Knights of the Sky WWI GB The End

ruddratt wrote:

Justin, I've seen colors used ranging from dark grey to light grey to browns to tans to pinkish greys, but I'm sure our resident expert will be along to correct me if I'm mistaken.

Greetings Mike;

Not sure who the expert is - but I'll chime in til he gets here.    The reasons that tires have been described as dark grey to light grey to browns to tans to pinkish greys are pretty basic.

AS I mentioned to Jason, early aviation tires are made of rubber and in its unaltered state is white.  Carbon was added to the rubber to harden the tire and make it last longer.  This made the tires black and expensive.  Govt contracts demanded certain perameters and during war time shortages these regulations allowed for cheaper and cheaper made products to be used.

Another determination what the type of landing strips that were at various airfields.  Cinder tracks and certain types of ground conditions could effect the colour of tires during daily use.

Pinks were the effect of red dye in the rubber.  Some manufacturers tried to create visual trademarks by adding colour to the rubber.   Mixed with some carbon these colours became muted and drab.

MrDrummy wrote:

Stephen- Can you tell me a little bit about the wheels on WWI birds?  Were they made from hard rubber?  Inflatable?  Color?  Thanks!  Happy New Year, everyone!!

Greetings Jason;

Wheels in almost all cases in early aviation were spoked.  The coverings were either fabric formed or machine tooled metal.  Tires were rubber except for factory floor or repair facilities. (they used wooden disks, to save on damaging tires)  Yes they were inflatable with tubes like bicycles.  The colour of the tires varied from manufacturer to manufacturer.  Govt. contracts specified certain criteria.  Rubber is basically white.  What makes tires black is the amount of carbon in them.  The more the carbon - the longer a tire lasted.  It was also more expensive. 

Germany ran short on import items due to the allied blockade their rubber products got pretty shabby toward the end of the war.  Especially with tires and rubber bungee shock absorber chords.  More than a few Fokker D.VII types wound up in severe crashes because these items failed on normal landings.

Here is a bit of fun to help.

Never fear the spoken wheel

Stephen-

Can you tell me a little bit about the wheels on WWI birds?  Were they made from hard rubber?  Inflatable?  Color?

Thanks!  Happy New Year, everyone!!

StephenLawson wrote:

WARNING !!! For those of you who don't like PE, - DO NOT look at this thread I am posting a link to.  It will only break your heart.

Absolutely Un-be-lievable...

Happy New Year everybody!

SirDrake

jeaton01 wrote:

Silence.  (Then sounds of a Siemens Shuckert D.IIIa failing under the weight of my foot....)

I agree there...wow.... 

*THUD!!!*

Sorry....that was me falling out of my chair.

Insanely good work!!!

Stephen-

That is almost unbelievable!  I cannot even imagine attempting something like that.  My hat's off to that gentleman!

WARNING !!! For those of you who don't like PE, - DO NOT look at this thread I am posting a link to.  It will only break your heart.

Prepare to be amazed !

Daywalker wrote:

". . .Does anyone know what color the seat should be on the DVIII?  I have read natural aluminum, covered in lozenge, black, and the RLM green used in the rest of the cockpit. When I painted the cockpit parts, I painted it RLM02, but I can change it if I need to. "

Aluminum backing with the inner face covered in lozenge.  The seat cushion was a Heineke parachute pack.  Add about .040 - .060 thou sheet plastic to the underside of the kit seat to give it depth.  Round the edge off to match the existing kit seat and add two triangular  type attachment buckles and short straps wraping over the existing seat upper face.  The harness was worn by the pilot separately and only attached to the parachute pack by riggers & fitters when he mounted the machine for patrol.  The cover of the parachute pack was probably a canvas colour.  A dirty tan, or drab earth in the Model Master line would do the trick.

Thanks Justin!

Does anyone know what color the seat should be on the DVIII?  I have read natural aluminum, covered in lozenge, black, and the RLM green used in the rest of the cockpit. When I painted the cockpit parts, I painted it RLM02, but I can change it if I need to. 

I am off for the rest of the year, woohoo!!!

I am really looking forward to (finally) making some progress on the DVIII.

mkhoot wrote:

Some nice work going on there Jeeves, John and Justin.  Count me in fir another one I'm starting the Eduard Hannover CI.IIIa. This one should be a little tougher one of Eduards early kits. White metal engine a lot of photo etch. No alignmet pins and plenty of flash.

Warning! Be sure to check the strut locator holes in the top wing.  If memory serves the cabane area definately requires special attention and or possibly relocation of one or two sockets.  Also the kit landing gear may eventually buckle due to the weight of the white metal engine.  Consider replacing it with extruded brass rod. 

mk- I put you down for the Hannover on page 1, nice to see another unusual subject.

Some nice work going on there Jeeves, John and Justin.

Count me in fir another one I'm starting the Eduard Hannover CI.IIIa.

