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Airfix HMS Prince & Wasa comparison

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  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Airfix HMS Prince & Wasa comparison
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:58 PM

  I am still working on the rigging on the Wasa, but I get tired of rigging & had to start the Prince 2 weeks ago. I just got to this point today & will quit now & finish the Wasa. Here are some outside shots of the Prince & some that i already posted of the Wasa. My inside shots didn't turn out good , but I will show the ones of the Prince & Wasa together.

   The shot of the rear of the two ships together give you an idea why the Wasa capsized so quick.

   I have an under construction shot of the Airfix Mayflower showing it just together & primed but I will do that later. I found & bought an Ertl/ Imai kit of the mayflower & will probably do it next if it ever comes. He sent it in a huge box about 4' tall & there was $93.53 extra postage on it so back it went & he resent it. I am ready for a little bigger ship kit now & it has decals for the hull trim. That is a salvation for these old, shaky hands.

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, August 16, 2016 5:21 PM

Very nice and impressive detail paint work on both of them.  The "WOW" factor is 10+.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, August 16, 2016 6:11 PM

Excellent work so far!

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, August 16, 2016 7:24 PM

Thanks guys.

  Bill I feel like Goldfinger after painting that thing. I did figure out how to sew sails on and have the threads straight. I can do it with one contiuous thread, or is that not somethng new. My early ones were on a diagonal because I didn't know another way to do it. I knew they should be straight, but I was not going to do individual ones to get them straight.

 The Revenge just moved back a step.

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:37 AM

gene you old fox , most modeler's would kill to be able to fine detail paint like that , both ship's , are absolutely beautiful .

steve5

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
Posted by Staale S on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:58 AM

Ahhh, the Airfix Prince. Lovely ship, this was the first Airfix sailing ship I ever built, at the tender age of eight years old or so. Good times. I'd be happy to buy it again these days (as well as the Heller Glorieux; another set of happy childhood memories) but haven't come across it.

You have done good paintwork on her. But I have to point out that you really ought to paint the central Royal coat-of-arms at the stern in the proper heraldic colours, mainly red and blue with gilt detail, and the supporting unicorn should be white. It was usually done this way on the real ships. Even more so as you have chosen to paint the figurehead.

I saw the original Navy Board 1/48 scale model of Prince in the Science Museum in London some years back. A lovely, lovely thing; the Airfix model is a good representation of it.

  • Member since
    April 2016
Posted by Staale S on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 3:52 AM

The Science Museum model has an all-gilt coat of arms (and everything else) I see, but the proper colours for the arms would seem to be:

Top-left and bottom-right quarter: The French fleurs-de-lis and English lions, quartered. The fleurs de lis are top-left and bottom-right, gilt on a blue background, the English lions top-right and bottom-left, gilt on a red background.

Top-right quarter: The Scottish lion, red on a gilt background

Bottom-left quarter: The Irish harp, gilt on a blue background

The supporting unicorn should be white, with a gilt chain and neckstrap.

It's the royal coat of arms, not of the King Charles II but of his brother James Stuart, Duke of York, for whom the ship was named. Being heir to the throne he was more or less wearing a Prince of Wales hat as well as being Duke of York. Wikipedia has an illustration of his coat of arms that is useful for reference.

The three feathers that sit on top of the quarter-galleries ought to be white as well, by the way. They are "the prince of wales' feathers", another device that symbolizes the name of the ship.

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 8:03 AM

Here are some surviving masterpieces:

from Royal Charles now in dutch possesion ;-)

Royal coat of arms of King William III

Royal coat of arms of King William III

 

XXXDAn

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 8:07 AM

Very nicely done!

If the bottom of the ship is in white, shouldn´t the rudder be also?

 

XXXDan

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 9:01 AM

Staale S & Dafi,  Thank you both so much & those are beautiful pictures & great advice. The only problem with me is ,at nearly 86 my hands shake too much for any real fine work. I seem to be able to handle the gold ok.

