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USMC M50A1 ONTOS - National Museum of the Marine Corps

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, February 7, 2020 4:31 PM

Nice.  I did one a while ago for a customer w/the Voyager PE/barrel set.  It came out really nicely.  The Verlinden interior is nice as well.  Looking forward to seeing this one.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, February 7, 2020 4:57 PM

I have a few photos of the interior of a restored Ontos from a museum at Camp Pendleton if you’d like me to post them for your reference here.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, February 7, 2020 5:01 PM

Hello!

Lookin' forward to see this one built! Our friend redleg12 (Mike Del Vecchio) built one many years ago and at that time he wrote that there might be some problems with the geometry of the suspension in the academy model - you might want to check it out, I think it's fixable at an early stage.

Anyhow - I'll be watching, so good luck with your build and have a nice day!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, February 7, 2020 5:17 PM

stikpusher

I have a few photos of the interior of a restored Ontos from a museum at Camp Pendleton if you’d like me to post them for your reference here.

 

Please do post your interior pictures Carlos. Thank you.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, February 7, 2020 5:24 PM

Pawel

Hello!

Lookin' forward to see this one built! Our friend redleg12 (Mike Del Vecchio) built one many years ago and at that time he wrote that there might be some problems with the geometry of the suspension in the academy model - you might want to check it out, I think it's fixable at an early stage.

Anyhow - I'll be watching, so good luck with your build and have a nice day!

Paweł

 

Pawel, I also read something about the suspension problem. I'll try and find the posting or article. Thank you.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, February 7, 2020 5:59 PM

HeavyArty

Nice.  I did one a while ago for a customer w/the Voyager PE/barrel set.  It came out really nicely.  The Verlinden interior is nice as well.  Looking forward to seeing this one.

 

Thank you Gino.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, February 22, 2020 5:57 PM

With help from Snapdragonxxx (James) I have determined what color to paint this model. The correct USMC green for tactical vehicles is FS34052. Some modelers have indicated that FS24052 is the correct color, but I believe that is an error.  I read the instructions for FED-STD-595C and they indicate the first number in the FS numbering system is the sheen. 2 = semi-gloss and 3 = matte finish, so one would presume the 24052 and 34052 are the same color with different sheens.

However, the two colors look completely different online and the FS instructions warn against using a computer to determine the actual color, just like we talked about in this forum. For my M50A1 ONTOS I intend to use Vallejo Model Air paint and Vallejo indicates that 71.013 Yellow Olive shown below is FS34052 and Marine Corps specifications indicate that FS34052 is USMC green used on tactical vehicles.

The spoon sample picture below was taken this morning outside in the sun and best represents what I see with my eyes. The sample was painted with Vallejo 74.601 Grey Surface Primer, allowed to dry 24 hours. Then painted with one coat of Vallejo 71.013 Yellow Olive mixed in my air brush, 10 drops of paint to 1 drop of Vallejo 71.161 Airbrush Thinner.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, February 22, 2020 6:39 PM

I invested in a photo-etch bending tool from The Small Shop for this project, please see links below. The only thing missing is the Voyager upgrade kit of photo-etched parts. They were ordered through eBay back on February 5th and have not arrived yet. However, the Voyager kit is coming from Australia, so I will wait until the end of the month.

Armorama Review:

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=4444

IPMS/USA Review:

https://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/5-speed-hold-fold-workstation

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, February 22, 2020 9:35 PM

Apologies for my delay in posting these for you.

Drivers Compartment, looking in from the left side

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, February 22, 2020 9:36 PM

Ammo rack below rear hatch

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, February 22, 2020 9:38 PM

Looking in rear hatch

 

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, February 22, 2020 9:53 PM

Wow those are great pictures! Thank you so much Carlos, your timing is perfect.

Do you think the interior paint is matte finish?

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, February 23, 2020 11:09 AM

You’re welcome. I’m glad that you find them useful.

 

I want to say it was satin or semi gloss. I know it’s completely different, but the M113 family vehicles that I crewed or rode in had the interior in that satin/semi gloss finish.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, February 24, 2020 11:47 AM

Now this is gonna be interesting to say the least!!! Yes

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, February 24, 2020 3:39 PM

Memories of the Renwal 1/32 Ontos from back in the 50's!

Didn't this beast have a M2 mounted on one of the tubes for ranging?

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Park City, Utah
Posted by Frankenpanzer on Monday, February 24, 2020 4:57 PM

Tamiya XF-74 is the best match I have found based on my hazy memory.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:00 AM

GMorrison

Didn't this beast have a M2 mounted on one of the tubes for ranging?

 
Each gun has the mount to add the .50 cal ranging gun above it.  Usually the top 4 had the guns mounted.
 
Pawel
...there might be some problems with the geometry of the suspension in the academy model - you might want to check it out, I think it's fixable at an early stage.
 
The suspension is squashed together and down at the front.  It is not an easy fix.  I left it alone on mine.  You can read what Steven Zaloga had to say about it, along with a pic.  He left it alone as well.    
 

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:47 AM

Gino, when Pawel mention the suspension issue I studied several ONTOS photographs and also found pictures of the Renwal 1/32 Ontos model. It became clear the front of the Academy model is lower then actual photographs and for that matter different than the 1950's Renwal model.

I'm not sure the Academy tracks will allow much expansion, but now that I know what to look for I will try and find a modification method before I start assembly.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:02 PM

HeavyArty

 

 
GMorrison

Didn't this beast have a M2 mounted on one of the tubes for ranging?

 

 

 
Each gun has the mount to add the .50 cal ranging gun above it.  Usually the top 4 had the guns mounted.
 

Oh, I see that now on the Voyager set.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Orlando, Florida
Posted by ikar01 on Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:11 PM

Always loved the Ontos.  I have to get those detail sets!

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, February 27, 2020 12:35 PM

HeavyArty
Panel
...there might be some problems with the geometry of the suspension in the academy model - you might want to check it out, I think it's fixable at an early stage.
 
The suspension is squashed together and down at the front.  It is not an easy fix.  I left it alone on mine.  You can read what Steven Zaloga had to say about it, along with a pic.  He left it alone as well.    
 
 

Gino, please take a look at the location of part B34 and B33 in steps 1 and 2 of the assembly instructions:

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/9/7/129397-11-instructions.pdf

If the location of these two parts are lowered on the hull I believe it would have the effect of raising the front end giving the model the correct profile.

Steven Zaloga's overlay shows the distance between the wheels get progressively shorter on the model compared to the Ordnance Tank Automtive Command plans. I don't think there is anything I can do about that without relocating the rest of the axel locations. What do you think

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, February 27, 2020 12:43 PM

Maybe, I'm not sure.  I would think you have to lower the whole front roadwheel arm (B42, B43) location to raise the front end.  It also needs to come forward, as do the 2nd and 3rd roadwheel.  Then adjust the position of each of the subsequent road wheel arms as well.  Like I said, it isn't as easy as it looks.  That is why I left mine as is.  As Zaloga says, "the kit looks like an Ontos," when done.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, February 27, 2020 4:14 PM

Today I received the two upgrade kits I've been waiting for to start this project. Most notable is the Voyager Model kit #PE35370 which traveled 8,000 miles from a place near Alice Springs, Australia. I attempted to purchase this kit from a source in China but was unsuccessful.

I tested the paint selections on plastic spoons and decided to use Vallejo #74.601 Grey Surface Primer, Vallejo #71.013 Yellow Olive for an exterior finish which matches FS34052 USMC Green. Vallejo #71.001 White for an interior base coat and clear coat the exterior with Vallejo #70.520 Matt Varnish and Vallejo #70.522 Satin Varnish for the interior.

I also purchased a photo-etch bending tool from The Small Shop to improve the quality of forming PE parts on this project. And again, I plan to use my Iwata RG-3L-3 spray gun for most of the painting and my air brush where I need too.

The first step is to decide if I want to modify the suspension which is known to be problem. As Gino pointed out it is a lot of work and without modification the finished model still looks like an ONTOS.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, February 28, 2020 12:41 PM

Completed steps 1 through 4 plus 12 that allowed me to see if adjustments I made to the suspension gave the model the correct 'nose-up' profile. What do you think?

I decided not to try and correct the wheel spacing because it would require major changes, but rather concentrate on getting the front of the model to look less squashed.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, February 28, 2020 1:08 PM

Looks much better.  Good job so far.  The second and third road wheel look a little high now.  They look to be floating above the lower track.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, February 28, 2020 3:40 PM

HeavyArty

Looks much better.  Good job so far.  The second and third road wheel look a little high now.  They look to be floating above the lower track.

 

Gino, you have very good eyes, I didn't know if anyone would notice. The second set of road wheels are definitely floating about 2 mm above the lower part of the track and the third set of wheels are just touching the track. However, now I know what to do, but it's to late on this model. I'm hoping when this model is painted in USMC Green the wheels will be dark enough you won't notice the issue.

