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Question on rigging 1/96 Revell USS Constitution

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  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Question on rigging 1/96 Revell USS Constitution
Posted by 1943Mike on Saturday, July 2, 2011 7:00 PM

I am now on the last page of the running rigging Smile. Even though I've made some more or less minor (IMHO) mistakes and one major mistake, I want to finish this build. I've put too many hours into her and, even with the mistakes, I like the way she looks.

My question has to do with the leech and bunt lines. I want to know how important they are to the model and, is it a cardinal sin to omit them? I'm just not sure I have it in me to be tying more lines to more belaying pins! Big Smile

I thought I might skip them and continue on with the fore and aft running rigging, and the braces.

Any thoughts from those of you who've built this model would be very much appreciated.

Mike Stolting

Here's how she stands as of the moment:

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Allentown, PA
Posted by BaBill212 on Saturday, July 2, 2011 7:14 PM

Mike,     Can't help you with the rigging questions,,, but, I think the ship looks great!

Enjoy the ride!

 

  • Member since
    March 2010
Posted by stcat on Saturday, July 2, 2011 7:30 PM

Do you still have your eyesight?

Man, that rigging is impressive.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Sunday, July 3, 2011 1:23 AM

Certainly not a cardinal sin to omit them.  It's your model.

I've done some sailing in the past and occasionally get obsessive about including every bit of rigging on a model.  Besides driving me crazy and taking away some of the enjoyment, I found that it didn't always add to the appearance of the model.  One of the nice things about rigging is that it's fairly easy to go back and add stuff later.

FWIW, take a look at some of the recent pictures of the Constitution.  It's only partially rigged as it continues to go through it's current restoration.  If someone modeled it in it's current condition, some folks would probably consider it 'inaccurate'.

Nice work so far.

Mark

 

 

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Sunday, July 3, 2011 8:14 AM

Like the man said, truly impressive.

My advice would be to think ahead. Do you think it's likely that, at some point, you'll wish you had done the rest of the rigging? If it will drive you crazy, then maybe take a week (or three) off and work on something else, then come back to it fresh.

On the other hand, if you like the way it looks, and you're worrying about the rest of it only because it's what you're "supposed" to do, don't give it a thought. You've got something to be exceptionally proud of, no matter what!

Greg

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: Loures Portugal
Posted by alexander47 on Sunday, July 3, 2011 9:43 AM

Looks good
The rigging and running of a sailing boat
  only is complete when the sails are mounted

A.Alexandre

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, July 3, 2011 10:01 AM

BaBill212 and stcat, thanks for the kind words.

Mark and Greg, I appreciate your thoughts. I've been looking ahead at the last page of running rigging and maybe I will attempt the leech and bunt lines since they do not seem as daunting as I first imagined. I've taken a lot of time since I began this model (last December) so taking a few more months to complete her per instructions shouldn't be too much of a problem. That is assuming I don't break something unfixable down the road. Yesterday, as I was finishing the lifts and lower sheet and tack lines I broke off the top of the mizzen mast including the flagstaf stay and top backstays. It's a real challenge to hold pieces together steadily enough to let the CA glue set. I also pulled out the starboard fore pinrail trying to tighten a line on a pin Embarrassed. With both hands clutching tweezers I was able to reglue it without a problem. I only hope my luck holds out to the finish of this build.

Mike Stolting

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, July 3, 2011 12:31 PM

It's certainly not a cardinal sin to omit the leechilnes and buntlines from a model without sails.  The leechlines and buntlines are used to furl the sail; the leechlines lead to the leaches (sides) of the sails, and the buntlines to the bunts (feet).  If the sails were removed for any length of time, the bunt- and leachlines are too.  Plenty of excellent models (without sails) don't include these ropes. 