  I saw the brit modeler's Airfix Wasa & he painted all the colors & it was beautiful. Years ago I could & did do that, but not anymore. I have been building models since WW2 & still get great enjoyment from it. I can do all the building fine, but the fine painting & rigging stop me, & I try to hold them to a minimum.     Gene

 Dafi, on the rudder, I have heard that they changed them more often, so I thought they would leave them uncoated. I don't know what is right, do you? Let me khow.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 9:09 AM

Steve 5, Your Robert E Lee is a beautiful piece of work & is drawing super praise on everything you do. Your painting & staining are great & your riverboat will be a winner just like all those big, beautiful rigged ships you built.

        How about a little ocean trip to rig some of what I have got done. I can see you now, like a giant spider rigging my ships. I would even furnish the thread and bees wax.

  • Member since
    April 2016
Posted by Staale S on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 9:34 AM

Wow, I must say that the precision of your giltwork is exceptional no matter your age! Especially on such old plastic mouldings, as I remember they were not razor-sharp even back in the late seventies when I built mine.

As for the rudder, models usually show them painted anti-fouling white just like the hull. I don't think they changed them all that often and marine growth would set on really quick on an untreated wood surface.

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
Posted by Staale S on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 9:37 AM

I really like the way you have done the windows on the Prince by the way, they look quite convincing. What is the base colour? 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 10:39 AM

Thanks Staale S , I will paint my rudders from now on like you said. The windows ,I put MM brass lacquer on, & then used Tamiya clear blue ( it looks green) thinned with denatured alcohol, & then wiped it off the raised frames as much as I could. I wasn;t real happy with them, but I left them. I use lacquer as much as I can because then you can wipe other paint off without removing the lacquer. I generally put a cote of Future floor wax over any glass on a model. I put that over the dials on my aircraft too

    Staale, this is the way i used to build in wood, but I don't want to spend all my time on one model anymore.

 I have put this on before, but it is sitting in my living room reminding me, for over 30 years. I think I am having more fun with the plastic ships than I did with the wood ones. I think I was married to the Constituion  for about 6 months. I can finish a plastic one in 3 or 4 weeks & then it's off to a new adventure, buying on ebay is part of the fun or having warship guy give me one.

     Honestly I am more relaxed, & forget the hurts you get with age, while I am building a model then at any other time. 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 10:48 AM

Staale, That MM Gold enamel practicly paints itself. Thats why I like gilt work on ships, it;s easy. 

   Dafi, where is Ludwigsburg? My kids have been in Germany for over 18 years & love it. All there kids were raised there. They were in Hiedelberg, but have moved to Ranstien. They teach with the DOD ay Army bases.

   

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 1:08 PM

Gene, you have one of the most spectacular model collections I've ever seen. The breadth of your achievement is almost staggering.

I especially like the Prince. I have the impression that that kit has never gotten as much attention as it so obviously deserves. You're doing it justice. If you don't go any further with it than you already have, it'll be a fine model.

You've made me want to tackle the kit. I thought I had one in my stash, but I can't find it. I checked E-bay; no luck. Does anybody have any ideas as to where I could get my hands on one? It would be some time before I could get to it, but it really does tempt me.

It's true that the "carved" ornamentation on that kit isn't quite as sharp as that of the Wasa or St. Louis, but it's mighty nice - and Gene's model shows what a well-applied coat of paint can do for it. My only criticism of the kit really is those shallow depressions that represent open gunports, but Gene has demonstrated that if the rest of the model is done well enough, they aren't particularly noticeable.

Gene, I see you're in western NC. If you ever happen to be taking a trip to the eastern part of the state, please consider timing it to coincide with a meeting of the Carolina Maritime Modelers' Association, at the NC Maritime Museum in Beaufort. I know it would be quite a drive, but we'd be delighted to welcome you.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:45 PM

Hy Gene,

Ludwigsburg is near Stuttgart, 1 hour away from Heidelberg :-)

 

Yes jtilley you are perfectely right, this kit is underrated. Another fine rendition is from a german friend shown at Wettringer:

Prince

For comparisson he build another version just as most of us did 25 years ago - strictly following the assembly instructions.

http://www.wettringer-modellbauforum.de/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=58810&pageNo=1

And as already Geneés marvellous model shows - we learned quite a bit since those days :-)

XXXDAn

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 4:18 PM

I love the Airfix Prince, Wasa, et.al.  I just lucked out a few weeks ago on eBay and won the Airfix St. Louis, a kit I once had but sold the completed model.