The adjustment I made is where the suspension arms connect to the hull. I noticed there was some play in the way the parts fit together, so I modified the arm where it fits into the hull to allow downward rotation about 3 to 5 mm which raised the hull just enough to give the model a typical ONTOS profile. If I built another M50A1 I would be more careful that each set of wheels touch the track.

Harold

 
 
 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, February 28, 2020 3:47 PM

You could put it on a terrain base. I think that and so figs around it would suit it well, sort of a crew served artillery piece.

You did a nice job on it so far.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, February 28, 2020 3:59 PM

GMorrison

You could put it on a terrain base. I think that and so figs around it would suit it well, sort of a crew served artillery piece.

You did a nice job on it so far.

 

Very good idea GMorrison and thank you for the kind words. I'm building this for a friend who was a Captain in the Marine Corps in charge of six ONTOS during the Vietnam War. I can have a nice wood base with a little ground cover and a plaque with his Unit information and Logo.

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Friday, February 28, 2020 6:17 PM

Hi sarge,

Coming on well this. I would put some dirt etc under the tracks and lift them so they fit the wheels and make it look like the suspension is doing stuff!

Looking forwards to seeing the green on it. You could take the greens to your friend and see what he says about the various shades before painting. Maybe he has some photos?

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, February 28, 2020 7:06 PM

snapdragonxxx

Hi sarge,

Coming on well this. I would put some dirt etc under the tracks and lift them so they fit the wheels and make it look like the suspension is doing stuff!

Looking forwards to seeing the green on it. You could take the greens to your friend and see what he says about the various shades before painting. Maybe he has some photos?

 

Thank you James, I agree my friend should remember the color and even if he didn't I'm blessed with ten other Marines at my American Legion Post who would. I say blessed because these Marines are a rowdy bunch of old guys who keep everyone entertained with their stories.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, February 28, 2020 11:59 PM

Your plan will really make an impression.

Thank you and your compadres for your service. I was about 5 years behind you all, headed for college as a good bit of luck, and didn't get drafted.

I'd build up the base with a couple of layers of Bondo. On too thick and it cracks, but that might not be a bad thing. Then go to town on the pink color with sloshy washes of black.

Getting Vietnam guys is hard if they are tankers or artillery. Speaking of whom, Gino will know way more, but my best source so far is the Tamiya mortar crew, who are probably more early sixties Europe. Leather boots, army, not marines.

Vietnam vegetation is even harder. Probably worth avoiding here.

 

 

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, February 29, 2020 5:08 AM

Thank you GMorrison.

I completed step 5 and part of step 6 and step 8 of the assembly instructions. From here on steps 6 through 12 will involve substituting some exterior parts for photo-etched or machined parts on the upper hull and turret. Before I can glue the upper hull to the lower hull I need to assemble and paint the interior. The interior parts are Verlinden Productions resin kit #2623.

Today I was looking for information regarding the ONTOS interior and found a collection of ONTOS pictures, drawings and illustrations on Pinterest: https://pin.it/gdCTXEq

Surviving ONTOS: http://mcvthf.org/Veh/Surviving_M50_Ontos.pdf

Marine Corps Vietnam Tankers Historical Foundation:  https://mcvthf.org/Veh/M50A1_Ontos.html 

 

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, March 1, 2020 12:42 PM

I have completed the lower hull interior assembly of the Verlinden Productions kit. There were a couple of issues mainly due to poor quality photographs in the kit. However, the parts are well fabricated and only require the usual clean up associated with a resin kit.

Because of the lack of instructions I'm thankful for the pictures that Stikpusher posted and the information I found online, without which it would be very difficult to determine where certain items were located inside the ONTOS.

One thing I would caution anyone planning to use this Verlinden kit is to make sure the driver and gunner seats line up with their respective hatche openings. There are no instructions or marks on the deck to use as a reference.

I also found the shell storage rack to be a little confusing, but here again I had photographs and drawings to guide me. It appears that one shell is not placed in the rack correctly, but that is done for a reason. The engine bulkhead in front of the gunner seat is protruding out where it connects with the starboard bulkhead limiting space available for the top right shell in the rack. The shell rack is also designed to fold back against the starboard bulkhead when not in use as illustrated in the drawing below.

The forward stanchion on the port side next to the drivers seat should be in front of the seat instead of at the back, but that is a minor issue. The port bulkhead also has some thickness issues as you can see in the plan view photograph, but rather than try to remove material on the back of the bulkhead I modified a few small features on the deck to make it fit.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:06 AM

Completed the interior assembly and started on exterior hull assembly. Ready to begin painting the interior next. I will tape off areas needed to glue the upper and lower hulls and give the interior a coat of Vallejo #74.601 Grey Surface Primer. This will include all the Verlinden interior parts plus the inside surface of the of the upper and lower hulls. After that a coat of Vallejo White #71.001 for the interior. Then detail the gauges, controls, seats, and other interior features.

Started using the The Small Shop photo etch bending tool; however, it was not required for the gas can holder. The quality of Voyager Model kit parts appear to be extraordinary. The tie-down for the gas can as an example is unbelievably detailed right down to tiny holes in the strap for the buckle.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 11:31 AM

Whoops, looks like I missed a few posts... The Verlindin detail does look really good, nice work on getting it all assembled and in there!  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 12:20 PM

Gamera

Whoops, looks like I missed a few posts... The Verlindin detail does look really good, nice work on getting it all assembled and in there!  

 

Thank you Gamera, it really tested my ability. I found issues with the way some Verlinden parts fit into the Academy model and had to improvise to make them work together. The photographs helped more than anything. I don't want to be critical of Verlinden, because my inexperience has a lot to do with the problems I encountered with this kit.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, March 7, 2020 1:46 PM

I completed some of the upper hull photo-etch parts assembly and gave the interior a coat of grey surface primer. I'll give the primer 24 hours to dry and then apply a base coat of Vallejo #71.001 White on the interior. The Small Shop photo etch bending tool was a real joy to use while forming the tool rack for the outside of the upper hull. As you can see below the rack is flat on my vice and square with all angles formed at 90 degrees.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Saturday, March 7, 2020 3:45 PM

It is coming along nicely.  The Verlinden interior and PE really add to it.  Keep up the great work.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, March 7, 2020 5:26 PM

HeavyArty

It is coming along nicely.  The Verlinden interior and PE really add to it.  Keep up the great work.

 

Thank you Gino, I appreciate your encouragement.

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, March 10, 2020 10:00 PM

I completed the interior base coat of Vallejo #71.001 White and assembly of exterior features on both sides of the upper hull. I do not want to add more exterior parts until the interior is finished, so I don't break anything. I will let interior base coat dry for 8 hours before starting interior detail painting. Below are some interior photographs I will use to help me determine what details to paint.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 11:41 AM

Ohhh that looks nice!!! 

I have to wonder though, did the driver get in though the front hatch? Seems like it'd almost be easier to use the big back one. Or were you blocked from doing that? I can't tell from the photos. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 2:27 PM

Gamera

Ohhh that looks nice!!! 

I have to wonder though, did the driver get in though the front hatch? Seems like it'd almost be easier to use the big back one. Or were you blocked from doing that? I can't tell from the photos. 

 

Hi Gamera, please notice the driver's seat in the photographs I posted; the back of the driver's seat folds down flat. I think the driver could clime over the radio on the deck to get into his seat. He definitely could clime in through the hatch above his seat because I posted a photograph of the driver up to his shoulders in that hatch.

However, with four shells in the storage rack there was not a lot of room for the driver, gunner and loader. This vehicle was designed to travel over rough terrain at 30-mph, so it's my guess the loader sat on the shells or deck and held on to whatever he could when they were moving.

And move they did. In Vietnam the Marines used the shoot-and-scoot maneuver all the time because the ONTOS armor was not very heavy. Shoot-and-scoot is an artillery tactic of firing at a target and then immediately moving away from the location where the shots were fired to avoid a counter attack.

Harold

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 10:38 PM

Below is a better view of the exhaust pipe and muffler guard made of photo-etched brass. I was expecting trouble forming this three part guard, but it was not a problem at all after working with many fiddly parts on AFV Club projects over the last three months.

Point of interest: The [ONTOS] vehicle was taken to the Aberdeen testing facility where single [106 mm] rifles had been tested. When all six weapons were fired at once, the back blast from the firing knocked bricks out of a nearby building and knocked the rear windows out of several cars. source: wikia.org Military website

Harold

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 10:49 PM

Wow - shocked how small that vehicle was.  But what a punch!  Looking good.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, March 12, 2020 8:28 AM

Harold: Thanks! I can see the fold-back seat now. 

Nice work, she's coming right along. I really like that aftermarket muffler, looks sharp! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, March 12, 2020 9:05 AM

Gamera

I really like that aftermarket muffler, looks sharp! 

Actually, I believe that is the kit-supplied PE muffler guard.  Academy has been stepping up their recent kits to include PE.  This one was quite good.  You can see the three-part PE muffler guard in step 7 on the instructions below.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, March 12, 2020 11:17 AM

Thanks Gino, I had no clue. I'm impressed!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, March 12, 2020 11:31 AM

Thank you Keavdog, Gamera and Gino. Gamera, Gino is correct the Academy kit has an excellent PE fret that is exactly the same as the Voyager parts. However, I was so insecure about messing up this feature I decided to use the Voyager parts first. When it turned out not be an issue I was surprised and still have the nice Academy fret intact.

