PT Boat Colors

Garth, your startement about the 109 beiing cut "in half" as in starboard to port, is incorect. The 109 was hit almost head on, striking to the right of the bow.  There is a drawing by JFK himself depicting this.  I would post it if I could figure out how to do it.  

Measure 31/5P would be attractive, as would the Thayer Blue used in Measure 16 I believe.

Garth

weebles wrote:

My don't we argue over these colors.   With respect to the photos Drew spoke about I found that 3 parts of 5NG and 1 part of Tropical Green from WEM give a very convincing representation of what is shown in the photos.  Spare the comments about color shifting please.  These boats weathered hard and fast. There were a lot of camo schemes on PT's.  If you hunt around on the web you'll find many.  There are also some very good reference books.  But if you want to make it your own that's cool too.  Have fun Dave

My don't we argue over these colors.   With respect to the photos Drew spoke about I found that 3 parts of 5NG and 1 part of Tropical Green from WEM give a very convincing representation of what is shown in the photos.  Spare the comments about color shifting please.  These boats weathered hard and fast.

There were a lot of camo schemes on PT's.  If you hunt around on the web you'll find many.  There are also some very good reference books. 

But if you want to make it your own that's cool too. 

Have fun

Dave

PTConsultingNHR wrote:

.....if that's true, then that dream I had with Jessica Simpson, Britany Spears, Jolene Blalock and I last night must be true too. Garth

I have got to get me some of those dreams......LMAO

Hi Drew,

Yes, that's right.

We agree to disagree on the 109.

But, then again, we CAN agree that she was rammed and sunk by the IJN AMIGIRI on the night of August 1/2, 1943.

Ballard contends the wreck is intact under the sand, except for a gash in her side.  Hogwash people.  The crew had always said (from day one) that she was cut in half, the pilot of that PBY reported half of an upturned boat on a reef, Evans reported wreckage on a reef that was approximately 40 feet in length (1/2 of 80 feet).

But, Ballard says she lies intact in deep water, UNDER the sand?  No debris field except for one torpedo tube, ... one torpedo tube does not constitute an entire wrecksite.  I suspect if someone would search for that reef that pilot and Evans saw wreckage on, that they might find more conclusive debris, possibly even something that identifies it from the 109.

I do not believe and have not believed that Ballard found her.  I am sorry but everything about that expedition bothered me to no end.  It flies in the face of everything I was taught to do in Archaeology!  Oh .... I found a single torpedo tube, it's from the 109.  Oh, ... it has wood on its bases, that means the entire intact wreck lies beneath it ... but I can't disturb the sand because it's a war grave and I must call the Senator to get permission to blow a little sand away from the base to confirm my theory about the wreck being intact?  WTF people?

A welded steel tube with a 2,000 pound torpedo in it would not pull away pieces of decking as it was torn away from the impact of a Destroyer smashing into a mahogany hull going at 35 knots and the wooden boat was going at the most, 5 knots and it was only a glancing blow?  Yeah, OK.  Well, if that's true, then that dream I had with Jessica Simpson, Britany Spears, Jolene Blalock and I last night must be true too.

Garth 

To everyone who have posted.  Thanks very much for your information - it has been a great help so far.  Hull color and lightened hull color for topsides has been applied.  Will be masking to spray the anti-fouling color tonight......hopefully.  I do have a question though regarding washes and weathering.  All paint applied so far has been Model Master enamels and eventhough I am quite pleased with the color on the topsides, I think it may benefit from a wash.  Any suggestions as to what I should use such as an acrylic and if so, what color?  How do I make the wash?  As for weathering, suggestions would also be appreciated.  I could probably do some drybrush "scum" around the top of the anti-fouling/lower hull area but after that, I am not sure what else would be appropriate.  Once again, your suggestions would be quite welcome.

Rod

rodc wrote:

Wow Modeling Manic.........real nice work......... What color green did you use? RODC

Many thanks for your kind compliments, rodc!

My modeler "Niphon" used industrial paints and he mixed the major colors (Red Yellow Blue Black White) into desired colors including this green. So there's no specific color code for this green.

BTW, I have 16 more pictures of the PT-956 in this page that you may enjoy:

PTConsultingNHR wrote:

Modeling Manic? I like your 596.  Very nice work sir. Garth

Thanks so much PTConsultingNHR, for your kind comments!

BTW, my nickname here is "Model Maniac", not "Modeling Manic". There's some difference between them. If you search google for the latter I don't know what you will find, but if you search for the former you'll always find my site at the Top of the list!

Yes, the one boat that I know of, and have a photo of, PT-199, was painted in MOUNTBATTEN PINK during a point in time when she operated in the English Channel, I also believe that John D. Bulkeley commanded her for a time during this period, though I'm not 100% certain of that, but she was MOUNTBATTEN PINK.

As for the Adaptor Scheme (i.e.: Zebra Scheme), two Squadrons (10 and 15, one Elco, one Higgins) had their boats painted in the Adaptor Scheme.  Squadron 10, the  Elco squadron was  sent to the Pacific and the Higgins squadron, Squadron 15 went to the Med.  I know of no squadron of PTs (other than the Training Squadron - Squadron 4) that operated in the Atlantic.  From what I can determine, the boats of Squadron 10 lost their stripes soon after they reached the Solomons, Squadron 15 kept their boats in the stripes for a little while longer than Squadron 10.

