AFV Club 1/35 AEC Matador British Army Artillery Tractor

Looking great Harold. I've been otherwise occupied myself for a few days, so not on the computer, or the work bench much.

I have the primer on and need to give it 24 hours to dry thoroughly before I do any touch up around the windows.

Description

Thank you, Rob and TigerII. Today my progress was limited by other activities, but I did manage to get the windows and mirrors on the cab. The next step is to mask the windows and give the cab a couple of coats of primer. I will use a new liquid mask made by Hobby Pro manufacture of VMS products in Poland. https://www.vms-supplies.com/ 

The split windows on this Matador remind me of a 1932 Model A Ford my neighbor had when we were kids growing up in the country on a farm. That split window ventilation worked rather good on a nice day when it was not raining.

Harold

Sergeant

 

 

Dodgy

Harold, I'm not about to argue with Mike Starmer's research, but I'd like to refer you to a comment from Shep Paine. "Over the years more hot air has been generated about correct colours than any other phase of armour modeling." "There are no absolutely correct colours for a particular vehicle.""Aside from concocting your own colours out of thin air, perhaps the biggest mistake you can make is to adhere fanatically to colours from photos, drawings, or even colour chips."

My motto is if it looks right, it usually is. Weathering, colour variations in photos, or print, always affect the reference. And then the vehicle is going to be seen under a film of dust and/or grime.

Rob F

 

 

 

 

That is very good advice Mate.

 

 

Hi Harold. I hope you both had a good time whilst you were away. The Matador is looking great and the paint job looks excellent. I too have been playing with the airbrush and compressor. Haven't touched either for many years and having to re-learn all over again, but it sounds like you have your issues worked out.

I truly salute your dedication to accuracy regarding the paint job!

Ferg

I feel the need to explain that Colours mentioned in M.T.P. #46 shown in my previous post were superseded by S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab and S.C.C. 14 Blue Black in 1943, but the camouflage pattern illustrated in M.T.P. #46 remained the same.

These were Colours used in N.W. Europe during the Second Wold War. Originally I had planned to model the Matador after British Army units located in the Orkney Islands, but identifying specific units became very difficult and as it turned out I already had decals for the British 2nd Army.

Harold

Dodgy

G'day Harold. I've been away from the computer for a few days so I'm just touching base. You haven't posted anything on the Matador for a while, is everything ok?

Ferg

 

While I was gone, I received the new air compressor I ordered. At first, I was disappointed because the Iwata miniature spray gun I have is too big for the air compressor. The spray gun has a 1.0mm needle and nozzle set. Then I tried the new air compressor with my Iwata airbrush that has a 0.35mm needle and nozzle, it works perfectly. In fact, it works so good at 17 PSI I was able to paint the Matador truck bed, cab interior and undercarriage with no runs and no over-spray using Vallejo surface primer. The finish is smooth, and I did not use any thinner or flow improver.

In the past my big industrial air compressor made it hard to regulate the air pressure in the 15 to 20 PSI range because it was designed to operate at 100 to 125 PSI. Even after I added a second regulator and moisture filter it would deliver to much air or not enough and the compressor was very laud. The result was either occasional runs in the paint, excessive paint buildup around tight places, or rough finish from dry paint (over-spray) when I use my airbrush. The miniature spray gun has its place with large aircraft wings and ship hulls, but I seem to do fine on 1/35 scale AFV bodies with a 0.35mm airbrush at 17 PSI.

Below is the work I did today with the first coat of USA Olive Drab Vallejo Surface Primer #74.608. The finish coat will be British S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab (which is not US Olive Drab). It will be a Tamiya mix of XF-81, XF-58, and XF-71 that Mike Starmer researched. The camouflage paint will be S.C.C. 14 Blue Black, Tamiya XF-69. Originally, I had planned to use Vallejo paint, but after other considerations have decided to go with a proven Tamiya mixture. The camouflage pattern will be like figure 7 from the British Military Training Pamphlet #46, shown below.

Harold

G'day Harold. I've been away from the computer for a few days so I'm just touching base. You haven't posted anything on the Matador for a while, is everything ok?

