AFV Club SdK.fz 251/3 Ausf D WiP

Hey Bish!

  Congratulations in order here.

 Collectively you've done a wonderful job but I'd like to add an observation or two that stands out to me. 

  I have to agree with Karl's advice about the plaque since that's where all the action and detail is but then again, you've probably got your reasons.

 I'm not trying to be invidious here, I'm just trying to offer some positive advice - hope it will help you this time or next time.

 The first thing is - to me, the shiny stonework. That takes away from the scene as unrealistic. I feel that even if this is to be depicted as something that is wet  then the halftrack should be wet (shiny) also.    

 Maybe some darkened random shine near the stone joints, the base of the wall from runoff and/or the shade offered by the relative closeness to the ground might help and appear more convincing.              

 Something else to consider is that if you enter this in a contest then the lighting at the event might magnify the gloss appearance of the stonework.

 The second thing that jumped out at me is the monotone finish of the stonework. I feel that there should be some variation in the shade/hues there to bring it to life just as you did with the 251.

 Of course, you should do as you want. I know that a lot of times I just get tired of something and let it go as it is; however, this situation is something you could easily go back to and improve on later.

 Hope this is some advice that you and others can find useful here.

Bish, that looks right on.

I think the reason the placement of the vehicle (in relation to the base) works is because of the very interesting shapes of the stone wall, plus it includes a gate to break up the elements even further.

It could be a lighting problem with the wall colour, as the pieces looked fairly well rendered earlier in the post.

regards,

Jack

Guys, thank you for the comments. I was wondering what response the orientation would get. It was given a lot of thought both before and during the build. And which ever way I tried it, I always came back to this.

Karl, when I think of an empty space being wrong in a dio, I think of it as looking from the front and the empty space running right through. But, I do know what you mean. I tried to keep it down to a minimum by reducing the angle on the vehicle by as much as possible almost, but not quite, to the point of being parallel. I didn't add an animal for 2 reasons. 1, I have never done one and would like to practice first and 2, I think one would have legged it with such a large noisy vehicle pulling up along side. But I just wanted to give the feeling of a cattle field with the short grass and well trodden muddy gate area. I see your point about an enemy soldier, but I always have my doubts about those sorts of scenes, and given that one of the figures is a real person who happens to be in command of the Division, I would have questioned how an enemy soldier has got so close.

And no, I certainly am not bummed, I ask for comments and would be far more bummed if there were none. I know much of this is down to opinion and personal taste, and this is how we get to know how we all think. And if nothing else, it will give others ideas and get them thinking about how they might want to do things.

Disaster, I agree on both counts. The vehicle was given a light coat of semi gloss, my thinking being that a vehicle that has been moving would not look as wet as a wall. But when I toned down the mud, I did not think to do the same to the wall and it is very distracting. And I am not so sure that just using gloss varnish gives a real wet look anyway. But that will be easily solved with a light coat of semi gloss.

As for the monotone finish in the stone, when I painted it, I did do various shades of grey ranging from quite light to very dark. yet after one coat of very thin wash, this vanished and I am not sure why. There is some slight contrast but not as much as I wanted and it doesn't show up well in the pics. Unfortunately I did not take any pre wash pics. I may well go over some of the stones and see what i can do and then give an even thinner wash, its something that will be easy to do. That's defiantly going to be something to work on for next time.

Both your comments are defiantly taken on board and I will think on it this week before diving in.

jack, thanks. And you are right and I think its a combination of the lighting and the added varnish's that have changed the wall in that way. But I think that can be fixed.

Guys, thanks again for the comments. As always, they are well appreciated. As I said, some of this is simply down to personal taste and opinion, and whether we agree or not, its important to share them.

Bish,

Good to hear your comments back and to get some insight what you were/are thinking. :)

I can understand your trepidation to put an animal into the scene, but look at it this way--any new challenge is going to make you a better modeler. Now, I CAN understand the idea of an animal being scared by a large vehicle, but perhaps not. I've spent time on a farm; some of the animals barely move when they hear a vehicle.

As far as the "soldier" idea; I can understand what you mean about having doubts about the veracity of that scene, but the way I look at it, modelers create "Art" in the way that a Hollywood studio creates "Art", and a halftrack could have just rolled up on a soldier who was lost behind the lines, and it doesn't have to be "realistic" in the strict sense. The drama and tension in the scene could make a real "Oooh!" moment for your diorama. Anyway, it's your call; I just wanted to pose a second look at the idea.

As far as your wall and the glossy vehicle: I believe that it's nearly impossible to pull off a scene in the rain without visual evidence of a storm; things flapping in the wind, soldiers sheltering, etc. You could have made an effective "wet" scene however, by adding copious rain smears down the vehicle side rather than just a blanket gloss coat. Same thing on the wall. And be aware that gloss WILL blur and reduce your lines of color and intensity delineations. This is because you greatly reduce the inclination of light to refract off of certain colors in different wavelengths when you add gloss. I would tell you to repaint your wall with flat coat, then add sharper contrasts, and add copious rain streaks to imply rain.