One thing I would do different if I did this muffler and exhaust pipe guard again is pre-form the pieces first with the correct diameter mandrel of plastic or metal. I used the actual muffler and exhaust pipe and it was difficult to get a nice smooth bend.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, March 13, 2020 9:27 AM

Yeah, that looks like a nice fret of PE. I just want the engine vent screens in a lot of cases anyway so it's nice to see them included. Having a set of headlight guards are cool too. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, March 14, 2020 8:11 AM

A perfect day to work on a model. It's unusual to have fresh snow in the middle of March in Vancouver, Washington. Picture taken today at 5:30 AM PST.

Harold

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Saturday, March 14, 2020 10:56 AM

I really like your build so far, nice work.....

We are having much of the same today in central Ohio but then it will return to 65 degrees tomorrow.

I noticed in your signature block your reference to Ft. Sill and Artillery. We you an artilleryman at Ft Sill at some time? If so were you a 13B, E, F ???

Just curious,

Ben

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, March 14, 2020 12:14 PM

Thank you Ben; I served during the Vietnam War in a field artillery battalion with M109's as RATT Team Chief 05F40, current MOS might be 13D/25C. I trained and supervised personnel to maintain tactical communication networks. I received field artillery and communications training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma and Fort Lewis, Washington.

Harold

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Sunday, March 15, 2020 7:51 PM

I started my career in the late 70's going to Ft Sill and trained as a 13E, Fire Direction, or FDC. During my time in Artillery I was assigned to both M109 and M110 (8 inch) nuclear capable units. Artillery= The king of Battle; "Steel on Target", Zero mils! 

Your model is really looking good. Nice work on a not so common subject...

I'm really looking forward to seeing the finishws product.

Ben

 

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, March 15, 2020 10:59 PM

Thank you, Ben. I hope the ONTOS turns out well too. I would like to give it to a friend who commanded six of them during the Vietnam War.

I noticed you're working on the 1/350 scale USS Alabama BB-60. I have an interest in 'man-of-war' ships too. I finished a 1/300 scale USS Alexandria SSN-757 (Los Angeles-class) nuclear-powered attack submarine two years ago for a friend whose son is currently a crew member.

I've been looking for two other ship models for a long time: The USS Leary DD-879 (Gearing-class) destroyer and USS John King DDG-3 (Adams-class) guided missile destroyer. These were ships I served on in the U.S. Navy. Neither have ever had models manufactured in their hull numbers as far as I know, but both have had models in their class offered in the past.

Another project I'm ready to start when I finish the ONTOS is a Vietnam era M109 like I served with, but made from an AFV Club M109A2 #AF35109 and Tamiya M109 (Vietnam War) #37013. Please see article below:

Gino (HeavyArty) got me interested in this project last year, so I purchased the models over the winter, including the AFV Club M54A2 6x6 5-ton truck #AF35300 to do a diorama. Gino is a great resource, he served as an Artillery Officer on M109A6's.

You mentioned that you served on M110's, well it so happens that is a model I have been thinking about too. If you have built this model or have any suggestions on building one please let me know. Thanks

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, March 15, 2020 11:30 PM

Hah! That photo is from REFORGER 84. I’ve seen it here and there before. I guess 5th ID Divarty sent over the M110s by ship. Most units, mine included, drew their gear from POMCUS sites. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Sunday, March 15, 2020 11:33 PM

Actually the units I were in had those artillery pieces. I was the Fire Direction Chief that received the Foward Observers radio call, my section calculated the firing data and sent it to the guns as well as the command to fire; I did not actually serve on any artillery piece. Rather, I was in an M577 (pop top M113) Command Post beside them. 

With that said, I did have a very short moment learning how to fire othem just in case we had to perform a "Final Protective Fire" and hasty retreat (being over-run). Fortunately I never had to use those gunnery skills in duress. 

That photo of the M110's really bring back some memories. And speaking of REFORGER, I participated in several of those including 1984; most as a player, and one as an evaluator. Is that a Gamma Goat to the left, behind the soldiers? Sorry, my mind wanders....

I have the Tamiya M577, an M109 or two, and a M110 still to build myself. I was thinking of getting an M548 to be used as the ammo carrier for my M110. I beileve AFV Club made it, but it is hard to find. 

Sorry for taking this much time in your thread. Your future builds look as interesting as the current one. Good hunting for the ships. My USS Arizona is a hand full, but then again I am not a long time ship modeler. My only other ship build was last year, the HMS Roberts

Now get cracking on that ONTOS, we need more of your inspiration Big SmileYes

Ben

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, March 16, 2020 4:00 AM

That is a very nice ship model Ben. HMS Roberts was a Royal Navy monitor in the Second World War. A monitor or war ship is heavier than a destroyer but has a shallow draft that allows it to operate in rivers and was used to patrol the English Channel with destroyers during the war. The Roberts had 15-inch guns in its main turret and 13-inches of armor.

In case you haven't met, Stikpusher (Carlos) who commented on REFORGER 84 also served in the U.S. Army. I believe he is a retired law enforcement officer too. In December 2018 Carlos and I participated in a Christmas challenge and his model, a Tamiya 1/35 German Sdkfz 222 went on to win First Place in IPMS Orange County, January 2019.

IPMS: International Plastic Modeler's Society

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 10:26 PM

I'm making progress on the interior detail painting. The instructions from Verlinden suggest adding copper wire to the fire control panel to represent the white metal guard on the front of the panel as shown below in the second photograph. I used 28-gauge copper wire. I'm not sure how realistic it looks, but after it's painted it may look better.

Next item to paint in the interior is the 106 mm shells. In the photograph below the projectile is black and the casing appears to be tarnished brass. The oxidation on brass is normal and the color I was planning to use is Vallejo Oxido Rust #71.080. The color chip below does not look like tarnished brass; however, on black rubber tracks it looks pretty good. Anyone have a better color for tarnished brass please let me know.

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 9:45 AM

Sarge, the 106mm RR round casings are not made of brass, but are made of preforated steel, and instead have a lacquered or anodized coating. I only saw the 106 up close a couple of times in my career, and had no training on them whatsoever.

I almost think that the new color by Tamiya, “old bronze” might work as the casing.

this link has info on ammo

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1300-204.pdf

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 10:49 AM

DRUMS01
I am not a long time ship modeler. My only other ship build was last year, the HMS Roberts

 

Very nice ship model there.

I'm smiling- a ship only a Red Leg could love. Shore bombardment for Operation Torch, D-Day at Sword Beach.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 11:26 AM

No idea about the right colour for the casings but the interior looks great from here! 

 

Ben: Great job there on the monitor too!  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 2:50 PM

stikpusher

Sarge, the 106mm RR round casings are not made of brass, but are made of preforated steel, and instead have a lacquered or anodized coating. I only saw the 106 up close a couple of times in my career, and had no training on them whatsoever.

I almost think that the new color by Tamiya, “old bronze” might work as the casing.

this link has info on ammo

https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1300-204.pdf

 

Excellent find Carlos... I'll hold off painting the shells until I get that Tamiya old bronze paint. Thank you.

Harold

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, March 21, 2020 2:18 AM

I completed as much of the interior detail painting as I can until I receive the bronze paint for the shell casings.

The next step while I wait for the paint is to assemble the exterior photo etched parts on the front and rear upper hull.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, March 21, 2020 12:22 PM

That looks sharp Harold, darn near the spitting image of the interior shots of the real thing!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, March 21, 2020 1:21 PM

Ditto

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, March 22, 2020 10:59 PM

Thank you Gamera and Carlos. I finished painting the fire control panel guard and it's a little rough up close, but at least it looks more like the the real thing now.

I finished the upper hull assembly too and ready to start steps 9, 10 and 11 which is the turret, recoilless rifles, spotting rifles and machine gun. Below is a rear-view illustration from the ONTOS manual and a photograph of the actual rear fenders. I think Academy made the rear fenders on their model to long.

The Tamiya bronze paint I ordered for the 106 mm casings should be delivered tomorrow and once they're painted, I can glue the upper and lower hulls together.

I have not glued the hatches down yet because I'm still thinking about how to display the ONTOS when it's finished. I like the idea GMorrison and Gamera suggested of adding a couple Marines and creating a wood base with a little ground cover.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, March 22, 2020 11:34 PM

HeavyArty

Actually, I believe that is the kit-supplied PE muffler guard.  Academy has been stepping up their recent kits to include PE.  This one was quite good.  You can see the three-part PE muffler guard in step 7 on the instructions below.

 

Gino, you were right about the Academy PE fret. In my opinion it's better engineered than some of the parts in the Voyager kit. I had the Voyager headlight guards glued on before I realized they looked terrible. So, I replaced them and the rear fender brackets with Academy PE parts. Who would have guessed?

