doog,

That is really sweet!  I really admire your courage (and credit HvH for the inspiration) to tackle that interior - although I think you coulda got away with a recliner, widescreen, and bowl o' pretzels...

Looking very good so far! Love the scratchbuilding!  As for the seat, save it for another project, as I highly doubt you can even see it, without the use of hightech spy-equipment

One thing however...

the doog wrote:

In 1944 all remaining Pz III's were ordered to be converted to Bergepanzers.

You sure about that? I doubt all Panzer III's were converted... And I don't mean that as in 3 were left original.  But here in Norway, even Panzer I tanks were left with their original MG turret till the end of the war. As I've said numerous times, Norway isn't suited for tank warfare (Todays Norwegian Royal Army got just 10 Leopards, other than that, some IFV's) and the only German tankdivision that was stationed here was the Z.B.V. 40. There were another one, but they left summer of '42.

So I'm asking, hence the Z.B.V.40 left even Panzer I's alone troughout the war, were all Panzer III's converted?  Or did these tanks in Norway get some kind of exeption?

Looking forward for more!!

-Lasse

Thanks, guys!

Manny-- I think I'll just go with the resin pieces--I actually like the grain on the parts. Plus, oneof them has some kind of wire/rope on it that has a certain look I like.

Thanks, too, Jim and Boyd!

Bill--they DO have soe nice stuff, huh? I am tempted by some of their other offerings as well! Thanks for stopping in! 

Huxy--Bill is correct; of course, there would be some Pz III's left "as is"--in fact, probably a mojority of them---but the order was given--not necessarily carried out in full.Thanks, Bill, for your input!

Well, I've laid down some paint inside--black, then neutral gray for an undercoat.

Then white in the panels and from the right, "top down" angle.

I tried to think of the natural light diminishing in appropriate places,and painted accordingly, eathering it to black toward the front of the hull. Honestly, most of this you'll probablynever see...

I'll be finishing the weathering tonight, I'm sure. And adding some things like fire extingusher, and yes, the seat will stay.

Stay tuned for more!

Great looking conversion project so far, doog, gotta love the scratch interior! Dang these small companies that produce conversion and aftermarket parts seem to spring up like weeds, never heard of NeoGrade.

Outstanding idea, even if I do say so m'self, Doog.. I love the sound of scribing & snapping styrene in the mornin'... Looking forward to this one..

      Karl nice to see some more of the work horse panzers getting built. I've got the Bergtiger E that I plan on doing soon.

   The interior really is well done its to bad so much will be hidden. Looking forward to seeing what you have in store for us in terms of cammo.

  Don't know how some of you guys can work so fast. 

Karl,  Inspirational stuff !!  Just Great !!

I have seen some NeoGrade stuff on e-bay, notably their IV Lang and Ferdinand 1/16 kits.  But, at $500 + its a bit out of my league.

Thanks guys, to all who have taken the time to comment, and who are following this build!

I worked on some of the weathering for the interior last night--I think I'll call this "done" and start working on the outside. Weathered with MIG oils--not much really; a lot of it was a result of the painting helping portray the look you see here.

Thanks again for looking in guys!!! 

That is very, very nice!

Hope this model is a gift to me for letting you get to this magnificent country to play?

Hi, Karl, the build looks great so far. Nice bit of scratching. Should have saved quite a few bucks there.

Terry.

For a scratchbuilt "quickie" job that thing looks amazing!  I am grabbing the popcorn and getting ready for this one.....

Brian

Thanks again, guys!

Huxy---ha ha, sure bud....NOT! lol! I appreciate the thought though....I think?!

Terry, thanks sincerely for the nice comments yet again!

Andy---ha ha, you crack me up! It's funny; that's the same thing I think about you when I see your 1/72 diorama over there in Dio's! Excellent work!!

David--YES!!! BRRRAAAAP!!! I really do want to get out there! I'll be looking for somewhere to rise for sure! Thanks for the kind words!

Brian, thanks for looking in and taking the time to comment!

Awe scratchbuilding and painting Doog.  I can imagine how the rest will turn out. Looking forward to seeing this model progress into another masterpiece.

Rob

Hans von Hammer wrote:

So is this one a display model or are ya gonna "put it to work" in a dio?

Very nice work, Karl.  Your modest "I threw this together" belies the talent you posess.  Really, the building, and amazing painting of an area that a careful veiwer MIGHT get a decent look at, is a testament to your dedication and amazing ability.  Thank you for constantly being in sharing mode.

Really intersting subject, too.

Bill

  Good!

Rather see 'ya building a nasty 'ol tank than a "Stooka".

(Oh what the heck, it's good to see you build anything!) Such astuteness. Looks like another great workout here doog.

Thanks Bill and Steve! Glad you guys are enjoying this build!

Well, I had a busy week, but I'm plugging away here. I have assembled much of the hull--there's no turret to speak of, of course. Did some mods here and corrections....I had a weird problem with the molding on the muffler, but fixed the flange here with some sprue. Sharp-eyed readers will also notice that I deliberately put the towing pintle on at an incorrect 90' angle, just to sharpen my corrective skills and provide a little more "interest"to the build.... (Yup, had topry this off and correct it later! )

Unfortunately, (as a cost-cutting measure I'm sure) the instructions have you cut off the light bases, which leaves a horendous mar on the fenders. Ah, hell--I probably could have gotten PE fenders for it, but for now, I'll just put ye ol' venerable "Oily Rag" over the scar; this IS an engineer's vehicle, after all...

I deceided to try something different here with the lights. Figuring that maybe a tow at night would have needed more light, and the lights maybe having been uncorked, I decided to try to fill in thelights to make them look a litttle more realsitic. I bored them out with a Dremel tool..

....painted the interior Chrome Silver...

...and hit each one with a drop of epoxy.

Not a bad effort? You have to make sure that you sand away all the molded-on details if you do this--the real light "cans" were featureless, smooth, round-ish half-cups.

I had to reinforce the bottom of the box, becasue the resin molding was so thin between the boards that the boards actually started to sag from being "loose" on one end.

A bummer--one of the inner box's walls were too short--it wouldn't match up flush with the outer wall. You would be able to see the perimeter of the "toilet hole" going to the hull there under the box once assembled, so I had to lengthen it with strip. I also took the liberty of engraving "woodgrain" into the strip as well, to match it. I also had to add verious ittle spacers and whatnot to get it all to look sano.