Ferg

Dodgy

Harold, I'm not about to argue with Mike Starmer's research, but I'd like to refer you to a comment from Shep Paine. "Over the years more hot air has been generated about correct colours than any other phase of armour modeling." "There are no absolutely correct colours for a particular vehicle.""Aside from concocting your own colours out of thin air, perhaps the biggest mistake you can make is to adhere fanatically to colours from photos, drawings, or even colour chips."

My motto is if it looks right, it usually is. Weathering, colour variations in photos, or print, always affect the reference. And then the vehicle is going to be seen under a film of dust and/or grime.

Rob F

 

Harold, I'm not about to argue with Mike Starmer's research, but I'd like to refer you to a comment from Shep Paine. "Over the years more hot air has been generated about correct colours than any other phase of armour modeling." "There are no absolutely correct colours for a particular vehicle.""Aside from concocting your own colours out of thin air, perhaps the biggest mistake you can make is to adhere fanatically to colours from photos, drawings, or even colour chips."

My motto is if it looks right, it usually is. Weathering, colour variations in photos, or print, always affect the reference. And then the vehicle is going to be seen under a film of dust and/or grime.

Rob F

THe short answer is yes!

The longer answer is it depends on build year and theatre of operations.

Mike Starmers' info is regarded as authoritave & I'd go with him. I've met Mike at a show & he is more than willing to share info.

SCC2 Khaki Brown & SCC14 Night Black or Tarmac Black (not black) is typical of this type of camo.
VJ call it Grey Blue, but I've never heard it called it that, & VJ are 'optimistic' in what they call their colours.
MIG acrylics, my current favourite, do a whole range of SCC colours not just this starter set.

The National Army Museum's pic example is wrong to my eyes, the number plate is post-war, so may have suffered a respray.

1942-44 – M.T.P.46 diagrams of November 1941 introduced a new two tone patterned scheme aimed primarily against aerial observation, usually using the BS.987C browns as laid down in A.C.I.1160 of May 1942.  Stocks of the older colours were to be exhausted but in the new scheme. The most common versions of M.T.P.46 were variants of the “Foliage” pattern and the unofficial “Mickey Mouse” variant of the Dapple pattern.  Vehicles continued to be delivered and used in plain S.C.C.2 following ACI 1160 which gave S.C.C.2 as “Basic Paint”.  In October 1943 A.C.I.1496 authorised S.C.C.14, black, as the main tone over S.C.C.2. 

From MAFVA website

In terms of towing vehicles Bedford QLB's & Morris's were more usually associated with the 40mm Bofors, with the Matadors reserved for the Heavies 4.5", 5.5" etc, as per your pic, but never say never.

If it's the truck photo you mean, I'd always go with Mike Starmer's research before trusting the paints used by museum staff.

Also refer to Mike's research concerning the timeline of what paints and schemes were used for the European Theater:

https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463

regards,

Jack

The above post was provided by jgeratic (Jack) from Ontario, Canada on the British Army Group Build 2020 Forum.

My reply to Jack: Your referral to Mike Starmer's research is compelling to say the least. The information provided by Vallejo and guided by Mike Starmer make it so much easier to understand than trying to interpret the plethora of standards, instructions and changes in paint colors and camouflage schemes that took place during the Second World War.

I tend to be obsessed with details especially regarding military history. I want things like paint and decals to be accurately represented in my modeling work. Thank you for taking time to provide Mike's research, it's is extremely helpful.

Harold

I have found some conflicting information regarding World War 2 British Army Artillery color for tactical and support vehicles. My original source was Vallejo paint set 71.614 British Colors UK/BEF/Europe 1939 - 1945. Colors researcher assisted by expert Mike Starmer.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/product/hobby/sets/afv-color-series/wwii-british-colors-uk-bef-europe-1939-1945-71614/

However, in the Royal British National Army Museum I find a different set of colors for Army vehicles.

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?q=searchType%3Dsimple%26resultsDisplay%3Dlist%26simpleText%3DTruck&pos=14&total=314&page=1&acc=1989-07-69-1

Can anyone shed light on this issue? Was the color of World War 2 Royal Army Artillery vehicles brown or green? Vallejo's expert thinks they were medium brown with grey blue camouflage. The British Museum thinks they were green with brown camouflage.

