heller le glorieux 1/150

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got the main and preventer stay's done , real happy with these .

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started some work on the bow sprit , I'm glad you said some english gene , we speak stryne down here

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Perfectly beautiful. You have gotten to be a bear for work, great. Fall's just quicker to say & autumn is prettier.  We speak some english here, & don't mix our seasons up. Your toilets even flush backwards i hear.

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this close up made me realise , I didn't wax the chord , got to be more careful

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I alway's thought it was called autumn gene LOL ! .just a quick pic of how I intend doing the shroud's

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Steve, You people down there have things all mixed up, Fall is ending here. Your work is really super & you are really into a lot of nice detail.  Your pictures are a joy to see even tho you have spring & fall backwards.

the main chain's and bottom dead-eye's

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I was ale to get some work done this afternoon , got the starboard side chainplates on , at least I think they are called that , I used chord . still have to stain the dead-eye's ." />

gene

thank's mate , I really appreciate the comment's.

I don't like using the rigging tool , [could never get it to work properly ] . on the ratlines , I might try don's overhand knot method . it should give a smaller knot , hopefully look more to scale . be a while before I get there though , it's nearing the end of spring here , and the missus want's a fair bit of work done in the garden , we have a large one . I'll post some pic's when I get a chance

 Steve, I meant to ask, are you going to use the rigging tool . If you hand rig the shrouds how will you do the ratlines. If you use the rigging tool, what kind of glue will you use?

Steve, I have been looking at all your pictures & this is one of the nicest models I have seen . All your work is perfect & rigging cannons on one this small is really great. I am lucky to get them glued on. This is even better than anything I have seen . Your gold work is flawless & the deck is too. 

the lower yards going in , will be starting the rigging next

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bill

thankyou , coming from you that means a lot to me.

mike

I saw dmitry's model ,no way was I ever going to be able to copy his, not at this scale anyway . I think i was studying maurice wilcox , who was on pete coleman's , victory site but it crashed unfortunately ., I just went of off what I could remember of his , I'm sure their should be more rigging involved , but at this scale I just wasn't confident enough to tackle it . thank you too for the nice word's .

Steve,

Your cannon and their rigging look fine to my uneducated eye. In which books or what references did you look to find the rigging of the cannon? I can't even remember if the instructions showed how to do it - right now I'm tired and too lazy to pull the box down from a shelf in one of my "stash" closets.

I guess when I get around to building that kit - if I ever do - I'll use this guy's model as a kind of reference for the rigging of the cannon if I can't find it in one of my books. BTW, this guy really seems like a master at model building. His name is Dmitry Shevelev.

http://shipsofscale.com/gallery/dshevelev/french74/index.html

I don't know how accurately he's built his French 74 - I'm sure John Tilley would be able to comment on that, but his technique is, in my opinion, laudable.

Anyway, I'd appreciate knowing how you figured out how to rig the cannon. They look really good to me.

Steve,

What a beautiful ship she is!  I love the job you did on the cannons.

Bill

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they are not great , but I am pretty happy with them

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cheer's dave

decided to have a go at rigging the top deck cannon's . gee they're small , LOL

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Looking good, Steve!

Wonderful!  And, I agree with you about this site.  The people here are most helpful, and they are friendly as well. 

Bill

good on you bill , the main and fore mast's , I was able to strengthen with brass rod insert's , the mizzen is solid . but she's straight now .

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thank's bill , will definately , give that a go , let you know how I get on . that's what I love about site' like this one , their's alway's someone to help , it's just such a pity pete coleman got ripped . it had so much info on it ,

That sounds better than anything Bill. I will try that next time, coming soon, as I never have before. That's one thing you have plenty of with plastic ships. 

Steve,

That is beautiful work!  I always use hot water to heat a warped part before bending it back into shape.  Simply run hot water from the faucet and hold the warp under it for around 30 seconds, then bend it back to shape.  It works every time!

Bill

gene

cheer's mate , and no never did work it out , all I know is not to use humbrol clear over copper again LOL

rob

thank's mate ,still got a long way to go , but having a ball .

Coming along nicely Steve...good patient work.

Rob

Your copper color looks perfect now. Your ship looks better each time you show it. You are really doing a beautiful job. Did you ever figure outwhat went wrong with the last clear finish you put on the copper ?

long view

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thank's mark , really liking your build too mate ,

added some stanchions to the top deck , they are a bit over scale , but my daughter in law love's them , the boat is for her so , on they go .

