This one is on my list. I hope to pick up some nice notes and build hints along the way.

the doog

 

Rob, you're like a walking encyclopedia on old kit info. I always enjoy reading your posts when you get all historical like this. I had no idea Glencoe were so significant in that way. I tried building that old Frog and just couldn't get enthused about it when I saw the low quality of the molds.

 

Hey, maybe they'll reissue the old AMT 1974 AMC Javelin AMX in 1/25 that goes for over $100 or more on eBay, now that would be sweeet! I won't hold my breath though...

 

The man who started Glencoe had been a member of the IPMS chapter I joined when I was stationed outside of Boston. He went the extra mile and really produced some awesome decal sheets that were literally worth more than the plastic kits they were designed to be used on.

Ye, quite a few kits do have raised detail on, but still handy to have. I have an Academy Warrior in the stash and am trying to think if there should be any raised lettering, i am sure there is on the turret, and also sure the kit doesn't include it. Will have to get some of those.

Gamera

Looks good Karl, I'd think a lot of your advice on the hull would be applicable on an M48 as well. Thanks to you and Gino on how to drill out the mud release slots on the drive spockets, I've a couple of M48s but haven't had the guts to take drill to plastic yet. 

And interesting solution to the gun barrel, I normally just slowly glue it inch by inch to make sure it's as straight as possible, going to look into doing this way now. 

Really looking forward to how you deal with the two-part turret and the rubber-type plastic representation of the cover. I wonder how it stacks up to the two-part turret design's of Tamiya and Takom's AMX-13 kits???

 

Bish

Nice update there karl, very informative as always.

I like the look of those Archer decals. Are they as prominant as the origianl you unfortunatly removed????

 

Yes, they're raised, and really, perfectly in scale. They work just like decals; cut 'em out and just stick 'em on with water. I used them on my old M48 Patton build here before, on the turret, and they're a nice little detail to add. Looks like now we're not going to be needing them on some kits. There are also numbers on the hull top on this model. :)

Rob Gronovius

 

 

the doog

Rob Gronovious---"Renwall and Aurora".....yuck! And how about "Glencoe"? Their "Frog" Soviet APC was it? Now THERE was an "amorphous blob of styrene" if there ever was one! :)

 

 

 

 

Glencoe was a company started around 1995. Like Round2, they just took these old molds, cleaned them up and reissued these kits that were getting collector's prices.

 

The Glencoe FROG (free rocket over ground), PT-76 and BTR-50 were based on the same old motorized chassis originally issued by ITC (Ideal Toy Company) in the 1950s and again by Ringo in the 1960s.

Before Glencoe issued these kits, old glue bombed kits were going for a pretty penny. Much like the old Renwal Ontos and 1980s Revell reissue used to get $40-50 for, but now the recent reissue doesn't go for $20.

 

Hey, maybe they'll reissue the old AMT 1974 AMC Javelin AMX in 1/25 that goes for over $100 or more on eBay, now that would be sweeet! I won't hold my breath though...

Looks good Karl, I'd think a lot of your advice on the hull would be applicable on an M48 as well. Thanks to you and Gino on how to drill out the mud release slots on the drive spockets, I've a couple of M48s but haven't had the guts to take drill to plastic yet. 

And interesting solution to the gun barrel, I normally just slowly glue it inch by inch to make sure it's as straight as possible, going to look into doing this way now. 

Really looking forward to how you deal with the two-part turret and the rubber-type plastic representation of the cover. I wonder how it stacks up to the two-part turret design's of Tamiya and Takom's AMX-13 kits. 

Nice update there karl, very informative as always.

I like the look of those Archer decals. Are they as prominant as the origianl you unfortunatly removed.

Some of those Aurora WWI biplane kits were not bad at all. The final issues of them before Monogram took over the molds were pretty decent for their time. And some of their 1/48 AFVs were also half decent. Just think,  the 1975 dream USAREUR of MBT-70s and AH-56 Cheyennes in 1/48...

the doog

Rob Gronovious---"Renwall and Aurora".....yuck! And how about "Glencoe"? Their "Frog" Soviet APC was it? Now THERE was an "amorphous blob of styrene" if there ever was one! :)

 

The Glencoe FROG (free rocket over ground), PT-76 and BTR-50 were based on the same old motorized chassis originally issued by ITC (Ideal Toy Company) in the 1950s and again by Ringo in the 1960s.

