Battle of Britain GB 2008 - 21 June to 31 Oct 08

Hi Lufty -- we can't get Future in Aus. There's a rumour I heard at the LHS that a hardware chain as brought some in, so I checked the biggest local outfit. No luck, but they do have a water-based acrylic clear in flat, satin and gloss finishes that I've been thinking about giving a go. If it'll thin with water or any of the proprietory thinners, it might be a good alternative to the ellusive Future. They also had isopropyl alcohol but either the fluid (or the bottle) were bright green. If it's dyed in this country that makes it unattractive as a thinner as it'll have a tinting effect.

I'm not mega-impressed with the Testors Clear Parts Cement. I attached the gunsight, then went on to do the windshield. The windshield has fixed solidly but the next time I saw the gunsight it was in the bottom of the cockpit. Hmmm...

What's the story on the three supports inside the rear section of the 109's canopy? Photos seem to show them as mounted internally to a curved clear panel, artwork generally shows them as external struts, and the Eduard mask set has parts to depict them externally. I'm confoozled...

Cheers,

Mike

bobbaily wrote:

Hey all-I'm making progress on the 109 & have decided to do Wick's plane, sponge camo and all.  However, I do have a basic 109E question-does the seam from the cockpit back show?  The only reference that I can dig out is a cut away drawing and it shows the seam.  If not, looks like I'll be filling & sanding tonight followed by a quick 'touch-up' job....... thanks all. edit-Never mind.  I had a few minutes at lunch to research on the web and found photos of existing 109's that show no seam on the upper surface. I misread the Tamiya paint guide and thought the radio wire was a seam.  . Therefore, it's time to breakout the Squadron putty, nail polish remove and some masking tape and fix the problem.  Hopefully I will be able to fill, sand and repaint by the end of the weekend.  The plane had been Future'd, so I should be able to progress with decaling and maybe applying the first coat of sponge camo.  Or not.  Oh bother...... Cheers

Bob, there was a seam along the top, it probably didn't show up well in the photos you dug up.  The 109 fuselage from aft of the cockpit was constructed of concentric halves so you had a seam on the bottom as well as the top, like so:

Thanks Guy-and thanks for the link.  Will bookmark that one.

It's not too late-still at work, just mentally getting prepared to do damage control.  Correcting a bottom seam would be a lot easier than correcting the top AFTER the camo has been applied.

Karl, I cant believe the airbrushers didnt like the idea of practising on paper. I suppose theyre all so talented that they spray straight on to the model and get it right every time.

Thunderbolt, make sure that you dip all the clear canopy parts in future 1st. Good luck, you wont need it, its a cake walk.

...Guy

Bob, my refs say that there was a seam on the top and nothing on the bottom. Hope its not too late.

Check out the 4th foto down.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1997/07/stuff_eng_detail_bf109e.htm

...Guy

Hey all-I'm making progress on the 109 & have decided to do Wick's plane, sponge camo and all.  However, I do have a basic 109E question-does the seam from the cockpit back show?  The only reference that I can dig out is a cut away drawing and it shows the seam.  If not, looks like I'll be filling & sanding tonight followed by a quick 'touch-up' job.......

thanks all.

edit-Never mind.  I had a few minutes at lunch to research on the web and found photos of existing 109's that show no seam on the upper surface. I misread the Tamiya paint guide and thought the radio wire was a seam.  . Therefore, it's time to breakout the Squadron putty, nail polish remove and some masking tape and fix the problem.  Hopefully I will be able to fill, sand and repaint by the end of the weekend.  The plane had been Future'd, so I should be able to progress with decaling and maybe applying the first coat of sponge camo.  Or not.  Oh bother......

Cheers

Hi Darren.

Thanks for the tip -- will do! Right, I'd better paint the gunsight on the sprue, then give the Clear Parts Cement a whirl!

Cheers,

Mike

Thunderbolt379 wrote:

I think I'll keep it simple, go with a closed canopy and get into the painting as quick as I can now. The masks look deceptively simply -- pry up a carner with a sharp blade, peel off and position with tweezers? Cheers, Mike

Mike when applying canopy masks use the pointy end of a tooth pick to tamp down the all the edges of each masking piece to stop any paint from seeping under.