Once assmebled, you can see that it's passable...I can always occlude this area with addeed junk inside anyway.

The box so far. I'm thinking that I might leave the box unglued, and paint it separately from the hull? Have to see how that will figure when the crane is assembled?

Sadly, you can't see inside the hole, really!

That's it so far! I don't know if I'll get much done today-it's the first day that it's above 80 degrees here and I'm going BRAPPING!!!!! 

bbrrrrRRAAAAAAAAPPPPP!!!!

Hey Karl, looking good.

I am curious what epoxy you used for the headlight.  My next armor build will probably be the 1/35 Abrams I bought, and it comes with 2 figures that I was thinking of trying to make lenses for the goggles for.  I think boring the goggles out a little and adding some epoxy might be just the ticket.....

Brian

Looking good so far Karl. Really like the lenses. Pitty about the interior visiblity, but then again theres the bonus of getting practice at a bit of scratchbuilding.

Terry.

Hey Guys---well, it's been a long road to this point. Thanks for the comments, and I'm sorry for not acknowledging them sooner; I've really been just lax from being stressed out and under pressure with all that's been happening here.

Brian, I just used regular 5-minute epoxy from a hardware store; nothing fancy!

Well, here's an update. I'm about ready for paint.

First, for those really considering this kit--there are a couple stupid mistakes that I made which you shouldn't--first, DO NOT install the spaced armor on the front hull--the box will not fit properly with it on.

2. DO NOT install the armored guards (?) over the engine screens--the crane will not fit with them installed.

I had a hell of a time figuring out the parts placement--more how to space and align the crane parts--the darned side brackets are so tight that they really almost make the placement of the crane jib impossible--anyway, I finally got it figured out. Here's a progress report so far....

Most of these vehicles are seen either with regular tracks, or "Ostketten"--which are shorter than "Winteretten". However, since theonly kit of Ostketten tracks I could find were in the $40.00 range, and resin (you know how I hate resin tracks!) I decided to use the last set of winterketten tracks that I had. There is photographic evidence--TA DA!!! What's more, is that this photo also shows that some vehicle were modified beyond "normal"--there looks to be some sort of shield or special armor--even perhaps a top and a hatch?--fitted to this vehicle?

This "customization freedom" will play into my build-philosophy for this kit!

First of all--the winterketten tracks, I was disappointed to find that this set--I believe that I 'lifted" this set from the StuG IIIF kit--are completely unusable in their present state! I mean--look at the height of the dual knockout marks on this link! 

I do have to say that the separate, actual "kit" of later-released Winterketten tracks, which I used on my late Brummbar and which come in a darker gray plastic color--were not as egregiously scarred. 

After painstakingly using a flat Exacto blade to shear off each little stub, and then filing smooth the remainder, (two night's work!) I started out by assembling the tracks, as per my "doog method"--leaving off the outer return rollers, and assembling the tracks on masking tape. The winterketten are "handed" so I did two rows. Here's the link to my tracks tutorial, for anyone curious: http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=1737

I also added some reinforcing strips to the bottom of the box--the box should not sit flush on the hull, and this is one omission of the NeoGrade kit.

I also built a storage rack for the crane jigs, and built an extra crane jig. You also have to eliminate the radio antennae mount and channel--that little square of plastic is to replace where the mount would have been.

And as part of my "customization", I decided that a late-war Bergepanzer might need a bit of extra firepower (at least I would have wanted some in mine!?) so I built up this pedestal-mounted MG to put in the bed. The parts came from spare parts from the "Shwebelafette" halftrack that I finished recently.

So here's what it looks like so far. The box, MG, and all the rest of the chains and tackles are not fitted yet. I'm going to paint them all separately, and put them together...

I also made a ladder for the entry hatch, and also had to lengthen the longer crane brace because it didn't reach the other mount. 

I went kinda easy on the sag--I figured that the engineers would keep it pretty tight?

I added a pair of spare track racks and you can see the other dark-plastic winterketten links there.

So that's where I am so far. I'm going to be trying a new painting approach on this one. I'm not sure how it will work out, but it will be interesting at least. That resin "wood" will also demand a bit of innovation. I just hope that, given the crazy schedule I'm under here with teh band, that I'l be able to get it going soon?

Comments, suggestions, critiques and anything else much appreciated and welcomed!

WOW! You have been busy- two nights on track clean up?! I don't know if I coulda done it...

I really like the custom work- that pedestal MG makes perfect sense to me. That thing needs SOME kinda firepower

Looking SWEET Karl!!

But that MG seems to be pretty much in the way in the box? I would have placed it closer to the walls...

And I love Ostkettens!!

Looking nice, Karl.  I can't wait to see some paint on it.  I may propose to marry it if I am quick enough on the draw.

Bill  

Huxy wrote:

Looking SWEET Karl!! But that MG seems to be pretty much in the way in the box? I would have placed it closer to the walls... And I love Ostkettens!!

Lasse, the thinking was, the crewman would have to be able to get around the gun and pivit it 360' to counter any threat. Wouldn't be much goood if it were only able to shoot it to the front, or left side only for instance? I tried it closer to the edges and it reallly felt weird. It felt poorly planned to be unable to get around one side of it.

In a vehicle like this, the box ws only really a traveling and storage area. Most of the working would be done "outside the box" lol. And if you look at that photo, the "lid" on top of the box wasn't exactly practical either, but told me that the crew was thinking "protection" more so than "comfort".

Thanks, Chris, tigerman, Bill and Tony, too! Bill, you may have to fight Manny, lol!

Lasse, the thinking was, the crewman would have to be able to get around the gun and pivit it 360' to counter any threat. Wouldn't be much goood if it were only able to shoot it to the front, or left side only for instance? I tried it closer to the edges and it reallly felt weird. It felt poorly planned to be unable to get around one side of it. In a vehicle like this, the box ws only really a traveling and storage area. Most of the working would be done "outside the box" lol. And if you look at that photo, the "lid" on top of the box wasn't exactly practical either, but told me that the crew was thinking "protection" more so than "comfort".

MMM... I see..   tought more work would be done "inside the box"..  In my recent book about the Panther, it shows defensive armaments aswell, but that is all the way in the front, and the driver and hull MG guys.. But that tank is fairly different from the Panzer III, however!

Thanks for explaining!

Very nice Karl.

Always good to see something a bit different, look forward to seeing how you finish it.

Mark

    This is turning out to be one cool little project Karl.