Before Glencoe issued these kits, old glue bombed kits were going for a pretty penny. Much like the old Renwal Ontos and 1980s Revell reissue used to get $40-50 for, but now the recent reissue doesn't go for $20.

OK, 2nd post. Things are getting ... interesting..

By the way, if you can't see some of these photos in their entirety, some of them are shaped longer than others due to my editing; you should be able to see them if you click on them.

First up: the sprockets. Be careful when positioning the holes at 12, 4, and 8 o'clock. If you simply visually locate them, you could wind up thinking that the 4 and 8 go over the sprocket teeth, but they don't---you must go in between the teeth for 4 and 8. See the photo below.

I used a series of drill bits to first locate the holes and then to bore them out with larger bits. Use a good ol' #11 to finish cleaning and shaping the holes.

Make sure you only do the outsides!

So, things were going so uncharacteristically well that I decided to make some extra work for myself... here, on the bottom hull, these are NOT old manufacturer's marks, like "Revell 1985". lol. These are casting numbers and they're supposed to be there! As a measure of how much I've forgotten about how "plush" today's models can be at times, I saw these and, not paying attention, removed them because I thought they were like license numbers put on there to copyright their molds, liike in the old days. I would up having to replace them with some Archer raised decals!

Replaced...

I took the opportunity to tackle the gun barrel, as it will need some time to harden. FOr those of you who can't stand using glued barrels and use metal ones instead, here's how to save yourself some money.

I soften up the plastic using Testor's liquid cement. I like this glue for its low "bite" and working time. I use the lid-brush to put a coat of glue around the mating surfaces of BOTH sides of the gun barrel, twice around.

This nicely softens the plastic...

Now join the barrel halves at the bottom, and add glue as you progressively join it upward...

Next, squeeze that sucker like yo' mama.... See how the bead pops up? That's what you want...

Put a little putty on the muzzle end to hide any seam end...

Now just set that aside for 12 hours overnight and in the morning you'll be able to sand it pretty flush. I'll show you what I do with that later.

OK, there are some holes to be filled on the rear panel; I just use little shape cut from styrene strip to fill them. Much easier than using putty in a case like this.

Here's something that is going to require some Olde School Modeling; I can already hear the doogs barking about this one...the rear engine deck has a bit of a problem...you have to glue on this exhaust cover with the deflectors, but not where it actually fits!

In the photo below, notice the handles on the rear deck. In the illustration, the "blue" handles are not actually there at all! I initially thought that the cover rested in that area, but no---it's supposed to go OVER the handles that are molded on near the rear. Oh...bother...

Sure enough--in a later step it shows the correct position of the exhaust cover..so you have to remove four clamps molded onto a spaced louver panel and place them where the missing ones are. WHAT FUN!!

Using a straight razor blade, I carefully cleaved the clamps off. I used a scrap of index card to protect against nicks to other parts.

Now you have to clean up the louvers. This MicroMark mini-chisel is your huckleberry.. most of this will be hidden, but it pays to go the extra mile, lest IMPS judges with dental mirrors and mini-Maglights dismiss your model out-of-hand....

The finished deck showing the position of the cover to be glued next...

And.....voila'! The exhaust cover finally in place! All grab handles scavenged! Also, notice the two different directions of the gas caps (?). I checked this as well as I could; the directions definitely intend this mismatched directions. Weird, thinks I....

Oh yeah, the wheels are assembled too...

So that's it for tonight.. Still got some suspension component and arms to add, and then we'll be getting to that darned turret...

Thanks for looking in, guys!

Gamera

Lol, could be worse though- if you'll excuse me for going a little off subject here Karl. 

Sitting here looking at Italeri's Chinese Type........etc

Cliff, I think we're talking about two different things entirely. I think what you're talking about is when modeling companies buy the licenses and molds to previously marketed models and then just repackage them without telling you what's in them. Yeah, that's kinda crappy. Do your research before buying something that you're not familiar with in terms of its provenance.

