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Linberg's Captain Kidd - Wappen Von Hamburg FINAL

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, April 1, 2006 9:49 PM
I am starting on the Mast tonight and I see that the directions ask for a Red Crows nest. Is this another suggestion for (kids building the ship) or is this legitament? In case anyone wonders what I am talking about, in another thread, I had asked about some strange colors that the directions was suggesting. As it turned out, some of the odd colors may be contributed to the kit manufacture appealing to childrens lively colors that they might wish for instead of opting for more realistic. But, then again, I am sure that it is realistic in childrens eyes as well. So as a mature ship builder, what about the crows nest? I have that Crimson Red that I used for the inside of my bulwarks that I really like. I could use that same color for the crows nest if that is a realistic option to go to.

Thanks

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    February 2006
Posted by Grymm on Saturday, April 1, 2006 11:20 PM

Donnie, following the popular conception of "red to hide the blood", it might seem logical.  But, what I would suggest, since you've made this build your own vision, is do what is the most pleasing to your eye.  This is a piece you're going to be displaying in your home.  So make it your own.  I don't see any reason why the nest shouldn't be the same color as the mast itself.

Whatever rocks your boat Donnie.  You've done a marvelous job so far.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Sunday, April 2, 2006 8:53 AM

  While I understand the uses of red oxide primer for the lower deck interiors, I can't fathom (pardon the pun) the need for it on a crow's nest.  It would probably have been off white, or painted in a decorative colour.  That ship is going to be awesome!

 

                greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:11 PM
Finally got the Ratlines done. I used the same technique as I did on the JR as far as the Ratlines go. I cut off the ends that go into the openings into the hull. I cut those and replaced it with Black Rigging Line. I did a half hitch knot, twisted the line and held secure with masking tape. Then I used Black Testors paint and painted the rigging line to make the line looked tarred. But, the truth is the tarred look is not what I was going for. I was actually trying to think of a way of that string would be stiff. So I coated it with Black paint. The twist that I made in the lines sorta stayed put. I am happy with it.
This model has been like a job getting it done. the plastic is so brittle. I am always breaking a piece off as I go due to the brittleness of the plastic. I will start tomorrow on the Yards. I am crossing my fingers that I can get this dude done in three weeks !

Enjoy - as always, thanks for tuning in to this project.

Donnie














In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    February 2006
Posted by Grymm on Thursday, May 18, 2006 3:12 PM

Looking great Donnie.   I actually find the ratlines that were included with your kit to be very nice for your build.  I sat last night debating if I was going to use the included ratlines for my Cutty Sark.  Call me nuts, but I decided to try and do my own. 

I bet you're chomping at the bit to get going on the rigging...

Great work.  You're great with a brush...

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, May 18, 2006 4:27 PM
I envy those that do the Ratlines on their own. I wonder how it is done. I guess I need to do a search and find out how everybody is doing theirs. Please share with me your technique.

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:18 PM

  Hands clapping down here in Arizona, my friend!  Stunning work.  I've used a jig to make ratlines before, with limited success...I'm sure the pros here can do a better job of helping out than I can.

                      greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:13 PM

I hope nobody takes offense at the following statement, but I concluded a long time ago that all the various contrivances for faking ratlines - injection-molded shroud/ratline assemblies, plastic-coated thread ones, flexible plastic ones, Heller-style jigs, "loomalines," etc. - are silly.  The Great Ratline Problem, in my opinion, is a hoax perpetrated on the modeling public by kit manufacturers.  The truth of the matter is that, on all but the smallest scales, rigging ratlines is no more difficult than plenty of other tasks involved in building a model.  It takes a fair amount of time, but not as much as most people seem to think - and probably not significantly more than it takes to use most of the aforementioned gadgets.


Over the centuries modelers have come up with two basic techniques for rigging ratlines with thread.  (Wire and photo-etching are other topics.)  One - the "authentic clove-hitch" method, generally preferred by people who have some practice - and just about anybody working on a fairly large scale.  Two - the "needle-through-the-shroud" method, an eminently respectable and somewhat less time-consuming alternative for less experienced modelers and those working on smaller scales.  Here's a recent thread in which we discussed both methods:


http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/620138/ShowPost.aspx


Note the way this thread started and ended.  The orginal poster started with the assertion that he just couldn't do it.  He stuck with it, and within a few days he was describing the process as easy and even relaxing.  That's a common experience. 


