DRUMS01

sprueman: So you obviously knew Graf.? Where was the 6/29th stationed during your time in Germany? When were you there? As an FDO you most likely also remember working up a Safety "T" for the safe firing zone while at Graf., am I correct? Did you ever lay a battery into a firing position? 

Sergeant: I am no expert on the M109 itself. I was around them all day, and had friends who commanded them. Sometimes we helped each other when possible so I know a little. I did get to fire an M110 a couple times (pulling the lanyard). My real time was in the FDC (M577), or BOC (5ton cmd. box). Recieving the call and training my men to proficiently and accurately calculate the firing data to put steel on target, that was my mission.

Stik is a good guy, recently retired and full of great military knowledge. From my time in this forum, he is one you can really rely on regarding information and authenticity.

As for modeling, I currently have two M109's, an M110, a M548, and a M577 in scale. Some day I want to build a hip-shoot diorama with a single gun. Back in the day that is how they trained to shoot tactical nukes as they leave a telling firing signature for counter battery fire.

Delta 35 this is Romeo 60, End of Mission. Three Tango 62 and 4 Bravo Mike Papa's burning, out. 

OK, I'm quiet now and my apologies for my rabbit trail on this wonderful build thread. From what I remember historically, this is looking to be an epic build of a M109. I am sitting back and watching this one develop.

v/r,

Ben

 

Thank you Sprueman.

Harold: Good to see all the running gear assembled and ready to go! 

HeavyArty

Yup, the original M109 was semi-gloss white on the interior.  Actually, all M109s have been and are still white on the inside.

 

Thank you Gamera, I plan to post some more progress pictures soon.

Harold

I started assembly of the Black Dog interior accessories set #T35101 by installing the PE deck plates and the ammo racks at the rear wheel wells. At the same, time I began assembly of the Friulmodel T-136 metal tracks #ATL-139.

The track assembly is aided by using my PE folding tool in a vice. I bore out the holes with a .5mm bit in a pin vice which is extremely easy to do. Then load the folding tool with 20 track links, insert the precut brass wire pins, add a bit of CA glue and trim the pins flush. Easy assembly procedure. It takes about a minute for the CA glue to get hard before I trim the pins flush. In the meantime I continue assembly of interior Black Dog resin parts.

Looks like you found a nice rhythm for the tracks, that's what it takes! 

Really interested in how the interior parts are going to go. 

Great tip for the track assembly - thanks! 

Thank you Gamera and Mike. I completed the Friulmodel T-136 track assembly and they fit the AFV Club M109A2 perfectly. I like the way they sag on the top from the weight of the tracks, it looks very realistic to me. I would highly recommend this product for appearance and ease of assembly.

The Black Dog kit is another matter. Let me say up front I have a 'love-hate' relationship with resin kits. I have used Black Dog, Verlinden, Legend, Hobby Fan and Tank Workshop. They are all fiddly and time consuming, but look great when painted.

The next step is to continue assembly of the interior, then primer and paint the interior base coat white and a black primer exterior for the tracks and lower hull shadow coat.

Harold

Those tracks look great! I too love that sag, looks perfect from here. 

Gamera

Those tracks look great! I too love that sag, looks perfect from here. 

 

I'm still working on the Black Dog interior kit for the M109A2. It is a lot more time consuming than I thought it would be at the start of this project. Every piece has its place, but many parts need to be trimmed and filed to make them look plumb and straight because the floor is not supported very well. If I do this again, I will create a subfloor to support the photo-etched deck plate.

I also received the new AFV Club M109 L23 kit, but it will need to wait until I finish the interior of the M109A2.

The interior is looking great.  Keep at it.

That interior is going to look good. 

Yeah, the interior is superb! 

I've done a few open-top AFVs like the M10 but nothing so elaborate- love how this is going just like your ONTOS. 

HeavyArty

The interior is looking great.  Keep at it.

 

The height of the steering wheel and column is determined by part #1 in the M109A2 kit which is all one large resin piece as shown in photograph #2 and #3. It looked strange to me while I was working on assembly, but I did not have reference material until yesterday. Which is my fault, because I know better than to start an interior assembly without supporting documentation.

The Black Dog instructions and photograph of the assembly did not say, or show anything about this issue and it only has one illistration of where to place the driver's periscopes. Please see photograph #5 and #6.

Yesterday I received the New Vanguard book by Steven J. Zaloga titled M109 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzer 1960-2005. On page 16 it shows a picture of the driver's controls. Please see photograph #7. So today I downloaded the TM 9-2350-311-10 Operator's Manual for Howitzers, Medium, Self-Propelled, 155mm M109A2, M109A3, M109A4, M109A5. Please see photograph #8.

At this point I think there are only three options: 1. Leave the driver's periscopes out of the build. 2. Remove the steering wheel and column, so there is space for the periscopes. 3 tear out the entire resin part #1 and remove the excess material to lower the steering wheel to about half the height it is now.

What do you think I should do?

Harold 

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

I haven't built it yet, but I would try removing the wedge-shaped piece under the steering shaft to try and lower it by making it more horizontal.  That may give you enough room for the other parts.