Harold

Dodgy

Very nice job mate. I look forward to seeing it with some colour. You are right about British lorries, there's just something about them. My favourites are the Morris and Scammel families, they just have this look.......

 

I received the AFV Club fuel can kit like picture #5 and rebuilt the stowage rack under the truck bed, please see photograph #4 below. I also received the Eureka LH-00 40mm braided metal wire rope like picture #7 and rebuilt the set of tow cables on the tailgate of the Matador, see photograph #6. These were two little details I wanted to upgrade before painting.

So, I am ready to start primer as soon as I have a new air compressor.

Harold

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Very nice job mate. I look forward to seeing it with some colour. You are right about British lorries, there's just something about them. My favourites are the Morris and Scammel families, they just have this look.......

I added the last little details to the cab this morning in preparation for painting. The assembly of this model went pretty much according to the instructions, but I had a problem with the fuel can stowage rack under the truck bed and I also lost the clutch pedal, one minute it was in my tweezers and the next it was flying accross the room.

I also had another problem I would like to explain in more detail, so if anyone else decides to build this model they can be forewarned. There was an early production version of the Matador that AFV Club came out with in 2014, #AF35236. According to Scalemates' database the later production version I built, #AF35239 was released in 2015 with new parts. However, part #I-49 and I-50 which is used to anchor the back of the cab to the frame and control the height of the cab was not correct in my opinion for the new version. 

I do not know why because I have never built the earlier version, but I can tell you that I had to remove 5/64" (approx. 2mm) of the part to get the cab to sit down properly. If you look at the front of the cab in my previous posting of the Matador without the canopy you will see a white styrene spacer at the front bumper. That represents how much modification I had to make to part #I-49 and I-50. The photographs below show the cab now sitting on the frame the way it should be according to all the pictures I have seen of the Matador.

A Mate asked me why I like the AEC Matador? I like old lorries in general because they have a special look and sound that is uniquely British, kind of like canal boats. I have never driven a Matador, but in videos I have watched people say they are beautiful to drive. I think it is because the driver is sitting right over the front axle and the steering is like a modern transit bus. I worked in the mass transit industry for six years as an electromachanical contractor and had an opportunity to test drive city buses and over-the-road coaches. What can say, I like big wheels.

Harold

Dodgy

This is going to be a fantastic model. How are you going to display it? Incidentlly, those were some great interior shots of the real thing. They will come in handy for my 1/76th build.

Rob F

 

Since then I purchased extra British fuel cans and have been looking at extra 40mm ammunition and a gun crew to go with the Matador and Bofors gun. Beyond that I have not made any decisions about a display. If I did a diorama it would be either with the Matador hauling the anti-aircraft gun crew and towing the Bofors gun or have the Matador next to the anti-aircraft gun for ammunition loading.

This morning I added a few more things to the truck cab but left it so I can take the cab apart to paint the interior. I am ready to start painting, but I may put this project on the shelf for a couple of weeks to decide on a new air compressor.

Harold

This is going to be a fantastic model. How are you going to display it? Incidentlly, those were some great interior shots of the real thing. They will come in handy for my 1/76th build.

Rob F

Ready to start interior painting.

Dodgy

Lots of progress Harold, looking great. I really like the look of this kit.

 

Rob F

 

I made a few mistakes today, because I was rushing to finish as much as possible. I lost one of the pedals, a clutch pedal, I think but I made a new one out styrene, so it was not a major issue.

The control levelers on the floor seem to be in the way of the gas pedal, so I did a little research and found out the levelers lay over the wheel wells allowing access to the gas pedal. I am not sure what the levers do, but they are in the right place. Please see photographs #3 and #4 below. I also found pictures of a finished AFV Club Matador, #5 and #6 that confirm how the manufacture intended the levers to look.

Harold

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Lots of progress Harold, looking great. I really like the look of this kit.

Rob F

Thank you Bish. I completed assembly of the canopy this morning and I am ready to start assembly of the truck cab interior. The canopy will not be glued to the truck bed until the interior is painted.