There are, of course, plenty of unfortunate people whose nervous systems, muscular coordination, and close-range eyesight aren't up to such tasks.  I would respectfully urge people like that to pick another hobby; this one isn't going to provide the relaxation and satisfaction that hobbies are supposed to provide.  My observation, however, has been that the vast majority of modelers who think it's hard to rig ratlines have never tried it - or have given up without giving their fingers a chance to learn how to do it.  If you can assemble and paint fifty or sixty miniature gun barrels and carriages, you can rig ratlines.


For a small-scale model of a large ship, like La Flore or the Wappen von Hamburg, I'd recommend starting with the "needle-through-the-shroud" method.  I can't see why anybody who's up to the Model Shipways Sultana should have a serious problem rigging the ratlines to scale - i.e., tying the individual knots.  She doesn't have many shrouds, so there aren't many knots to be tied, and the kit is on 1/64 scale, so the knots will be about 3/16" apart.  My guess is that anybody who gets the rigging on such a model to the point that he/she is ready to think about the ratlines will find the actual rigging of them to be downright easy - a job for an evening or two. 


Far more tricky, for me at least, is the rigging of the deadeyes and lanyards.  That's likely to prove the toughest part of the rigging on a model like the Sultana.  But again, because there aren't a lot of shrouds on the model it won't be nearly as hard, or time-consuming, as it would be on a small-scale model of a big ship.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2006
Posted by Grymm on Friday, May 19, 2006 2:26 PM

The Revell 36" Cutty Sark is a great start for me as far as ratlines go.  The deadeyes are premolded plastic, but look good enough to use.  I'll be using the clove hitch method (I've been practicing the knot for a couple of weeks now.  I'm going to do the work directly on the model.  I've got the Heller jig and find it to be more confusing than anything else.  I'm starting on the standing rigging next week.  I'll let everyone know how my ratlines are doing.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:09 PM
These are not the final Pics !

 I will be posting more views with finished model this weekend (maybe Friday late night - depends)  Sorry for the ugly background. I was in a hurry to get something up. I plan to make some nice ones later with better background.  I like the thinner rigging line I used this time around.
Enjoy
Donnie






In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:00 PM
Holy Cow!!!  That looks unbelievable!  Great job,Donnie!
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:22 PM

Donnie,

That has turned out beautifully.  Both the rigging and the sails look just great.  Job well done.

Bruce

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
Posted by Lufbery on Friday, May 26, 2006 7:59 AM
Donnie,

Great job! Thanks for posting the photos.

That short little mast off the bowsprit is a unique feature I hadn't seen before.

Regards,

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, May 26, 2006 9:06 AM
Thanks for the kind words !  Even though it can't be seen, I still have more work to do and will have some final pics up this weekend -

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, May 29, 2006 1:12 AM

For all practical purposes it is finally finished. I only have a very few minor adjustments and things to do (that I am aware of). Thank you everyone for all your attention and kind words of encouragement thru this 5 month build.  This kit was something else. The parts did not fit good and had to wrestle with alot of things. Now, I am not complainiing becuase I learned alot about modeling on this project.  The rigging plans were one page and had to have a magifying glass to even make anything out about it. I just tried to get as much out of this kit as I could.
Thanks again for tuning in !
Donnie
I know that there are alot of pictures, but I am sure that someone out there would want to see as much as possible in case they are trying to build this one too.

















 

 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by jwintjes on Monday, May 29, 2006 4:21 AM
Donnie,

a lovely model indeed! I particularly like the furled sails.

Jorit

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Monday, May 29, 2006 5:37 AM
Absolutely amazing work - I hope one day my sailing ship models will be as good as this! (some hope).
I'll post some photos of my completed Black Falcon soon once I've actually taken them.

Are the ratlines injection-moulded? They actually look quite good, much thinner than the usual.
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, May 29, 2006 8:00 AM

Donnie, that is a wonderful build !  I especially like the way you left the sails somewhat drooping, very lifelike.  Doesn't get much better than that...wow.

 

                greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, May 29, 2006 8:44 AM
Wow!! [wow]Thumbs Up [tup]
Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Nashotah, WI
Posted by Glamdring on Monday, May 29, 2006 2:02 PM
Good heavens, that is one of the most amazing pieces I have seen in a long time.  I can't wait to  see your next project!

