If you're gonna let 'em go, sell me your hangers Rocad? (Engage Beg & Grovel Mode! )

I have most of a Aber set, metal barrel, and some of Dirk's stuff, but I don't see the point in metal tracks ot a battle system if I'm running solo. Then again I've got ~three~ tanks needing attention... (T1, KT/P & M4) and currently the Sherman is begging for that Easy Eight turret...

WhiteWolf
( hoping to unload his Kyosho Blizzards soon )

Aber is gone...

Some one snapped it up just under a day after posting. and those prices are MUCH higher than Great Models carries it for.

GM is cheaper than AirConnection for single frets, though AC is cheaper for the full set. AC is the only NA seller I can find that has the ammo boxes, though GM placed its Aber order on March 23.

*shrugs*

WhiteWolf

Another Wittman / Cromwell set surfaces!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3184154648&category=16511

Closes April 4, no Buy It Now. Seller in US, very good feedback.

Personally I'd prefer the Witman & Woll set or the cheaper dragon plastic fig. Most of the cost here is the hunk of Cromwell turret. BUT ... Kirin is quality, and rare as hell.

WhiteWolf

Aber Measurements needed!

One last call guys. I'm begging here...

Someone who hasn't started or barely done so, would ya do me a ~big~ favor? I need the lengths of the supplied wire sections from 0.3mm right up to the 1.0mm rod.

Thats 0.3mm , 0.4mm , 0.5mm , 0.6mm , 0.8mm & 1.0mm.

I know how long I need the 2.0mm (58mm x six) & I can sub 5/64" rod here. The 1.5mm is only needed for the ends of these cleaning rods. The 5.0 is for the wire rope loop sleeves. And I know how long the tow cables ~should~ be.

If I can't find a supplier of metric stuff, I'll have to buy a digital caliper and start fishing in my electronics scrap bin for wire... or go hunting with it at the craft store.

WhiteWolf
(thinking he's over the winter blahs)

ABER Set

0.3 is 13 1/4" long
0.4 is
0.5 is
0.6 is 21" long
Not sure which wire size is which

one is 19 1/4" long
the other is 48 1/4" long

Detail Associates
Has brass wire for ho trains from .0625 to .006 about $3.00
per pack 8-10 in pack 12" long
#2507 .022 = .06mm
#2506 .019 = .05mm
#2505 .015 = .04mm
#2504 .012 = .03mm
The two wire sizes are so close i am not sure of the so i just gave you the lengths i hope this helps.
Terry

Terry / RedLongArm:

Um, no measurements on the 0.4mm & 0.5mm because you started using it, or because you can't tell them apart (unsure) From the images in the front of the manual, I'd say the 0.4mm is the longer of the two lengths. Anyone else got those ones? (or got calipers to be 100% positive?)

0.3 is 13 1/4" long
0.4 is 48 1/4" ?
0.5 is 19 1/4" ?
0.6 is 21" long
0.8 is ?
1.0 is ?

The longer 0.4 would make sense if its used where the manual vaguely only says 'wire' or illustrates a rivet or nut with stud. Only big draw on the 0.5 is the hull hatch 'hinges' (which I don't need) You guys that have done the rivets, did you use the 0.4 wire for this?

1.5mm rod : (35mm x2)+(10.5mm x2)+(10mm x6) : hull hatch hinges & cleaning rod ends (manual + guess)

2.0mm tube : (58mm x6) : sections for cleaning rods (from manual)
5.0mm tube : (26mm x2) : for 2.5mm cable sleeves (from manual)

Still a few too many gaps to place an order...

I knew the wire decimal SAE sizes from my equivalent drill size chart:

#83 for 0.3mm
#78 for 0.4mm
#76 for 0.5mm
#73 for 0.6mm
#67 for 0.8mm
#60 for 1.0mm

As for Detail Associates... found reseller sites (can't find one for DA itself)

WhiteWolf
(sometimes too organised for his own good)

Aber Set

Detail Associates
box 5357 San Luis Obispo, CA 93403

Got mine through a Hobby Shop they have a web site it is
www.alshobbyshop.com
The wire size was so close I did not know one from the other I have not used any of the wire so the lenghts should be right. If you need more info email me at velvet2@prodigy.net and I will try and get it for you.

Terry

Hello,

This marks my first post on this forum...

While casually perusing the Squadron update came across the 1/16 Tiger 1. That did it. I'm back into armor after a 5-year hiatus. Snagged the display-only version along with with three Aber sets. Having a machine-shop at home I can produce all the required gooh-gahs and fiddly-bits although in this scale the bits aren't quite so fiddly. Really looking forward to this project as I have always wanted a model of a Tiger 1 but could not get motivated by the 1/35 versions. This bad boy is evil!

