ARMOR - Panther (PzKpfw V) Group Build (any scale)

I'm convinced Shawn. I've been reading many horror stories about Aber pe. I do believe that pe grilles in most cases are a must. Beyond that, I'm not convinced. Seems like so much time is invested in them. Is it always worth the time and cost? Actually I think that was debated once in the forum.

Great work there, Derek. The details you are putting into your cat are just fabulous.

Thanks for the comps guys and gal.
Shawn is right, I will probly use PE on most builds now mostly just light gaurd etc. but I do have to try Eduard's clamps and I would like to get a fret of the Aber clamps just to try different techniques. If I found a good method they probly wouldn't be too bad.

Looking good Derek. Glad to see the Aber gremlins didn't break you.

Tigerman. Adding PE is a matter of personal preference and sometimes I feel people just add it because others do it, not because the kit needs it.

Aber produces frets with parts no sane man (this from someone drilling out DML indy links) would contemplate using. Of the Aber I have used, half of the stuff usually gets thrown in the spares box. Eduard and Royal Models are not so detail fanatic, but often they still give you parts to replace items that don't really need to be replaced ie, Ever seen a shovel with a flat square profile handle?

Then again, I have seen guys use every bit of PE only to cover it up with stowage, figures and tarps, etc. At the cost, you wonder about their priorities.

My Panther is seeing the inclusion of PE intake grills, side skirts and front Fender extensions - all items not worth the effort of scratch building. Everything else is being scratched and only because I want to leave all hatches open. The only concession to this fact is that I am also using the eduard "zoom" tool clamps. This is a small fret that only holds a number of both early and late tool clamps. Whilst not as detailed as Aber's clamps, they look as good on the kit and are waaaayyyyyy less fidely.

My progress: Will finish the scratch building of the forward compartment today (found my missing Radio and engine panel assemblies in Mr 4 year olds Lego truck. 'How did you get that?" I asked. "I got the stool and climbed up to the shelf when you were doing the washing. I needed a radio for my truck and you weren't using it because you didn't glue it in that (Panther)" was the reply. I guess this will teach me to educate him on what I'm building). LQ, I'm sure we share the same child!!!!

I hope to start painting the interior tomorrow, yahoo!! Oh, Oh. The lure of the Sherman build is getting stronger....must resist.....must finish one kit this year.......nearly there.....just a little longer.....you can do it.........

Peter: I went the eduard route on mine it was still pretty frustrating to do some of the applications of that , I have no idea about Aber ( never used that stuff ) and yes I agree that shovel is quite comical , but the spare track stowage and tool racks I think have been worth the effort . It was a fun build all in all ( very exspensive mind you ) but fun. Previous to this build was an early tiger 1 OOB and a panther A oob both came out quite nice. I think and unless you are a panther historian noone would notice the lack of scale details on tool racks etc . I think it is just a matter of preference as far as whether to use PE or not , and will I use PE for all future kits ..... probablty not , as a matter of fact my latest completions have none at all ( by completion i mean construction only ) . I do find it hard not to use metal tracks now

Whew, and to think I almost ordered the Aber clamps to give them a try. Sounds to me like I should be glad I changed my mind!

compressor gets its dose of much needed oil first thing tomorrow morning....yes, it's airbrush weekend in the mayhew household!!

congrats Nick! let 'er rip!

i have returned from my ski vacation, but did not get my sorry carcass to the bench.
but it will be a good weekend for modeling.

Derek, i can't see your embedded pics from the office, but i guess everyone else can.
perhaps they will show up when i get home.

LQ, hope you are feeling better. Panther looks great.

Spector, great work!

Dwight, bravo ! you are fast and Very Good!

Bill, keep after it! you and i will form a rear guard while the others escape to safety!
with any luck, we can hold the bridge until Smith M can rejoin us. :-)

hope to do some catching up.

thanks to all who have contributed & commented to date.
you folks are what keeps me moving!

ed.

HI ya'll. I suppose I'll throw in my 2 cents on the PE issue, I use them off and on. I did use Aber clamps, fenders on my panther and I love'em. Lets be honest the clamps are a hooker to build but they look great. Now if a fella just wanted to jazz up a kit a bit. You could buy the clamps and clasp and only use the handles of the clamps... Just bend'em and add them to the kit tools. I have seen it done and it really adds to the kit without much headache... The fenders were a must. The look awsome and are really easy to work with.