 So I take it since it has the ostketten tracks we may be in for some type of winter cammo?

  At first I thought the same thing as Huxy about the MG but then I figured that the crew would have made this so the pole could have been lifted out of the base if more room was needed and stored.   

Thanks, guys--I'm just about outta here for the day, but I wanted to chime in one time before I leave for the day...

Thanks, Bill, and Mark--it's certainly crazy around here lately, with trying to get a recording finished before we leave in June, and then rehearsing for the upcoming tour. Trying to keep the bike maintained, and then having time or Jenn. I'm running ragged lately.... HopefullyI'll be able to make a good dent on finishing this before I leave?

Steve--no winter camo on this; well, maybe a little bit o' remnants? Basically I think these vehicles were outfitted with  the wider tracks for better mobility, so it's plausible that they would be seen with them year round. I'm gong to try a mulit-layered approach to painting. If it works out the way I want it to, it should be pretty cool!

Great observation on the MG post coming out of the base! That's a perfect idea that, to be honest, I didn't even think of, but why not? It certainly would make sense?! Thanks for that idea! I won't model it any differently, but it gives a great point to justify it! 

Karl,

Be careful in not confusing "Winterketten" with "Ostketten". The "winterketten" were designed to provide better traction in ice/snow as well as better general flotation on frozen ground but were generally not fitted year round. The "Ostketten" on the other hand were designed primarily to act like the Tiger tracks and lessen the ground pressure of the vehicle in muddy/soft ground conditions and so were wider as a rule without the scoop-like extensions you see on the "winterketten". The "remnants" idea should give the best of both worlds in regards to a winter finish IMHO since you've got this one fitted with the "Winterketten".

First off, I think you need to be commended for doing allllll of that intricate scratch work on the interior...only to have a 1/2" x 1/2" hole in the floor show it off. Now that's dedication.

The rest of the build is pretty darn neat too, but that interior is killing me. Nice stuff, Doog.

Karl I just saw this today it looks fantastic, cannot wait to see it finished. I don't see how you get everything done being so busy. Keep up the excellent work all around. I will be looking forward to the finished build.

Bushi

    Wow, I can't find the time to keep current on the ongoing builds here in Armor!  And I'm not even a rock star rehearsing for an album and tour; I don't have a motocross to maintain, and I'm married and everyone knows that a wife is easier to maintain than a girlfriend .  (if she reads this, I'm )

 Really nice work here Doog.  I like the scratched interior and the paint work is superb.  There will always be some challenges to surmount on anything that you choose to build but it is evident that you've overcome the difficulties. This will be really nice with some paint. 

 Don

Thanks, guys--I managed to get home a little earlier than I thought, so I've started the base coat and preshading.

Bill, thanks for that info. I kinda knew that already, but I figured if it was good for that vehicle in the photo, then it would be ok for the model to wear. In any case, it's great stuff fro anyone who's following this build. I will give a very old, slight "remnant" of a whitewash scheme. The hairspray technique will be used here, of course. I got something else planned too though, in terms of HOW I'm going to paint it...

Thanks too, Andy, and dupes -- yeah, I'm kinda sick about the interior being so hidden, but what can ya do? File it under the category of "I know it's in there"!

Thanks too, Bushi, and Don! I appreciate all you guys taking the time to comment here!

Karl - OK.....I take a couple of days off and you burp out a new WIP and now you are moving in my direction....the strange and different.

Nice build so far. Building the "different" is always a learning experience.

Rounds Complete!!

Thanks, Mike and Tony! I appreciate your comments! I'm working away here....

I've started the painting process--it's going to be a long process with all the steps I'm planning.

I'm about halfway finished right now with just the painting. 

First, I painted the box and wood parts in Tamiya Neutral Gray...

Then I sealed it with dullcoat, and hit it with hair spray. Letting it dry for an hour, I hit it next with a coat of a dark Dark Yellow mix, into which I added Black and Earth color. I then attacked it with a short-bristled brush, to get this;

What I'm going for is a look where the "box" was built from comandeered old wood--like from a Russian farmhouse or shed--and it's that old, weathered grey look to it. I'm going to finish it as if the crew had some old paint to throw at it, but nothing too complete--it will be somewhat painted outside, but not in the interior, which will be beat-up and weathered wood.

I then sealed and sprayed it again, and then hit it with a lighter shade of Buff, which was then rubbed off in a similar manner...

One more round went down,where I hit it with a little more DY. I'm still not done with it, but that's where I am now...

The hull was painted first with a dark brown, then the dark DY coat;

...and progressively lightened in the inner panels....

and a wash of acrylic DY was laid on it to give it some variety in tint from the box....

]

The wheels and box and wood rails...

I still will be adding a beat-up camo scheme, and remnants of a whitewash coat....stay tuned!

Any comments or ideas welcomed!

This is looking great Doog, I  really like the wooden box, those planks looks very real. I'll have to try your method when I get back to my Sd.Ah 116. This has been a fun build to folow, and you bet I'll stick around to see this baby finished.

Rob

Hi, Karl, looking good so far. I think I have some photos of these berge's from panzer wrecks, must look it up for you. I personally don't quite know what to make of the vehicle myself as I don't know too much about the subject. I'm looking forward to seeing what your going to make of it.

I'm in work at the moment, will check back at the weekend.

Terry.

Thanks, Rob, and terry!

I managed to get a camo coat on it, but don't have time to post it now--I'll have more photos later. I have to seal it now and then spray it, and add a whitewash coat later.

Man, I've never used so much damned sealant and hair spray! lol!

Thanks for looking in and commenting, guys!

Karl,

I like the wood effects you've achieved, very nice! Just remember though from a historical accuracy perspective that these vehicles weren't "ad hoc" arrangements, they were factory-done conversions including the addition of the wooden box so you wouldn't have had the "old Russian lumber" situation occur. Normally the wood box was painted and integrated right into the camo pattern given the fact that these were recovery vehicles and so would be used frequently at the front edges of combat. The two pics below are from the Trojca Pz III book and are posted for discussion purposes only to illustrate my point.

That doesn't take away from the very nice aged wood effect that you've achieved though!

The second pic is a double bonus...not only a Berge III but one also outfitted with Ostketten.

Karl - Nice job on the wood, love the worn effect. Vehicle looking good woth fading.

Rounds Complete!!

Cool paint job Doog I like how you did the dark coulor first and than whent over it with the light coulor.