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added a weak green oil wash to the coppering

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Your Build is coming along very nicely indeed Steve. Watching with keen interest....Cheers mark

Steve, you do have to go a "little" further than me. Man that is a ride to the hobby shop, but worth it. On your Mizzen mast, I have straightened them out pretty well by very gentle bending. Or you can heat them a little with a blow dryer. I have one on a shelf next to my model desk. I use it a lot.

to all the good modeler's out their , how would you straighten this mizzen mast please , only just noticed it , help please .

gene

 how wrong you are . I am off this weekend to brisbane , 250k's away the closest hobby shop too me . but I think it is one off the biggest in aus .

bill

thank's for that , will have to look into it .

as a side note it was sad to see pete coleman's site was hacked , hope he get's it sorted , lot of valuable info there .

Bill, it is a problem when you are so far from a hobby shop. I do order most everything from ebay, but I do like to see some paints before i buy. I bet Steve in Australia is closer to a shop than me.I have never used Vallejo paint, but I have 7 million bottle of paint now.

1.      Gene

I recommend checking the "Old and New Wood Color Effects" set of acrylics by Vellajo.  I am very happy with them!

Bill

David K is the color man. He is better with colors & knows what he used better than anyone. He is a real artist of a modeler. He was very helpful to me. Your work is better than ever & the way this is going , it will be a beauty.

gene

I got it from davidk , MM tan , with an oil wash of burnt umber .

Steve, your deck color looks real good. What paint & color is it ?

I'm planning on not omitting the gun tackle's , the cannon's are a lot smaller than the upper deck gun's , it's just seeing how my 8 other thumb's , you call finger's , if they are up to the challenge . LOL .

Hi Steve ,

deck color looks nice!

Good luck with top deck guns arrangements!

Did You found the way how to imitate gun tackles? or it will be omited?

I'll try better on the top deck guns mate

Hi Steve,

You are right!...it was just was interesting, how this thing need to be done in the right way... found exelent picture made by famous modeller Otte Blom...just for more information :)))  " target="">

to be totally honest kirill , it was only a token effort , as you will barely see them , with the top deck on and the boats to go in . sorry mate .

I put the top deck in loose just to show you what I mean kirill , at least this photo sort of sshow's the deck colour better

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Good day Steve,

Thanks for your attention and comments in my building... yesterday, watching/studing your bulding , in particular ,looking at your gun leads...I found that I did some mistake ,when I drilled holes for leads ropes(for opening/closing) and You did the same...their location is wrong...need to be drilled a little bit higher( from techn. point of vew :))) ...with such position ,will be quite difficult to open them... I don't know how much it is critical on the model...but now I began thinking abt to make correction...the only difficult will be to find the way, how to cover/hide former location...???

kirill

 thank's mate , just revisited your spanish galleon . long way to go before I'm in that class , love the way you have done your rope's .

gene

I just super glued the gun port's on , the same with the eyebolt's ,just drilled a hole glued them in and cut the back off . dab of paint you can't see it , I'm sure their's a better way , I just couldn't think of it . I agree with you I am just not that good at the historical side of thing's , I try my best but sometime's artistic liscence take's over . LOL

Steve, your ship looks really great. How did you glue your gun ports on ? What kind of glue ? I am just getting ready to put them on my Airfix St Louis. . 

  How did you put your eyebolts in ? Thanks to John, we know what to call them. I just build them now as I've forgotten what I knew. 

   You have never built an Airfix ship kit, you said. The Heller kits I got really look cast nicely. Very clean & a lot of nice features. I am more interested in the casting than the accuracy of the kit.   Gene

Good Day Steve,

Nice job You did , I'm glad to be here again ,and see how is Your model groving up( hope to stay at home till december and have this possibility)... good paint work You did! Like it!

All the Best!

Kirill

gun port door's on

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I've run some rigging through the 10 cannons seen on the upper gun deck , I'm having your trouble baxter ,the decking colour just isn't coming through .

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what for mr morrison .

I bought a bag of copper eyes frmom Caldercraft some years ago. 100s of them. 

figurehead ready to go on ,

sound's like you got around a bit gene , the hole in the small one's is about .5mm

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Steve, those little copper ones I have are super. They are about the size of your little ones & have a 3/4" shaft. I use them for everything. I have never had one go bad in rigging. I set them with CA. Look on the ship model supply supply places. I probably got them from Model Expo as i used them a lot in the past.