Petbat, Classic bro.... Kids are great aren't they.... My best friend has kids about that age and when he comes by with them I bolt the door shut to my shop room. Oh... wait a few years... It'll be my turn....

Nmayhew, Really looking forward to seening some paint layed down.... Good luck.

All, Well I got a surprising bit of work done last night. Finnished mudding up the wheels and painted the tracks. Also started painting the dio base. Tommarow will be a day of oil washing the new mud. Here are a couple of pics. The first is the muddy hull which is about done. It was painted with oil washes over the plaster mud. It is supposed to be wet over dry mud.

The second shows a general view. I went a little overboard on the chipping in some areas but oh well....live and learn.


Peace ya'll

Kenneth your Panther looks great, the mud looks so real are you sure you didnt stick it outside

Lizard your Dio looks great and the photos look cool

ive been able to see the photos of Rons site now i dont know what happend to it or to my PC couldnt get on there or see any pics from there but now i can

Nice mud Kenneth :)

Kenneth: very nice work on that mud ,,,, that is going to be one impressive tank , can't wait to see it done ! Looked at your web page you had there , you like to hunt huh ? How about fish ? We have some awesome landlocked salmon fishing here in the spring and fall ( I like the fall better its more like classic atlantic salmon fishing ) send me an e mail if you may be interested , flyfishing is my other major vice ! thats off topic however ! get that cat done . Hey how do you do oil wash on that mud ? I am using future here and there on mine to sim the wet mud areas ( seems to work ok ) Regarding PE parts .... I do think pe fenders have spoiled me as well , and you just have to have those PE screens , I like the machine gun mount on mine too ( bit more realistic in size and detail ) ausf D didn't have machine guns mounted to the commander hatch , but i wanted it there , looks better I think , and hell if I was in that machine I would want one there ! And I like I said before I doubt I will build a tank without fruil or MK tracks now , unless it is a yankee tank Kids : ya have to love em', my son had to point something out to me on my panther , while doing it he busted my antenna of ,,, he said " oh dad I am so sorry " , I said don't worry about it buddy , there is almost nothing you can do that I can't fix here. They often mean well and don't realize that these battle wagons are pretty fragile ( unlike the real ones !). Later all ... Shawn

Spector, The mud is a mix of plaster of paris, craft paint, herbs, glue, and a little dirt. Now this all dries to an off white color. I then mix up the proper colors of oils (I just put dabs on pallet and mix them a little at a time for some variation) Then make a wash of this color and apply it to the muddy areas. It takes some building up of color to tint it fully. I don't paint it outright because I think the thinner tinting gives it a depth that works better. For the wet areas I simpley use a little darker color. I think the trick is to get a scale mud from the beginning. I used to have the problem of just globbing on some plaster and calling it mud, but on this one I worked the plaster as it dried with different brushes. Ultimatly i used a soft stump brush to make the texture as small and in scale as I could. Also I have one other unfair advantage.... I am from the south where we love to play in the mud and are very familiar with how it looks and behaves....

Edit:

QUOTE: unless it is a yankee tank

Thats funny coming from someone that lives in maine........YANKEE!!!

Kenneth,
it is impressively realistic.
and scale!

thanks for the explanation.

ed.

Kenneth, brilliant work on the mud. That is going to be an impressive Kitty. As to kids, where would we be without 'em. Wouldn't trade mine for anything. Maybe in a few years you'll see what its like.

Shawn. The later production runs of the D did have an AA MG mounted on the cupola. It was an L shaped pole welded to the back (5 o'clock position) of a ring, that itself was welded to the cupola, and had a simple swivel mount for the MG34. The ring is actually a 'spare' item included by DML in the D kit.

LQ. Don't let me scare you off Aber altogether. Their frets have some of the finest detail I have seen. It's just that it may be better to cut your teeth on some of the other brands first. The Aber clamps are fidely, but provided your leg is better and you can crawl around to find that tweeserpulted part, they really do look as good as Derek's pics. I went Eduard for my clamps for 2 reasons, the small cost of one zoom fret and the fact that the DML kit is pretty good as it stands in regard to finess of detail. I still have a couple of Aber sets lying around for other, older kits that do lack fine detail.

Have a good weekend all.

OMG Peter : as I sit here remembering your comment about Steve Erwin ( the croc hunter ) , I look at my tv screen seeing the ultimate low ( Jerry springer ) showcase for redneck trailer trash , thinking that guy is tame compared to this ! Feel lucky my friend you are not subject to american reality TV, BLAHHHHHHHHH! can't say that enough .... BLAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Off topic I know but I feel robbed of my hours here , I want them back Ted Turner , I want them back !