To any with interest I can provide images of my armor models with many many machined(by me) parts.

Cody

Welcome to the forum Cody. You are one lucky man to have a machine shop of your own. That Tiger should fly together for you.

Okieboy

Ah...

During my journey to the not-so-local hobby shop, I found out another supplier besides K&S that ~does~ carry metric sizes: specialshapes.com

I tried the website, its not working right (won't connect, won't time out) But I found this buried in a Google search:

Special Shapes
P.O. Box 7487
Romeoville, Illinois
60446-0487
1-800-517-4273

Can someone give them a call and tell them the site is buggered? And tell them they got customers waiting on the site to BUY...

Update:

Terry called, site is back up (gave me some 'overload error' Sunday morning)

They have .023" & .025" rod, but not 024", so you either jump way up or a bit down on this one, while most of the others are minor jumps up (in thou's of inch)

The metric tubing is in .5mm increments from 1.0 to 10.0mm, in 12" and 36" sections (its the .017 wall stuff)

I'm hoping the other store in town carries the wider range of Special Shapes stuff, as I still have a few sizes to buy.

And I'm pondering stuffing a bit of brass bolt in the end of the 2.0mm threaded rods instead of 1.5 rod, as the damn things were threaded.

Terry also says (quote)

NORTH WEST SHORT LINE train stuff has 1mm nuts and bolts. They also have packs of 100 for 10 bucks & some metric drills. They are on line and have a catalog nuts drills are on page 7. 6 nuts 1mm 0.95; 6 screws 0.95; bulk pack of 100 for $10.50; 1mm tap $6.55; tap & drill set 1mm $12.75 (two drills & tap)

Thanks Terry.

WhiteWolf

Hi guys want pics? try these web sites www.tankmuseum.co.uk or www.tiger-tank.com
from the Bovington Tank Museum UK complete rebuild of a Tiger captured in North Africa,from the tracks upwards, even the Maybach engine pics all in colour great detailing, and it runs ,oh and just to stir things up....... Abrams pah give me a Challenger anyday ......Aaaaah the smell of Napalm in the morning
Regards to all Stateside.. Hope this is of use to all you Heavy Metal Fans outhere mail me back with comments, be good to hear from you all.
Nick the U Boat Nut (Kathy's partner)

Hi Cody,

Welcome to the group. ANY pics you have would be great. We are always looking for new ideas and insperation!
Mike

Cody, welcome to the forum and the build. By all means post pics of your stuff, we'd love to see it.

Nick (and Kath) welcome also!

Eric

Heaven...

It seems the ~other~ hobby shop carries ~both~ Special Shapes AND Detail Associates parts... and if they don't have it, they ~will~ order it! I now have all but one size of wire, and thats on order.

And that Hob-Bits brass bolts? Its under Woodland Scenics! But others have bulk cheaper... $5 Cdn for 5 bolts? I don't think so.

Now... anyone who built-up from frets used the .025 for the fender hinges I was pondering going ~down~ to .022" rod... then I got a crazy idea... (mebbe it aint so crazy)

Why not use .025" ~tube~, using short sections glued into the hinge-roll, and then use short sections of piano wire inside the tube for the actual hinge pins? It'd make the hinge a hell of a lot stronger, right? Done right, making a 'key' from excess wire, you could even remove the pin to take the mud-flaps off for RC running ~very~easily~!!

And with all this wire, I'm sure I have enough to do parts on the KT and Sherman/M36 too... stowage points galore... and other things...

And I got the micro chain to replace the PE... its 50 links per inch, for those of ya that wanna buy. I got a foot for $4.20 (Cdn) in the railroad section, so there will be leftover for the other tanks... (Sherman light plug retaining chain for one use...)


On MagicSculp & Apoxie Sculp:

Well, finally heard back from them both. I have to import MagicSculp from Stephens International in Magnolia NJ. I can get the Aves stuff inside Canada. Looks like MS looses.

Now I have to find out which of the two closest sellers will give me the better price (both are taxidermy places - ugh!)

The big local name in art supplies (Wallacks) had never heard of it, and neither had Michaels (White Rose is gone). Wallacks wanna see molds/casts when I've got some, as they may carry it if its good. I may end up with stuff on display in the store window!


WhiteWolf
(still looking for the track castings) // (no reply from Aber yet...)

Thanks for all the info WhiteWolf,

Your .025" tube & piano wire for the hinges sounds like a great idea. Anything to maker the hinges stronger and workable is great.

Can't wait to hear back from you about the Apoxie stuff. :)

BUDA

Happy Fools Day!