   I even stopped in I beleve New Jersy when Model Expo was up there & bought 2 ship kits. We were coming back from Nova Scotia to Florida. That has been nearly 40 years ago.

the eyebolt on the right is the .8mm , I will use these in the deck . don't know where I got the one's on the left but they will be small enough for the cannon rigging

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your quite right jtilley , they will break , you advised me a long time ago to throw these thing's away , I watched a paul budzig video on u-tube , so I made a couple of tool's for the purpose , this one is a piece of .8mm copper rod in a vice pin .

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I think the fittings being discussed here are generally called eyebolts. (An eyelet, as used in ship modeling, is a stamped piece of metal with a flange on it, often used to represent portholes.

My first piece of advice when it comes to the styrene eyebolts that come in kits is: throw them out. Plastic just isn't a good material for that purpose. The first time you give a line secured to a plastic eyebolt a good yank, the eyebolt will break.

The wood ship model suppliers, like ModelExpo and Bluejacket sell brass eyebolts. Personally, though, I like to make my own out of brass wire. Soften the wire over a candle frame. Then wrap it around a mandrel. If you've got a set of drill bits, #60 through #80, you can make eyebolts as strong as you want to. Twist the ends into a pigtail. The ideal way to mount a wire eyebolt in a plastic deck is to spread the ends apart underneath and superglue them to the bottom of the deck. If you can't get at the bottom of the deck, just superglue the eyebolts into the deck.

The depth of the hole shouldn't make any difference unless both ends of it are visible on the finished model.

Steve, I happened to think,rare, that if you drilled a tight hole & pushed the eyelet all the way thru & clipped it off after close to the hull, it would fill the hole. I always set those eyelets with CA glue. Might work. Also you could experiment with drilling a very shallow hole & CA glue the eyelet into it. There is no strain on them like a shroud. That is why I CA glue the shroud tables to the hull before painting. I even use Tamiya plastic glue first & CA glue after on them.

Steve,

That is a wonderful paint job!

Bill

Steve & Bill, I have had good luck with MM when used over lacquer primer. I always wash my plastic with alcohol before painting. I won't argue with John, but I do have better luck with paints over primer.

 On the eyelets, I have a bunch of very small copper eyelets with a 3/4" shaft that I clip to needed length. I have not tried to drill from inside, but these only take about a #73 drill so the hole might not even show after painting. These are leftovers from my wood boat building days & I don't know where they came from.

 What John says is always interesting, & I don't know anything about what the primer does, it just works. John, could my auto lacquer primer adhere better than other's. I imagine that dope primer would eat plastic wouldn't it? Color lacquer does , but not over primer. 

I've got a query for for all the ship builder's out there , when I put the eyelet's in on the top deck for the rigging of the cannon's , do you drill all the way through  the hull , and patch the outside . if not how do you gauge your drilling depth .

got a bit more painting done

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Gentlemen,

I haven't had any lift issues with enamels, only MM acrylics.  I do use Tamiya masking tape for most modeling paint jobs.  Therefore, I will shift to Tamiya paints on Gene's recommendation. Thanks!

Bill

One thing that helps is to use the right masking tape. The common tan-colored stuff that's used for painting houses is almost guaranteed to rip off any paint under it. Tamiya makes a tape that's designed for models. It has a lower tack, and probably (not necessarily) won't pull off the paint under it - provided that coat is nice and dry. I recently bought, from MicroMark, a couple of spools of tape made by 3M. I haven't had occasion to use it much yet, but it's promoted as being easy to peel and it can take curves nicely.

I think some modelers (I'm not talking about GM, or Don, or Bill) haven't figured out what primer does for them. It does NOT stick better to the plastic than the finish coat. Modern hobby paints are specifically formulated to stick to styrene. If they don't (after reasonable drying time), either the modeler has done something wrong or the particular bottle of paint is defective.

The other benefit of primer is that it makes all the parts under the finish coat the same color. Theoretically I guess that shouldn't matter, in that the finishing coats can cover up whatever color is under them. In practice, though, if you try to paint a piece of black plastic bright yellow, it will take several coats to cover the black completely - and by the time that happens the yellow paint may be so thick that it conceals details. And if you've got some light grey filler on the joints in the black plastic, it will take a lot of coats to obliterate the border between the two. That's where a coat of nice, neutral grey primer really helps.

I'm not suggesting that primer is useless. Far from it. But the modeler needs to be aware that the primer accomplishes some things and doesn't accomplish others.