John, have you checked out  www.oldmodelkits.com?

Bill

  • Member since
    April 2016
Posted by Staale S on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 4:24 PM

Thank you for the link to the German build... it is awesome. Fortunately I can read the language well enough not to have to rely on the sometimes dubious services of Google Translate :)

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 5:39 PM

 John, Thanks for all the praise. I go on ebay if I am looking for something & at the end there is an advanced word that I hit & fill out the list that come up. All you need to put in is Airfix Prince kit & they will email you when anything comes up. I put in Imai/Ertl & have gotten a ton of hits for all their kits  . I have never had a problem with ebay & have sold a lot of things. Till now.

  I got an email on an Imia Mayflower new for $29.95 + shipping, $14. I bought it right away & am waiting for it now. What a nut he must be, he said he mails the minute he gets paid. 5 days later he mailed it & when it got here last week it was in a 4' high box with $93 postage due. I sent it back & it only took 2 days to be back in Calif. 

    He wrote that he had a box ready to ship the minute it arrived back. 6 days later ,he wrote me that 2 days ago he mailed it Fedex. He said his other box didn't fit. This is the first time I have had a problem getting something, but I should know in a day or 2 at the most.  He sent me something in a hugh box, but who knows what. 

  If you ever get over here come see us. We live in heaven on the side of a mountain with the prettiest view in the world . I still have at least 200 fighter planes, maybe 190 cars ,  50 or more different ships & models  all built & in cases. That is except for my latest explosion of fighters & ships.     Gene

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 6:06 PM

Bill, oldmodelkits.com was the first place I checked. He has quite a few Airfix ships, but not that one. It seems to be pretty scarce.

That's a real shame; it's one of the best kits Airfix ever did.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 7:31 PM

John, I got my Prince on ebay, but found it somewhere else first, but found it on ebay after & bought it for $26 shipped. The seller advertised it as used & said he wasn't sure it was complete. He did put enough pictures on of the inside of the box & I thought it looked complete. You can tell a lot by looking close & it was all there.

   I believe it was a bid that started at $20.  I originally found it on some, I think Airfix, list of kits sold in different places, then found it on ebay.  The only thing that was really different was the smooth sails. I know you don't like sails, but I painted them today & it does give them a texture. 

 Do try what I said on ebay about using the Advanced search. I have found 2 or 3 kits in a short time, & found a bunch of others I would like to have.  You could just put Airfix sailing ships & get them all. I just blunder my way thru things on the computer because I know nothing about them, or typing either.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, August 17, 2016 8:02 PM

John, I just thought of another place to look. He has a lot & generally cheaper than Old Models.I found an Imai Santa Maria big kit there.

   He is   Charles Kucera   " Charlies Plastic Models"

                                       7303 Sandhurst Dr NM

                                         Cedar Rapids Ia 52405                             

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:38 PM

I've seen a few on eBay as well.  I have been lobbying Airfix to re-release the Prince and the St. Louis but they haven't responded.  Oh, well,I will keep trying!

Bill

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:49 PM

John,

I just found Prince and Royal Sovereign on eBay and snapped them up.  They are yours if you want them.

Bill

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, August 18, 2016 4:54 PM

Bill,

Magnificent! PM me with the amount you paid for them, and I'll send you a check.

The Prince wasn't on E-bay yesterday. You must have struck at just the right moment.

John

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, August 18, 2016 5:18 PM

John,

I saw them and bought them immediately with you in mind.  I did not want them to get away.

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Thursday, August 18, 2016 5:26 PM

I bet John is happy.  That make you a double great guy.  Now you guys have to build & give us pictures. Steve R is doing great on his Robert E. He has really put a nice finish on it. I have never done this with models before & it is really fun. This is a great site.

  I have learned so much here, it is amazing. I am not a perfectionist anymore, if I ever was, I just feel super relaxed down ther building models. 

   

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, August 18, 2016 5:42 PM

Gene,

Thank you.  And, we have certainly learned from you as well!  I have truly enjoyed this site. The people here are exceptional modelers, and they are a delightful group to get to know.

Bill

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Friday, August 19, 2016 6:12 AM

Now;

   Gene , are you trying to say your fingers and eyes got crossed on them ? A very awesome job , sir !         T.B.

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