This one should be a little tougher one of Eduards early kits. White metal engine a lot of photo etch. No alignmet pins and plenty of flash.

Thanks Stephen.  I'm definitely going to attach those little boogers on there--especially since I've got some holes to cover up!!

Here's the Albatros with rigging completed on the wings.  I'm making progress!!!

A little touchup painting around the struts, and I'm off to start the propeller and the undercarriage! 

MrDrummy wrote:

". . .I know-- I know.  There had to be an easier way.  Here was my thinking... 1.)  I didn't want to wait to decal til the last, because I like to put pressure on the decals, and I wouldn't be able to once I had the wings together.  So, I'm risking it and putting the rigging through holes in the crosses.  I can patch up the black ok, I think.  I noticed on your pictures of your Albatros that there are little doohickies on the topside of the wings where the struts are braced.  What are those? 2.) I just wasn't thinking.  Why didn't I just drill the holes next to the struts?  Silly me. Ha.  Luckily it worked out ok.  Hey, Frank!  Thanks, man.  Merry Christmas!!

Greetings  Sire ; Da doohickies are the ends of the struts and a locking nut that appear on the top surface of the upper wing only.   Check images of the real aircraft  in your references.  These are minor details but really set your piece apart from other models on a contest table. especially when a judge asks what are those for?  I believe I use Grandtline hex head nuts type 99 or 100.

Here is a Jasta 11 line up at La Brayelle in about Feb - March 1917. The red circle is highlighting  a repaired piece of wing tip fabric on Emil Schaefer's Alb. D.III.  On the first machine in this image you can see at least three of these clearly.

Here is the overall line up. 

Quoting  my good freind Dan San Abbott,  ". . .The airfield in this photo is LaBrayelle, a little west of Douai. The building in the background is a laundry. . . MvR took command of Jasta 11 on 14 January 1917. Jasta 11 moved from La Brayelle on 15 April 1917 to Roucourt Airfield. The Alb.D.III machines in this line-up are from the first production batch of Alb.D.III machines,serial numbers, D.1910/16 to 2309/16. All the machines have the central mounted radiator, which places all the machines inthe serial number range of D.1910/16 to D.2199/16. The nearest machine, has the round footstep which brackets the range to D.2099/16. This photo was taken most probably in March 1917. The order for 50 Alb.D.III machines, serial number D.600-649/17 was awarded in February 1917 and deliveries commenced in April 1917. The third order was anoth 50 Alb.D.III machines, serial numbers D.750 799/17 was awarded in March 1917 and deliveries commenced in May 1917.  With this date it precludes MvR 's Alb.D.III 789/17 from being at LaBrayelle.  Blue skies, Dan-San. . ."

StephenLawson wrote:

Wow Gunga Drummy din. . . More power to you.  I always drill my rigging pilot holes through the wing adjacent to the struts.   I always save the wing crosses / decals as a last measure to keep them from getting boogered up. Then I add any aileron actions like on the Sopwith aircraft.  Very interesting.  Merry Christmas to you too!

I know-- I know.  There had to be an easier way.  Here was my thinking...

1.)  I didn't want to wait to decal til the last, because I like to put pressure on the decals, and I wouldn't be able to once I had the wings together.  So, I'm risking it and putting the rigging through holes in the crosses.  I can patch up the black ok, I think.  I noticed on your pictures of your Albatros that there are little doohickies on the topside of the wings where the struts are braced.  What are those?

2.) I just wasn't thinking.  Why didn't I just drill the holes next to the struts?  Silly me.

Ha.  Luckily it worked out ok.

Hey, Frank!  Thanks, man.  Merry Christmas!! 

Alright--

Here's where I am so far. I've got the rigging on the port side of the Albatros done.  It took me a little while to figure out how to make it all work, since the rigging was passing through the same holes that the struts were, and they all had to be attached at once, but I think I got it worked out.  (Sorry for the pictures- it's kind of hard to see the work.)

Here's a close-up of the shot above.  You can make out all the rigging a bit better...

As you can see from the starboard side of the aircraft, my method was to simply attach the rigging in one spot,  and then pull the line through the strut holes before then attaching the strut and line to the top wing with one shot of CA.  It made for a bit of a web of rigging before hand, but once I got started, it all cleared up.  Whew.  Glad to have this under control, at least for the moment!

A shot of the top-what a beautiful bird the Albatros was...

Merry Christmas, everyone! 

I've got some progress pics to post-- will get to it later tonight!! 

Jeeves and John,

Great looking work there, fellas!  Looks like you guys have been very busy.

Here's a progress report on my Siemens Schuckert.  I put shiny colors on it, to hide my goofs.  The decals need more work around the edges, I just got the lozenge stuff on today.  I'm learning some of these WW I types have a lot of details in a small bit of real estate.  The last time I did lozenges was in 1967 on the Revell 1/28 Dr. 1.  I should have kept practicing.  I painted all of them on the Revell.