My most recent major paint job was the hull of the plank-on-solid wood fishing schooner I'm working on. After gluing all the basswood planks to the hull, and sanding them smooth (which took forever), I followed the advice of a modeling friend and gave the whole hull exterior two coats of old-fashioned AeroGloss sanding sealer. (My wife thereby got her first exposure to the delightful smell of airplane dope.) I let it dry for a day after the second coat, scuff-sanded it once more, and painted the bottom with Model Shipways acrylic. Then I waited several hours, laid down some Tamiya masking tape at the waterline, and painted the above-the-waterline planking with Model Shipways "hull/spar black." Worked fine.

This is one area where wood is easier to work with than styrene.

Bill, I hadn't had any problems with acrylics lifting & I burnish any Tamiya masking tape down with a toothpick to get a clean line. I was using most all Tamiya acrylics. When I started using MM without priming they lifted. 

   Now I prime everything with a white or gray lacquer primer. I use white on ships because sometimes it is a final color. The MM acrylics are not lifting now. I spray the spray can lacquer thru a straw into my 1/2 oz airbrush bottles & run it thru my airbrush. The lacquer primer has never hurt the model plastic, but lacquer color will etch it. You can use lacquer color over lacquer primer on plastic ok.

   I do brush a lot of things on ships like the raised boards ( forgot the name of them) & then I just have to mask with a 1/8 piece of tape on each side. MM does brush beautifully. .  

 I never liked Tamiya's primer & I can get a big can of lacquer primer for $5. I use that gray auto 3M type of sanding pad. It is 2000 grit & I got it at Napa.It smooth's the primer out nice.

   I do put a hull completely together with the shroud tables & any structural parts on before I prime. Then I will spray the deck & use the thin masking to hand paint the inside of the ship. Works great that way.I add all the details later. I also use that white Formula 560 canopy glue for anything like cannons , because it sticks good o painted surfaces.

It is a problem. With enamels, when I have paint lift problems I look on the back of the chips stuck to the tape because that shows what failed to hold. It tends to be the primer, not holding to the plastic. Attention to clean plastic, solid application of primer, adequate drying time helps.

With acrylics, I get more problems with one color coat not bonding to another.

Im not sure what the solution to that is. The best bet I have is to really reduce the sticky of the tape to near zero, and not leave it on for very long.

One issue that I have had by using acrylics is that they lift off easily when I try to remove masks between my colors. But, I love using them simply because they are less obnoxious for my family than the odors given off by enamels and lacquers.  I have tried using a layer of clearcoat, but it doesn't work for me. Any suggestions?

Bill

gmorrison

did not know that , thank's

mike

thank's for that ,I can't wait for you to start one as well .

I really like the colors you've chosen. The colors look very regal to my eyes.

You're doing a great job on this kit!

I'm anxious to start one of my 1/350 ships but I still have a week or two to finish a TA-4F Skyhawk I'm building for a friend of mine. Then back to ships!.

Enamels dry from the inside out.

Acrylics dry from the outside in.

Either way wait a day.

bill

I will keep my finger's crossed for you

gene

yes they are acrylic , it's funny though they take a couple of hour's to dry . can't complain though the price was right . thank's for the nice word's too mate . almost forgot I used tamiya gold leaf .

Is that acrylic paint & how does it work for you.? Looks to do real good. What kind of gold are you using? Again, your paint job is perfect. 

Steve,

Thanks! I appreciate the thought.  The Navy put me through their five-week PTSD/TBI program this summer, and I did well in that environment. But, they will follow up again early in November with a full quarter completed in school.  I have had several problems that I will need to share at that time.  Perhaps they will decide full disability and I will be able to build model ships full time.  We'll see.

Bill

not so bill , feeling a bit down last night , I was also sorry to hear what happened to you , hope your getting well mate .

gene

unfortunately not any time soon , would love to see your collection , and meet yourself .the blue is from of all place's ALDI $2 a bottle , 60ml , couldn't help myself bought $10 worth . they're not bad .

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Try not to Gene, because some of the comments definitely wandered out of bounds for the forum rules.

That makes it hard for the rest of us to enjoy the site without the stress of everyday life.

Bill

Absolutely beautiful Steve. Is that all Tamiya paint & what color? This is going to be another beauty. When are you coming here to rig for me? I could sure use you. Sorry we have used your site for our personal talks, but we get carried away.   Gene

Steve,

My bad. I apologize!

Bill

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don't know if this is still my thread , see how these go .

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Hooray, Bill that is the most hopeful news I have heard in ages. That is what we need is strong laws,enforced. At nearly 86 I have never had a car wreck, never had a ticket & never had anything but help from cops. Thank goodness for a decent law enforced.