Karl, you know I am always open to ideas and opinions, and yours are more than welcome. I would like to do an animal at some point, the Germans certainly used plenty of horses. I know what you mean about the soldier, but as I am sure you can guess, I star one of these builds with an idea and then try and stick to it as closely as possible. But its certainly something I will be doing in future builds.

I know what you mean about creating a stormy look. In this build I was trying to depict a scene following a storm, to be precise, the big storm on june 19th which damaged the Mulberry harbours. Kurt Meyer took over the Div on June 14th and the last 2 weeks in June were rather quite for the Div, so that's the sort of time frame I am looking at. I do like that idea of the rain streaks, what would you use for that. I am planning on giving the wall a flat coat this weekend and trying to get some variation in the stone work, that wall is defiantly way to shiny.

Good deal, Bish; I see what you were going for, and understand your concept now for the dio. :)

For rain streaks, you can use any gloss medium. MIG also has a "Wet Effects", and I think that AK does too? I know they have a "Rain Marks for Nato vehicles" but you can use that for anything, really.

A good discourse on this thread, and in civil fashion without egos--good references, advice,  and ideas for all involved! :)

Ye, I have seen the AK wet effects, I use a lot of there stuff but might give MiG a go. Thanks for that.

And as always, its a pleasure knocking these ideas around, that's how we all advance and improve.

Just catching up around the forum and glad I dropped in to see how this one has progressed Bish! Looks like the gang has given you some good advice about the rain effects you're after, I've filed them away myself for potential future use as well.

You and me both Bill. Going to try and get to it this weekend and will post some pics once its done.

Thank you.

If you are looking for a 251, AFV, Dragon and Tamiya all make good kits. The first two do have better detail than the Tamiya ones, but those still build up to nice builds. The AFV kit did have a lot of poor stubs to remove, even those hidden from view hand to be cut off or sanded away as they hindered construction.  There is also the Zvezda kits, but they only do Ausf B's and while I have one I have not yet built it, and it does have accuracy issues.

251 are a nice subject as there are so many options and many are produced in kits. But apart from my 28 251's, the only other halftrack's I have are a Zvezda truck and an Italeri rocket launcher, so my experience with halftracks is rather limited.

Very interesting & informative build with lots of good input as well. Great looking model overall, especially the interior!  Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Mike

Thanks Mike.

Bish I love this one. I too like the 251's and thats just how I think of them, used and muddy. Figures are awesome and the display once again shows skills of many years. Really nice Bish.

Thanks Terry. But not so much of the many years next time

You got it my friend. They are sneaking up a bit aren't they?

A bit. They are racing away like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car.

Very well executed!!!

Thank you.

Very well built and weathered!!

I like all the dio settting, definitely they look lost, at least for me...heheh

Keep the good work and keeping us posted on the same.

Have an excellent week.

Hugo

Thanks Hugo, much appreciated.

Bish, very well executed.

I need to look in here more often, I keep missing good stuff.....

Thanks RB. I know what you mean. I am trying to make more of an effort to check the aircraft and armour forums more often.

Hi Bish! This 251 is in the mail and I was looking for some information about the build when I stumbled on yours! Not much that I could find so far. I came to understand that the construction had some tricky bits/fitting issue?

Do you still got some pictures of yours? Sorry for being nosy, I'm curious to see how it turned out! :)

4 years late to the party but I may answer your question about the armband missing for the 12th SS Pz Division ; they didn't wear any until after Normandy. If I'm not mistaken, those cuff titles had something "honorific" about them and the 12th got its only issued after Normandy if I understood correctly, as they were a freshly created unit. I THINK that the officers and NCO's forming the core being vets from the Leibstandarte (like Fritz Witt, Meyer,...) may have still be wearing the LSSAH armband but this would need some checking out (pictures from the HJ in Belgium in spring 1944 when Dietrich and Von Rundstedt visited, or early pictures of Witt in Normandy before he got killed). Hope this will help filling some blanks :-)

Was surprised to see this thread popup lol. But yes, i do have the pics, its just that at the time i was still useing PB. But i have all my pics on my computer.

The fit issue i had was similar to some other 251's i have built, including Dragon. But i am leaning towardsthe idea that it was me rather than the kit. The problem was with the upper partt of the hull with the front from the drivers compartment forward floating in the air when the back was secured. Its no real biggy and a bit of clamping does the trick.

I built the AFV club Ausf C last year and did not have any problem, in fact, of the 5 251's i currently have completed, it was the best yet.

I'll get some pics sorted at the weekend and try and replace those lost links. I will be sure to get some pics up of the radios as well, they look much better once they are wired up.

The vehicle i did is pictured in one of those photo's from the visit you mention. I'll have to go back and read the thread now, but what you say about the armbands does make sense, willhave to try and find some pics of Meyer and co before Normandy.