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, March 23, 2020 5:25 PM

Sergeant

 

Carlos, thank you for suggesting Tamiya Bronze. I could not find an 'old bronze' in Tamiya's acrylic paint line, but I did find Bronze X-33 which has metallic flakes in it, so I mixed it 3:1 with Tamiya Dark Copper XF-28. Please see the left spoon in the photograph below. I think the mix is near perfect match with the photograph of the shell casing above.

I also completed the turret assembly, so the next step is the assembly of 106 mm recoilless rifles and for that Voyager has supplied lightweight aluminum barrels to replace the plastic Academy barrels.

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, March 23, 2020 8:37 PM

Sorry about the color misdirect Sarge. I kinda like the 1:1 mix better, but you’re the man on scene. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, March 23, 2020 10:30 PM

stikpusher

Sorry about the color misdirect Sarge. I kinda like the 1:1 mix better, but you’re the man on scene. 

 

You know, I think 1:1 is better too. I have learned so much more from veteran scale modelers like you Carlos in three years than I would have in nine or ten years on my own. In this regard I think FineScale Modeling has created a valuable tool in these Forums. The forum can allows its members to increase learning exponentially and it's fun.

I remember reading an article about the effects of light on surfaces. It suggested that model paint should be a touch lighter than the actual subject we are trying to represent with our model because the model surface is so much smaller. I know there are some very excellent modelers who disagree, but in this case we have a controlled experiment. I simply paint the shells 1:1 and when the paint is dry put the upper hull on and see if it looks right. If not, I add a second coat of 1:1, or change the mix to 2:1 or 3:1 what could be easier.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:06 AM

That looks really good! And I'd probably put a figure beside her to show how small the AFV is. 

The bronze mix looks good, pretty darn close to the real thing. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Far Northern CA
Posted by mrmike on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 1:31 PM

That is one fantastic interior - it's a shame to cover it over! Your post about how to display the finished model made me think about a photo of an APC I recently saw in a contest article. The upper hull appeared to be hinged on one side so the interior was totally visible. It's inspiring me to look into how to hinge one side of an Academy M113 Fitter, maybe a small wire and tube hinge like the car modellers use when they open doors and trunks.

Just a thought; your Ontos is a real work of art.

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:02 PM

Gamera

That looks really good! And I'd probably put a figure beside her to show how small the AFV is. 

The bronze mix looks good, pretty darn close to the real thing. 

 

Thank you Mrmike and Gamera; I like your suggestions. I started today thinking I would assemble the 106 mm recoilless rifles, but realized I needed the machine gun assembled first. Adding the Voyager PE parts to the machine gun was not as easy as I thought. I also gave the 106 mm casings a coat of 1:1 Tamiya mixed paint and they look right to me.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:03 AM

That MG looks really good! I've tried folding up those PE ammo boxes and not had much luck keeping them straight and square. And the teeny-tiny sights- WOW! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:46 AM

Gamera

That MG looks really good! I've tried folding up those PE ammo boxes and not had much luck keeping them straight and square. And the teeny-tiny sights- WOW! 

 

Gamera, there is an interesting back-story regarding the tiny little sight. It is about the size of the head of a straight pin. There were two in the kit and it takes about 30 seconds to form the sight an another 60 seconds to glue it on the gun. Most of that is just opening and closing the glue bottle. But it took me three hours to find them on my work space after I dropped them. I must have drop them 17 times and finely I decided they weren't worth the effort. Then while I was taking a break I saw one and lost it again, then I found the other one. In the end I only recovered one of the two, but I got it done.

Now the question; why in the world would someone design something for scale modelers you need X5 magnification to form? But more important why would any sane person bother to use it, myself included? Some times I think the people who design PE layout forget what happens when it's reduced to 1/35 scale. Example: if an actual gun sight is 1/2 inch high and you reduce it to 1/35 scale the sight become .0143 inches high, or <1/64".

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 1:42 PM

Sergeant

Now the question; why in the world would someone design something for scale modelers you need X5 magnification to form? But more important why would any sane person bother to use it, myself included? Some times I think the people who design PE layout forget what happens when it's reduced to 1/35 scale. Example: if an actual gun sight is 1/2 inch high and you reduce it to 1/35 scale the sight become .0143 inches high, or <1/64".

Harold

 

the simple answer is... because you’re a madman... 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 1:49 PM

stikpusher

 

 
Sergeant

Now the question; why in the world would someone design something for scale modelers you need X5 magnification to form? But more important why would any sane person bother to use it, myself included? Some times I think the people who design PE layout forget what happens when it's reduced to 1/35 scale. Example: if an actual gun sight is 1/2 inch high and you reduce it to 1/35 scale the sight become .0143 inches high, or <1/64".

Harold

 

 

 

the simple answer is... because you’re a madman... 

 

You're right!

  • Member since
    July 2019
  • From: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posted by Bobstamp on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 6:35 PM

I served in South Vietnam from January 28 to March 5, 1966. I was a Navy hospital corpsman assigned to the Marine Corps' 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Division. I hadn't planned on such a short tour of duty — 37 days — but in Operation Utah, a sniper shattered my right femur, a wound which gave me a free ticket home and more than 10 months in the Navy's Balboa Hospital in San Diego.

A few days after our amphibious landing in South Vietnam, I encountered an Ontos, which I had never heard of at that time. Here's a photo, taken with my Nikonos I under water/all-weather camera, which I had bought specifically for Vietnam:

A U.S. Marine Corps Ontos in South Vietnam, January, 1966.

I talked briefly with one of the crew, probably the bare-headed guy. He told me that a day or so previously, they had fired all six of the 106mm recoilless rifles at the base of a pagoda, which promptly and not surprisingly collapsed. I guess we showed those Buddhists who was boss! 

Bob Ingraham

Vancouver

On the bench: A diorama to illustrate the crash of a Beech T-34B Mentor which I survived in 1962 (I'm using Minicraft's 1/48 model of the Mentor), and a Pegasus model of the submarine Nautilus of 20,000 Leagues Under the Seas fame. 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 6:58 PM

Bobstamp

I served in South Vietnam from January 28 to March 5, 1966. I was a Navy hospital corpsman assigned to the Marine Corps' 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Division. I hadn't planned on such a short tour of duty — 37 days — but in Operation Utah, a sniper shattered my right femur, a wound which gave me a free ticket home and more than 10 months in the Navy's Balboa Hospital in San Diego.

A few days after our amphibious landing in South Vietnam, I encountered an Ontos, which I had never heard of at that time. Here's a photo, taken with my Nikonos I under water/all-weather camera, which I had bought specifically for Vietnam:

A U.S. Marine Corps Ontos in South Vietnam, January, 1966.

I talked briefly with one of the crew, probably the bare-headed guy. He told me that a day or so previously, they had fired all six of the 106mm recoilless rifles at the base of a pagoda, which promptly and not surprisingly collapsed. I guess we showed those Buddhists who was boss! 

Bob Ingraham

Vancouver

 

Bob, thank you for sharing your ONTOS picture and story.

Harold

  • Member since
    October 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Friday, March 27, 2020 5:45 PM

Found this on youtube. You might find it interesting.

https://youtu.be/T0t-0l0Zv0I

Nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to do it.

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, March 29, 2020 3:52 AM

M60_ tanker

Found this on youtube. You might find it interesting.

https://youtu.be/T0t-0l0Zv0I

 

Thank you M60_tanker. I completed the interior painting and main weapon assembly. I have a few exterior details to finish and then it's ready for primer.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Sunday, March 29, 2020 5:13 PM

Nice! Those recoiless rifles look awesome!!!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, March 29, 2020 7:42 PM

Looks just about ready for primer and paint on the exterior. Are you going to weather and dirty up the interior?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, March 30, 2020 3:33 PM

stikpusher

Looks just about ready for primer and paint on the exterior. Are you going to weather and dirty up the interior?

 

Thank you Gamera and Carlos.

So the question is 'factory finish' or 'weathered, worn and rusted'. To make a scale model look realistic the current thinking amongst model builders is that it must have weathering. I agree with this trend and marvel at others skill in performing this process.

Personally, I like as little weathering as possible and still have the model look realistic; however, I understand the theme of a diorama or vignette may require more weathering, distress and even battle damage. I've ordered several Vallejo Wash colors to use on this model.

Harold

  • Member since
    October 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Monday, March 30, 2020 3:46 PM

I too, spent many years in the Army. Being anal retentive was part of the job. I try to keep weathering down to a mininum. Drives me crazy when I see a tank or other vehicle and it looks like it has just been drug out of a swap after 50 years. Especially M60 tanks. My bread and butter for 10 years of my life. Sorry for the rant.

Ray

Nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to do it.

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, March 30, 2020 3:49 PM

M60_ tanker

I too, spent many years in the Army. Being anal retentive was part of the job. I try to keep weathering down to a mininum. Drives me crazy when I see a tank or other vehicle and it looks like it has just been drug out of a swap after 50 years. Especially M60 tanks. My bread and butter for 10 years of my life. Sorry for the rant.