                                   Gene

Gene,

Unfortunately for her, Connecticut had just passed a law making an assault on a Senior Citizen (defined as anyone 60 or over) a Class 1 felony. Yes, she is in prison serving a long sentence. I had turned 60 two weeks before.

Bill

I just read your post Bill & that is horrible. All 4 of our girls & 3 of their husbands are teachers & we worry about that kind of thing happening with them. I bet the girl is not even in jail. She ought to be in prison for life.

I think the law protecting people in this country is gone. I know the FBI & the Justice Dept are gone. I have always respected cops & one of our son in laws retired as a Sheriff's LT. after 30 years. You ought to hear him talk about the weakness in our law system.

  2 of our kids have taught Special Ed with the DOD in Germany for 18 years & 8 more in Panama. Our SOL & I talked a lot about what they do with a problem kids & in the military they call the parents in & tell them the family will be shipped home if there is more trouble.

   The German schools have it even more right. If a kid causes trouble they go into a special (reform) school & the next time it is jail. They don't have much trouble.

   Again thank you for the St. Louis & I am so very sorry for the harm you went thru.

      Sincerely,  Gene

I attempted to break up a fight outside my classroom on March 9, 2014. As I separated the students (both girls), the one on my right threw herself against me and I lost my balance. Unknown to me, she was a trained and licensed professional boxer.  I grabbed hold of one of her legs as she tried to go over me to continue fighting the other girl.  As I held her leg, she stood over me and hit me over 25 times on the left side of my head, and kicked me 5 times in the same spot.  I have struggled the last 2.5 years with severe loud shrieking in my ears, loss of balance, TBI symptoms, and PTSD.  I have lost over 96% of my hearing.  So, I have a huge case with Workers' Comp that is nearing completion.  These issues have caused me tremendous problems with teaching.

Anyway, I am looking forward to retirement!

Bill

  Bill,  I wrote a long email before on this and lost it. Grrr. I will start the St Louis as soon as it comes. I designed & built custom hmes for nearly 40 tears & the last 10 were tough with all the regulations, that didn't do a thing for the houses. I had a light heart attack & had 4 way bipass at 60. I quit, wasn't ready, but I wanted to live. My brother finished up & he quit too & we both moved up here. He was battleship sailor in WW2.

  Three months after my surgery we moved to NC & I built our house & then a neat train layout & the last 25 + years have been the best in my life. Building models every day, target practice, reading. You will love it. Do it. You will be surprised at how well you can build when you are old & I am shaky as a dogs tail.

   What was the beating you took? How bad was it ? 

    Gene

Gene,

Although there is no stated scale on the box, the Saint Louis by Airfix is a larger kit than their Prince.  I believe the Prince is around 1/180; the Saint Louis seems to be around 1/144.  And, I concur fully with John.  I am 62, arthritis is setting in, and, if I do anywhere near as well as you are doing at 86, I will count my blessings.  Your work is inspirational!

I am currently in the middle of a Workers' Comp case based on the beating I took over two years ago in my school.  I may be joining you both among the ranks of the retired sooner than I had expected.  If so, I will then dedicate my time to building up to your very high standards of artistry!

Bill

John, That is so nice to hear for a crazy old, treacerous man that can't & won't work hard anymore. You know age is not so bad on building a model, but rigging & fine painting are hit hard. I will have to send you some pictures of my train layouts. I built at least 7 of them from 1956 to 1993. They were a passion with me. I have pictures of the last 2 & they were really neat. I did old steam engines & geared engines & narrow guage too. I stuck with logging & mining . We went thru a ton of old gold mines in Colorado & took pictures of logging all the way out to Vancouver. 

        That was the fun, with my wife & I we took pictures of trestles, gold mines & old buildings that I would scratch build them for my layouts.

     Thank you again for the nice words, & Warship guy is sending me a St Louis kit & I will start it the moment it gets here. I know you got one from him too. Let me know how yours is coming. I will race you on it. That is one I have really wanted. It is a smaller ship than the Prince isn't it?  I love the French Blue & white colors. I just got them from Hobbylinc today. 

       Thanks again,   Gene

Gene, your work is truly inspirational. I'm 65, and I know my models aren't as good now as the ones I built 20 or 30 years ago. If, 20 years from now, I can come anywhere close to the quality of work you're doing now, I'll be a proud and happy man.