This kit's instructions (like every other plastic sailing ship kit's instructions, so far as I know) tell the modeler to complete the assembly of all the masts and yards before starting the rigging.  Bad idea.  It makes far more sense to "rig as you go."  Step the lower masts, with the tops in place, and rig the lower standing rigging.  Add the topmasts and rig the standing rigging for them (if the lower rigging somehow interferes with the fitting of the topmasts, you've done something wrong), and so on.  When it comes to the yards, I find it easiest to rig them - as much as possible - secured temporarily to a dowel clamped in a vise on the workbench.  You can attach all the necessary blocks, rig the footropes, and, if you like, secure all the lines that need to be secured to the yard before you get it anywhere near the model.  You'll find that this method also breaks up the inevitable monotony of rigging a bit.

Your busted-loose pinrail is a standard hazard of that kit.  Next time, consider two options:  either glue a reinforcement piece of plastic strip or wood to the bulwark under the pinrail (the coils of rope on the pins will hide it), and/or reinforce the joint with metal pins (or pieces of piano wire). 

The bottom line is that, as others have pointed out, it's your model.  And the pictures show that it's a mighty impressive one.  There are plenty of ways to interpret various features of a ship model - especially if the subject is one like this, which has been the subject of so much research and argument over the decades.  It's clear that you have a model you can be proud of.

Good luck.  You're certainly into the home stretch.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, July 3, 2011 12:31 PM

As A. Alexandre said, to be perfectly true to scale, much running rigging would not be rigged without sails.  But, there is an old tradition in ship modeling that naval ships are frequently displayed sans sails, but with topmasts and above erected, all yards in place, and much of the running rigging in place.  That tradition does not, to my knowledge, have any written documentation.  So what running rigging you use is more or less up to you.  Better to omit minor lines than rig them incorrectly, in my opinion.  Lifts, halyards, braces are almost always depicted- beyond that is sort of optional.

BTW, model looks really sharp!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, July 3, 2011 3:43 PM

Yeah, without sails, I'd skip bunt and leach lines.

Besides, you will have more than enough on your plate rigging the braces.

And, braces are an excellent candidate for rigging "backwards."  That is, starting from the belaying point and then to where they terminate.  That will let you snug up the lines out where there is a little bit more room to work.  Mostly.

Nice touch painting the lanyards on the deadeyes, too.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Sunday, July 3, 2011 5:19 PM

Mr. Tilley, Mr. Stauffer, and CapnMac82,

Thanks for chiming in! Indeed all of you have answered my question regarding the leech and bunt lines. I'll have to take a few days to think about whether or not to include them.

It's very gratifying to have heard from so many of you whom I consider knowledgable on the subject of model ship rigging. My sincere thanks.

Of course, when I'm done with the "Connie" I have my newly acquired 1974 Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark to work on. This is becoming quite a journey!

Mike Stolting

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: Loures Portugal
Posted by alexander47 on Monday, July 4, 2011 8:00 AM

Mike

Here is an advice not to break very long extremities mast

Reinforce the parties with iron wire ( 0.5 a 1.0mm «»0.002 "a 0.004")

 

Here are two examples: in the main mast and the bowsprit

A.Alexandre

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Monday, July 4, 2011 8:44 AM

alexander47

http://pt.fotoalbum.eu/images1/201106/183655/623631/00000002.JPG

Mike

Here is an advice not to break very long extremities mast

Reinforce the parties with iron wire ( 0.5 a 1.0mm «»0.002 "a 0.004")

 

Here are two examples: in the main mast and the bowsprit

A.Alexandrehttp://pt.fotoalbum.eu/images1/201106/183655/623631/00000001.JPG

 

Isn't that similar to what the Iron bands on the masts and the bowsprit were intended for on the real ships?

 

And are those craft beads in place of the block and tackle on the rigging of your ship?

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Monday, July 4, 2011 11:09 AM

Alexandre,

Thanks for the tip. If I could hide a stiff, straight piece of wire inside the skinnier sections of top masts lengthwise, I'd give it a try. I just haven't figured out how to do that yet.

Mike S.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: Loures Portugal
Posted by alexander47 on Tuesday, July 5, 2011 3:51 PM

Mike

The operation of reinforcement does not have to be hidden but perfect and achieved before mounting the stays and rigging hangers lifts

(It is my opinion)

Each case is different for each of them has to use imagination

 

A. Alexandre

  • Member since
    March 2012
Posted by Novice27 on Thursday, March 1, 2012 3:16 PM

Hello, I recently acquired a 1/96 Constitution that was missing ALL rigging ( threads and ratlines) and am trying to research what I need before I even touch the rigging on her. Can anyone give me an idea of the 6 thread sizes I will need ( Black and Tan, small, med. and large) as well as how I can replicate the ratlines? MIke, your ship looks great! I hope i can get mine looking even HALF that good!