I ordered Eureka XXL braider metal wire rope in .40mm diameter to replace the copper wire cables stowed on the tail gate. I have used the Eureka wire rope before and it is easy to use, realistic looking material. I also ordered AFV Club styrene British fuel cans to replace the resin ones that came in the kit.

Harold

I completed steps 10 through 18 out of 28 which is the truck bed, seating, and accessories. There were a few problems in these steps starting with resin gas cans that came with the kit. Why AFV Club chose to have resin gas cans when their styrene cans are perfect, I have no idea. However, the main problem was the styrene storage rack for gas cans located under the truck bed. The storage rack was incomplete according to the number of parts in the instructions. Anyway I ended up making a storage rack out of styrene strips which is a little different than the original, but it looks similar to an actual rack I had fabricated out of angle iron, so I know it will work.

There were also a few other problems with the instructions, but I was able to work around those without too much difficulty. Step 19 is assembly of the canopy and then steps 20 through 27 is the cab interior. The cab interior will need to be hand-painted before final assembly and painting.

Harold

I hear what you're saying about the instructions mate. As a friend once said to me - "We seek lifes problems because of the gifts they bring" If you can be practical about these things I think this is very true.

PS I dont think you should have any worries about the Ontos.

Jon_a_its

Good work so far!

A few recent threads bring up the old problem of 'rubber'/vynyl tyres reacting with the plastic rims.

I've never heard of this happening with AFV club, but a popular solution is to skin the wheel rim, where the rubber contacts the plastic, with Bare Metal Foil/thin Aluminium tape of your choice, & dip the tyres in Future/Pledge, then avoid enamels & paint/weather with Acrylics.

 

 

One thing I did with this model is paint the tires with Vallejo Tire Black #71.315. I do not like shinny vinyl rubber tires because they are not natural looking. This morning; however, I noticed the material was hard like plastic instead of pliable and soft when I worked on this model nine months ago. So maybe there will be a problem down the road, I will check it again in six months.

As you said Jon AFV Club does not have a history of the problem and maybe they have found the right material to represent rubber tires? I do have a concern about another model I did for a friend in March. It had vinyl rubber tracks and I recall using CA glue to connect the tracks which caused some melting of material at the connection point. This was an Academy model release about ten-years ago with the original vinyl tracks. If it fails that could be a problem because the model is in the National Marine Corps Museum in Quantico, Virginia. Please see photograph #4 and #5 below.

Rob I stuff-up every model I build in one way or another. I have become a repair aficionado out of necessity. I have a stockpile of styrene, copper wire and unused parts that I go to all to often. I try not to get upset when I make mistakes, I tell myself every mistake is an opportunity to learn something. But if I have learned anything it is not to assume the instructions are wrong. Sometimes they are, but most of the time it is me.

Harold

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#3 Photograph below taken in December 2019

#4 The model below is on display in the National Marine Corps Museum

#5

I find that interesting. Years ago I built the Tamiya LRDG kit and won a national comp with it, so naturally I was very proud. Imagine my horror when a few years later I realised that all the tyres had developed major cracks. I've since purchased resin replacements, but I also dropped the bugger when moving house. So the replacement tyres and the hulk is now sitting on the shelf of shame.

Well mate it happens to us all. I will not tell you about my stuff up with the StugIIIA until it's finished. Anyway it looks like you have got it sorted nicely. Looking great.

Good work so far!

A few recent threads bring up the old problem of 'rubber'/vynyl tyres reacting with the plastic rims.

I've never heard of this happening with AFV club, but a popular solution is to skin the wheel rim, where the rubber contacts the plastic, with Bare Metal Foil/thin Aluminium tape of your choice, & dip the tyres in Future/Pledge, then avoid enamels & paint/weather with Acrylics.

Dodgy

May he rest in peace. "At the going down of the sun and in the morning,we will remember them".

 

I had one minor problem with assembly today. In photograph #1 and #3 you can see a white part next to the frame. It is a transmission mount that I had to build from styrene. The instructions show installation of a transmission mount before the transmission is installed, but you cannot get the transmission in place with that mount installed. I try to plan ahead at least two steps during assembly, but sometimes I overlook this kind of problem until it is too late.

Harold

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May he rest in peace. "At the going down of the sun and in the morning,we will remember them".