the doog

 

Rob, looks like you company was "Medium", or I would use that just to say thanks.

 

By the 1980s, the US Army went to what was called the J-series MTOE as part of the Division '86 reorganization. Tank platoons went from the five tank formation (ex. A21 thru A25) to a four tank formation. With the exception of the 82nd Airborne's 3/73rd Sheridan battalion, there were no longer differentiations between between light, heavy and medium tank battalions.

The J-series MTOE also added a fourth tank company, D Co. with the three tanks swiped from each tank company (9 tanks) and an additional 5 tanks added to each battalion. Tank battalions went from 53 to 58 tanks.

The HQs and CSC (combat support companies) were combined into the HHC (Headquarters and Headquarters Company) we have today.

The US Army Combat Arms Regimental System had not taken place by the time of the Korean War. Separate numbered tank battalions were still being used.

That looks pretty darn cool

Hi,

I really like your paint job.  Can't wait to see the finished model.

Pat

Lol, I'll definitely change that to a "3" then with a little paint. Don't want anyone to think that you and Rob steered me wrong! 

Lol, probably not an 8. Tank platoon organization strengths have varied over the years, but I don't believe that there were ever 8 in any. 

And yes, Korean War era cat schemes are probably some of my favorite US Army tank paint schemes. 

stikpusher

That is looking very cool! Very creative to go with one of the Korean War tiger designs. And since it is a "what if", nobody can fang you on the bumper codes  

Glad to help out, even if only a little, on this project of yours Karl.

 

Let me guess--no number 8 tank in a platoon, right? I didn't even think of that until now...is that correct?

Glad you're liking the scheme! :)

That is looking very cool! Very creative to go with one of the Korean War tiger designs. And since it is a "what if", nobody can fang you on the bumper codes  

Glad to help out, even if only a little, on this project of yours Karl.

stikpusher

Yes, the "TK" stands for Tank as in Tank Company. 

 

So here's some more work: I used the same process of masking with silly putty to get "claws" on the front.

I also settled on some markings "8A 1>   A28" (128 was my racing number!) I also put some of those numbers on the side, too.

I actually got on my computer and "Painted" a few photos with different Tiger-graphics schemes. I came up with the following....I am pretty happy with it so far.

Of course, I used silly putty to get the mask correct. I cut pieces out and then pasted them where I wanted them. I mixed up two different shades of Tamiya off-yellow, tinted with both Orange+Brown and then adding White.

I actually added literally a spot of black to make a "shadow" color, and sprayed that where appropriate...

Basically this is a three-tone yellow.

I will add black stripes to it tomorrow.

I also did the fenders to make "legs" in front. Thank god for sillly putty!

And here's some shots as it now looks....pretty cool. I'm going to add black stripes tomorrow..

Thanks for looking in guys!!! Opinions and suggestion welcomed!

Yes, the "TK" stands for Tank as in Tank Company. 

stikpusher

To add to Rob's post above, no US Army Tank Regiments or their sub battalions served in Korea during the war. Just tank companies and battalions attached to 8th Army, X Corps, or the various Infantry Divisions and Regiments. Army TO&E at that time had a tank company assigned to Infantry regiments. 

If you look at the unit codes in this photo, the tank is assigned to the 5th Infantry Regiments Tank Company

 

 

So here is a list I found of tank battalions and companies in the Korean War. I hate to ask you this, but could you give me some plausible markings from these groups? I would be looking for a heavy tank company of course. I THINK I understand the whole marking system somewhat, but honestly, I'm prone to screwing these kinds of things up, and you guys lived this and know it like the backs of your hands. I would definitely appreciate your expertise!

Rob, looks like you company was "Medium", or I would use that just to say thanks.

