my elephant WIP **finished**

looks great Rooster, I would like to say that Crockett has some valid points about the pin washes and the like to bring out some of the detail more!  As for the cammo, I don't think he was saying it's wrong, I think it's because he just hasn't seen it!  Looks pretty good man, the suggestions listed above would bring it to a greater level!

no offence taken guys. i thought the wash i did was standing out, but i should try to give it a darker wash. before i used a light color wash as i didn't want to darken the yelow anymore that it already is. i'll give it a try tonight if i can make the time. thanks guys, i

ll post the new pics when i i get it done.

rooster

ok, just got finished giving it another coat of flat. i used testors flat in the shake can, and i just couldn't shake the semi gloss effect on it. i just applied MM acryl flat, and it seemes to be doing the job alot better. i touched it up with some more darker pin washes as crockett pointed out. this is my first major dunkelgelb tank, so i really didn't know how to go about weathering it. i took the advice, and it seems to look alot better i think. i'll let you guys be the judge of that. i know i posted it as finished, but i also realized how incomplete it really was. surprised no one pointed out that it was missing the antenna! i also totally forgot to weather the bottom hull with some pigments for dust and dried mud. (i'll also touch up the upper hull with dust effects) i should have some new "finished" pics in a couple of days. i'll also try to make the pics a little better quality from the helpful tips that ron gave me. thanks again guys for looking and helping with the comments and suggestions. please, when i re-post, feel free to let me know if its still not up to par on the washes, like i said, my first yellow vehicle. (you can tell by the slight darkness of the yellow, should be a lot lighter, maybe the next one will be better). i haven't really seen to many dunkelgelb kits built lately, so i really have nothing to reference it to. thanks buddies,

rooster

Hey Rooster,

Listen up troop!! Remember my first post? I said you have built a really nice model, which you have. If you consider it finished, it pleases you right?....then it's done! Every body has an opinion, but it's sooo important that you build for YOURSELF.

The bottom line is, you can inspect your work with a microscope, and someone will find an inaccuracy. But, that is the nature of the beast. It is also what makes your work YOURS.

I know the tendency is to rush and get the work on the boards, it is exciting to anticipate the feedback and discussion that your build may stimulate. It is obvious that you have talent, don't shortcut it. The reality, and I feel ,the secret to producing models that are provacative, is the research behind the vehicle. - Patience Grasshopper....

The Elefant for example, was the Edsel of the German armored corps. A total failure in combat, limited deployment, and the unique Porsche Tiger chassis, makes this vehicle an extreme oddity. In the modeling world, that makes it a popular subject. The drawback is, there are just a few references available as far as paint and markings. So, most German Armor freaks get a fixed "accuracy" image in thier heads about what a Kursk or Italian front vehicle is "supposed" to look like. Any scheme that deviates from the "known" (and I use that term loosely), draws a skeptical eye.

Learning about the detail of the environment as to where the vehicle operated, it's manufacturing and deployment history, etc., enhance the detail, credibility, and ultimately the quality of the finished work.

Slow down man, only Ron Goins can build accurately at this pace.........read, google and ask......then build......and the brothers on the board will still tell you what's out of place!

regards,

Steve 

crockett wrote:

Hey Rooster, Listen up troop!! Remember my first post? I said you have built a really nice model, which you have. If you consider it finished, it pleases you right?....then it's done! Every body has an opinion, but it's sooo important that you build for YOURSELF. The bottom line is, you can inspect your work with a microscope, and someone will find an inaccuracy. But, that is the nature of the beast. It is also what makes your work YOURS. I know the tendency is to rush and get the work on the boards, it is exciting to anticipate the feedback and discussion that your build may stimulate. It is obvious that you have talent, don't shortcut it. The reality, and I feel ,the secret to producing models that are provacative, is the research behind the vehicle. - Patience Grasshopper.... The Elefant for example, was the Edsel of the German armored corps. A total failure in combat, limited deployment, and the unique Porsche Tiger chassis, makes this vehicle an extreme oddity. In the modeling world, that makes it a popular subject. The drawback is, there are just a few references available as far as paint and markings. So, most German Armor freaks get a fixed "accuracy" image in thier heads about what a Kursk or Italian front vehicle is "supposed" to look like. Any scheme that deviates from the "known" (and I use that term loosely), draws a skeptical eye. Learning about the detail of the environment as to where the vehicle operated, it's manufacturing and deployment history, etc., enhance the detail, credibility, and ultimately the quality of the finished work. Slow down man, only Ron Goins can build accurately at this pace.........read, google and ask......then build......and the brothers on the board will still tell you what's out of place! regards, Steve

Aye, the lad speaketh the truth!

thanks steve. by no way was i ever offended. your right, the modeler will ALWAYS find something wrong with his build. but i like the feedback as you stated, and i really did rush it ststing it was finished when it really wasn't. i completly forgot the antenna . i do build for me, but i love the feedback that you guys give me as it make me strive to make it better and i also do learn a ton of info as i go along. i fixed up some of the weathering last night because i forgot to do it before, not because someone corrected me on it. i just missed one of my own flaws. although it may seem that i rush through builds, i really do have alot of time on my hands in spurts.  my hetzer is at a standstill until i have more time to work on it. but i build for fun, and the feedback only helps me. if i get positive feedback, but don't really fel like going through the extra effort, i'll just leave it as done. i really did miss some important parts of the build though. i missed the whole weathering process almost in a whole. but thanks steve, it really means alot to me what you said. i am getting better and better every kit, but only from the helpful guys on this forum. keep an eye out for the new and improved elephant that i will be posting pics of in the next couple of days.

rooster

I agree with you on a few counts Steve, but did find this scheme to be valid from some refs.

tigerman wrote:

I agree with you on a few counts Steve, but did find this scheme to be valid from some refs.

Oh yeah Eric, I just hadn't seen it. I thought all Kursk Elefants were sprayed over dunkelgelb. I've seen the splotch, the snaky lines, but never hard edge splotch?. In no way was I trying to play "Mr. German Cammo ", I was just curious, and I thought the scheme should be blended a little to soften it up.

It's a great model.

 

Steve

crockett wrote:

tigerman wrote: I agree with you on a few counts Steve, but did find this scheme to be valid from some refs. Oh yeah Eric, I just hadn't seen it. I thought all Kursk Elefants were sprayed over dunkelgelb. I've seen the splotch, the snaky lines, but never hard edge splotch?. In no way was I trying to play "Mr. German Cammo ", I was just curious, and I thought the scheme should be blended a little to soften it up. It's a great model.   Steve

Ferdy's were at Kursk, Elefants weren't. Elefants saw a lot of action in Italy, where their strengths were negated, so to speak. I agree about the "softening". He could still do it without too much harm to the decals. There is a Ferdy at Kursk with a hard-edge jig-saw puzzle cam that is so cool, but I'd hate to try to replicate it.

no hard feelings on any account guys. that's why we're here. i was just going off the references i had for the hard edged camo pattern. and if it didn't exsist, oh well, it was fun. i like the coments and thoughts of every modeler here. i have NO thin skin here guys. now if Mansteins Revenge would have replied, he probably would have given me the go around.  i love getting feedback, but if something isn't historically accurate, oh well. it was fun to build and paint, and that is what matters. please guys don't feel that you need to hold back on your helpful critism. every and all comments and suggestions is what i am looking for. i can see how other modelers see it through their eyes, or how they would have done it, and i learn and get new ideas in the process. espically from people  that i looks up to for advice. people who have been here alot longer than me, and have their references a little bit more in check than i: eric, steve, ron, rob, doog, kykeon etc etc. keep helping the younger guys, your doing a fantastic job.

tigerman wrote:

crockett wrote:  tigerman wrote: I agree with you on a few counts Steve, but did find this scheme to be valid from some refs. Oh yeah Eric, I just hadn't seen it. I thought all Kursk Elefants were sprayed over dunkelgelb. I've seen the splotch, the snaky lines, but never hard edge splotch?. In no way was I trying to play "Mr. German Cammo ", I was just curious, and I thought the scheme should be blended a little to soften it up. It's a great model.   Steve Ferdy's were at Kursk, Elefants weren't. Elefants saw a lot of action in Italy, where their strengths were negated, so to speak. I agree about the "softening". He could still do it without too much harm to the decals. There is a Ferdy at Kursk with a hard-edge jig-saw puzzle cam that is so cool, but I'd hate to try to replicate it.

OH ......man, I totally forgot about the Ferdinand / Elefant thing! thanks for refreshing my ever fading memory. I have an addition of AFV Modeler with a fantastic Ferdinand, the same kit as roosters, and it has the "snaky" olive grun cammo pattern which is quite cool.

 

Thanks brother..

 

SC

Well Chris, I think it looks amazing. And hope some day to achieve similar results.

Sweet as, man.

...Guy

thanks luftwoller. here is some new and improved shots of the after weathering. still dosen't have the antenna on as it broke off on me during painting, but it does have one, hehe. thanks for everyone to took the time to check out my build and gave me some excellent feedback.

rooster

Nice Elephant , good tracks , very realistic.  

Looks great from here, hope my zimm looks that good!

Gettin' there Roo! The beast is starting to come alive!

Go lightly on that rust though; Russian summers around the time of Kursk were kinda dry... 

Keep going--it gets better with each post! 

- getting even gnarlier each time you post progress!

Awesome build rooster!  So who else has ordered some Aves Apoxie Scult and the Tamiya zimmerit tools?  The Apoxie Sculpt is on back order and Auswerks won't have any until Friday.

After seeing how easy that method of zim application seems to be, I will have to try once my order comes in.

 Henry 

The Elefant depicted here is a very well known vehicle, even if it is not immediately recognised. Elefant #102, chassis #150071, was the mount of Hauptmann Hellmut Ulbricht, company commander of the 1st company of Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilung 653 throughout it's campaign in Italy. The gothic letter "U" on the back of the superstructure is the abbreviation for Ulbricht. This vehicle was captured at the end of May, 1944. Today, we know this vehicle better as the Elefant at Aberdeen Armor Proving Grounds.

Crockett is correct in questioning the hard edge paint scheme. It isn't to be found. In fact photos of this vehicle show it as a very diffuse paint job, barely discernible in the photographs to be found on pages 296-297 of The Combat History of sPzJgAbt. 653. I suspect that Dragon's painting instructions weren't very precise in this manner. There is also a very well done color plate of this vehicle in the back of the book. I can post it if anyone is interested.

While much has been written about the poor performance of these machines in general; over-weight, underpowered, initial lack of a hull MG, poor mechanical reliability, lack of spare parts, etc., this is not the entire story. The fact is that despite all these problems, the Ferdinand / Elefant was indeed a very effective tank destroyer, when properly maintained and properly used in combat. In little over a month's worth of combat, during and after the Battle of Kursk, the 89 Ferdinands of the 656 Heavy Panzerjäger Regiment, (sPzJgAbt. 653 and 654), destroyed some 502 Soviet tanks and over 200 AT and field guns, all for a loss of 39 vehicles, a kill to loss ratio of almost 13 to 1 in tanks alone. This is not a poor reckoning in the realms of any weapons system, let alone one so frequently slighted as being ineffectual. Most of the written statements concerning the relatively high losses suffered at Kursk fail to note the manner in which these vehicles were deployed. At Hitler's insistence, Model committed the ponderously slow, MG lacking Ferdinands as Schwerepunktwaffe, or "breakthrough weapons". This was a role to which they were poorly suited and as a result, suffered badly at the hands of Soviet tank killer teams, which shot out the optics, blinding the crew's already poor visibility and swarmed the hapless vehicles with antitank mines and Molotov cocktails. Once this fatal error had been realized, the remaining vehicles were pulled back and redeployed in their proper role as long-range tank destroyers, changing their ill-deserved reputation as battlefield dinosaurs to that of effective tank killers.