Manny you got to remember the during WWII pressure treated wood didn't exsist so you would get some wierd swelling of the wood which will really show the grain whenever moisture got onto the wood. So since the wood decking is exposed to the elements that would be a reasonable explanation of why the Neograde representation looks so heavy handed.

New Hampshire wrote:

Hey Karl, looking good. I am curious what epoxy you used for the headlight.  My next armor build will probably be the 1/35 Abrams I bought, and it comes with 2 figures that I was thinking of trying to make lenses for the goggles for.  I think boring the goggles out a little and adding some epoxy might be just the ticket..... Brian

Use clear acetate for the goggles Brian it is thin enough to allow you to glue it to the back of the goggles and cut it to shape while in place and you can leave it clear or tint it clear green or clear yellow as the actual lenses came in clear green and amber colors.

Once again, thanks, guys, for the continued support and attention in this thread!

I managed to get some more painting done this morning--I didn't get sny photos of the camo--t's green line--but you can see it under the remnants of the whitewash here. I also have decided with Bill's advice that the box needed more DY base coat, so I sprayed a somewhat thin coat of DY (lightened of course) and weathered it a bit, scraping some of it off before applying the camo. I also scraped away some of the camo coat, making it loook old too. The green is Tamiya Field Gray.

Here's the base of the whitewash--I only wanted to leave it where the crew would have been lax in removing it--edges, mostly, and depressions in the hull.

Of course, this was done over yet another coat of hairspray, and so then the stiff brush was used to scrub away most of it.

And here's some detail shots of what I have so far...

I think that this will give me a good base from which to start weathering. I'll post up some photos as I go here...any comments on the whitewash welcomed!?

Hey Karl I would say the whitewash is believable,looks good from here.

Tony the Mutt

Looking great. I think the camo and white wash are right on target.

Rob

Doog,

As always you continue to astound and this will be another great watch and tutorial.

As for the "hole" in the floor and what is going on underneath I'll picture Fräuleins and Soldiers "gettin jiggy with it".

IBuild1/48

Karl - Very nice on the winter camo remnents. It looks quite good and will blend in nicely after weathering. I'm sure the smell of the hair spray always bring back memories for you

Sounds like you are burning the candle at both ends.....just be careful you don't melt all your "wax"

Rounds Complete!!

The paint looks great Doog. This is one cool piece of machinery for sure. Just wait, Dragon will have one out in a few months.

Erik

Outstanding doog.  Your usual high quality is still there my friend.

If oyu look at the horse drawn gun in my Club meeting score! post... that is in the background.  I was looking at the box top saying thatit look somehow familiar.

cthulhu77 wrote:

very fascinating build, love the approach to the weathering.

Wow, Karl, another amazing build.  I like the wood and beat up last year's whitewash.  Very cool, I can't wait to see you continue to beat her up. 

Unusual and cool, very well executed.

Bill 

Thanks, Tony, Tony, and Rob!

Ibuild48--that's a good idea--I'll have to have Manny send me over some of his Russian chicks to "party" with Hans and Franz! lol! Thanks for commenting!

Bill--thanks, man! Sharp eyes there--I forgot to take the paper towel out o fthe hull, lol!

Thanks, too, Rob and Mike! Ahhh yes.....The smell of hairspray in the morning!........boy, that's a smell I don't miss, lol! Approximately 1985...no, I won't post a better one...

Thanks, too, dupes, ps1scw, Andy and Erik--Erik, you're probably right; I'll put my money on DML coming outwith one soon!

Thanks too, cthulhu, glad you like the look too! 

Marc, good score there! Thanks for the comments--I never noticed that in the box top? COOL!

Thanks too, Jim! And Bill!

Huxy--you ask the darndest questions sometimes, lol! NO, that's not the plastic! That's the color of the snow remnants!

I appreciate alll your comments, guys! I'll try to get another update up soon--I'm down with the flu today after spending the whole day at Jenn's Syracuse University graduation, so I'll be slow at the workbench, but I want to try to finish this before I leave in about a month for tour...stay tuned!

  Starting to look the part of a well-used mobile matinance vehicle there doog.Great work as always Karl

  I take it the boom will have the lifting block attached? 

the doog wrote:

   That hair looks like it came with a warning [CAUTION:NO OPEN FLAME'S WITHIN 20 FEET]

LOL...talk about BIG hair...

Doog, I really like this build, although  gotta say that the paint-job isn't one of your best efforts...I would think that a lot of the residual whitewash would be left in the grooves of the wood-grain...having said that, it is still an awesome build...Those return wheels seem larger than normal??? Keep rockin,---both at the bench and on the stage, bro...

the doog wrote:

Ahhh yes.....The smell of hairspray in the morning!........boy, that's a smell I don't miss, lol! Approximately 1985...no, I won't post a better one... I appreciate alll your comments, guys! I'll try to get another update up soon--I'm down with the flu today after spending the whole day at Jenn's Syracuse University graduation,

Karl - First, we all have some strange photos dealing with hair in our past (yep...even the redleg). Thanks for sharing. Makes me want to take out the old HS year book 

Second, I hope you are feeling better. It stinks getting sick at this time of year.

Lastly, but most of all, Congrats to Jenn.

Rounds Complete!!

gotta say that the paint-job isn't one of your best efforts...I would think that a lot of the residual whitewash would be left in the grooves of the wood-grain...

I'm still spoiled from the German Half-Track build... with the splatter Airbrush- that was one jawdropping finish for sure

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Doog, I really like this build, although  gotta say that the paint-job isn't one of your best efforts...I would think that a lot of the residual whitewash would be left in the grooves of the wood-grain..

Anyhoo.... Thanks guys, for the comments. Steve, you are correct; there will be a whole lifting thingy assembled after I get the point where the box is permanently attached. I'm leaving that until I get the weathering somewhat to where I want it.

Thanks, too, Chris and Mike! 

Here's a quick update--some weathering, in the form of a wash of MIG Beutral Brown, and WHite oil applied in the brain of the wood (as Manny has correctly observed!) 

The MG mount is just starting to be painted.

Hans and Franz and Henrich will be partying in this portable partwagen....

It's gettin there slowly.....I'm taking a multi-multi-layered, patient approach to this build, so it's got a way to go yet. I'll be trying to paint the tools and mount tonight....comments always welcomed, but I realize there's not much to comment on yet...

the doog wrote:

Here's a quick update--some weathering, in the form of a wash of MIG Beutral Brown, and WHite oil applied in the brain of the wood (as Manny has correctly observed!)