Robert 

"I can't get ahead no matter how hard I try, I'm gettin' really good at barely gettin' by"

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, May 29, 2006 3:41 PM
Thank you, Thank you everybody for your kind words. It is taken with humility with the help of all my friends here to help me.
Someone asked about ratlines, well, they are... plastic that came with it.  I am going to give my hand to making my own on the next project (which I am involved in the Sultana Group Build) starting June 10th for those that still want to hop on board.
The rigging surprised me at taking a week to do. Working on it about 3 hours per day for a week. The other parts took 5 months with painting etc, and making decisions.
On the flags in case anyone wonders about that. I took the same tissue paper and taped the tissue paper to a blank sheet of white printer paper. I was really surprised that when I put the paper arrangement in the tray and printed it that it drew the paper up in the printer and printed it without a jam. It shocked me that it worked. I wanted to use the same tissue paper so that I could form it to look more lifelike.
I plan to make my own disply case for this one. My wife works at Hobby Lobby and we already got the glass cut for it. About $22 worth of glass. Not bad.

Donnie
I am in no way boasting about my efforts - again I get my motivation from people here that enjoy building ships of all kinds. I just hope that someone out there that might be building this kit or wants to build it , now you have some documentation to go by.
The kit was a linberg kit from Hobby Lobby and it goes by Captain Kidd. I think that I mentioned this before.
By the way, the rigging line was bought from Hobby Lobby in the Jewelry making department. The have a small clear ziplock bag that has I guess about 7 different colors of line in it. It seemed to already be treated with sometype of coating and it was nice stuff to work with (in my opinion).

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 29, 2006 5:03 PM

Bravo! Thumbs Up [tup]

Now, just imagine, how many modelers will build a plastic model of a sailing vessel, they know it can be turned into such a beautiful piece of art.

Michel

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Paul5910 on Friday, June 30, 2006 3:48 AM
Donnie, SUPER NICE WORK!  I enjoyed the heck out of reading about your build.  I recently started on the same kit and will be useing this thread as a "build guide."  If you have any other threads, either completed or running, would you please list them because I would like to check out those as well.

Paul Fitch

wwj
  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by wwj on Friday, April 2, 2010 6:10 AM

Hi Donnie,

I'm building the same kit -- well actually kits.  I've started two of the Wappen von Hamburg kits, and have four more to go after that.  Why so many?  I plan on using those six plus other kits that I'm building for wargaming the age of sail using the Heart of Oak set of rules.

Your overall job looks really great (wish I had your ship sailing under my command in one of my wargames), just one question though.  I noticed on some of your first pictures that you didn't clean the mold lines off the cannons, any particular reason for this?  I'm taking the time to clean all the mold lines off everything, I've also drilled out the cannon barrels which makes them look even more realistic.

Several years ago I built a number of Pyro's Gota leJon ship kits for my age of sail wargaming.  Most of the lower deck cannons are just molded onto the hull sides, I went to the trouble to drill them out and add short lengths of plactic rod (drilled out on one end) to replicate the cannons plus added the gun port covers.  Made the finished models look alot better.

Anyway I really enjoyed seeing what you did building this kit, looks great!

Winston

  • Member since
    November 2009
Posted by santa on Friday, April 2, 2010 1:20 PM

I enjoyed your build picturs very much, I wish more plastic sailing ship modelers would make threds like yours.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, April 3, 2010 10:03 AM

Katzennahrung



I am not an expert on the subject. However, what I have red is as follows: red color was sometimes used along the inner sides since in battles bloody crew members were not that uncommon.

Would be interesting to hear whether it is legend or myth or does it have any realism?

Regards,
Katzennahrung

 

This has been kicked around a lot in other ship modeling groups, and the consensus is that it is probably myth.  One good reason for the red paint was that it was iron oxide (barn paint) and a very good preservative at very a very cheap price. It was used in a lot of places on ships, and a lot of places on non-ships as well until more modern paints came along in mid-nineteenth century.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, April 3, 2010 10:25 AM

I think Mr. Stauffer has it right.   It appears that a dull red, oxide-based paint was used as a primer for all sorts of stuff in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.  Navy people may well have figured that the "camouflage" effect would be an additional advantage.  And it's obvious that the red paint was considered decorative.  (The researchers in charge of restoring H.M.S. Victory have concluded that the muzzles of her gun barrels, the insides of the gunport lids, and the edges of the ports themselves were painted red - but the rest of the gun barrels and the insides of the bulwarks weren't.  Why?) 

From the standpoint of the modeler interested in accuracy, the bottom line seems to be that the inboard works of seventeenth- and eighteenth-century warships were indeed often (though not invariably) painted red.  And it probably was a dull, flat "red ochre," rather than the bright, glossy red one often sees on models. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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