Most models and colour profiles of this vehicle show it with the grey base coat show throwing in patches of the desert yellow, and given the contrast in the black and white pics i would say this is right. I am not sure what the Tamiya colours are for the desert schemes, but i would use XF-63 for the panzer grey with maybe XF-59 on top.

This question will cause of lot of people Greif....

I had to write that.

Stuart06

This question will cause of lot of people Greif....

I had to write that.

I think you've earned yourself a 'time out,' young man....

Bish

Most models and colour profiles of this vehicle show it with the grey base coat show throwing in patches of the desert yellow, and given the contrast in the black and white pics i would say this is right. I am not sure what the Tamiya colours are for the desert schemes, but i would use XF-63 for the panzer grey with maybe XF-59 on top.

 

If you go with Desert Yellow XF-59, lighten it up a bit with some Buff, XF-57. 59 is too dark for any of the RAL Tropen colors used in Africa.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but period photographs show a very dusty and sun faded pattern under the heavy built up dust? 

I don't know if it was a tri-color pattern or panzer grey painted over with desert yellow.

Does anyone know for sure?

It was too early for the dark yellow tri color and too late for the pre War trI color schemes. Looking at photos, it looks to be gray with one of the sand colors sprayed on, and of course lots of desert dust.

The contrast between the darker and lighter colours looks to stark to me to be the 2 colour dersert scheme. Unfortunatly i couldn't find any pics of the inside to show if that was painted grey or not.

Bish

The contrast between the darker and lighter colours looks to stark to me to be the 2 colour dersert scheme.  

Agreed...and look at the top Jerry can the right side view. Darker can, I would say is Panzer Gray, and matches the shade of the darker camo color in the pattern... The colors on the Bovington Tiger have far less contrast between them.

Yeah, that's what I meant. So desert yellow over panzer grey then? 

Too bad we can't tell for sure.

Either way it makes for a unique paint scheme.

For what it's worth, in German "ie" = "ee" and "ei" = "eye."

So this vehicle is "gryf" not "greef" (German for Griffen).

The other vexing question is whether the interior is Panzergrau or not.
Given that it was the big boss' ride might make a difference, even if the photo evidence suggest the outside was left to weather despite being the CG's ride.

Would love to see a WIP on this; the only one I ever built was the ancient old Nitto version, long, long ago (and depicted a rotund Rommel more built like Goering).

I can't imagine the interiour being re-painted no matters who's vehicle it was. Rommel doesn't strike me as the type to go in for BS.

This is the nearest i can find to a pic of the interiour.

But there is also this one, notice the back of the gun shield. Is that shoadow or a darker colour? IMHO, i think the latter.

Bish,

Your second photo won't work for me... it says forbidden or something.

All very good stuff about this color scheme. I, too, prescribe to the idea that Rommel wouldn't be too worried about the interior being sprayed to match the outside.

Lots of great info so far.

Hopefully it works this time.

Bish

I can't imagine the interiour being re-painted no matters who's vehicle it was. Rommel doesn't strike me as the type to go in for BS.

This is the nearest i can find to a pic of the interiour.

But there is also this one, notice the back of the gun shield. Is that shoadow or a darker colour? IMHO, i think the latter.

 

 

Since Rommel is often pictured in the passenger seat it's more likely that's just some dust rubbed off by Rommel's left hand.

It's not so dark as to suggest anything but a very subtle color change and it's already been argued that they didn't use the later color scheme.

Looking at the rest of the shadows, I'd say that is shadow from the angled tube to his left.

About the same shade as the rest of the shadows

Don't shoot the messenger, but here is the other side of the coin;

Remember, this is Ron Volstad's work here, just saying...

This has been thoroughly debated on other forums over the years. As best as known, there is no definitive answer, no interior shots, no overall consensus.

FWIW, I'm actually in the Gelbbraun over Schwarzgrau crowd, (at least tentatively), due to the aforementioned high contrast issues and the Jerrycan shade similarity. What evidence did Mr Volstad have to break the other way? Surely he expended a considerable amount of time researching the subject before committing to this scheme, not merely done on a whim. Others have choosen this scheme as well...

Ixion

Don't shoot the messenger, but here is the other side of the coin;

Remember, this is Ron Volstad's work here, just saying...

This has been thoroughly debated on other forums over the years. As best as known, there is no definitive answer, no interior shots, no overall consensus.

FWIW, I'm actually in the Gelbbraun over Schwarzgrau crowd, (at least tentatively), due to the aforementioned high contrast issues and the Jerrycan shade similarity. What evidence did Mr Volstad have to break the other way? Surely he expended a considerable amount of time researching the subject before committing to this scheme, not merely done on a whim. Others have choosen this scheme as well...

 

Well, the left side photo that I posted above sure shows lighter contrast between the two colors. And therefore supports Mr Volstad’s take for box art. 

Isn't imagery interpretation fun?

If we really want to wade in, here is what Mr Bruce Culver, author of the Panzer Colors series has to say;

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/pz-iii-g-afrika-paint-colour-s-t317279-s30.html

Be sure to download his Word doc. listed below his statements, some nice war-time color shots to be found.

I have just discovered that Tamiya now has two newish colors for DAK vehicles:XF-92 DAK 41, RAL8000; and XF-93 DAK 42, RAL8020. Would either of those be appropriate? Like the XF-93?

The photos of Greif are dated 1942 in the Bundesarchiv, so I’d suggest XF-93, the 1942 color.

stikpusher

The photos of Greif are dated 1942 in the Bundesarchiv, so I’d suggest XF-93, the 1942 color.