Steve, what kind of paint was the copper What kind is the Humbrol. That is lacquer, enamel, or acrylic ? Although I use Dullcote or gloss lacquer over everything. Were those copper plates you had put on the hull or is that the Heller copper plate casting.. I usually don't gloss over my paint before I wash. I used to at time, but it was MM gloss lacquer ( Metalizer sealer). I just have very few paint problems. 

   I even discovered I could use automotive lacquer over a plastic car if I primed it with lacquer primer first.

Thank you again Bill. At nearly 86, my hands do get shaky & I can't paint like I used to. I do appreciate your kindness. Sometimes now I get a little worried that I won't get all my models finished .

I meant to ask Steve if he had the rigging tool or the ready made shrouds. I am determined to find a glue for the rigging tool. Steve if you have the tool, start early on the shrouds so you can each one a good day to dry. I will let you know if I find the right glue. Right now my Forula 560 white glue is at the top. next is some form of super glue, or maybe a combination of the two.

Steve, I would say  about 10% color & nearly a full 1/2 oz bottle of spirits thinner.  I always try it on a smalll place at the bottom. You can wipe it off or down with spiits.I got some 2000 grit pads like 3m pads & do a lot of sanding or wipe over with them I got them at Napa Auto. They are for final sanding on cars.They come in a 10" sq. pad.

    Steve, I always use MM gloss or Dullcote or a mix of the two.I  put it on over everything with no problems. Over enamel, acrylic Tempera, or laquer & I use them all on the same model.

    Steve try that Purple Power cleaner. Thin it with water. It never hurts plastic, in fact it comes in a plastic bottle.Sometimes you have to let it sit for a while. That is why I put that Rolls Baloon car on. It was a real mess when I got it. It was clean enough after Purple to paint with Tamiya lacquer.

 Purple Power does come by a different name, or is like Purple. Your Superbe is beautiful. I spray my sails with a raw umber mix after I paint them. I try to go a little heavy in the creases.My umber is also about 10%.I use a very light spray at a distance on the sails.

Gene,

After correcting the foretack bumpkins, that will be one fine first rate First Rate!  I have to say that I am envious of your painting skills.  You should write a book.

Bill

gene , how weak did you make your wash ?

would some body be able to explain to me what happened here , I sprayed it with humbrol clear , before I oil washed it , and this happened , couldn't really clean it back too good , I have taken it off and started again .

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John, Thanks, I changed them. I have the masts up & am putting sails on now. I have gone ahead & sewed them on as once I found a fast way to sew them I don't mind doing it.

I use a needle & start from the back of the first hole, up & over & go behind the thread & over to hole 2 & do it again. They come out straight from the front & you have a thread runing behind the sail that I have never seen once it is on the mast.  I use my Formula 560 white glue to glue the sail to the spar before I sew. That glue is super for anything on finished paint because you can clean it off with water untill it's dry. Then it is stronger than anything. 

John, thank you, I didn't know what they were when i put them on. They do angle at about 30 degrees. You do write great posts & I read them all.

I did want to go back to one thing & that is the rigging machine.. The only way I  personally am going to get ratlines on a ship model is with the pre made ones or the machine. I went back & looked at what i did before & they are way better than the kit supplied ones. I am sorry that I didn't keep going & do it for the Prince as it is a great looking model. I am using the kit ones on the Victory & the ratlines cut off about 5 ratlines short of the tie in point. With the machine you can take them all the way. 

 I will find a glue that works. My white canopy glue or the brush on Loctite super glue might be the answer. I can rig up 2 shrouds in about 20 minutes, but the glue screws me up. Also I thought if you start rigging when you start a new kit , it will give you more glue drying time.  I will let you know. 

   The Sirene Heller kit has a rigging machine that is just one piece & I think that will be much better.

  Also I just thought of this, sometimes you see a model that someone has painted a lot of parts. I solved this a long time ago when i was looking for a Rolls Balloon car. The only one i could find was covered with a lot of paint on the parts. I soaked the parts in a let down solution of Purple Power, 1/2 & 1/2 or less. It cleaned the paint off beautifully & I went & finished a beautiful car. It will take off enamel or acrylic & maybe lacquer.  I also clean my old 1/2 oz paint bottle with a long soak in a strong can of Purple Power. Walmart has it in Automotive. The darn bottles are about 1.50 each. Too much to throw away & they come completely clean. I throw them in a can of Purple & let them & the lids sit for a week. The Purple is only about $5 a big bottle.

   Here is the Rolls

Please excuse any bad typeing or mistakes because i have never typed this much.