I worked on the rear mud flaps today. Decided to start with them as if I messed 'em up, I could always use the stock ones. I thought if any day would be forgiving, today would be...

I don't regret going up from 24 thou to 25 thou (as sub for the 0.6mm) Trying to roll the hinge 'leaves' around that rod is a delicate chore. I managed it though, and the slight roughness of the roll might be explained as a field repair, if its even seen after painting. Toothed forceps are a distinct asset...

Going from the main hinge to the smaller ones for the outer flap was easier (for my first hinge set of four) and I'll tackle the rest tomorrow. Then its time to begin the assembly of the fender-flap as a whole...

With the experience on these rear ones, the front pair should be better and cleaner. Anyone with the bolt/stud/wingnut assembly tips (Yea, I'll look back) cause I want as much of this operational as I can make it.

On Hinge Pins...

Buda, forget it. The 25 thou rod is small, and using 25 thou tube and then piano wire inside that would be masochistic. I'm just going to leave the hinge rod a bit longer so I can pull it out with a set of fine-nose forceps.

Other thing is if you bought brass wire and not copper or aluminum, in the short sections you're gonna use, its plenty rigid. I can say you'll either pop the CA and unroll the hinge or pull the whole thing off the tank before ya bend that hinge pin.

The 'rivets' are gonna challenge me... I'm tempted to fish out some soft copper wire for riveting, that or heat a length of brass with my torch to anneal it. I may end up using straight pins... gonna practice on scrap brass from the fret edges, and some pop can aluminum. If i can do that and not tear it, i'll go back to the hinges.

If I get the rivets there ok, I'll probably move to the turret stowage bin next. Something tells me I'll be running the Tiger before I've got half this stuff done... but at least I'm going again...

WhiteWolf "Fender/Bender" McBride

Greetings!

I stumbled across this site and damn near hit the floor. Lemme give you some background as to why.

I have been obsessed with R/C tanks since I was a little kid. When I was growing up, the only tanks they had were pre-built plastic Toy's R Us type, but I love em anyway. As a pre-teen and teenager, I built many Tamiya R/C cars (in order Hornet, the Frog, Blackfoot, and finally Clodbuster) and also built plastic Robotech models (a bit of airbrush exp there, but I am very rusty now).

Recently I have been playing around with the Konami mini tanks http://www.micro-ir.com/english/

About a year ago, I discovered the Tamiya Tiger kit on Ebay, and bought the full option kit for about $600. Since then I purchased the batteries, a controller, and most recently the metal tracks and gun barrel.

I have been stressing about starting the build because I want to make sure everything I need is on hand. But finding this thread is sure calming me down a bit!!! I printed out the entire thread already and am reading through it at work on lunch (of corse!). Ya'll have been REALLY helpful so far.

Once i finish reading through the messages, I am sure I will have a few questions.

One quick question though. I was looking into buying the complete ABER kit, but in several messages some of you have said that they did not use all of the parts and in retrospect, buying the seperate kits may have been a better option.

Tanken directly off the airconnection site, which ones would you recommend...

GERMAN HELMETS - LINERS, CHINSTRAPS WITH DECALS
PE 16002 TIGER I E EARLY - BASIC SET (LIMITED EDITION)
PE 16003 TIGER I E EARLY - GRILLS (LIMITED EDITION)
PE 16004 TIGER I E E EARLY/LATE - FRONT FENDERS (LIMITED EDITION)
PE 16005 TIGER I E EARLY/LATE - REAR FENDERS (LIMITED EDITION)
PE 16006 TIGER I E EARLY/LATE - SIDE FENDERS (LIMITED EDITION) PE 16007 TIGER I E EARLY/LATE - EXHAUST COVERS (LIMITED EDITION) PE 16008 TIGER I E EARLY - ADDITIONAL SET (LIMITED EDITION)
PE 16009 TIGER I E EARLY - COMMANDER'S CUPOLA (LIMITED EDITION) PE 16010 TIGER I E EARLY - DRIVER'S HATCH (LIMITED EDITION)
PE 16012 TIGER I AMMO WITH WOODEN BOX AND PE
PE 16013 GERMAN CLAMPS AND CLASPS

Does anyone know if some of the small set overlap in parts?!?

Also one other question, recommendations on a brand/model air brush set? I need to pick one up and brush (pardon the pun) off the rust a bit before painting this kit :P

Thanks a TON!

Major Burns

Major, I was not a part of this build and hence can give you no advice about the kit, but I just wanted to say to the forum.

As far as Aber, you can find what sheets are included in each kit on their site:

http://www.aber.net.pl/ramka_aber_ang.html

I find that site very useful!

And as far as an airbrush, I am very happy with my Badger 150. I also hear that Iwata are among the best. I would definitely recommend getting a double action air brush.