Ray

 

Ray it's nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, March 30, 2020 5:05 PM

I doubled the size of my paint booth in preparation for the next project. The ONTOS looks mighty small in this 33" Wide x 15" Deep space.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, April 6, 2020 4:33 PM

Sergeant

 

James (Snapdragonxxx) asked me to confirm with Captain Rae Seely, USMC that Vallejo color #71.013 (FS34052) is the correct shade of green for Vietnam era Marine Corp tactical vehicles. Captain Seely who served in an ONTOS unit in Hawaii and Vietnam confirmed #71.013 is the right color and mentioned once a vehicle was in combat it never looked the same.

One of the reasons is a 'Marine Corp wash' was done with diesel fuel not soap and water and the original factory color was made darker by the diesel fuel. Also the ONTOS had light armor and was often hidden in the jungle and used to ambush the North Viet Cong, so according to Captain Seely it received a lot of wear and tear on the exterior paint.

One other thing I noticed while showing Rae the photographs Carlos (Stikpusher) provided is the inside of the doors and hatches were painted the same as the exterior. As Rae indicated the ONTOS was often hidden in the foliage to ambush the North Viet Cong and a white hatch cover that was opened would stand out in the jungle.

I also received the Vallejo Model Wash colors I ordered: #76.518 Black, #76.514 Dark Brown, #76.523 European Dust, #76.521 Oiled Earth, #76.513 Marron Brown, #76.505 Light Rust and #76.522 Desert Dust. I picked these colors thinking they would give me a good range to start from in weathering the ONTOS. So the next step is to dirty up the interior a little then glue the upper and lower hulls together.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, April 10, 2020 7:37 PM

I gave the white interior a light pin-wash with Vallejo #76.514 Dark Brown. I'm not sure how dirty to make the interior but looking at the interior through the open hatches and doors it seems about right to me for a combat vehicle at rest.

I have also decided to finish the model with all hatches and doors opened, so the interior can be seen from every direction. I will place at least one Marine figure alongside the ONTOS to help show how small the vehcle actually is compared to a man.

The next step is to mask off the hatches and doors, glue the upper and lower hulls together and attach the rear doors. Then attach mud flaps to the rear fenders.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, April 10, 2020 7:44 PM

Looking great.  With all the detail you added on the interior, you have to show it all opened up.  Looking forward to seeing it all painted up.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:09 PM

HeavyArty

Looking great.  With all the detail you added on the interior, you have to show it all opened up.  Looking forward to seeing it all painted up.

 

Thank you, Gino for the support. Finally, after five weeks of assembly and interior painting I'm ready for exterior primer. I have the hull glued together and the openings masked off. I'll give the hull two or three light coats of Vallejo #74.601 Grey Surface Primer. I want to avoid paint build up to preserve the detail provided by all the photo-etched parts.

Harold

 

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Sunday, April 12, 2020 2:30 PM

I've just been watching the development of this project from the sidelines. Awesome work so far! Semper Fi.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Sunday, April 12, 2020 5:27 PM

Looking Good, Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, April 12, 2020 5:36 PM

TigerII

I've just been watching the development of this project from the sidelines. Awesome work so far! Semper Fi.

 

Thank you James and Tiger II. I completed the third and final coat of Vallejo #74.601 Grey Surface Primer this morning. I'll give it 24 hours to dry and then I'm ready to start the finish coat of Vallejo #71.013 Yellow Olive.

As you know I told Captain Rae Seely I was doing this model as a gift for him. He asked me to dedicate it to a man in his company, Corporal Robert G. Bosquet, AC Company, 3rd AT Battalion, 3rd Marines who was killed in battle on August 18, 1965.

I have located the official emblem for the 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines but I'm not sure how to locate either a pin or make an image that can be transferred to a dedication plaque. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Fortunately, the ONTOS kit has a decal for the 3rd Marine Division, but not the 3rd Marine Regiment or Battalion.

Also, it's time to start thinking about how to display the ONTOS. As I mentioned before I plan to have some ground cover and possibly a small tree with a Marine standing next to the ONTOS in the display. I selected a glass dome with an oak base that measures 8" x 8", please see below. The interior of the dome is 7.75" wide by 7.75" high. The dome begins to arch at approximately 4.75". The ONTOS model is 4.5" long by 3 inches wide by 5" high at the top of the antenna. The turntable I use for painting is 7.5" diameter.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, April 13, 2020 12:38 AM

I located the correct unit pin for the 3rd Battalion, of the 3rd Marines and ordered it from SGT GRIT online. I will find a way to incorporate the pin in the display. The next task is to find a suitable Marine figure to stand next to the ONTOS.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, April 13, 2020 11:24 AM

Oh she looks fantastic all primed and ready. And that's going to be a very cool display. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Monday, April 13, 2020 12:44 PM

I have located the official emblem for the 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines but I'm not sure how to locate either a pin or make a image that can be transferred to a dedication plaque. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Fortunately, the ONTOS kit has a decal for the 3rd Marine Division, but not the 3rd Marine Regiment.

I was just going to tell you that Sgt Grit had the pin you were looking for. I'm glad you found it.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, April 13, 2020 9:57 PM

Thank you Gamera and TigerII. This project has been a lot of fun.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 4:44 AM

Hi Harold.

I think that with your choice of display case you should keep it very simple. Just polish the interior base and leave it the natural polished wood, put the Ontos in along with the pin (fixed) and then the top on.

 

Forget any grass, tree, Marine figure. This makes the Ontos and the pin the focal point along with any dedication and shines a light on an unusual vehicle.

Just MHO, mate!

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 4:21 PM

snapdragonxxx

Hi Harold.

I think that with your choice of display case you should keep it very simple. Just polish the interior base and leave it the natural polished wood, put the Ontos in along with the pin (fixed) and then the top on.

 

Forget any grass, tree, Marine figure. This makes the Ontos and the pin the focal point along with any dedication and shines a light on an unusual vehicle.

Just MHO, mate!

 

I gave thought to your suggestion James and realized there is a difference between a model used in a diorama and a model used to commemorate a fallen warrior. I ordered the dome mentioned above and when it arrives, I will see how much room I have. I think you're right; it should be kept simple to focus attention on the purpose of the display. That being Corporal Bosquet and the ONTOS unit.

I intend to have a brass plaque made like the one shown below that will say: Presented to Captain Rae Seely USMC in memory of Corporal Robert G. Bosquet, AC Company, 3rd AT Battalion, 3rd Marines killed in action August 18, 1965. The plaque will need to be approximately 1.5" x 5" (two lines of text) so I have room for the unit pin at the end or below the plaque.

I have put two light coats of Vallejo #71.013 Yellow Olive on the model and expect to apply another two coats. Then I may need to use my air brush to get into some tight places on the hull detail.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 5:22 PM

Harold, I see your point and intent, but still think a lone Marine figure in a nice 8-point hat would be acceptable as a tribute to Corporal Bosquet and show the miniscule size of Ontos.  I have done tribute models both ways and find the ones with a figure are more appreciated by the recipient.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 7:24 PM

HeavyArty

Harold, I see your point and intent, but still think a lone Marine figure in a nice 8-point hat would be acceptable as a tribute to Corporal Bosquet and show the miniscule size of Ontos.  I have done tribute models both ways and find the ones with a figure are more appreciated by the recipient.

 

Gino, below is the Marine figure I ordered for this ONTOS model. When it arrives, I will be able to see how everything is going to fit together. There is a little problem with this figure though, perhaps Verlinden was not sure what an 8-point cover looks like. I think the cover can be made to look more like a Vietnam era Marine with a little putty.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 8:38 PM

That hat does look a little off.  I built an 8-point cap a while ago using small pieces of flat sheet styrene placed around a regular patrol cap with some putty to smooth it all out.  It made a pretty convincing 8-point cap.  I placed it on a Marine who went alongside the AFV Club LVTP-5 with a full scratch interior.  The piece was a present for my wife's uncle who was an LVTP-5 driver in his younger years.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
Posted by GlennH on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:52 PM
Just stunning work! I would have loved to have seen one of these beasts. Must not been around anyplace I was at or there just were not many deployed. I can just imaging riding that horse into town!

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:53 AM

looking just great, Harold.

When doing a memorial of someone to be presented to someone else a figure can bring to the surface repressed and quite often unwanted memories. As soldier veterans get older our ability to deal with these lessen. just the vehicle and the plaque and pin is all that is needed in this case. things can be overdone.

think about the KISS acronym.

Just my thoughts, Harold. It is your project, but that Yellow Olive is just right!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:34 AM

I always like a figure standing beside the vehicle to show off the size.

Never thought of it bringing out some form of post-tramatic stress James though I can see where you're coming from. 

 

In any case Harold I'm interested in where you'll take her. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, April 17, 2020 5:29 PM

I had an opportunity to meet with Captain Seely today and I asked him how Corporal Bosquet died. Rae said his Battalion deployed from Kane'ohe, Hawaii for operation Starlite in Vietnam and Corporal Bosquet was in Alpha Company, 3rd Anti-Tank Battalion, 3rd Marines. He was an ONTOS crew member and during battle dismounted the vehicle and stepped on a North Viet Cong IED, he was killed instantly.

