Looks good.  Good save.  I think that wedge part may have actually been part of the pour tab for the shaft and should not have been there at all.  If you look at the Black Dog pic you posted (below) it doesn't look like there is anything (no wedge) between the shaft and the base it sits on.

Hey Sergeant, good job on that steering column.

Gamera

Looks good to me Harold, glad to see people here who are able to help out!

 

Thank you Gino, your suggestion saved me from trying to remove part #1 which would have been a mess because it was really glued in good.

Harold

Looks good to me Harold, glad to see people here who are able to help out!

HeavyArty

I haven't built it yet, but I would try removing the wedge-shaped piece under the steering shaft to try and lower it by making it more horizontal.  That may give you enough room for the other parts.

 

Thank you Gino.

I haven't built it yet, but I would try removing the wedge-shaped piece under the steering shaft to try and lower it by making it more horizontal.  That may give you enough room for the other parts.

HeavyArty

The interior is looking great.  Keep at it.

 

The height of the steering wheel and column is determined by part #1 in the M109A2 kit which is all one large resin piece as shown in photograph #2 and #3. It looked strange to me while I was working on assembly, but I did not have reference material until yesterday. Which is my fault, because I know better than to start an interior assembly without supporting documentation.

The Black Dog instructions and photograph of the assembly did not say, or show anything about this issue and it only has one illistration of where to place the driver's periscopes. Please see photograph #5 and #6.

Yesterday I received the New Vanguard book by Steven J. Zaloga titled M109 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzer 1960-2005. On page 16 it shows a picture of the driver's controls. Please see photograph #7. So today I downloaded the TM 9-2350-311-10 Operator's Manual for Howitzers, Medium, Self-Propelled, 155mm M109A2, M109A3, M109A4, M109A5. Please see photograph #8.

At this point I think there are only three options: 1. Leave the driver's periscopes out of the build. 2. Remove the steering wheel and column, so there is space for the periscopes. 3 tear out the entire resin part #1 and remove the excess material to lower the steering wheel to about half the height it is now.

What do you think I should do?

Harold 

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

Yeah, the interior is superb! 

I've done a few open-top AFVs like the M10 but nothing so elaborate- love how this is going just like your ONTOS. 

That interior is going to look good. 

The interior is looking great.  Keep at it.

Gamera

Those tracks look great! I too love that sag, looks perfect from here. 

 

I'm still working on the Black Dog interior kit for the M109A2. It is a lot more time consuming than I thought it would be at the start of this project. Every piece has its place, but many parts need to be trimmed and filed to make them look plumb and straight because the floor is not supported very well. If I do this again, I will create a subfloor to support the photo-etched deck plate.

I also received the new AFV Club M109 L23 kit, but it will need to wait until I finish the interior of the M109A2.

Those tracks look great! I too love that sag, looks perfect from here. 

Thank you Gamera and Mike. I completed the Friulmodel T-136 track assembly and they fit the AFV Club M109A2 perfectly. I like the way they sag on the top from the weight of the tracks, it looks very realistic to me. I would highly recommend this product for appearance and ease of assembly.

The Black Dog kit is another matter. Let me say up front I have a 'love-hate' relationship with resin kits. I have used Black Dog, Verlinden, Legend, Hobby Fan and Tank Workshop. They are all fiddly and time consuming, but look great when painted.

The next step is to continue assembly of the interior, then primer and paint the interior base coat white and a black primer exterior for the tracks and lower hull shadow coat.

Harold

Great tip for the track assembly - thanks! 

Looks like you found a nice rhythm for the tracks, that's what it takes! 

Really interested in how the interior parts are going to go. 

I started assembly of the Black Dog interior accessories set #T35101 by installing the PE deck plates and the ammo racks at the rear wheel wells. At the same, time I began assembly of the Friulmodel T-136 metal tracks #ATL-139.