Tank Battalion

• 140th Medium Tank Battalion
• 16th Tank Battalion
• 193rd Heavy Tank Battalion
• 245th Medium Tank Battalion
• 2nd Medium Tank Battalion
• 3364th Medium Tank Battalion
• 4th Medium Tank Battalion
• 60th Tank Battalion
• 64th Heavy Tank Battalion
• 6th Medium Tank Battalion
• 6th Medium Tank Battalion
• 70th Tank Battalion
• 71st Heavy Tank Battalion
• 72nd Medium Tank Battalion
• 73rd Heavy Tank Battalion
• 77th Medium Tank Battalion
• 78th Heavy Tank Battalion
• 79th Medium Tank Battalion
• 7th Medium Tank Battalion
• 87th Medium Tank Battalion
• 89th Medium Tank Battalion (8072)

Tank Company

• 14th Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 160th Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 179th Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 223rd Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 23rd Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 279th Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 31st Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 32nd Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 38th Infantry Regiment Tank Company
• 9th Infantry Regiment Tank Company

8th Army, 6th Tank Battalion... hard to tell the Company due to mud or dirt on that side's markings

This M46 is assigned to an unknown Tank Battalion attached to 8th Army, B Company, 1st Platoon, vehicle 5

To add to Rob's post above, no US Army Tank Regiments or their sub battalions served in Korea during the war. Just tank companies and battalions attached to 8th Army, X Corps, or the various Infantry Divisions and Regiments. Army TO&E at that time had a tank company assigned to Infantry regiments. 

If you look at the unit codes in this photo, the tank is assigned to the 5th Infantry Regiments Tank Company

Rob Gronovius

 

 

Markings would be mirrored front and rear. The triangle (Δ) is used to denote armor units and can be used after the division number as well as before the regimental number. Although for the most part, regiments are non-entities in the US Army with a few exceptions.

For example there were the 1Δ, 2Δ, 3Δ for 1st, 2nd and 3rd Armor Divisions in the US Army and the 49Δ and 50Δ for the 49th and 50th Armor Divisions in the Army National Guard.

But when used for battalions within a regiment, the triangle comes between the battalion number and regiment number.

For instance, I served with the 5th Battalion, 77th Armor Regiment. While there were other numbered battalions (1st thru 6th), the 77th Armor Regiment did not exist as a stand alone entity with a regimental headquarters. Back in WW2, when regiments did exist, there would be a regimental headquarters and three battalions. Company A, B, C would be 1st Bn, D, E, F was 2nd Bn, G, H, I was 3rd Bn, etc.

Battalion bumper numbers would be 1Δ77, 2Δ77, 3Δ77, etc. or sometimes could be seen as 4-77Δ, 5-77Δ, 6-77Δ depending on how that particular unit decided to paint them on.

 

the doog

 

As far as the difference between a Division, Company and a Battalion, how would that manifest itself in the markings? That triangle symbol--is that "Divisional" or "Battalion"? WHat would a typical "correct" marking look like for Korea? Would that triangle symbol be used?

And markings on the front only?

 

Markings would be mirrored front and rear. The triangle (Δ) is used to denote armor units and can be used after the division number as well as before the regimental number. Although for the most part, regiments are non-entities in the US Army with a few exceptions.

For example there were the 1Δ, 2Δ, 3Δ for 1st, 2nd and 3rd Armor Divisions in the US Army and the 49Δ and 50Δ for the 49th and 50th Armor Divisions in the Army National Guard.

But when used for battalions within a regiment, the triangle comes between the battalion number and regiment number.

For instance, I served with the 5th Battalion, 77th Armor Regiment. While there were other numbered battalions (1st thru 6th), the 77th Armor Regiment did not exist as a stand alone entity with a regimental headquarters. Back in WW2, when regiments did exist, there would be a regimental headquarters and three battalions. Company A, B, C would be 1st Bn, D, E, F was 2nd Bn, G, H, I was 3rd Bn, etc.

Battalion bumper numbers would be 1Δ77, 2Δ77, 3Δ77, etc. or sometimes could be seen as 4-77Δ, 5-77Δ, 6-77Δ depending on how that particular unit decided to paint them on.

Pawel

Hello!

I've got this document here:

http://www.vietnam.net.pl/TB746_en.htm

It's from 1964, so it's a little new, but it should give you some ideas as to the markings.

It also lists older documents, so you might want to check those out.

Hope it helps, good luck with the painting and have a nice day

Paweł

 

 

GMorrison

 

Any chance that tanker can exchange his Thpson for a M3A1?

 

Gamera

Love the tiger mouth!

I flipped though Jim Mesko's 'Armor in Korea' and the biggest thing to jump out at me were large two-digit numbers painted on the turrets of many of the M26 and M46s.