I knew it! Karl's secretly a model zombie! Now he's putting oil in the brains of his kits!

I'm looking forward to seeing the next multi in the multi-multi approach for sure Karl, hope you're feeling better!

   The suggestion Manny made was a good one, defiantly looks better with the wash in the brain.

      I like the idea of using the piece of schurzen for the base plate. I take it this would have been cut with a torch? If so I think you should add some burn marks around the edges and some scuffing to represent where the crew were walking and piling cargo on top it.

   And Eva says she'd like to party with Hans and Franz

psstoff995 wrote:

As for the MG mount, did the camo hide the little bolt heads? I'm assuming they're still there, just can't see em. As long as in the end it doesn't look like sheet metal welded to wood. I don't know if that'd work

Bill--lol! I can't believe I didn't catch that--well, scratch that; yes, I do! I miss alot of bloopers when I'm typing fast!I'm still feeling rather like crap--I cancelled all my guitar students today, and am fearing I won't be up to moto-brapping tomorrow!

Thanks Rob!

And Steve--Eva's definitely "on the guest list", lol! The boys are ready to build some "international relationships"! lol!

Good idea on that plate--I was planning on weathering it up real good anyway. It's not ready to go in yet though--I'm still working on securing the box after making sure I have everything apinted where it will be hard to reach.

Thanks again, guys!

Looks fantastic Karl. I had to go back and take a second look at the weathering on the lower hull to get a idea of what I would like to try on my PZ Iv for the 1000 roadwheels GB.

Again Great Work

Bushi

Hi, Karl thte build is really starting to come together. I will agree with Manny, maybe a light wash of "Off White" oil paint will give a better effect to making the white look as if it didn't wash out of corners completely.

Keep up the good work,

Terry.

Karl,

Stupendous, outrageous and bodacious!!!

I had to come up with some words that you haven't heard about your builds.

IBuild148

Hi Guys,

Well, I've finally got my feet under me, and had some time to get back here. I was deathly sick there for a while, and to top that off, the building next door is being rennovated into hi-end concominiums, and wired for internet, so my internet has been turned off for much of the day for some reason. A real PITA. Plus that and rehearsals for the tour, and working on my bike =  one busy doog.In this respect, I'm sorry that I didn't get to document the finishing of this build as thoroughly as I would have liked, or am used to doing. SOme days I ws just draging mysefl to the bench, to paint one tool.....I felt like !!

But I have achieved my goal of finishing this one before I leave! 

Thanks to all of you who have followed and commented on this build so far, and I apologize if I've been tardy in replying. 

After the last posted photos, I really had a lot of work to do--I had to get the tracks on, and there was a bunch of little tools and mods to do. I put in a "workbench", which meant constructing a shelf, mounting it on rails and bolting it to the hull. I also constructed a fold-down foot shelf inside the entry to the hull, as I reasoned that it would be hard to operate the pedestal AA MGwithout something to stand on. You'll see all thi sin the photos.

I really wanted to busy-up this one--here's the tools and accessories all painted up.

The pulleys and jigs were quite something to put together--I had to link some of the chain.

Hans stands next to his "Spiegelwagen".

And the walk-around.

The completed crane assembly.

The exhaust was done using oils and MIG pigments.

Weathering was done with both MIG pigments, washes, and the "splatter method" used in my Hornisse build.

And the fun part--the interior...you can see the shelf I constructed.

Here's the flip-down shelf to stand on for the AA MG.

Lotsa junk under the shelf--this reminds me of under my bed....lol

Hans and Franz waitin' on the frauleins.....or a Tiger, lol. The third figure didn't make it into the scene.

Well, that's it for this build, Once again, thank you to all who have followed and commented.

I'll be leaving on tour on June 10th, and not returning until at least July 26th, so this will be the last build I have up until then....I may have one to start before then, but it'll sit until I get back.  

Comments, questions, and critiques welcomed and appreciated, guys!

Nice to see you were able to get some work in even while sick Karl and get this one across the finish line. Excellent work on all the little details on the Berge, definitely looks like the crew has been busy with all kinds of recovery work and the little additions like the shelf and gear give it a very "lived in" feel. I do feel sorry for Hans though, he has such a dejected look about him!

the doog wrote:

Hans stands next to his "Spiegelwagen".

Doog,

First, a question - why's Hans so po'd?  He looks like someone peed on his streudel or something....

Now, the platitudes:

HOLY COW!  STUPENDOUS!  AMAZING!

Yet another great build from you Karl.  I love the cluttered look you achieved.  Looks like my garage on wheels! 

At first I was a little concerned about your placement of the MG, but the shelf you built was a great addition.

All in all, I have to say I love it.  And since I said it before Manny, can she be mine...?

Thanks, Chris! I appreciate the kind words! That "handgun" is some kind of spray-gun or something---see the cup attached to the top of it? I think it was some kind of painting thingy?

Franz is pissed cuz the fraus are late.......again.........you know how frau's can be..lol!

Bill--thanks too, for the nice compliments! Your own Pz III is putting mine to shame, with the upgrades and PE you've got, but I appreciate the sentiments! I'll be watching yours until I leave!

Boyd--thanks too; Hans is on the lookout for those frau's, as I related to Chris. He's bumming cuz a half-hour is acceptable; an hour-tolerable, but three hours to a German landser starts to smell like a stand-up.....lol!

Thank you for the compliments! And yes; since you asked, you may drive her down the aisle--but I gotta warn you--you know how panzers feel about a Field Marshall! ....

Thanks too, Michael! "Lived-in" was precisely what I was going for, so your obsevations make my day! 

Well, I'm off to rehearsal at 1:00 today---I'll be back later; thanks again all who will take the time to comment!

bbrowniii wrote:

the doog wrote: Hans stands next to his "Spiegelwagen". Doog, First, a question - why's Hans so po'd?  He looks like someone peed on his streudel or something.... Now, the platitudes: HOLY COW!  STUPENDOUS!  AMAZING! Yet another great build from you Karl.  I love the cluttered look you achieved.  Looks like my garage on wheels!  At first I was a little concerned about your placement of the MG, but the shelf you built was a great addition. All in all, I have to say I love it.  And since I said it before Manny, can she be mine...?