The track assembly is aided by using my PE folding tool in a vice. I bore out the holes with a .5mm bit in a pin vice which is extremely easy to do. Then load the folding tool with 20 track links, insert the precut brass wire pins, add a bit of CA glue and trim the pins flush. Easy assembly procedure. It takes about a minute for the CA glue to get hard before I trim the pins flush. In the meantime I continue assembly of interior Black Dog resin parts.

HeavyArty

Yup, the original M109 was semi-gloss white on the interior.  Actually, all M109s have been and are still white on the inside.

 

Thank you Gamera, I plan to post some more progress pictures soon.

Harold

Harold: Good to see all the running gear assembled and ready to go! 

Thank you Sprueman.

DRUMS01

sprueman: So you obviously knew Graf.? Where was the 6/29th stationed during your time in Germany? When were you there? As an FDO you most likely also remember working up a Safety "T" for the safe firing zone while at Graf., am I correct? Did you ever lay a battery into a firing position? 

Sergeant: I am no expert on the M109 itself. I was around them all day, and had friends who commanded them. Sometimes we helped each other when possible so I know a little. I did get to fire an M110 a couple times (pulling the lanyard). My real time was in the FDC (M577), or BOC (5ton cmd. box). Recieving the call and training my men to proficiently and accurately calculate the firing data to put steel on target, that was my mission.

Stik is a good guy, recently retired and full of great military knowledge. From my time in this forum, he is one you can really rely on regarding information and authenticity.

As for modeling, I currently have two M109's, an M110, a M548, and a M577 in scale. Some day I want to build a hip-shoot diorama with a single gun. Back in the day that is how they trained to shoot tactical nukes as they leave a telling firing signature for counter battery fire.

Delta 35 this is Romeo 60, End of Mission. Three Tango 62 and 4 Bravo Mike Papa's burning, out. 

OK, I'm quiet now and my apologies for my rabbit trail on this wonderful build thread. From what I remember historically, this is looking to be an epic build of a M109. I am sitting back and watching this one develop.

v/r,

Ben

 

sprueman: So you obviously knew Graf.? Where was the 6/29th stationed during your time in Germany? When were you there? As an FDO you most likely also remember working up a Safety "T" for the safe firing zone while at Graf., am I correct? Did you ever lay a battery into a firing position? 

Sergeant: I am no expert on the M109 itself. I was around them all day, and had friends who commanded them. Sometimes we helped each other when possible so I know a little. I did get to fire an M110 a couple times (pulling the lanyard). My real time was in the FDC (M577), or BOC (5ton cmd. box). Recieving the call and training my men to proficiently and accurately calculate the firing data to put steel on target, that was my mission.

Stik is a good guy, retired from the military, recently retired from the police department, and full of great military knowledge. From my time in this forum, he is one you can really rely on regarding information and authenticity.

As for modeling, I currently have two M109's, an M110, a M548, and a M577 in scale. Some day I want to build a hip-shoot diorama with a single gun. Back in the day that is how they trained to shoot tactical nukes as they leave a telling firing signature for counter battery fire.

Delta 35 this is Romeo 60, End of Mission. Three Tango 62 and 4 Bravo Mike Papa's burning, out. 

OK, I'm quiet now and my apologies for my rabbit trail on this wonderful build thread. From what I remember historically, this is looking to be an epic build of a M109. I am sitting back and watching this one develop.

v/r,

Ben

Wow SFC Aberegg, you have been hiding in plain site. Thank you for your contribution to this project. Yes I purchased an AFV Club M54A2 6x6 to carry ammo for the Vietnam era M109, that was Gino's suggestion. It's still in the box waiting it's turn at the bench. An M548A2 would cover a period from the 1960's all the way through the Gulf War. GlennH has some great pictures of trucks carrying ammo to fire bases during Vietnam and AFV Club has some interesting 155mm ammo kits that look just like Glenn's photographs.

DRUMS01

You received metriological updates for tempreture, air density, wind direction / speed, etc. After calculating the barometric corrections they would be plotted on the GFT (time, elevation and drift).

But I cannot wait to see this build progress. Are you going to also build the FDC M577 or the ammo carrier (M548, Gore, or?)???

Keep up the great work!