Cheers

Hi all,

Canopy masks have arrived -- Squadron deliver while the others are thinking about it!

I think I'll keep it simple, go with a closed canopy and get into the painting as quick as I can now. The masks look deceptively simply -- pry up a carner with a sharp blade, peel off and position with tweezers?

I'll need to do the Dornier on trial and error to see what fits and what doesn't.

Cheers,

Mike

Dave, great job on the 109, from the motteling and the yellow nose its all good and comming along very nicely.

Steve

Luftwoller wrote:

As for airbrushing, the key is practise, practise, practise. On a sheet of A4.

I suggested this a while back on the AB forum and got b*ll*cked for it. 

I find practising on a sheet of A4 really useful, obviously I'm not alone.

Dave, great job on the mottle.

As for the U-boat, I have always fancied Revell's 1/144 Type XXI, bit late for the BoB, and seeing as it has just been re-released I thought I'd have a go at a floaty, or shoud that be a sinky subject.

Boat itself is built, but is too big, about 21 inches, to paint comfortably at my desk, so that will have to wait till the weekend.

Would a Type VIIC U-boat be OK for this GB?

Karl

Did i hear mention of a U boat? This GB gets more interesting by the day.

As for airbrushing, the key is practise, practise, practise. On a sheet of A4. A lot of modellers like to spray at higher pressures others at quite low pressures. I persaonally spray almost everything at around 18PSi with reasonable results. Draw a ruff pic of plane and mottle the pic. Keep going to youve sussed it.

...Guy

Hi Darren -- I checked out the RedRoo site and boy, have they ever got some good products there! I especially like thier grab-handle maker -- if only I could see how it's to be used!

Can you colour EZ-Line with acrylics after it's on???

I think I'd better load up some acrylics and do some experimental spraying, it must be my technique that's off. The AB is supposed to perform to this standard but I've never managed to get it there. Thanks for the tips -- if I can find the thinner/pressure ratio to produce fine, clean spots and lines, I'll be home and hosed!

Cheers,

Mike

Dave, the Emiil is looking better all the time.  Nice work on the yellow.

Regards,  Rick

Dave you're sooo right, those yellow nosed 109s really do look cool and yours is turning out excellent btw.

Mike thanks for the kind words. The kit is the Tamiya Fw 190A-8 backdated to A-7 config and the decals I am pretty sure came from Aeromaster. The antenna wire is made from a product called EZ-Line which I picked up from Red Roo Models, its fantastic stuff and is very easy to work with.

Also, the splatter effect is down to using to high an air pressure on your compressor. You can get the dry dot splatter which means too many PSI and not enough thinner or you can get the wet splatter which just means too much air pressure.

What you are aiming for is a very soft even light spray pattern with minimal or no overspray at all. Last piece of useless advice, always mix your paint and thinner outside of the AB and apply the mixture to the paint cup. This will ensure you have a consistent spraying session and not one where the paint starts very dry and ends up like water as you chase the right mixture by adding thinner directing into the paint cup.

Cheers

Darren -- thanks for the tips, that's not a million miles from the technique I've tried previously, though with less thinner. Maybe I just need to practice more, on card, work on spots and stripes and try to overcome the spatter effect. That's a BEAUTIFUL 190 -- what kit and what decals??? the mottle is subtle and very effective. BTW, what did you use for the antenna wire?

Mike

Thanks Darren, it went well actually.  I did give it a primer coat on the unpainted surfaces first so I'm sure that helped.  Cowling and ruder are not attached yet.  Man I love these yellow nosed Me 109's!!!   I have no idea why it took me so long to build one

It's coming along very nicely and I hope to get it finished this weekend. 

Dave good luck with spraying the yellow, I hope it goes/went well.  I don't know why but yellow for me has to be the worst color I ever try and paint.  I found I never got good coverage or depth until I started laying down a primer of light grey or white.