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Friday, March 2, 2012 4:24 PM

Novice27,

Thanks for the compliment.  I wish I could help but I honestly don't know the thread "sizes". All I did was go to the local sewing shop (Jo-Ann Fabric and Craft Store) with the thread that came with the kit and look around for the closest approximate size and color I could find. I just couldn't use the stuff that came in the box. It was too difficult for me to work with for much of the rigging.

You might give a look to pp 66 - 69 on this thread: http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13090&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=650

This guy is rebuilding the Revell 1/96 CS into a generic clipper. I think he's doing a fabulous job and the build log is fun (for me) to read. He does talk about some of the thread sizes so it may be of some help.

Best of luck with your build,

1943Mike

 

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, March 3, 2012 9:53 AM

Novice27

Hello, I recently acquired a 1/96 Constitution that was missing ALL rigging ( threads and ratlines) and am trying to research what I need before I even touch the rigging on her. Can anyone give me an idea of the 6 thread sizes I will need ( Black and Tan, small, med. and large) as well as how I can replicate the ratlines? MIke, your ship looks great! I hope i can get mine looking even HALF that good!

Not using a jig, but hand tying the ratlines, is a much better way to go on a model of that size.  You do not need to use  clove hitch knots, simple overhand knots do fine.  Just eyeball the thread size, it is not super-critical. You can use a little strip of stripwood to get the spacing between ratlines, but after you get one mast done, the spacing will become second nature and you can probably toss the stripwood for the other masts.

The ratlines are probably the most tedious, repetitious task on a sailing ship model.  Just do not try to do too many in one session.  I find I cannot work at such a tedious task for more than a half hour at a time.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Monday, March 5, 2012 1:43 PM

During her last restoration, they used fifteen different sizes of standing rigging and nine sizes of running rigging on the real Constitution.  That would be pretty difficult to duplicate in any scale.

The Model Expo 1/76 wooden model supplies six different sizes of rigging with the kit, ranging from 0.005" to 0.051" dia., but the instructions say that the builder will need to get more at some point.

As Don suggested above, the best approach is to probably just  "eyeball" the size of the thread depending on the application.  Using different diameters of thread ( as much as practical) is definitely going to look more realistic. 

As a general rule of thumb, the standing rigging gets smaller the higher you go up the masts.  There should also be a significant difference in the diameters of the shrouds and ratlines.   

I would agree with Don's suggestion that hand-tying the ratlines (although requiring time & patience) produces the best results. 

Mark

FSM Charter Subscriber

PSB
  • Member since
    January 2016
Posted by PSB on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 8:33 AM

alexander47

 

Mike

The operation of reinforcement does not have to be hidden but perfect and achieved before mounting the stays and rigging hangers lifts

(It is my opinion)

Each case is different for each of them has to use imagination

 

A. Alexandre

 

 

alexander47

 

Mike

The operation of reinforcement does not have to be hidden but perfect and achieved before mounting the stays and rigging hangers lifts

(It is my opinion)

Each case is different for each of them has to use imagination

 

A. Alexandre

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 1:08 PM

Am I the only one who can't make heads or tails out of the previous post? PSB, maybe you could try again?

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 2:59 PM

No, John, I can't understand it either.

Mike

 

 

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 3:40 PM

With all respect to others opinions, I don't see external reinforcement of spars giving good results. Even on my Viking ship, I found it easier to just make a new one out of wood. I'm from the school of making round tapered spars out of square pieces of wood because I find it much easier to monitor progress. Others prefer to start with a dowel.

And if the plastic parts are used, there's still that seam to deal with, which can get problematic in between mast bands, etc.

Another reason that I don't tackle plastic ship kits much, unless I plan to replace all of the spars.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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