...nice finish on this one...the interior details are really nice and the winterketten always make a Mk III look ready for town...very nice and unique recovery panzer---you almost never see a Mk III recovery built...the dirt and grime on the lower chassis and running gear is particularly well done...

Amazing build Doog! I realy like all the extra tools you added and the work bench was a great idea!

Hey Karl!

Sorry to hear you were sick but I have to tell you your pic of the painted tools took my gosh dogging breath away and has become my wallpaper on my laptop!  Incredible!!!!

Everytime I see one of your completed build logs I want to say this is the best yest but they are all sensational and very inspriational to me. 

The whole presentation is over the top Sir!

the doog wrote:

see the cup attached to the top of it? I think it was some kind of painting thingy?

Hope you're having fun at rehearsal, it’s been different without you updating builds during your bout with the flu, and I’m sure we’ll all suffer once more while you’re on tour, but I’m sure you’ll enjoy the trip!!

Yet another lesson in realistic weathering Karl, really excellent !

Julian

Top notch stuff there doog.  All the gear inside really sets it off.  Glad you are feeling better. It wasn't Der Schwein Flu was it?

Hans looks that way since he's pissed doogy gets to go on a trip and he has to stay home.

Don't forget hnas... you're there with Jenn

Excellent Karl and have a safe and successful tour my friend.

See Ya When You Get Back                                                                                             Tony the Mutt

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Hey, hey, bbrowniii---lay of my panzer !!!   I was sniffing the grease in her axles long before you sarted lusting after her jib assembly...lol...

Oh, but it is such a nice job assembly... grrrrrrrrrr....

Karl - The most important thing is you are feeling better. It really "inhales" when you are sick.

As for the build, fantastic. I would guess my only comment would be that any maintenance vehicle I have seen always has a good oil stain somewhere from the leaky oil can!!

The tools are great. Hanz and Franz look like maintenance people always look, the mechanic is tired and the maintenance sgt is pisssssed because here come another one!!

Love the weathering. As always, the king of the finish!!

Rounds Complete!! 

redleg12 wrote:

Hanz and Franz look like maintenance people always look, the mechanic is tired and the maintenance sgt is pisssssed because here come another one!!

Amazing work Karl! The weathering and finish are superb. I really like the looks of the wider snow tracks on it too. And the interior additions with all the tools and every thing look great. Makes it look like a very well used recovery vehicle. Hans and Franz look like the need some action though; whether it be a another Tiger or some frauleins. Great build!

I just returned from my bench, proud of how my current project is turning out, and how I mixed two random paints and got the exact colour I was looking for..

I saw this..

I have now quit the hobby..

Blergh..

You're the master, Karl!!!!

-Lasse

Doog,

No apology necessary for your absence. We are all just glad you are feeling better and back.

IBuildOne48

WHew, what a long day!

Anyway, thanks again all you who have taken the time to comment!!!!

Manny--somehow I think thatmy Bergy has a thing for you.....she asked me for some field-applied zimmerit, but I told her I didn't think it was exactly appropriate--but I think she was trying to catch your eye....lol! I appreciate your comments!

Thanks too, Orion, and Edmund! I'm grateful for your generous compliments! I'm honored to be on your laptop, Edmund!

Thanks too, Grem56 and Marc! To tell you the truth, the tour is going to be a long one--shows on the weekends for 6 weeks, and a lot of time to waste in between. It's boring without a bike or a modeling bench, to be honest!

Andy--sorry to hear that you got the bug too--nasty, eh, mate? Hope you're feeling top-shelf by now too! Thanks for your kind compliments! 

Thanks, Tony and Rob!! 

Mike, thanks for the laugh--I liked the line about "the mechanic is tired and the maintenance sgt is pisssssed because here come another one!!"--ha ha! That just has the ring of "Truth"! Thanks, man--hey look for those oil stains on the rear deck and the interior near the blue gas cylinders--they're in there!

Panzerguy and warhammer--thanks too, for your comments!

Lasse--don't give up, man! lol!I appreciate your comment and humor too, friend!

Ibuild148 --thanks for your kind sentiments! I do appreciate that--as well aseveryone who has wished me well in health!

Hmm.....I want to start another build here, but I'm off in about 10 days.....what to do, what to do? 

Decisions, decisions.....

.......So, this is what you do when you're sick?

Man, every time you build something you get better.

 I hate to say it but, "get sick more often".

That looks awesome Karl. It has a used look to it and all the equipment really finishes it off. It was a joy following your build.

Rob

disastermaster wrote:

.......So, this is what you do when you're sick? Man, every time you build something you get better.  I hate to say it but, "get sick more often".

Steve, thanks for your sincerely nice comment!

Thanks too, Tony!

And you too, Rob! And back atcha--that Abrams is one wicked-cool build as well!

the doog wrote:

Thanks, Chris! I appreciate the kind words! That "handgun" is some kind of spray-gun or something---see the cup attached to the top of it? I think it was some kind of painting thingy? Franz is pissed cuz the fraus are late.......again.........you know how frau's can be..lol! Bill--thanks too, for the nice compliments! Your own Pz III is putting mine to shame, with the upgrades and PE you've got, but I appreciate the sentiments! I'll be watching yours until I leave! Boyd--thanks too; Hans is on the lookout for those frau's, as I related to Chris. He's bumming cuz a half-hour is acceptable; an hour-tolerable, but three hours to a German landser starts to smell like a stand-up.....lol! Thank you for the compliments! And yes; since you asked, you may drive her down the aisle--but I gotta warn you--you know how panzers feel about a Field Marshall! .... Thanks too, Michael! "Lived-in" was precisely what I was going for, so your obsevations make my day!  Well, I'm off to rehearsal at 1:00 today---I'll be back later; thanks again all who will take the time to comment!