HeavyArty

I haven't built it yet, but I would try removing the wedge-shaped piece under the steering shaft to try and lower it by making it more horizontal.  That may give you enough room for the other parts.

 

Thank you Gino.

Looks good to me Harold, glad to see people here who are able to help out!

Gamera

Looks good to me Harold, glad to see people here who are able to help out!

 

Thank you Gino, your suggestion saved me from trying to remove part #1 which would have been a mess because it was really glued in good.

Harold

Hey Sergeant, good job on that steering column.

Looks good.  Good save.  I think that wedge part may have actually been part of the pour tab for the shaft and should not have been there at all.  If you look at the Black Dog pic you posted (below) it doesn't look like there is anything (no wedge) between the shaft and the base it sits on.

HeavyArty

Looks good.  Good save.  I think that wedge part may have actually been part of the pour tab for the shaft and should not have been there at all.  If you look at the Black Dog pic you posted (below) it doesn't look like there is anything (no wedge) between the shaft and the base it sits on.

 

Pictures of the actual controls; however, indicate some space between the periscopes and steering column, so I removed approximately 1/8" of material from under the wedge-shaped piece to allow a slight angle of the new brass steering column without touching the periscopes. The steering wheel has a shape that seems to require the steering column to have a slight downward angle. Please see finsihed steering column below.

Another benefit to modifying Part #1 in place is most of the changes will never be seen when the model is finished. Only the periscopes and steering wheel can be seen through an opened hatch. The steering column is hidden from view.

Thank you again, I appreciate your help.

Harold

Yes, the rotating band engages the lands and grooves when the round is seated in the breech and imparts spin like a rifle bullet to stabilize it.  The gromet protects the rotating band, since the band is soft metal (copper, I think).  It is removed as the round is being prepared to fire by the ammo crew.  The gromet must be off, or the round will not fit into the breech.  Also, the lifting plug is removed by the ammo crew and a fuze screwed into its place.  Without the fuze, the round will not function and will just burrow into the ground.

HeavyArty

Yes, the rotating band engages the lands and grooves when the round is seated in the breech and imparts spin like a rifle bullet to stabilize it.  The gromet protects the rotating band, since the band is soft metal (copper, I think).  It is removed as the round is being prepared to fire by the ammo crew.  The gromet must be off, or the round will not fit into the breech.  Also, the lifting plug is removed by the ammo crew and a fuze screwed into its place.  Without the fuze, the round will not function and will just burrow into the ground.

 

Harold

That shell is made of hardened steel, which is wanted to support the projectile when fired.  Which is not going to deform to fit the grooves and lands i nthe barrel liner.

The soultion is to pre-engrave a driving band and set it in a groove around the projectile.  The driving band can be of a softer material--various gilding metals like copper, cupronickle, and the like.

The driving band sometimes will have a limited-slip fit, so that it will engage the rifling, which then crushes the band into full contact with the shell.

But, that softness is also a weakness, so a protective band is supplied to allow for rougher handling as the rounds go from truck to tube.

Ships have a similar issue with separate-loading rifle ammunition, but the hoists and shell ways and ammunition-specific racks eliminate some of the protective gear.  (There was some competing theory on base up versus base down stowage, but that's not germane here.)

Thank you CapnMac82 for the information. I can see the need to protect the driving bands (rotating bands) on 155mm projectiles that weigh nearly 100 pounds.

Harold

CapnMac82

 

 

stikpusher

I’m rusty

 

 

And I feel fully oxidized.

This ought to be a good build, though.  109 deserves to be open, unless it's parked in a motorpool or lashed to a railcar.

 

Thank you, Bill. I completed assembly of the cab ammunition rack fully loaded with 155mm projectiles and the traversing mechanism. The traversing mechanism has a hand wheel for manual operation. These two pieces took a great deal of time to repair and clean because the parts were not molded very well.

The next step is the stowage rack for M3 propelling charges. There is a total of 32 rounds of ammunition stowed in a fully loaded M109A2.

Oh wow, great work there on the rack and the interior. The work cleaning it up was worth it- really nice detail there.

Gamera

Oh wow, great work there on the rack and the interior. The work cleaning it up was worth it- really nice detail there.

 

Gino, I have another technical question. I am working on the interior deck of the turret where the hydraulic power pack reservoir and filter assembly is located, please see photograph #1. The Black Dog instructions do not show the relationship of the hydraulic components to the shape of the turret, so with limited overhead space I'm wondering if the cover plate marked with a red arrow in photograph #2 is where the hydraulic power pack reservoir should be located? The cover plate is recessed as indicated with a red arrow in photograph #3 that would allow just enough head room for the hydraulic components.

Gamera, as an example of molding problems I had to rebuild the commanders seat shown in photograph #7 because the backrest was so thin you could see through the plastic and it just fell apart. In operation the backrest is folded down as shown in #6 to use as a platform when firing the machine gun. The backrest is mounted on a heavy metal plate that has a rim around the edge presumably to catch rainwater that drips in through an open commander's hatch. So, I salvaged what I could of the resin parts and made a new backrest out of styrene parts.

Harold

#1 

#2

#3

#4 Hydraulic components are not glued down yet.

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9