 

Not sure i would agree with that. If the darker colour is indeed Pz Grey, thats means it was an early arrival in Africa. Being a Corps HQ vehicle, it would have a longer life expectancy that one with a front line fighting unit. I'm not sure what the Tamiya colours are for the 1941 colours, but going off what Charley posted above, it would be the XF-92, with a good cover of dust and mud.

Right, i'll try this image again.

Greif was originally Dark Gray. The desert color used is RAL 8000 which was sprayed over 2/3 of the vehicle. The remaining 1/3 was supposed to be RAL 7008, however with shortages of paint, it appears the 7008 was never applied.

RAL 8000 is in actuallity quite a dark color. That was the plan, the darker color wouldn't look so dark in the intense sunlight and allow better concealment.

Google "Bovington Tiger" for a good color reference of RAL 8000/7008. Tamiya Desert Yellow is not correct out of the bottle. If used out of the bottle as RAL 8000, don't lighten it at all. It can be used though, as it is the closest unaltered Tamiya color.  

Other manufacturers offer more correct RAL shades. 

I only use Tamiya mixes, based on Starmer's research, for my RAL Tropen colors.  

Frankenpanzer

Greif was originally Dark Gray. The desert color used is RAL 8000 which was sprayed over 2/3 of the vehicle. The remaining 1/3 was supposed to be RAL 7008, however with shortages of paint, it appears the 7008 was never applied.

RAL 8000 is in actuallity quite a dark color. That was the plan, the darker color wouldn't look so dark in the intense sunlight and allow better concealment.

Google "Bovington Tiger" for a good color reference of RAL 8000/7008. Tamiya Desert Yellow is not correct out of the bottle. If used out of the bottle as RAL 8000, don't lighten it at all. It can be used though, as it is the closest unaltered Tamiya color.  

Other manufacturers offer more correct RAL shades. 

I only use Tamiya mixes, based on Starmer's research, for my RAL Tropen colors.  

 

Is there somewhere I can go to see these mixes you speak of? I'm a Tamiya paint mixing fool for RLM colors and I don't mind mixing at all... especially since I can't find the two Tamiya DAK colors I mentioned above.

As for what manufacturers make good shades of these colors, who do you recommend? If there was something that one could use Tamiya X-20A to mix with and have no more odor than Tmiya, I am open to trying them out.

Bish

Right, i'll try this image again.

 

Great phot, and interesting question about the color on the back of the shield. It could be grey, and would certainly add another interesting bit to the overall project.

CharleyGnarlyP290

 

 

Frankenpanzer

Greif was originally Dark Gray. The desert color used is RAL 8000 which was sprayed over 2/3 of the vehicle. The remaining 1/3 was supposed to be RAL 7008, however with shortages of paint, it appears the 7008 was never applied.

RAL 8000 is in actuallity quite a dark color. That was the plan, the darker color wouldn't look so dark in the intense sunlight and allow better concealment.

Google "Bovington Tiger" for a good color reference of RAL 8000/7008. Tamiya Desert Yellow is not correct out of the bottle. If used out of the bottle as RAL 8000, don't lighten it at all. It can be used though, as it is the closest unaltered Tamiya color.  

Other manufacturers offer more correct RAL shades. 

I only use Tamiya mixes, based on Starmer's research, for my RAL Tropen colors.  

 

 

 

 

 

Is there somewhere I can go to see these mixes you speak of? I'm a Tamiya paint mixing fool for RLM colors and I don't mind mixing at all... especially since I can't find the two Tamiya DAK colors I mentioned above.

As for what manufacturers make good shades of these colors, who do you recommend? If there was something that one could use Tamiya X-20A to mix with and have no more odor than Tmiya, I am open to trying them out.

 

I cannot immediately find my reference however, 

RAL 8000 is a 50/50 mix of Dark Yellow XF-60 and Flat Earth XF-52. To that add drops of Yellow Green, XF-4 until you get a golden brown color with a twinge of green. 

RAL 7008 is Tamiya Khaki-XF-49 with a few drops of Tamiya OD XF-62. To that I add some drops of Yellow Green and Medium Gray XF-20 until I get a khaki green color that, if viewed alone, is slightly gray. The two colors should be close in tonal value, meaning there is little contrast between them. That is why two colors are hard to discern in period B/W photos. Add dust to that and for decades no one realized there were two colors. 

I always use Mr Color Thinner or Mr Color Leveling Thinner with my Tamiya paints. My go to after that is Tamiya Lacquer Thinner.

I'm living in a really dry area and those give me my best results. XF-20a allows the paint to dry too fast here in the desert. 

As far as alternatives to Tamiya, I have used the Lifecolor sets with mixed results. The colors are accurate. They never want to spray tight patterns for me using their thinner. I never used any other thinner with them as I could get by with what I had. 

MM Enamels were pretty good in the RAL 8000/7008 combo. Their RAL 8020 was ok accuracy wise but the 7027 was way off the mark. 7027 is a pale gray green not a pale gray brown. It is a shame the colors were discontinued.

I have not used anything else except MMP and I don't like them at all. Accuracy is "off" as far as I'm concerned and again, they don't perform well for me here in a dry climate. 

WHAT!?! It wasn't bright gold with chrome hubcaps??? 

Sorry guys, this conversation is getting waaaay too serious. It needs a little levity! 

Gamera

WHAT!?! It wasn't bright gold with chrome hubcaps??? 

Sorry guys, this conversation is getting waaaay too serious. It needs a little levity! 

 

This thread is far from "serious". It is up to the individual modeler to decide how in depth they wish to go.

In fact, this thread is a good start as reference for beginners. 

A gold Rommel's Rod though, now that's a statement.