Mike (TB) I have used Tamiya and Gunze acrylics for mottling and I usually go for well thinned as apposed to super thinned and I drop the air pressure down to as low as it will go in order to give me the most control over what I'm doing.  This Fw 190 was painted free hand and I ended up re-spraying the mottling three times before I was happy with the result. 

Also don't forget to practice on a piece of paper before you commit paint to your model.

Cheers

Hi Dave --

That's most interesting. The H is a single-action, internal-mix type? I used to have a single/internal Badger 200, that was my first AB. The VL is dual-action/internal, which is supposed to give you more control options but initially I found it overcomplicated compared to the Badger.

I've been working with Tamiya acrylics and have not had a terribly good experience. My experiments were along the lines of super-thinning and varying the pressure, which is almost the opposite of your approach. I'll try minimal thinning and much higher pressure and do a test-shoot on card. If I can get enough control there's a Tiger tank been waiting for her camo overspray for ages -- I painted her up months ago but got too heavy a result and recently resprayed her to dark yellow.

Conversely, enamels seem to offer better control with less of a fight. The chemically 'hotter' paint seems to agree with the mechanics of the AB. I'm not game to try feehanding just yet, but I'm sure I will eventually... Maybe in 1:24 for the coward's way out! I've been intending to do a 109 E4/7 in North Africa markings, and have been thinking of doing the wing mottle through a pre-cut softmask, every olive patch cut from a single wing-sized masking card. It'll be an interesting experience...

Now, gotta spray some teensy bits of decal film for the internal canopy bars on the Emil, and start masking the landing gear bays...

Cheers,

Mike

Hi razor -- I envy you your taming of the AB! I use a Paasche VL and I've never achieved the subtlety and fineness to really contemplate mottle. I did mottle on a Fw 190 in 1:72 many years ago but it was coarse by comparison. I'm leaning toward soft-masking even in 1:48! That's why the BoB-era scheme is so attractive, it's all hard-masked!

Mike/TB379

KJ200 wrote:

...Now back to the U-boat.

U-boat?   Oooo... do tell us what your up to!!! 

Not so fast Lufty.

My Hurricane is complete and ready to join SC's in smiting the aryan horde.

I'll post some pics at the weekend, at which point my contributrion to the aryan horde will also be complete, but we won't mention that.

Dave, nice job on the Emil.

Andrew, which kit of the 110 are you building? Looks great what ever it is.

SC, have you noticed that there are no shell case ejector ports under the Hurricane's wings? I ended up using the ones on my Hasa Hurri as a template, and masking and painting them on.

Now back to the U-boat.

Karl

Andrew, thats a sweet 110. Upgun the defense and youll have those Hurricanes for Bratvurst Ya!!!

Bondoman, Do you mean Euromillitaire? Here in Blighty?

Razordws, Very nice work on the 109. If i hadnt of read it was 1/72, I wouldnt have had a clue.

Great work everyone, not long before we invade.

...Guy

Thanks Mike and Rick.

Mike the mottle is freehand.  I use a paasche H and have developed a technique for doing the mottle that seems to work for that particular airbrush. 

Looking good Dave.  Nice little Emil.

Regards,  Rick

Nice, razor! Tami 1:72, right? Fine mottle -- did you spray freehand or through a mask?

TB

Another Emil on the way.   I hope to paint the yellow and the rlm 02 mottle tomorrow and then it will be on to decals.  Bring on the hurricanes!

I'm enjoying everyones progress.  Keep it coming guys!

Hi all,

Teensy bit of progress today -- I attached the engine cowling and leading edge slats to the Emil, and sortied to my LHS to pick up some RLM 71. The canopy masks will be in the mail any day now and the clear parts cement has arrived, so I can do the clear gunsight part plus the three bars on the rear canopy section to be painted from the inside (probably with painted decal film).

Should the interior of the canopy framing be RLM 02??? I'm hoping to do the canopy open, is this grounds for actually painting the interior instead of double coating from the outside?

Cheers,

Mike/TB379