Kenneth:

QUOTE: I suppose I'll throw in my 2 cents on the PE issue, I use them off and on.

I'm the same way! I put them on and they come off!! LOL

Great job on the Panther. The mud looks as fantastic as everyone says. What colors did you use on it? (Kind of hard to tell on this monitor.) The upper part of the tank looks terrific, too. Congrats on a super build.

Bill

wipw,

QUOTE: What colors did you use on it?

Which part....mud or paint (camo)??

Mud.

...Sorry. Brain frazeled today...can't coherent thought...short circuit...bzzzt....pop...Danger, Will Robinson...bzzzt...crackle...Houston, We have a problem....pfffft...zap...crunch...For the next 30 minutes, we will control your television...zing

Ain't no thang.... I used Burn Umber, White and Gold Ochre (from the cheap A$$ walmart range) No windsor newton here man..... Like I say. I don't mix specific colors... I just mix it all together on a pallet with some thinner so that its random. The trick is to keep the paint real thin. Don't try to "paint it" so to speak. Just tint the plaster until its mud colored... Make sense...??? With the texture it has it soaks paint up like a sponge. Just let it dry between washes because the paint shades change somewhat the more it soaks in and dries...

...friday night here in london...
...girlfriend out on the town with her friends from work...
...i'm at home:- just me, my iwata and my kitty...
...and houston, we have camo!!!

Whoah.... bad mental picture............git ........outa ....here .......go!!! OK now.............
Cool what pattern are you going for....??? Good luck whatever....

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kennethc Spector, Also I have one other unfair advantage.... I am from the south where we love to play in the mud and are very familiar with how it looks and behaves....

I remember having to explain to my friend what the "Miss Swamp Queen" award was all about hehehehe

(I miss living in florida)

Kenneth:

I think the simulated mud you have there is very authentic. Really realistic. Nice job!

Shawn, fine job on the tracks, thumbs up.

Kenneth, what can I say about the mud that others haven't? Awesome

I have a feeling I may run a week over on the build, just don't think I'm going to finish. I'm bad.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kennethc Whoah.... bad mental picture............git ........outa ....here .......go!!! OK now............. Cool what pattern are you going for....??? Good luck whatever....

Kennethc i managed to do somethiing similar to the scheme for red #135 of the tamiya early g...hope to paint all the details tomorrow and future it before a wash on sunday, but maybe that's pushing it...think i'm also going to have a srab at adding mud to my armour for the first time after seeing all the good results here in this build!!

regards,
nick

QUOTE: Originally posted by petbat LQ. Don't let me scare you off Aber altogether. Their frets have some of the finest detail I have seen. It's just that it may be better to cut your teeth on some of the other brands first. The Aber clamps are fidely, but provided your leg is better and you can crawl around to find that tweeserpulted part, they really do look as good as Derek's pics. I went Eduard for my clamps for 2 reasons, the small cost of one zoom fret and the fact that the DML kit is pretty good as it stands in regard to finess of detail. I still have a couple of Aber sets lying around for other, older kits that do lack fine detail.

Well i may still have to try some out one day then. I do like a challenge most of the time, thats whats great about this hooby right.

There have been a few that have joined the build late , so I think a late end will be just fine , just take your time and post pics , if not here in the armour forum Muzzleflash: We have swamp donkeys up here too ! We call them last call women !

QUOTE: Originally posted by spector822002 There have been a few that have joined the build late , so I think a late end will be just fine , just take your time and post pics , if not here in the armour forum Muzzleflash: We have swamp donkeys up here too ! We call them last call women !

[:0]

All,
got my markings on.
i chickened out of painting them as i felt that the Zim texture would encourage paint
to get under stencil/masks.
i used the kit decals and they set down nicely.
i did 'take the liberty' of cutting up the red 135 decal to convert it to a red 51.
i have no clue of the accuracy of the number/unit/what-have-you.
i just wanted a different number than was in any of the choices.
no real significance to the number.
but i wore it proudly as a member of the 'bench bunch' on my HS football team
20 years ago. :-)

got the tools painted and added on, and then shot what i hope will be a 'satin' coat
of Future and Tamiya flat base in preparation for tomorrows 'filter festivities'.

i need some advice from anyone w/ indy link experience.
my plan is to get the wheels on the tank after i am done filtering & washing.
THEN building my runs of links once the wheels are on the tank.

sound ok?

thanks,
ed.