Staale S

 

 

On a different forum too many years ago we discussed which (wood!) kit of the Wasa was the best. Someone then mentioned that the most dimensionally accurate of them all according to someone in the know at the Vasa museum was... the plastic Airfix one.

 

 

 

As I understand it, the Wasa Museum has also endorsed the Revell 1/150 kit - and I believe at least one prominent museum staff member played a prominent role in designing the kit.

It's noteworthy that the museum has not endorsed those enormous, and expensive, HECEPOB kits.

Gene, that's a mighty fine-looking Victory. One tiny suggestion: those two long brown polls that stick out over the beakhead are the foretack bumpkins. The foretacks (the lines leading down and forward from the fore coarse (the lowest square sail on the foremast) lead to those bumkins. They should jut out from the bow at about a 45-degree angle, rather than straight ahead.

Bill, I wasn't trying to put Airfix down, but like John & you say, some are really old kits. They do turn out really nice. The 2 fictional Heller kits that I got , Sirene & Gladiateur are very nice castings & seem to fit very well. As always I have just built for fun so a fictional kit doesn't bother me as long as it builds into a nice model. 

   Steve, I think you might have the green a little heavy, but you can wipe it down some. Maybe it's the picture. I will try to put a picture on of my Victory with the green wash.

John, that was agreat post on the kits you just did. Airfix has gotten me realy wrapped up on ships, do I do love them. Little things that Heller had were the windows opened in the glass area. That saves a ton of work. I would love to do another Victory in some thing bigger but not 1/100. I picked up another very nice & newer Airfix Wasa for $9.99 shipped. I couldn't pass it. I felt like Jesse James & wrote the seller about it.  Just nobody bid on it. 

I fully concur with John.  When Heller produces an accurate kit of an historic ship, it is usually an outstanding model.  But, doing so is more the exception than the rule.  Many modelers have been duped into believing that they were purchasing an accurate model of a real ship, only to find out that the ship was fictional.  Airfix has only produced one dud, their Bounty, which, of course, is historic.  On the down side, Airfix kits are more simple to build.

I just wish that Airfix would manufacture more of them.

Bill

jtilley

And the Airfix Wasa and St. Louis can stand comparison with anything on the market.

On a different forum too many years ago we discussed which (wood!) kit of the Wasa was the best. Someone then mentioned that the most dimensionally accurate of them all according to someone in the know at the Vasa museum was... the plastic Airfix one.

? , not with you gmorrison ?

I have an old glue bomb Discovery.

had a go gene , doesn't look too bad , might dry brush it yet with a greenish white , see how I go .

" />

thank's for that gene , I will have a go at it , I can't compare airfix as I have never done one of there models , unfortunately . I have only done heller , zvezda ,and revel models .

as I have only been modeling for a few year's , heller have the most detail , zvezda the best fit and revel depends on the model .

May I be forgiven for jumping in here? (If not - well, one of the great things about this Forum is that you can quit reading at any time!)

In talking about the relative quality of model companies, we always need to remember that most of them have been around for a long time, and the quality of their kits has changed over the decades (generally, but with plenty of exceptions, for the better). Airfix has been in business since the early fifties, and Heller for almost as long. If I'm not mistaken, the first Airfix sailing ship was the Endeavour, and it was, by modern standards, extremely basic. As Airfix sailing ships got newer, they got better. The Prince is certainly better detailed than the Victory, which is better detailed than the Sovereign of the Seas. And the Airfix Wasa and St. Louis can stand comparison with anything on the market.

I'm also a fan of the Airfix Cutty Sark - one of the few kits in the sailing ship line that are still available. In some ways it's better detailed than the big Revell one. I also like the Airfix Revenge and Mayflower. I haven't seen the Golden Hind, but on the basis of photos it looks like a nice kit.

Airfix sailing warship kits do have one feature I really dislike: those "dummy" gun barrels that plug into holes in shallow depressions representing the gunports. To be fair, the depressions got deeper over the years; those of the Wasa are much better than those of the Victory.

Airfix did have one dud (in my opinion): its HMS Bounty. That one appeared in about 1980, when Airfix was having major financial problems, and is riddled with silly mistakes (like a maindeck that's mounted on a pronounced slope, because the hawseholes are in the wrong places). Anybody wanting to do a Bounty in plastic would be far better advised to pick the old Revell kit.

The Airfix line had/has several big general virtues. All the kits (the Bounty excepted) are the right shape, and the details that are there are right. I get the impression that the designers were doing the best they could to produce historically accurate models, given the limitations of technology and budget. And Airfix never released a sailing ship kit under more than one name.