I told Rae that we've been discussing in our forum whether or not to include a Marine figure in the display and Rae felt it would be enough to have a dedication plaque with the ONTOS model. He has a picture of the company in Hawaii with their ONTOS vehicles ready to deploy and Corporal Bosquet is in the photograph. I asked Rae if we could include the photograph and he thought that would be a good idea, but it's to large for the dome, so the glass dome will be displayed with the company photograph in a frame.

We also agreed that my ONTOS and his company photograph will be on display at our American Legion Post in Vancouver, Washington. Our Post was established in 1919 by World War One veterans and still has 481 members after 101 years. The majority of our veterans are Marine and Army and we have military artifacts from all the major wars including a World War One howitzer.

Below is the ONTOS in it's finished USMC green. I have a little more touch up to do before I remove the masking. Also the glass dome and unit pin should arrive next week, so I can see how large to make the brass dedication plaque.

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2019
  • From: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posted by Bobstamp on Friday, April 17, 2020 6:53 PM

While it's true that flashbacks can result from any number of stimuli, even we veterans can't be sure what might result in our next flashback, much less anyone else's. My wife, who teaches fitness to older adults, was told when she was training that she should never play "sad songs" that might remind her students of loved ones who have passed.

My wife was quite troubled by that advice — she is a very empathetic person who would never knowingly cause emotional pain for anyone. But she decided that she cannot possibly know what song might be considered sad by her students, and decided to continue playing songs that best fit the exercises she is using. I get that.

I once went straight to fight-or-flight when I saw a guy carrying an M16 across the street in front of my apartment. That's a bit odd, because I never saw an M16 in Vietnam. I was a hospital corpsman serving with the Marines early in 1966, and the Marines were using M14s. In addition, I soon realized that the M16 I saw was a toy M16, about half the size of a real one.

My PTSD has also been triggered by a Vietnamese "peasant" wearing a conical straw hat in a style show that one of my Vietnamese students had invited me to, and by a scene in the TV show, Magnum P.I. But it would be pointless, and fruitless, for me to try to avoid seeing military rifles, black pyjamas and straw hats, and TV programs in case they trigger me. Fortunately, I've had enough psychotherapy to at least understand why I am so easily triggered, and what steps I can take to avoid the worst outcomes.

At the same time, if you are planning to give a military model to a veteran, it behooves you to try to determine from the veteran himself or herself, or from a family member, whether the gift might result in an unplanned outcome. Family members usually have a good sense of how trauma has affected their loved ones, and what gifts might be inappropriate. A gift I certainly would not want would be a diorama showing Marines in the middle of a firefight. Been there, done that, don't ever want to do it again!

It's also worth noting that the human mind is capable of great plasticity. I am currently building an Italeri UH-34 D Seahorse helicopter like the ones that ferried me into battle, out of battle, and to a hospital ship. No flashbacks, at least so far. Maybe if I make it sufficiently detailed…

Bob

P.S. Please do not thank me for my service. I didn't actually volunteer to go to Vietnam. I joined the Navy not even aware that hospital corpsmen could be seconded to the Marines. And, like most Americans at that time, I had no idea that what seemed like a minor guerrilla war in Southeast Asia would blow up into the Vietnam War. I did, however, believe in our mission, at least for a few days. I soon realized that nothing positive could come out of the war; I was fortunate to be badly wounded after only 37 days, while I was trying to care for a badly wounded Marine.  

Tags: Vietnam War , gift , PTSD

On the bench: A diorama to illustrate the crash of a Beech T-34B Mentor which I survived in 1962 (I'm using Minicraft's 1/48 model of the Mentor), and a Pegasus model of the submarine Nautilus of 20,000 Leagues Under the Seas fame. 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, April 17, 2020 7:36 PM

Bob, Gamera, James, Glenn, TigerII, Carlos and Gino thank you all for giving this project so much attention and sharing your feelings and ideas. As you know I started out to give my close friend a diorama and it turned into a memorial to a fallen warrior that has much deeper meaning for Rae than I could have ever imagined.

As Bob and James so correctly stated above, we never know how someone will react to memories of the past. Within my circle of veteran friends some guys don't mind talking about their war experience and others don't want to talk about their service at all and yet they want to spend time with fellow veterans who understand what war is like. I want to show how small the model is compared to a man, but feel Rae is focused on honoring his men, which is the way I would want my commander to feel about the men who served under him.

Bob, please take a look at the picture below. Is that you in the middle top row? If so I'm standing to your left at the end of the top row.

  • Member since
    July 2019
  • From: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posted by Bobstamp on Friday, April 17, 2020 10:23 PM

@Sergeant:

Sergeant
…Bob, please take a look at the picture below. Is that you in the middle top row? If so I'm standing to your left at the end of the top row.

Well, it is a small world, but not quite that small! I had to do a double take, but no, that's not my group of recruit petty officers. I was in boot camp in San Diego a few months before you, in Company 558, graduating in December, 1962. I didn't actually leave the Recruit Training Center until mid- to late-January; I chose to go on leave for Christmas and had to return to boot camp for two or three more weeks before heading for Hospital Corps School at Balboa Naval Hospital.

Here's my photo. I’m in the centre of the second row from the top:

Bob Ingraham and fellow Navy boot camp recruit petty officers

I'm one of those Vietnam vets who can't stop talking about the war! For years — decades! — I believed that my only wound was physical (through-and-through bullet wound that shattered my right femur), but insomnia, anger issues, anxiety, and digestion problems sent me to my doctor, who suggested that I see a psychiatrist, who diagnosed combat-related PTSD. I applied for compensation, and within a month or so my disability rating was raised from 20% to 40%. That extra income has helped a great deal — it's helped a lot to buy a lot of useful modelling tools and supplies. Thank you American tax payers!

Bob 

 

On the bench: A diorama to illustrate the crash of a Beech T-34B Mentor which I survived in 1962 (I'm using Minicraft's 1/48 model of the Mentor), and a Pegasus model of the submarine Nautilus of 20,000 Leagues Under the Seas fame. 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, April 18, 2020 12:51 AM

Tonight, I discovered an important issue with the pictures I post on this forum. Please see Set-A and Set-B below: Set-B is closer to what I see with my eyes, or slightly darker. Set-A is lighter and grayer in appearance and that is because of LED lighting I've been using for the last six months. Set-B is with no ambient light only camera flash.

Set-A

Set-B

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, April 18, 2020 1:30 AM

A truly remarkable and interesting conversation among people whom I greatly respect.

I might suggest that everyone's ideas about what t0 include have so much value.

Maybe a multi media display with a model, a plaque with a QR code and a linked facebook page?

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, April 18, 2020 8:55 PM

Sergeant

 

 

There is a little problem with this figure though

 

Harold

 

Back view:

You would want a lot of putty to square up the back of that cover.

Also, the figure is scuplted with the cotton M-56 gear (and the extermely rare 20 round magazine ammo pouches).  And the M-56 "butt" back, too, being an issue.
USMC jumped from their cotton M-61 782 gear to the nylon LINCOE gear (M-67) right at 1968 or so.

Francois was an incredible entrepeneur, but, not always the best historian.  Title this figure as US Army PFC, Vietnam, and most of the sins vanish.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, April 19, 2020 12:34 AM

That figure would be fine for later in the war. But yes, that is an Army hat, not the Marine Corps type. Also in summer 1965, I’m pretty sure that the Marines were still wearing the standard sateen cotton fatigues, and not the not the lighter poplin Jungle Fatigues. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, April 19, 2020 4:23 AM

CapnMac82 and Carlos, you guys really know your gear. I received this so called Marine figure today in the mail and it didn't look right to me either, but I had no clue what was off except the 8-point cover. Carols you're also right about the P56 uniform material. As a side note one of my veteran friends still has his P53 USMC Herringbone twill shirt issued after Korea that he wore in the early days of Vietnam.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Sunday, April 19, 2020 12:44 PM

Bob: As I've said before I've never been the military much less shot at. Thanks, for your advice. 

Harold: She looks good, as I said before and I'll say again that's some really nice work on the recoiless rifles. Looking forward to any washes or other detailing you add.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, April 19, 2020 2:55 PM

Thank you Gamera.

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Sunday, April 19, 2020 11:18 PM

Your build turned out great!

Please show us a final photo with the glass cover and dedication plaque. 

Ben

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 8:09 PM

DRUMS01

Your build turned out great!

Please show us a final photo with the glass cover and dedication plaque. 

Ben

 

Thank you, Ben. The glass dome arrived without damage, but it looks too big for the ONTOS. Originally, I planned to have some ground cover, a single tree, and a Marine figure next to the ONTOS. Then my friend wanted to make this a memorial to a man he served with who was killed in Vietnam. So, I decided to leave the ground cover, tree, and Marine figure out, just have the Division pin and a brass plaque dedication. But I did not down-size the glass dome.