HeavyArty

I agree w/you Doog.  These whiners have been spoiled by the latest kits and are only assemblers.  Most of them couldn't fix the simplest problems and are not really modelers. Like you say, most of these "huge issues" are really minor and can be fixed w/some old school modeling skill.  I am happy that these new kits are coming out, even if they are not perfect.  I can fix them if I choose to.

 

I also wonder if some of these guys who are complainers are driven by deadlines, and resent having it out more time into a model when they're paid by output? Anyway, as long as there are guys like you and me and many other "old school modelers" here who accept a small challenge, I say just take their observations and turn 'em into better models!

I got some more "old school" modeling coming up in the next post. :)

I also agree, but I also see why they complain; yes the kits are better than the Renwal armor and Aurora armor I grew up with, some of the old Monogram are superior. The few 1/32 scale Airfix kits from 1976 are better. But it is 2017, not 1960, and the company has produced awesome models in the past.

They could do better; the guys who do their superb kits could probably knock these out the ball park.

Lol, could be worse though- if you'll excuse me for going a little off subject here Karl. 

Sitting here looking at Italeri's Chinese Type 59 in the WoT box on HobbyLink Japan- they've got it priced at 5,800 Yen or $52.25 US. I had assumed this was Trumpeter's old Type 59 that I got off Ebay for $12.00 US. Which is frankly highway robbery for Italeri. The brand new Takom Type 59/69 (contains hull and turret parts to build either tank) is only 4,800 Yen or $43.24 US. 

So a twenty year old Trumpeter kit is priced higher than a brand new Takom kit just because it says WoT on the box!?!!? 

And then I look for a review on the Italeri 'Type 59'..... And I was wrong- it's not the Trumpeter Type 59 kit. It's actually the late '80s ESCI T-55A 

Which the Chinese copied the Type 59 from, but still the details aren't right. I suppose some will sell to people unwilling to look the blasted thing up and get a review though...

So basically I can buy the brand spanking new Takom Type 59 or pay ten bucks more for a thirty year old ECSI kit of a different tank in a Type 59 box!?!?! 

PS: The Italeri kit does come with a bottle of cement, poster, and tank guide, and decals that match those in the game. Probably worth maybe five bucks??? And a coupon for 30 days premium time in the game which is worth a fair bit but would be probably cheaper to buy separtly. 

Again sorry for going off subject but gee whiz, Dragon ain't got nuttin' on Italeri here... 

I agree w/you Doog.  These whiners have been spoiled by the latest kits and are only assemblers.  Most of them couldn't fix the simplest problems and are not really modelers. Like you say, most of these "huge issues" are really minor and can be fixed w/some old school modeling skill.  I am happy that these new kits are coming out, even if they are not perfect.  I can fix them if I choose to.

Rob Gronovius

I can understand some of the whining. Dragon is an established model manufacturing company that has done some of the best model kits of some subjects. Then they drop the ball and kick it into a pile of manure with some kits. This is one of several that have been ripped.

It is almost like they have two development teams. An A-Team that puts out kits like their Tiger, Abrams, M48A3 and many of their German armor kits.

Then there's a B-Team that can't quite get it right. They put out the M60A2, M103, Saladin, and others like it.

I am thankful for their non-panzer kits regardless of quality. I really like the MBT70 even though it has been dismissed as middling.

 

The things that really irritate me are the steps-back, like the return to rubber band style tracks---especially ones that consistently don't fit; gimmicky things like "workable suspension" and the inscrutable decision by companies to make "workable tracks" but not just plain indy-link sets. I would LOVE to be able to throw a set of regular indy link tracks on this, and other, tanks without having to go through the fiddly process of assembling "workable" tracks that aren't EVER going to "work" at all. I think that if you did a quick survey, there's maybe one out of 1,000 modelers out there who actually articulate their suspension in a diorama. I just don't understand the trend.

ygmodeler4

....return rollers on the top hull, interesting. 

Thay are not really on the top hull.  They are on the upper portion of the lower hull. Because of the design of the M48 hull, which has a prominent bulged "waistline" to deflect rounds, Dragon divided the lower hull into a top and bottom section.  The return rollers are on this top section of the lower hull.