Karl You do realize that Frau is a term that denotes a married woman right?

the doog wrote:

WHew, what a long day! Anyway, thanks again all you who have taken the time to comment!!!! Manny--somehow I think thatmy Bergy has a thing for you.....she asked me for some field-applied zimmerit, but I told her I didn't think it was exactly appropriate--but I think she was trying to catch your eye....lol! I appreciate your comments! Thanks too, Orion, and Edmund! I'm grateful for your generous compliments! I'm honored to be on your laptop, Edmund! Thanks too, Grem56 and Marc! To tell you the truth, the tour is going to be a long one--shows on the weekends for 6 weeks, and a lot of time to waste in between. It's boring without a bike or a modeling bench, to be honest! Andy--sorry to hear that you got the bug too--nasty, eh, mate? Hope you're feeling top-shelf by now too! Thanks for your kind compliments!  Thanks, Tony and Rob!!  Mike, thanks for the laugh--I liked the line about "the mechanic is tired and the maintenance sgt is pisssssed because here come another one!!"--ha ha! That just has the ring of "Truth"! Thanks, man--hey look for those oil stains on the rear deck and the interior near the blue gas cylinders--they're in there! Panzerguy and warhammer--thanks too, for your comments! Lasse--don't give up, man! lol!I appreciate your comment and humor too, friend! Ibuild148 --thanks for your kind sentiments! I do appreciate that--as well aseveryone who has wished me well in health! Hmm.....I want to start another build here, but I'm off in about 10 days.....what to do, what to do?  Decisions, decisions.....

Actually why not do a M1A1 tank or Dragons new M2A1 Howitzer.

psstoff995 wrote:

a US build?!

Whats wrong with that.

I think Karl needs a change of pace and besides wouldn't you like to watch him tackle a Abrahms tank.

Well of course I would!!

haha, nothing wrong with that, just a shocking proposal, he’d have to find some Hank and Frank figures too... hmmm

And you know he would need to trick it out too.

psstoff995 wrote:

a US build?!

I dunno though--I just scored a kit I've been lusting after for EVER--the Alan 88mm Waffentrager---and when I get back from tour in late July, somehow I think that that one's going to be on the bench next?

Ya never know though...? I may break out a US build one of these days....?

Mikeym_us wrote:

Karl You do realize that Frau is a term that denotes a married woman right?

panzer88 wrote:

Another beauty for sure. Looks great Doog, looks like Hans and Franz got a little thirsty, only one bottle of wine/cider left. Glad that you're healthy again and good luck on the tour.

I used all of Hans and Franz's booze in the Hornisse build! lol!

the doog wrote:

panzer88 wrote: Another beauty for sure. Looks great Doog, looks like Hans and Franz got a little thirsty, only one bottle of wine/cider left. Glad that you're healthy again and good luck on the tour. Thankl you so much., David!! I used all of Hans and Franz's booze in the Hornisse build! lol!

Naw Karl I traded Hans and Franz a couple of M1 Carbines for that case of nice French wine you stashed on the Hornisse.

"whatcha gonna do wit all dat junk.. all that dat junk inside dat trunk.. doogs gonna get you get you dr... nevermind heh"

awesome work doog all the extra's really gave this the look it was after it really looks ready to tackle anything that comes its way, refreshing to see a quite unusual subject as well, its what we have come to expect from you

Um...uh...aahh....

OK, I'm just speechless.

I'll add more after I pick up my jaw from the floor!

Ron, thanks a bunch! You're right--I do like to try to find something a little different to spice up my display shelves. I'm glad you enjoy the variety!

Thank you, Ernest! I hope I wasn't responsible for any chipped teeth?! ...

Thanks too, Phaisal! You know, I'm a littl ebit like in your situation, where I am running out of rom to display my models, so a huge model like the Dora, or even a 1/16 scale tank is just out of the question for now. Until I either get a new apartment, or move in with my girlfriend, Jenn! Thanks for your kind compliment!

Huxy--eventually, I'll get back to that Stuka; I need to get hungry for a change of pace again.

Another stunner, Karl.  First, I hope you feel better, I didn't know you were sick, or I would have wished you a speedy recovery in a timely fashion.

I really REALLY like the RANDOM appearance of the clutter.  Not "desperately random," as it sometimes appears, ie that someone tried to make it look random, but the pattern of forced randomness is evident.  Does that even make sense?  It looks like some tired and busy guys put the stuff where it is, not like you tried to cover "x" square inches with "Y" items. 

I also like the vehicle, well off the beaten path.  I find myself looking forward to building the Panther, Tigers I and II, etc, but really keeping my eyes open for things that you really don't see every day.        

Very nice work, what's next?

Bill 

the doog wrote:

Ron, thanks a bunch! You're right--I do like to try to find something a little different to spice up my display shelves. I'm glad you enjoy the variety! Thank you, Ernest! I hope I wasn't responsible for any chipped teeth?! ... Thanks too, Phaisal! You know, I'm a littl ebit like in your situation, where I am running out of rom to display my models, so a huge model like the Dora, or even a 1/16 scale tank is just out of the question for now. Until I either get a new apartment, or move in with my girlfriend, Jenn! Thanks for your kind compliment! Huxy--eventually, I'll get back to that Stuka; I need to get hungry for a change of pace again.

You too are running out of space? Not to worry, I have a suggestion. You don't have to get a new apartment or move out anywhere. Just clear things from any wall in any of your room and have wall-based display case installed. In my case I dedicated two sides of the wall for this purpose (the other two sides are not applicable since they're sliding glassdoors). For each side of the wall I get wall-based display case measuring 3.00 m (~10') wide x 2.40 m (~8') high x 0.45m (1' 6") deep. It costed me around $450 each. Each is big enough to host hundreds of 1/35 armors and this is the optimal use of space because it's as high as the celing goes. Each sports 11 storeys including ground. Each storey is wide enough for four lanes of armors. Here's what it looks like:

the doog wrote:

Heh heh...you take a mortal man...(sorry)

I've been watching this build with great interest, as I'm soon to embark upon a project that will include a bergepanzer IV conversion, and I'm learning a lot about how to do the wood (mine won't have the box, but will have a wood turret-hole cover). Anyways, as always I'm in awe. I love the cluttered appearance. I was trying to remember what it reminded me of, and then it hit me - You remember Francois Verlinden's old dios, when he used to include one of every accessory VLS made in each dio?

Anyway, keep up the inspiring work, doog! I haven't even started on my BPz-IV yet, and I'm already rummaging through my spares box for extra tools...

~J

Citadelgrad87 wrote:

Another stunner, Karl.  First, I hope you feel better, I didn't know you were sick, or I would have wished you a speedy recovery in a timely fashion. I really REALLY like the RANDOM appearance of the clutter.  Not "desperately random," as it sometimes appears, ie that someone tried to make it look random, but the pattern of forced randomness is evident.  Does that even make sense?  It looks like some tired and busy guys put the stuff where it is, not like you tried to cover "x" square inches with "Y" items.  I also like the vehicle, well off the beaten path.  I find myself looking forward to building the Panther, Tigers I and II, etc, but really keeping my eyes open for things that you really don't see every day.         Very nice work, what's next? Bill

What's next? "In the Shadow of the Scarecrow"--a SURPRISE!!!!!