So I have a few options: I can order a smaller glass dome, 5.5" x 5.5" with the same type of oak base, or change the style of display case altogether, or I can add some ground cover and a tree with the Division pin and brass plaque in the existing 8" dome. Or another option is to add some ground cover, a tree and a Marine figure in the existing glass dome and make the company picture the focus of dedication by putting a brass plaque on the picture frame.

I should explain that today my friend told me the picture of his company with their ONTOS is 36" long x 12" high. I suggested we mount it in an oak frame to match the glass dome base and he liked that idea, but a small dome will be dwarfed by the large picture. Also, I had planned to weather the exterior of the ONTOS since I gave the interior a pin-wash to dirty it up a bit. So, I think it would look better to have ground cover and a tree with weathered paint. I don't know it's getting complicated.

Look how dark the ONTOS appears in the glass dome, it is almost black... I believe that is a combination of LED lighting and the shape of the dome - weird! The last photograph below is with camera flash only and is the actual color of the ONTOS. However, when you look at the ONTOS through lens of the camera the camera sees the effect of blown glass that my eyes really don't see. I do not plan to use the Division patch shown in this photographs below, but I ordered the patch just because I like the style.

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 3:38 AM

The glass dome is confusing the camera firmware. If you use Mk 1 Eyeball and it looks right then it is.

I think that the size of the case is just fine especially when the brass plaque is done. This looks great and the KISS acronym works every time. Rather than the pin, could you get that engraved onto the plaque?

Just a thought.

 

Just the tracks now. Looking great there my friend!

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 4:15 AM

snapdragonxxx

The glass dome is confusing the camera firmware. If you use Mk 1 Eyeball and it looks right then it is.

I think that the size of the case is just fine especially when the brass plaque is done. This looks great and the KISS acronym works every time. Rather than the pin, could you get that engraved onto the plaque?

Just a thought.

 

Just the tracks now. Looking great there my friend!

 

So, I showed what I have to my wife and she agrees with James less is more in this situation. However, we agreed I would order a smaller glass dome to see how it looks and whichever dome I do not use she will keep for a model lighthouse.

This new dome has a solid wood base with a nice matte finish. The dome shown below is 5.5" diameter x 5.5" high. The interior dimensions are 5.4" wide x 5.125" high. The ONTOS model is 4.5" long x 3" wide x 5" high at the top of the antenna. There should be room for a dedication plaque and a pin on the side. This would place the ONTOS side profile facing the front which in my opinion is its best feature.

I will investigate having the Division emblem etched into the brass plaque when it is time to order. I will also find out if a plaque can be made with a curve shape to match the radius of the base. Another detail is the frame for Rae's company photograph. I will be the one providing the frame and black, walnut or oak is fine with him.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:25 AM

I like it! It looks fine but yeah a slightly smaller dome would probably look even better. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:45 PM

Gamera

I like it! It looks fine but yeah a slightly smaller dome would probably look even better. 

 

Thank you Gamera.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:34 PM

Harold: I think I'd use a dark brown for a wash - sorta a van  D y k e  brown. James or someone else here might have better advice though.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:14 PM

Gamera

Harold: I think I'd use a dark brown for a wash - sorta a van  D y k e  brown. James or someone else here might have better advice though.

 

Gamera, I have limited selection of dark Vallejo model wash: Dark Brown, Marron Brown, European Dust, Oiled Earth and Black. I am not familiar with VanDyke Brown, but perhaps one of the dark washes I have will be similar?

I removed the masking from the hatches and doors and added decals, so I am ready to do the pin-wash tomorrow. The third and fourth photographs below are taken with better lighting and hopefully look more like the USMC green.

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:38 PM

The green looks good to my eyes in these photos Sarge. 

VanDyke Brown is a dark brown similar to Burnt Umber, but a bit darker I would say, a great color for pin washes. It’s an artists oil color. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:53 PM

Van *** Brown is mostly red/ yellow and some black. Kind of, umm, well, follow the dog outside.

The CMYK coords are 0, 21, 31, 73. No blue, red, yellow and black. 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:07 AM

Somewhere from here to there... or as GM suggests, depends upon what the dog eats...

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:02 AM

In other words the color of dog poo?

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:11 AM

KISS

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:13 AM

Looking really nice.  The color and decals look good so far.  A wash should bring up the details well.  

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:34 AM

Personally I like AK Interactive's dark brown wash for olive drab vehicles. I've tried mixing my own wash but it's a pain getting it exactly the right thickness and it won't store well. The AK product is pre-mixed and ready to go, which to me is worth the cost. 

Sorry, I wasn't sure what you wanted to use- so I just suggested van D y k e Brown since you can just look it up online to get the right colour. But yeah- dog poo is pretty close. Stick out tongue

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, April 25, 2020 8:21 PM

Thank you GMorrison, Carlos, James, Gino and Gamera.

I gave the ONTOS a pin-wash with Vallejo #76.518 Black. I tried several colors and combinations of color and found the dark USMC green does not allow the Vallejo Model Wash to be seen very well unless it is nearly back. However, the black wash did exactly what I wanted on the 106 mm gun barrels.

If the photographs below look right for color and pin-wash I will seal the paint and decals with Vallejo #70.520 Matt Varnish, or #70.522 Satin Varnish.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, April 26, 2020 1:23 AM

She’s looking better and better Sarge! Very nicely done!

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, April 27, 2020 5:37 PM

I've had mixed results with black washes on olive drab equipment but she looks great! I can't argue with your results!!!

Nice work!!! Yes

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, April 27, 2020 7:58 PM

Gamera

I've had mixed results with black washes on olive drab equipment but she looks great! I can't argue with your results!!!

Nice work!!!

 

Thank you Carlos and Gamera. I was really starting to get concerned when the dark brown washes I tried did not show up very well. And when the gun barrels turned out near perfect grey-black using a heavy application of Vallejo Black wash over Yellow Olive paint it convinced me the Vallejo Wash simply takes more applications on the darker colors.

The next step is to remove the tracks and give the ONTOS a good coat of clear Satin Varnish to seal the paint, wash and decals. If it turns out to shinny then I will give it a light coat of Matt Varnish to take the shine off.

While I have the tracks removed I'll give them a coat of Vallejo Tyre Black to take the shine off the rubber and Vallejo Rust to dirty them up a bit. I'm waiting for the smaller glass dome to arrive on Thursday then I can decide what size to have a brass plaque made.

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2008
Posted by Est.1961 on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 2:08 AM

Thoroughly enjoyed your build Harold, along with the contributions and anecdotes from the other guys has had me glued. No pun intended

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:51 AM

Est.1961

Thoroughly enjoyed your build Harold, along with the contributions and anecdotes from the other guys has had me glued. No pun intended

 

Thank you, Est.1961. It has been my pleasure to share this build and the background with our Forum members.

Harold

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 1:52 PM

Nicely done Sarge. IMO I'd stay with the matte varnish to avoid any extra work if there is a shine from the satin varnish. Vietnam vet Marines will definitely love this.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 5:37 PM

TigerII

Nicely done Sarge. IMO I'd stay with the matte varnish to avoid any extra work if there is a shine from the satin varnish. Vietnam vet Marines will definitely love this.

 

Thank you TigerII. I agree, matte varnish only - good advice!

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, May 1, 2020 4:51 AM

I received the new display dome today and confirmed the ONTOS does fit under the glass, please see the first photograph below. Then I determined how the Division pin and dedication plaque should be located. I created temporary paper plaques to use for illustration and to send to the supplier. There will be two brass plaques with black lettering: one in memory of Corporal Bosquet on the front of the base and one to Captain Seely underneath the base as shown in photographs below.

Harold

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Friday, May 1, 2020 5:39 AM

I love the way you've decided to display this excellent build, Harold!

Beautiful work on this kit!

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, May 1, 2020 9:44 AM

Yeah, that looks fantastic!!! 

And I love how you worked in the pin and the plaque. Looks forward to seeing how you work in the finished brass parts when you get them back! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Friday, May 1, 2020 4:03 PM

looks great Harold. It looks just fantastic!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, May 2, 2020 1:05 AM

Beautiful Simplicity. The perfect tribute.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
Posted by Est.1961 on Saturday, May 2, 2020 4:52 PM

Great looking finish. 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:02 PM

Thank you Mike, Gamera, James, Carlos and EST.1961 for your encouragement, suggestions and advice. I emailed a picture of the near finished project to my friend and told him I would bring it over to his house and leave it on the porch when the brass plaques arrive. We are still in lockdown here in Washington State, so I have been at home nearly three months only leaving to pick up groceries. Even that is done by calling in an order and have the grocery clerk put them in the back of my vehicle.

When I deliver the glass dome I will pick up the photograph of Captain Seely's ONTOS Company and share it with you on this Forum to complete the project. As I mentioned earlier we decided to display the ONTOS and Company photograph together at our American Legion Post, but that is closed too for at least the rest of May.

Model builders are really fortunate at this difficult time to have a hobby we can work on at home and where most of our suppliers still have online service to take orders and ship things we need. Even so, it will be good to have some kind of normal life again when this pandemic is under control.