Dragon's top and bottom section of lower hull.  The triangles on the sides of the top section are where the return rollers attach, just under the fenders, like all other tanks.

Thanks, Josiah and Pawel! Nice to see you guys here again!

I can understand some of the whining. Dragon is an established model manufacturing company that has done some of the best model kits of some subjects. Then they drop the ball and kick it into a pile of manure with some kits. This is one of several that have been ripped.

It is almost like they have two development teams. An A-Team that puts out kits like their Tiger, Abrams, M48A3 and many of their German armor kits.

Then there's a B-Team that can't quite get it right. They put out the M60A2, M103, Saladin, and others like it.

I am thankful for their non-panzer kits regardless of quality. I really like the MBT70 even though it has been dismissed as middling.

Hello Karl!

I'll be watching, too - good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł

Looking forward to seeing what you do with this one....return rollers on the top hull, interesting.

"Another area you may want to address is the missing mud release holes on the rear sprockets." -- HEAVYARTY

Oh dear, THOSE again! lol, I had to do that on my old M48 that I did here too. Yup; consider it done. Thanks again, Gino. I appreciate that call out as well. :)

Another area you may want to address is the missing mud release holes on the rear sprockets.

stikpusher

I am in league with Rob and Gamera. Why not do all the "what ifs?" and prototypes that are non third Reich that are inspired by WOT. Especially if it creates new kits and brings in new blood. I am happy to see all these long neglected AFVs from the West coming out. 

This project looks like a real sweet one! Looks like an M48 hull with one high speed wazoo new dangled turret.

 

Gamera

Awesome!!! 

I looked at this when it first came out but was put off by the bad reviews and that same thread on Armorama. Looking forward to how you solve the issues here. 

I can see the points here about WoT but I'm just happy to see new experimental and rare AFVs that aren't German for a change. I picked up Takom's new T30/34 and T29 and they're beautiful kits, pretty darn good reviews too. 

 

PANZERJAGER

 

 

 

As en example of a WOT build I did;

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/161366.aspx

Just my

 

Rob Gronovius

 

 

the doog

 this baby is REAL, not just a "World of Tanks" fantasy creation (a sad trend, in my opinion )

 

 

 

 

I don't know, I see it as a positive trend. World of Tanks has gotten gamers to try building model tanks. They are more concerned with replicating their in game tank than accuracy in the model kit. Therefore models that were once panned by modelers have found a second life with gamers unconcerned with accuracy buying the kits to get in game goodies or just wanting to build "their tank".

It's also opened up a fresh vein of casual modelers flowing into the hobby.

Another benefit is that companies will start creating new kits of tanks that appear in game that haven't been done to death like the Tigers and Shermans. We're getting new kits of tanks that existed in prototypes only. This gives more fuel to the modelers who like to do "what if" kits or Luft '46 type builds.

More modelers and more models; I fail to see the downside.

 

I guess what annoys me is that they're releasing these ridiculously upgunned Panthers et al with gun barrels that are 30 feet long, instead of giving us some more cool offerings like this and my long-hoped-for M55 and the various cool Cold War US stuff that we're sorely lacking. But, really, I must admit that they seem to be noticing this stuff too. Maybe we'll finally get a good M55 and some of those cool little SPGs and APCs and whatnot from that era.

More modelers is definitely a good thing. I guess that I may underestimate the appeal of these WoT models; most people I talk to aren't interested in them, but it just may be the crowd that I'm in. :)

the doog

 

Bish

Interesting subject Karl, will be watching.

Surely you must have done an armour kit with top rollers before.

 

 

 

 

 

Bish

Interesting subject Karl, will be watching.

Surely you must have done an armour kit with top rollers before.

 

 

 

 

lol, do you guys know that I actually had a verified brain fart? I knew what they were called but I've been building those darned Indy cars so long I plum forgot what the parts are called! Thanks for the reminders! :)

 

 

 O dear, you have been corrupted. Just play safe and before you get carried away, store all those bright metalic colours well out the way. Would not want any nasty accidents