Good luck with the Tiger!!

Welcome Frank (cute moniker)

Well, as one of the fools that let a full set go to use individual frets, I'm saying: GO FULL SET!

#1: It provides ALL the wire, rod and tube you need, and the individual packets don't tell you how much you'll need.

#2: You get a BUNCH of extra bits, like the cast hatch hinge parts, the track holder castings, and the braided wire & loop-braces for making the tow cables, plus a real hunk of hardwood for the jack block and microbolts for attaching the fenders & exhaust guards.

#3: You get that gorgeous manual (all 53 pages of it) instead of loose sheets packed with the frets.

As for what you 'need', many of the sets can stand alone, like the fenders and exhaust guards. But the majority of the rest require the basic set 16002 as it has all the wingnut, latch, catch & eyebolt parts. Note that only parts 16002 thru 16010 come in the SuperSet. Most of us agree the 16012 ammo packet is gorgeous too.

You don't have to use it all, and someone recently sold off a few frets on eBay. I got a few of my parts from the generous guys here, and one of 'em bought my SuperSet when I sold it

That said, you will need other things: a folding tool, either an Etch-Mate or Hold&Fold. In retrospect, I'll say go 8" H&F. it has the larger capacity that you may need for the Tiger parts.

Then you want the brush-on type CA (Locktite makes it) and probably some tweezers and/or forceps. And lots of X-acto blades & some fine sandpaper & files for cutting and smoothing the PE when you've removed it from the frets, and to prep it for assembly (Eduard has a good PE basics page)

A warning though: the guys will agree this stuff can be fragile... if you're gonna be running full RC, some of this may get damaged (like fenders) If you don't want the risk, there are other detailing options... It all depends on how far ya wanna go.

WhiteWolf
Amateur Detailer and dedicated R/C tanker (with 3)

Hello all,
My 1st time on this site...

I am building a 1/16 Tiger 1, using the complete ABER PE set. I have been perusing erock68's site on the group build - very impressive work! I have some questions on erush's excellent PE work:

- What is the best way to put the raised ribs into the exhaust pipe heat guards?
- Also, the guards look like they might have been annealed to facilitate their forming into a U shape (they seem to have "burn marks")?
- Anyone have a secret on how to roll hinge knuckles (leaves) smoothly (I can relate to WhiteWolf's "field repair" look above)?

Thanks in advance for any advice...

Mr. Palermo:

Well, as the 'leaves' are about half-thickness PE sheet, its hard to say 'practice' with some scrap, but after looking at soft drink can aluminum, you could use that instead.

The trick I found was once you got the leaf-tab rolled up enough to grip it around the 0.6mm rod (I used an uncut piece for ease of handling) you can 'roll' it with a set of toothed forceps. It 'rolls' almost the same way you roll a poster in your hands.

To get the leaves evenly rolled compared to each other, I placed the main flat section in the fold took (of your choice) and then adjusting the rod to lay flat against the folder-base and straight.

Having started with the set that will be hardest to see, it was easy to learn there, and my smaller ones for the fold-up flap are ~very~ clean. Folding the fronts will be easy, but as the guys said, its the mounts for the front fenders that are 'queer'.

Does that help you any?

WhiteWolf
(almost willing to re-try the eye-bolts and "fling-nuts")

QUOTE: Originally posted by mr.palermo Hello all, My 1st time on this site... I am building a 1/16 Tiger 1, using the complete ABER PE set. I have been perusing erock68's site on the group build - very impressive work! I have some questions on erush's excellent PE work: - What is the best way to put the raised ribs into the exhaust pipe heat guards? - Also, the guards look like they might have been annealed to facilitate their forming into a U shape (they seem to have "burn marks")? - Anyone have a secret on how to roll hinge knuckles (leaves) smoothly (I can relate to WhiteWolf's "field repair" look above)? Thanks in advance for any advice...

First off, welcome to the forum Mr. P and welcome to the Tiger build. OK, here goes...

- After you roll the fenders, use a medium tip ball point pin and roll them in with the point letting the heat guards roll with them so you don't lose your curve. You will have to hold the pen at an angle but work from both sides and you can get them in there.

- I did heat the guards to see if it would help with rolling them. I can't say if it softend them enough to make a difference. You decide if you want to do it.

- to roll the hinges on the fenders...what I did was bend each side up with a flat about the width of the wire at the base of the hinges. Slide the two sides together, lay the wire in leaving it long so you can hold on to it. Then I just used the point of a no.11 x-acto to roll the hinges over one at a time and tuck them under. If you can find it way back in the thread, i went into more detail somewhere in there. If you have more qustions, holler!

Good luck,

Eric