Look for it over in "Figures"-- a real departure for me....

Model Maniac wrote:

You too are running out of space? Not to worry, I have a suggestion. You don't have to get a new apartment or move out anywhere. Just clear things from any wall in any of your room and have wall-based display case installed. In my case I dedicated two sides of the wall for this purpose (the other two sides are not applicable since they're sliding glassdoors). For each side of the wall I get wall-based display case measuring 3.00 m (~10') wide x 2.40 m (~8') high x 0.45m (1' 6") deep. It costed me around $450 each. Each is big enough to host hundreds of 1/35 armors and this is the optimal use of space because it's as high as the celing goes. Each sports 11 storeys including ground. Each storey is wide enough for four lanes of armors. Here's what it looks like:

But I appreciate the suggestion! Maybe when Jenn and I move in together?

jthurston wrote:

Heh heh...you take a mortal man...(sorry) I've been watching this build with great interest, as I'm soon to embark upon a project that will include a bergepanzer IV conversion, and I'm learning a lot about how to do the wood (mine won't have the box, but will have a wood turret-hole cover). Anyways, as always I'm in awe. I love the cluttered appearance. I was trying to remember what it reminded me of, and then it hit me - You remember Francois Verlinden's old dios, when he used to include one of every accessory VLS made in each dio? Anyway, keep up the inspiring work, doog! I haven't even started on my BPz-IV yet, and I'm already rummaging through my spares box for extra tools...   ~J

You might want to wait out that conversion and pick up the new Trmupeter or Dragon Bergepanzer that's just around the corner?

Thanks again, J!

Model Maniac wrote:

I need these! Considering finishing my basement and making it into my modeling bench/workroom/display area...that would be PERFECT. Must look into local availability.

Oh, and btw - GREAT build Doog!

the doog wrote:

Phaisal. that's REALLY coool! I only wish I had room to do that! My apartment is a one-room, with a small bedroom and tiny kitchen. There are doors on literally EVERY wall. And free space? There IS NO "free space" at all! But I appreciate the suggestion! Maybe when Jenn and I move in together?

A one-room, with a small bedroom and tiny kitchen? Sounds like you're in Hong Kong or Tokyo, not mainland USA! Anyway, I wish you all the best and I hope you and Jenn will find a better place together soon.  

dupes wrote:

Model Maniac wrote: I need these! Considering finishing my basement and making it into my modeling bench/workroom/display area...that would be PERFECT. Must look into local availability. Oh, and btw - GREAT build Doog!

You're right, this is the perfect way to make use of space and it's most economical too. With this layout, you don't need side and back glasses, just the front (80x240cm - 4 sheets) and the shelves (40x150cm -20 sheets). On close look today I see that it's more crowded and that the case is long enough to host 13 tanks each lane, multiply by 4 lanes = 52 tanks per shelf, multiply by 11 shelves and you can host 572 tanks in 1/35 scale in just one side of the wall this size. So dupes, you don't need these, you need just one! ;-) 

doog: It just looks tired doog...like an old mechanic who doesn't like his job anymore...is that what you had in mind?  You have outdone yourself on this one!  All the tools (the necessary evils of the job) and the equipment really add to the look, I can only imagine the time it took, but it was WELL worth it!  The road wheels, tracks and lower hull are fantastic.  An all-around "tour-de-force" of modeling techniques and execution!

I do have a couple suggestions though (what a shock, huh), #1-based on being used by guys with greasy hands, I suggest dry brushing some grease in multiple hand-hold locations, specifically the top wood rail.  #2- The coiled cable on the back looks too clean, IMO.  The contrast works, but it looks like it could use a dark wash or two.  Oh yeah, one more thing, it looks like you slipped a guide horn on the left side on the middle top return roller...check that!

Great job doog!, Will she being going to Syrcon?!   

MM,

Great idea and look with the display cases. Is that $450 for materials and you did the work or did you but BUY them somewhere?

Also, what scale is that B-52?

IBuild148

dupes, I let my brother contact a contractor (owner of glass hardware shop) who came to take a look at the site and my requirements (specifications). The contractor proposed a lumpsum price (materials & labor), when agreed upon he brought materials and labor and the installation began. It took only a day to install the display case on each side of the wall. $450 is Thailand price, in the US this may cost twice or thrice.

Both B-52s are standard 1/72 scale ones. You said you built 1:48?

SMJmodeler wrote:

doog: It just looks tired doog...like an old mechanic who doesn't like his job anymore...is that what you had in mind?  You have outdone yourself on this one!  All the tools (the necessary evils of the job) and the equipment really add to the look, I can only imagine the time it took, but it was WELL worth it!  The road wheels, tracks and lower hull are fantastic.  An all-around "tour-de-force" of modeling techniques and execution! I do have a couple suggestions though (what a shock, huh), #1-based on being used by guys with greasy hands, I suggest dry brushing some grease in multiple hand-hold locations, specifically the top wood rail.  #2- The coiled cable on the back looks too clean, IMO.  The contrast works, but it looks like it could use a dark wash or two.  Oh yeah, one more thing, it looks like you slipped a guide horn on the left side on the middle top return roller...check that! Great job doog!, Will she being going to Syrcon?!

Steve-- thanks, for the kind words, and suggestions! Not sure what you saw in the guide roller? I checked all around, and it's all aligned and sano...The grease suggestion is agood one--perhaps I will add some more before I take this out to SYRCON.

If it beats yours, you have only yourself to blame! LOL! ........

the doog wrote:

First, thanks, Phaisal, for your kind sentiments!

Phaisal...huh...  Have to claim ignorance on that word...the context implies a kind word but a dictionary look-up finds no such word.  Anyway...

the doog wrote:

...Not sure what you saw in the guide roller? I checked all around, and it's all aligned and sano...

It was probably the camera angle and/ or the overlap of the tracks.  I just thought you better double check it.

the doog wrote:

The grease suggestion is agood one--perhaps I will add some more before I take this out to SYRCON. If it beats yours, you have only yourself to blame! LOL! ........

Hey, a real competitor likes to know he's facing his challenger when they're at full strength...a win against a team with half of the best players on the DL is a win with a "what if" question always looming in the back of the mind.