Garth

I can recall that somewhere in my military book and magazine collection that I have an account of PT boats and British boats operating around the the English Channel that were painted pink on all vertical surfaces and dark gray on all horizontal surfaces, the pink supposedly took on the color of whatever the water was at the time. Apparently, it was quite effective but caused a morale problem among the sailors having to serve on these "pink" boats. I'm sure I have a picture somewhere also. I'll keep looking.

Also, there were a number of boats painted in "zebra" camoflage and they served in the Atlantic, Mediterranean, and Pacific theaters. The pictures I have show that there were quite the variations in stripes and layout. Again, I think I have all the pics in a folder somewhere.

Wow Modeling Manic.........real nice work.........

What color green did you use?

RODC

Modeling Manic?

I like your 596.  Very nice work sir.

Garth 

Thank you Rodc, ...

Funny you mentioned PTs in pink.  PT-199 was painted MOUNTBATTEN PINK while operating in the English Channel and I do have photographic evidence of this too.

I realize that you are doing it the way you like it, and that's FINE BY ME SON, but just remember that the 109 did not have disruption stripes.

If you'd email me at PTConsultingNHR@aol.com, I'll send you photos of three of the Revell kit that two guys built for me ... the 171, the 174 and the 556.

Garth 

Green is a great color. Everyone want to go green, you ask Al Gore. I really like this tone of green, it's so lovely. Like no other ships, my sister-in-law said the color of this ship is beautiful:

Thanks for this Garth.  OD green it will be!  I may actually use a little lighter shade of OD to put some disruption stripes and I think I will add the boot.

My motto is build them the way you like them.........provided of course the PT doesn't end up pink or something foolish like that.

I had a good look through your site...........pretty impressive.  By the looks of things, you are one serious PT lover.  Keep up the good work..........some great information in there.

Rod

Personally Rodc?

I do not believe that, at that point in time, that PT decks were painted in Deck Green, just the same color as the rest of the boat sir, but certainly with a lot more wear and tear showing on them, obviously.

The OD way?  If you were doing the overall Navy Green - then I'd say yes, that would be a match, although some here would crucify me for saying that.  But, from I understand, OD Green and Navy Green was the same green.  Also, many vets have told me that, if they ran out and Stores did not have any extra?  There were instances where the crews would 'borrow' OD Green from an Army unit or USMC unit.

The Tropical Green way?  Use OD Green and lighten it a tad.

As for the boot stripe?  I say why not, but I don't think the crews would take the time and effort to mask off and paint a waterline.  I've never seen any photos of any PT 'in theater' showing one.  But, it might make a more 'attractive' model.

Garth 

Thanks for all the comments.  It would seem that the general consensus is that the boat was indeed painted tropical green and may have had the deck painted a slightly darker green.

Since I have quite a collection of tamiya acrylics and model master enamels, would anyone know an approximate color from either paint line that would approximate the tropical green?  Does tropical green have a Federal Standard color number? Also, would this boat have had a hull boot stripe?  From what I have seen elsewhere on the net, possibly not but I think a black stripe would really enhance the finished product.

Garth, thanks for the info on the color of the carley floats and the dinghy.  I am thinking I may actually paint those a dark gray.

Once again, historical accuracy is not a big deal to me but I would like to be somewhat close with the overall green color. I looked at a tank I finished with the MM olive drab, and I just cannot see this being the right color for a boat.........just doesn't look right eventhough the box photographs look as if the green is an olive drab.

Thanks guys.....

Rod

Rodc,

PT-109 was either painted in overall Navy Green or Tropical Green with a Copperoyd bottom paint.  Some even say that she remained overall Navy Gray.  I think Tropical Green with a mottled look and weathering would suffice.  But, that's just me. 

Other boats (whichever boat that you want to depict) were painted in various Measures (a section on www.ptboatworld.com deals with these Measures) that would offer you a few other options, even the Adaptor scheme. 

 The guns were gun-metal colored and the Carley float probably would be painted to match the boat, as would the life rings (although, those MIGHT have been Gray.

Does this help?

Garth 

Hi Tracy,

Well--and I hadn't seen that one! I'll have to pass that one along to Randy, as I'm sure he hasn't seen it either.

Cheers,

John

Well, let's see.... First, Tropical Green was not a mix using Zinc Chromate. The USN WW2 paints were field-mixed. The blues were mixed by mixing 5-TM blue-black tinting paste with 5-U White paint. The greens were mixed by mixing 5-GTM green tinting paste with 5-U. Tropical Green was a field mix using a 50/50 mix of 5-TM and 5-GTM, with 5-U.

The "Adaptor" camouflage--the zebra stripes--did not carry the camo over onto the decks. The decks were painted 20-B Deck Blue. And when repainted in the field, only some of the smaller panels had the white replaced with one of the lighter greens--just as the original design sheet for the pattern used small panes where 5-O Ocean Gray replace the white. It created a shadow effect that further disrupted the outline of the boat.

Cheers,E

John Snyder, White Ensign Models, http://WhiteEnsignModels.come

Oh my, that is an awful disruption scheme.  Sailing on her would give me vertigo!

RODC

Got to love that box art!

Good one sgtmac.........if I even tried to paint that, it would drive me batst crazy!!!

I think I have it settled in my mind how I am going to paint.  Colors will be in the green range with my own camo design - I am not too concerned with historical accuracy and build models for the fun of it.  After my initial color shock, I am actually looking forward to building this one......

RODC