Ben

Harold

Cool history, my self i was an FDO in 6/29 in Germany.

Sorry I did not participate in this thread earlier. As a FDC Chief at the battery and Squadron (Cavalry) levels I was getting a charge out of some of the calls for fire. I too went to Fort Sill for both basic and AIT as a 13E. Though I crewed a M577 Command Post Carrier, I was near the guns to calculate all of the firing data and sent the commands to them. My first assignment was to 1/29th Field Artillery within the 4th Infantry Div. at Fort Carson, CO; it was an M109 unit. My next assignment was in West Germany from 79-83, then assigned to 2/83rd FA (M110A2, 8 inch nuclear capable howitzers). This was during the Cold War. Later after getting another MOS, but being a career soldier, I was reassigned according to the needs of the Army, back to a 13E FDC slot in the 3rd Squadron 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment. Each squadron has its own artillery battery (M109's). With three cavalry squadrons in the 3rd Regiment we effectlvely had a artillery battalion. Here I was the FDC Chief in Charlie Battery, as an E-6 and later transferred to Squadron S-3 (Operations) to double duty as the Squadron Chemical NCO (54E) and Fire Support NCO (13E) both as  E-7. 

Over the years I received calls for fire missions from American Army, Marines, German and Italian Army soldiers. I remember receiving adjust fire missions, supressive fires, DEFCON FPF's, zone and sweep, high angle, illumination, and nuclear missions. When I started in the military there were no computers to calculate the firing data. You had a military map (with terrian elevation), your plotting chart, and Range Deflection Protractor (RDP) Graphic Site Table (GST), Graphic Firing Table (GFT), etc. You received metriological updates for tempreture, air density, wind direction / speed, etc. After calculating the barometric corrections they would be plotted on the GFT (time, elevation and drift). There also were no digital/encrypted communications so each fire mission had to be authenticated through a CEOI. Later FADAC, TI-59, and TACFIRE computers as well as digital and encrypted communications updated the process and basically eliminated the need to authenticate through a CEOI. I really doubt if an FDC specialist even gets trained in the manual/manual method anymore. The data sent to the guns were a deflection (right or left of the battery laid position); quadrant (barrel up or down basically elevation for distance); and Time for a fuze setting (for anything other than HE/PD rounds).

A battery had 6 guns and normally the most proficient gun was set in the three or four position as "base piece". They were the single round adjusting gun on adjust fire missions...to site in or adjust the round to the target. Once the steel was on target the FIST or Foward Observer would call in the "Fire For Effect" command. Based on the target description the FDC would then call for the entire battery to load up. Depending on the mission it could be one command to fire, fire when ready, or fire by command (a single or multiple rounds). 

One of the wildest fire missions to see as an FDO is a "zone and sweep" mission. This is basically quilting a target. Lets say for example,  the size of a grid square (1K), where a round falls at a designated spread, normally every 50 or 100 meters. A mission of this size was not done with one battery but with a batallion or brigade level mission. 

One of the craziest missions to watch from the battery position is a final protective fire FPF while using a "bee hive" round. Talk to anyone who has seen it, they will tell you. It is great for clearing a tree line too. Strange sound going down range, but devestating. I could talk all day about this.....

But I cannot wait to see this build progress. Are you going to also build the FDC M577 or the ammo carrier (M548, Gore, or?)???

Keep up the great work!

Ben

Hello Gennulmen!

Thanks a lot for your kind words. When recommending that Tamiya white primer I didn't mean it is any unique shade - it's just white, but one that covers well. That's really handy. Sarge - you don't have to worry about controlling the spray very much here, you're just putting one or two thin coats, and the paint does a really good job on self-levelling. If you want to go really sophisticated, put one coat of Tamiya grey primer and another one of white primer on top of that, and voilla - white interior parts in just two thin coats.

That's the results I got this way (plus some weathering):

Good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł

Yup, the original M109 was semi-gloss white on the interior.  Actually, all M109s have been and are still white on the inside.