 

stikpusher

Unit codes are placed on the front and rear of the tank. Typically on the fenders or on the front and rear plates. The triangle symbol after the first number denotes an Armored Division, while an I after the number denotes and Infantry Division. The second number would be the Tank Battalion with the triangle afterwards.

example: 2I 23^    2nd Infantry Division, 23rd Tank Battalion (a made up battalion)

then on the opposite side is the Company/Platoon/Tank combination,

example: A21    A Company 2nd Platoon Vehicle 1

so the codes would read

2I 23^       A21

 

Hello!

I've got this document here:

http://www.vietnam.net.pl/TB746_en.htm

It's from 1964, so it's a little new, but it should give you some ideas as to the markings.

It also lists older documents, so you might want to check those out.

Hope it helps, good luck with the painting and have a nice day

Paweł

GMorrison

It's pretty spectacular. Oscillating turrets are cool, funny the Germans seemed to prefer an open fighting compartment.

Any chance that tanker can exchange his Thpson for a M3A1?

 

For Korea, the Grease Gun would be correct... Thompsons were long gone by 1950...

It's pretty spectacular. Oscillating turrets are cool, funny the Germans seemed to prefer an open fighting compartment.

Any chance that tanker can exchange his Thpson for a M3A1?

Love the tiger mouth!

I flipped though Jim Mesko's 'Armor in Korea' and the biggest thing to jump out at me were large two-digit numbers painted on the turrets of many of the M26 and M46s.

Unit codes are placed on the front and rear of the tank. Typically on the fenders or on the front and rear plates. The triangle symbol after the first number denotes an Armored Division, while an I after the number denotes and Infantry Division. The second number would be the Tank Battalion with the triangle afterwards.

example: 2I 23^    2nd Infantry Division, 23rd Tank Battalion (a made up battalion)

then on the opposite side is the Company/Platoon/Tank combination,

example: A21    A Company 2nd Platoon Vehicle 1

so the codes would read

2I 23^       A21

Thanks too, Mike, Bish and Bryan. I appreciate the comments. :) Nice to see you guys following along.

stikpusher

Like already said, no circle stars  in Korea. That was a WWII Western Allies air recognition ID marking in ETO/MTO only from 1943 to 1945. The cat faces seen on US tanks in Korea was only in the Spring of 1951 period during the counter offensives to drive back the Chinese. They were authorized by General Ridgeway after he took over to foster and reflect an aggressive attitude. And also to take advantage of a supposed Chinese superstition against cats.

As far as number codes go, they would follow the standard format seen from WWII thru today on US Army vehicles. No armored division served in Korea. Only Tank Battaions and Companies attached to Infantry units. When viewed looking at the vehicle, the higher unit, Division and Battalion is seen to the left. The right would be the Company letter and Platoon & Vehicle number. Depending upon the unit, numbers may be seen on the turret sides and rear as well. In 1952 and later, some US Army tank units camouflage painted their tanks with two or three color patterns.

 

As far as the difference between a Division, Company and a Battalion, how would that manifest itself in the markings? That triangle symbol--is that "Divisional" or "Battalion"? WHat would a typical "correct" marking look like for Korea? Would that triangle symbol be used?

And markings on the front only?

Karl,

This is really coming along nicely.  Great shading effect. Can't wait to see your final finish on this beast!

Like already said, no circle stars  in Korea. That was a WWII Western Allies air recognition ID marking in ETO/MTO only from 1943 to 1945. The cat faces seen on US tanks in Korea was only in the Spring of 1951 period during the counter offensives to drive back the Chinese. They were authorized by General Ridgeway after he took over to foster and reflect an aggressive attitude. And also to take advantage of a supposed Chinese superstition against cats.

As far as number codes go, they would follow the standard format seen from WWII thru today on US Army vehicles. No armored division served in Korea. Only Tank Battaions and Companies attached to Infantry units. When viewed looking at the vehicle, the higher unit, Division and Battalion is seen to the left. The right would be the Company letter and Platoon & Vehicle number. Depending upon the unit, numbers may be seen on the turret sides and rear as well. In 1952 and later, some US Army tank units camouflage painted their tanks with two or three color patterns.

Can't help you with the markings, but that paint job is really nice. Love how thats come out.

No stars on the top and no circles around them either.

Not sure about The reg numbers, but I think you can use a fictional number starting with "B00*****". When making fictional armor I usually pick a significant date as the reg no. Birth dates, aniversaries and such. Just a personal touch lol.

Really nice work on the paint! That's wicked!