Harold

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Sunday, May 3, 2020 3:39 PM

Excellent display! 

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, May 4, 2020 2:52 AM

TigerII

Excellent display! 

 

Thank you TigerII

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, May 4, 2020 7:55 PM

Originally, I was going to glue the rubber tracks to the wood base, that was before I decided to put my presentation plaque (Proof #1) on the bottom of the base. My concern is that when someone attempts to turn the display over to look at the plaque the tracks may allow the ONTOS to move or even come unglued.

To solve this potential problem, I decided to drill two 1/16" holes in the bottom of the ONTOS that will be hidden in the engine compartment and glue two metal pins made of heavy clothes hanger material in the holes. These pins would then be glued into two holes in the 3/4" thick wood base to insure the ONTOS cannot move.

Before I start drilling holes in something that has taken months to build, I decided to ask for suggestions or confirmation of what I am planning to do. One other consideration is the ONTOS model is much heavier than it looks because of the resin plastic interior floor and bulkheads that are 1/4" thick.

Also, I accepted the proofs shown below to have brass plaques made and the supplier notified me today they are ready to ship priority mail from California. I should have them by Friday this week.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:59 PM

I repainted the wood base with Vallejo #71.057 Black, anchored the ONTOS to the base with two 1/16" metal pins so it can not move. Glued down the 3rd Anti-Tank Battalion, 3rd Marine Division pin and a 3rd Marine Vietnam Theatre of War pin. All that remains to be done is mount the brass plaques which should arrive on Friday and then seal the glass dome in a bead of clear silicon caulking.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:09 AM

It turned out really nice.  Great job on it.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:24 AM

That looks perfect!!! I'm sure the recipent is going to love it!!! Heart

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:44 PM

Outstanding work on a fitting tribute.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, May 8, 2020 6:55 PM

Thank you, Gino, Gamera and Templar1099. This has been a fun project and I have learned a great deal.

The brass plaques are installed and other than sealing the glass dome with silicon caulking the only remaining step is to deliver this display to Captain Seely. As mentioned before Captain Seely has a picture of his ONTOS Company that I will post for you to see when its available.

I want to thank all the Armor Forum members who helped me through this project. The ONTOS is unique in Marine Corps history, but it became secondary as I learned more about Corporal Bosquet and the brave men he served with in Vietnam. I am thankful most of us will never face death the way so many of our young men did in the jungles and rice paddies of southeast Asia.

Harold

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:45 PM

This lockdown is getting a touch  annoying in some respects, but I'm out running my son to work, getting groceries, and generally taking it easy. I'm glad they've finally opened up the parks. Me and the fam need to get into the woods for a bit.

Washington is a gorgeous state and I'm usually a proud resident. Not too happy with the governor right now, but not too many are.

Still, you can't complain about the low amount of traffic! 

Which VFW are you with, Harold? I may have to see this build in person. Maybe donate some of my builds?

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:46 PM

M. Brindos
Which VFW are you with, Harold? I may have to see this build in person. Maybe donate some of my builds?
 

I'm not a member of the VFW, but I am a member of American Legion, Smith-Reynold Post 14 on St. James Street in Vancouver. We too are shut down until the Governor gives us permission to reopen, but when we do open you are very welcome to join us for dinner, lunch or whatever you like.

Harold

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:53 PM

That sounds like a good time to me, Harold. I'm up in Tumwater and I have a brother in Portland. 

I might have to figure something out in the future. I don't get many opportunities to visit with fellow model enthusiasts. It's a rare thing to talk shop with anyone besides my Dad lol.

I'd enjoy that very much.

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:13 PM

She turned out great, beautiful job!!! Heart

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, May 16, 2020 12:41 AM

Gamera

She turned out great, beautiful job!!!

 

Thank you Gamera. As promised, I have uploaded Captain Seely's ONTOS Company photograph from 1963. This was taking while the Company was still in Hawaii. They later deployed to Vietnam as part of Operation Starlight.

17–24 August 1965
Operation Starlite was the first offensive military action conducted by the U.S. Marines during the Vietnam War and the first purely American operation.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Saturday, May 16, 2020 7:56 AM

Wow! That turned out amazing! Unique vehicle that I have not seen much about. Great job!

 Bruce

 

 On the bench:  1/48 Eduard MiG-21MF

                        1/35 Takom Merkava Mk.I

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Saturday, May 16, 2020 8:30 AM

Oh! Good Gosh !

      I hope you haven't delivered it yet. I learned that even something small like that needs a breathing hole somewhere in the base. Otherwise bad things can happen. Believe me I learned this from a Display Builder in the T.A.P. Plastics store in Concord,Ca. years ago.

       I was told that things in cases need to " Breathe" as the Humidity and Temp changes in an environment. Even if it's plastic models!

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:46 AM

Thank you Bruce.

Tanker-Builder
I was told that things in cases need to " Breathe" as the Humidity and Temp changes in an environment. Even if it's plastic models

Tanker-Builder, I didn't know that, but it makes good sense and will be easy to do too. I can drill a 1/16" hole in the wood base under the model where it can't be seen and the wood base has three cork pads under it that will allow air in and out of the display case. Thank you for a little pearl of wisdom.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:15 PM

Below are actual photographs of the 3rd Anti-Tank Battalion during the Vietnam War. The first photograph is a wave of amphibious landing craft heading for Chu Lai beachhead on June 24, 1965.

Chu Lai Landing

Con Thien Fire Mission 1968

https://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=Con+Thien+Fire+Mission+1968&client=firefox-b-1-m&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig5uH8tsTpAhVSgp4KHWJSCBwQsAR6BAgGEAE&biw=1261&bih=810&dpr=2

 

The Marines of 3rd Anti-Tank Battalion called themselves the 3rd AT's which is interesting because the ONTOS was never used as an Anti-Tank weapon by the Marines in the Vietnam War. From what I have been told it was a search-and-destroy weapon the Marines used to ambush the NVA. The NVA called the ONTOS a 'devil' and if they saw it coming would avoid contact.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:34 PM

Awesome job.  Looks fantastic.  Such an interesting vehicle.  I want one.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:18 AM

Harold: Thanks for sharing the photos. Very interesting vehicle, and it's fascinating to see it 'in action' so to speak. God bless those guys who served. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, June 25, 2020 3:45 PM

keavdog

Awesome job.  Looks fantastic.  Such an interesting vehicle.  I want one.

 

Thank you, John, and Gamera. I have a message from Captain Rae Seely I want to share with our Forum. Rae has shown the American Legion the ONTOS display that many of you helped me build. He also shared it with Lynn Terry who was the Platoon Commander of Corporal Bousquet in Vietnam and the officer who notified Robert's parents when he was killed in 1965. Mr. Terry is now on the Board of the National Museum of the Marine Corps near Quantico, Virginia and would like to have the ONTOS dedication model to display. Of course I told Rae yes, I am honored to have it on display and want to thank our members for helping me complete the project.

Harold

National Museum of the Marine Corps: https://www.usmcmuseum.com/

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Saturday, June 27, 2020 4:13 AM

Outstanding, Harold. You hit everything just right! Happy to help with the paints, my friend.

Getting a build into a museum is not easy, and a national one too! Much Kudos to you Harold. This is not just a feather in your cap, but a full Ostrich!!!!

Have you been following my V-2 build? Would be interested in your thoughts.

 

 

James

Known occasionally as "Snap the Mad"

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, June 27, 2020 9:30 AM

Congratulations on having your build noticed and requested to be displayed at the Marine Corps museum Harold. It is a well deserved honor. You did a super job on it, and a project of this sort truly belongs in such a place. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, June 27, 2020 10:11 AM

Congratulations, Harold!

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, June 27, 2020 3:31 PM

snapdragonxxx

Outstanding, Harold. You hit everything just right! Happy to help with the paints, my friend.

Getting a build into a museum is not easy, and a national one too! Much Kudos to you Harold. This is not just a feather in your cap, but a full Ostrich!!!!

 

Thank you, James, Carlos, and Bill. As you know I'm somewhat new to modeling, so I had no idea what a big deal it is to have a model displayed in a museum. I realize it was more of who Captain Seely knows than anything I did but thank you for your kind words of support. I am pleased that people like the display.

Few if any of our members know that James and I started talking about this project 4 months ago and sent no less than 50 messages back and forth in a 30-day period regarding the Marine Corps green paint. In the process we determined the Federal Standard FED-STD-595C had two possible colors for Marine Corps tactical vehicles, FS24052 and FS35052. It was later confirmed with USMC specifications that FS34052 was the correct color and that Vallejo #71.013 Yellow Olive was in fact FS35052. James also insisted that we confirm the Vallejo color with actual Vietnam Marine veterans, which I did with 100% results.

Thank you again for helping me with this project, it was both interesting and challenging.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, June 29, 2020 8:51 AM

Yeah congratulations! Quite an honour but you deserved it. Great show!!! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Monday, June 29, 2020 2:34 PM

This is a wonderful read and salutations to you for the well received accomplishment. 

Ben

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

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