CapnMac82

 

 

Sergeant

Also I don't use spray paint cans if I can avoid it because I can't control the paint very well.

 

 

Without wanting to put words in Pawel's mouth--he is superbly capable--I'm guessing he's refering to how the Tamiya white primer is kind of a unique white color which is neither XF-2 nor X-2.

But, that is a guess.

Some modelers will, when a spary can color is the perfect thing, will "decant" the color, by spraying it into a cup to collect the paint, which can then be transfered to an airbrush with whatever thinning or admixtures seem apt.

As to the color, well, I'm a squid, not a red-leg.  Even as a Beachmaster, I was nt near enough to the arty to have a good look inside the SPHs (which were on different ships than I was, too).

 

We were known as Snipe's men:

https://navydads.com/profiles/blogs/why-the-navy-term-used-for-engineers-is-snipes

I think this Tamiya white spray paint or primer is something I will look into. In the past I used Tamiya Gray Fine Surface Primer, In fact I still have two brand new cans in my supplies. But I started using Vallejo paint and primer late last year and found the #71.001 White was more of a satin finish than gloss, perfect for the ONTOS interior. That's why I asked what color the M109 interior should be, because I may have a good match already. However, If I learned anything from this Forum it's that I'm always learning something new and I agree Pawel is an experienced model builder and reliable source of information.

Harold

Sergeant

Also I don't use spray paint cans if I can avoid it because I can't control the paint very well.

Without wanting to put words in Pawel's mouth--he is superbly capable--I'm guessing he's refering to how the Tamiya white primer is kind of a unique white color which is neither XF-2 nor X-2.

But, that is a guess.

Some modelers will, when a spary can color is the perfect thing, will "decant" the color, by spraying it into a cup to collect the paint, which can then be transfered to an airbrush with whatever thinning or admixtures seem apt.

As to the color, well, I'm a squid, not a red-leg.  Even as a Beachmaster, I was nt near enough to the arty to have a good look inside the SPHs (which were on different ships than I was, too).

Pawel

Hello Sarge!

You've got a very nice discussion going on in your thread - even if it isn't directly model-related I like it a lot.

Do I understand it right that you want to build two howitzers? Or are you just building the "short one"? I got the black dog interior some time ago and I wonder how would one go about fitting it to the A-nothing variant of the M109.

I'd like to recommend Tamiya white primer in a spray can for your interior white - with some black acrylic wash the interior looks just right IMO. And the white really covers, that's not always the case with other paints.

Good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł

 

You do indeed understand correctly I'm building the M109A2 and M109 L23 together or as close together as availability will allow. The Black Dog interior is for the M109A2. I haven't seen the other kit yet, but it's probably not going to have a complete interior.

I served with an M109 L23 Battalion and wanted for a long time to build that model. However, it is my longer term goal to build a series of M109's that cover as many versions as there are models available. I really like AFV Club models, but I don't think they cover more than four out of the eight versions.

The reason I'm doing two this time is our State is still in COVID-19 lockdown. We are not allowed to do much more than get groceries and go to the doctor. No social activity, no dinning out, no haircuts just stay home and stay safe until probably the end of June.

Regarding the M109 interior, do you know for sure the original color is white? I honestly can't remember it's been almost 50 years. Whatever color it is I will need to match with paint I can spray. I have an Iwata miniature spray gun with 1mm adjustable nozzle for large and medium areas and an Iwata airbrush with .35mm nozzle for fine detail. So far these paint tools plus a selection of paint brushes cover every application I have had in modeling. Also I don't use spray paint cans if I can avoid it because I can't control the paint very well.

Harold

Hello Sarge!

You've got a very nice discussion going on in your thread - even if it isn't directly model-related I like it a lot.

Do I understand it right that you want to build two howitzers? Or are you just building the "short one"? I got the black dog interior some time ago and I wonder how would one go about fitting it to the A-nothing variant of the M109.

I'd like to recommend Tamiya white primer in a spray can for your interior white - with some black acrylic wash the interior looks just right IMO. And the white really covers, that's not always the case with other paints.

Good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł