CapnMac82

Epoxies are like the red-headed step sibling of CA glues.

All kinds of varities and types and brands, and each more different than the others; the general opposite of the CA variants, which tend to be similar to each other.

Sadly, "JB Weld" has become a brand and not a specific product (much like "Gorilla" brand).

So, there's lots of having to read the fine print.

And, of course, there's Tanker's admonition, that you mix and mix and mix epoxy, like virtually all of the "working life" is spent mixing.

 

Very true, Capn.

Curtis-mathis used to say about their expensive Televisions Back in the fifities!! "Damn Well Worth It". The first time I heard that, I asked Dad why they were swearing on T.V.

Lol.

In the early 80s I was in school for Electronic Radio and TV Repair. My instructor told us, "Curtis Mathis TVs are no better than the next. I know, because I repair them. What you are paying more for is their warranty."

And that reminds me of the movie, Tommy Boy.

Ted:
But why do they put a guarantee on the box then?

Tommy:
Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of sh... That's all it is.

I wish I could post the whole movie quote, but that might make the PC police freak out.

         It's like C.A. Most folks don't know that it has very weak shear strength! If you try to pull something apart, straight off, It won't bud

          BINGO! That is exactly why I am not using it for this. One bump of the boat and the whole thing snaps off. I WILL use a little CA just to position the boat, but epoxy will do the work.

         With Epoxy properly applied this won't happen. I wiggle the part minutely when setting it in place. This way any microscopic bubbles that might form from introducing the two parts will go away and you get a nice tight bond! Sometimes before it sets up I will tap it gently, hopefully to De-Bubble it any more!

          Good advice.

          So today, I tested the test pieces. I did two things with each epoxy test piece. One was to imbed wires and second I inserted a piece of sprue. In both cases the wires could not be pulled out. And in both cases I WAS able to twist out the sprue. I think JB weld did slightly better than Devcon but not by much. Either way, there was ample strength to it. I will do my best to make a good mechanical connection first. Doing that and adding epoxy should make it fine.

Epoxies are like the red-headed step sibling of CA glues.

All kinds of varities and types and brands, and each more different than the others; the general opposite of the CA variants, which tend to be similar to each other.

Sadly, "JB Weld" has become a brand and not a specific product (much like "Gorilla" brand).

So, there's lots of having to read the fine print.

And, of course, there's Tanker's admonition, that you mix and mix and mix epoxy, like virtually all of the "working life" is spent mixing.

Yeah!

     Thing is, like I said before, The main thing is Mix, Mix, Mix! I even stir it before applying it to the project and if in a container, I mix till I get the last out! This is, or can be a tedious process, But the results are as Curtis-mathis used to say about their expensive Televisions Back in the fifities!! "Damn Well Worth It". The first time I heard that, I asked Dad why they were swearing on T.V.

      It's like C.A. Most folks don't know that it has very weak shear strength! If you try to pull something apart, straight off, It won't budge .But if you can get ahold of what you need to remove, twist it a little and it will usually come off. With Epoxy properly applied this won't happen. I wiggle the part minutely when setting it in place. This way any microscopic bubbles that might form from introducing the two parts will go away and you get a nice tight bond! Sometimes before it sets up I will tap it gently, hopefully to De-Bubble it any more!

Today I located and purchased Devcon and JB Weld original epoxy. The JB weld came with a/b components in separate tubes. So that is good. The Devcon is in the syringe. They didn't carry the separate tubes.

I did a test and in both cases they have set up hard. Full cure is 24 hours, 12 more to go. But thus far, they both look good and looking like they will do the job for me.

Your just using the epoxy on the battery holder ?

No.  Not just the holder. I will use it to secure the attachment arm/tube to the column, and to the sub.

Have you thought about brass tube and solder to support the sub ?

Actually, I will be using a brass tube for the arm, but no to the solder. Not sure I understand where you are going with solder unless you are thinking of making a cradle of some sort. What are you suggesting?

Within the next day or so I will post an image showing you all where I am going with this. The plan I have should work. I just need a reliable epoxy. The model is not that heavy so its not like a need something that will support a ton. I just need an epoxy better than what I have been working with. 

Your just using the epoxy on the battery holder ?

Have you thought about brass tube and solder to support the sub ?

"Sorry Bakster, I've never used JB Weld."

No worries, Gam. Minor speed bump on the way to the finish line..

"I think I'm explaining it badly, or you are overcomplicating it, or both. I'll make a quick video for you if you want."

 No need for a video, Greg. Pretty sure I get it. 

Sorry Bakster, I've never used JB Weld. I have some Devcon, not sure which type, I've been using for years. It's in two bottles and I do as Greg does- squirt two blobs on a surface and then mix them up good with a toothpick. Then toss the whole mess in the trash when done.

Bakster

If I understand you correctly-- you have both parts in separate tubes? If yes-- then that is an easy deal to mix. That then would be similar to Bob Smith only theirs is in bottles.

Right. I've used the twin-tube thing with a common syringe, and it has worked ok, but I prefer to keep the two completely separate. Just personal preference.

You nailed it on trying to keep the layed down line 'diameters' about the same. As a modeler, you already know your eyes are your best measuring/alignment/general purpose Q.C. device. That works for laying down two lines of epoxy, too. :)

I think I'm explaining it badly, or you are overcomplicating it, or both. I'll make a quick video for you if you want.

Oh, and I strongly agree with TB....mix it, mix it, mix it then mix it more. Cool thing about making it on wax paper, it's easy to see the consistency and know when its properly mixed.

I'm sure you have as much or more experience than I mixing and using epoxy and just got hold of a bad batch or something.

Sorry that my WIP has gone down the proverbial epoxy rabbit hole. But hey-- that is how my threads go. I expect to get past this soon. 

Continuing on epoxy. I found this video that does a good job testing the various brands. JB Weld Original and Devcon Plastic Steel appear to have tested the best. Regarding the JB version I have, it is not the original. Some of JBs other offerings did not test well in this video. Devcon Plastic Steel did well and I might find some locally with both A/B in separate tubes and not the dreaded syringes. That is my next step. I will try the Devcon. It is a slow cure but that is Ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XObmZIbHOzY

Tanker-Builder

Best thing is to run it out in a line and take off whichever is longer, leaving an equal amount behind, then mix the Hades out of it!

Greg

've never had a problem with two-part epoxy drying rubbery or soft. I've never used JB Weld, that I remember.

Me neither and until now. It seems to be a problem with JB Weld. I read several internet posts of people having the issue and TB confirms it as well. 

I usually use the two bottle Bob Smith epoxy. For general use it is ok but I have had bonds fail on me when it was not under much stress. Hence, for this job, my search for something stronger.

Greg

I always mix my epoxy on a sheet of wax paper. I have always used tube epoxy. I lay down a 'line' of epoxy (for lack of a better term) and then lay down another line of hardener next to, and parallel to line 1, trying to make the two 'lines' look as much the same as I can.

If I understand you correctly-- you have both parts in separate tubes? If yes-- then that is an easy deal to mix. That then would be similar to Bob Smith only theirs is in bottles.

The issue with the JB Weld it is the syringe style that pushes both out at the same time. You don't have much control over output, of either. The less viscous side will come out faster than the other. But your method might still work. Maybe lay a bead (both coming out) and then find a section of the bead most equal to each other. Extract that section and mix. That might be a worth a try. For grins... I will try that but I suspect I won't get better results than my last attempt.

Maybe I should just use sprue-goo! :)

Yes!

      The 3-M is expensive. But, I don't have to buy it very often either. Plus it gets used for stuff around the house too! For stuff when I am in a hurry, I do pick up the little tubes! There are some that work better than others. My Landlady got some "Gorilla Glue brand" Works great. Same thing though, Best thing is to run it out in a line and take off whichever is longer, leaving an equal amount behind, then mix the Hades out of it!

I've never had a problem with two-part epoxy drying rubbery or soft. I've never used JB Weld, that I remember.

I always mix my epoxy on a sheet of wax paper. I have always used tube epoxy. I lay down a 'line' of epoxy (for lack of a better term) and then lay down another line of hardener next to, and parallel to line 1, trying to make the two 'lines' look as much the same as I can.

For small batches (for modeling), I use a flat toothpick to mix it. For larger batches (home repair project and such), a craft (popsicle) stick.

Having it on the wax paper allows you to see how well it's mixed.

I'm not sure this helpful, just thought I'd share my mixing method.

1. I did two last night. The first came out rubbery and is still easily depressed with a fingernail. Also—I had imbedded wires in the mix and as of this morning, I was able to easily pull the wires up from the epoxy. Not good at all.
2. I had attacked the second batch as if my life depended on it. Watching to make sure as exact as I can equal amounts came out and then mixing for at least two minutes; folding, wiping, folding, wiping. This batch came out much better and best of all three mixes. The epoxy hardened but with two caveats. I am still able to depress it with my fingernail but just barely. Interestingly— epoxy on the mixing stick is softer compared to the mix on the cardboard. Guessing it has to do with mixing and not mixed as thoroughly.  

Hi! Bakster

       Listen, I just recently repaired some damaged stained glass pieces for my lady friend. I too had that problem with JB WELD. The dispenser didn't want to dispense exactly equal amounts. Some was Too Hot" ( set up too quick) or Not Hot enough(Remained Rubbery) I have since gone back to my 3-M two part epoxy system. Two cans, Exactly what I want every time! I use a honey device and drip what amount I want in a measuring cup(Plastic) and then mix well, apply let harden and proceed with the project. I use a flexible plastic cup because, after it sets up, all I have to do to release the dried up remnants  is squeeze the cup and it falls out in my hands!

Looks cool Bakster!!!! 

Maybe let the JB Weld dry overnight or even a few days? I'd had epoxy that was supposed to dry in a half-hour or so take a lot longer. Overnight should be safe in any case. 

Tanker-Builder

I wonder!

     Could you possibly Put a chunk of the End Gable of the Building that the Columns supported, behind the sub,Thus making a port to run the Electronics through and into the sub which could be supported by Three,Yes! Three Polycarbonate clear rods?? The suspension by the method also would allow you to tone the rods and virtually make them disappear behind the sub.

 

Hi!

That sounds like that will work TB, but I don't think I need to go that route. You will see what I mean when I get to it. I think my plan is sound. I just need to be careful not to damage any PE and/or the harpoon assembly.

Right now, my problem is epoxy. I expect JB Weld will hold the battery holder but... its a bit rubbery 24 hours later and I can make marks in it with my fingernail. It is supposed to set in 15 minutes and full cure in 30. At this point, I don't think I wanna hinge my suspended model on rubbery epoxy!

I did some research and others have experienced the same problem. Then again, others say, no, worked great. Those that say it works well claim improper mixing and or mixture may be the culprit. It's possible I erred on both fronts. I noticed that initially the dispenser didn't expel equal amounts, and maybe I didn't mix the stuff enough. I just mixed another batch to see if this time it cures hard. If it doesn't, I may need to seek out a better option.

Sigh. Always something.

I wonder!

     Could you possibly Put a chunk of the End Gable of the Building that the Columns supported, behind the sub,Thus making a port to run the Electronics through and into the sub which could be supported by Three,Yes! Three Polycarbonate clear rods?? The suspension by the method also would allow you to tone the rods and virtually make them disappear behind the sub.

keavdog

Very cool.  The electronics alone are super fun.

 

CapnMac82

I'm digging the columns, it's "on theme" for so mny of the depictions to Nautilus. The recognition ought to be near-instant, too.

Yea! I am glad you agree with my madness!

CapnMac82

To those tht are you as well as those of an age to flashback to Ray Harryhausen movies.

Dodgy

 Ah mate, I'm hanging to see what you do with this.

Dodgy

 

I'm digging the columns, it's "on theme" for so mny of the depictions to Nautilus.

The recognition ought to be near-instant, too.

To those tht are you as well as those of an age to flashback to Ray Harryhausen movies.

Double-handy got housing switches, too.

Tanker-Builder

See!

    I knew you would figure this out!

 

The hard part will be attaching the boat to a column. I am attaching it to a column so that the attachment won't be seen from the viewing side. The boat will appear as if floating. I will use a tube to anchor both the boat and the column, wires fed through the tube and down through the column. Gluing the boat and column in a way that it won't sag, holding its own weight over time, and doing so that it is aligned the way that I want it. Then-- flip the whole thing over and solder wiring to the switches. And all this... without anything breaking. It will be a delicate dance! For sure... some of this will be done in stages, but it will be precarious. 

I have ideas and plans that should solve all the above, but I will need to be extremely careful and lady luck must be on my side too! 

See!

    I knew you would figure this out!

 Ah mate, I'm hanging to see what you do with this.

Dodgy

Very cool.  The electronics alone are super fun.

I am pleased with this aquarium piece because it has the dimensional scale I wanted, it has good detail, and it is hollow. Being hollow makes it easier to run wires, install switches, and hide the battery. Thank goodness it is hollow. I think that this is the first of any of my dioramas where I didn't have to go through major gyrations to route and hide all that stuff.

Below: You can see here that it has a hollow core. And holy smokes, I can even fit a 9 volt battery in there. The metal clip is a simple 9 volt battery holder for another project, for another time past. If anyone would need a few, let me know. I have too many. No charge.

Below: I decided to use a different brand epoxy to mount the battery holder. I usually use  5 minute hobby stuff and more than once the bond has failed me. I have seen folk recommend JB Weld, and that is what I am trying. Fingers crossed for a better result because the holder will take some stress with removal of the battery.

I also drilled holes for the switches and they are installed for test-fit. 

One switch for the side floods, one for the parlor lights, and one for the bow light.

BTW. I plan to repaint the aquarium piece. Though they did a decent job with it, it is not the look that I want. Secondly, the color is far too similar to the Nautilus. 

From here I need to sort out how I will mount the Nautilus. And then I can begin painting it.

End of update.