I've vented about Heller already in this thread, so I won't bother doing it again.

Bottom line: if you're most interested in "carved" ornamentation and lots of parts, you'll be happy with Heller (though the more recent Airfix kits can certainly compete). If you care about historical accuracy, you're (almost) always safe with Airfix - and rarely, but occasionally, safe with Heller.

Steve, How do you compare the quality of the Heller kits to the Aifix? I looked at mine & although the Airfix are great kits, the Heller looks like it has much cleaner & better castings.They do have some very nice design features. Heller has full guns on the second deck & I never minded the Airfix way of lower guns. You can't see anything anyway on that small a model. 

     I see you are priming your models before painting, have you always done that. I have off & on depending on the type model. When I started using MM acrylic, without priming it peeled. Tamiya never did that, but I really like MM acrylic as it brushes beautifully, where I have to brush. I do a lot of big brushing on sailing ships.

Steve, I meant to answwer this a while back. On my Victory, I got Emerald green oil & mixed with white & thinned to a wash & painted that on my copper botton. It settles in nicely & looks great. I did that on my Constituion 35 years ago. I used Floquil copper which worked great & I could wash over it. If you used acrylic  or lacquer, that would wash good too.

   I have a ton of floquil that is 30 years old & still good. I used it on my HO railroads.

John,

I couldn't agree more.  That is why I have ordered the Kruzenstern from Zvesda, having the rest of their sailing ships, I have all of the Revell line, including their Flying P-Line ships, and all the Airfix kits.  Perhaps one of them will release a new sailing warship oneday.

Bill

One of the great secrets of the plastic kit industry is: how many kits does a company have to produce to make a profit? Answer: I have no idea.

When I was working my way through college in a hobby shop, the distributors told us that, generally speaking, the break-even point was about 100,000 units. I don't have any further verification of that, and, in any case, the business has changed enormously since those days (1973-1980). My strong impression is that the number of modelers has gone way down and the prices have gone way up - partly, I assume, because the companies have to make profits on fewer sales.

A little while ago I took a look at the Eduard website. (I'm pretty sure that website is the real thing, based in the Czech Republic. When Americans go to airfix.com, they see a website that's based in the U.S.) Eduard actually says how many of each kit it has in stock. And the numbers are astonishingly low: about ten of each item - including the brand new ones. I don't know how to interpret that. Surely Eduard doesn't get its investment in a kit back by selling ten copies of it. Does the company keep a tiny store on hand and effectively pop new kits on order, as it runs out? I have no idea.

I won't speculate on how many revised and updated H.M.S. Prince kits Airfix could sell in a year. But my guess is that the figure would be in the hundreds. And I suspect the company just can't afford to operate on such numbers. Just how much does it cost to revise a plastic kit mold? I don't know. I don't really know how the plastic kit business works - and it's a safe bet that the people running it will never tell me.

If Airfix introduces a new sailing ship, I'll probably be among the first in line to buy it - not because I'm likely to build it in this lifetime, but because I want to support firms that make good sailing ship kits.

There is one thing that I have learned about Airfix by participation in their Forum, and it is that they will produce a kit for a limited production run. When that kit sells out, there are no more until the company decides to produce that kit again.  It seem like an unusual way to run a model company, but so be it.

Bill

A correction to my last post. I don't know what part of the Airfix website I was looking at yesterday when I said there were only seven Airfix ship kits, but when I looked at it today the total was sixteen.

Two of those are duplicates: the Victory and Belfast in regular and "Gift Set" formats. Three are passenger vessels: the old 1/600 Mauretania and Queen Elizabeth and the 1/700 Titanic (which, as I understand it, is a reboxing of the Academy kit). The Belfast is the only survivor of the old 1/600 warship range. Then there are the 1/350 Illustrious and Type 42 frigate, and the 1/72 S-boat and Severn-class lifeboat.

The sailing ship range consists of the larger Victory, Wasa, Cutty Sark, and Golden Hind kits, and the tiny Victory, Cutty Sark, and Mary Rose.

The website used to have a page of submarines. Apparently they're all gone now.

Sad - but not quite as sad as I thought yesterday.

I'll keep following those Airfix Forum threads, in the hope of reading a response from somebody in company management. But I can't be optimistic at this point.

I've heard that Airfix didn't do well financially last year - despite some terrific new aircraft kits (and, of course, no ships whatsoever). It will be interesting to see what the website says about new releases for 2017.

John,

Agreed.  I simply wanted to give a nod to Dave for his exquisite work.  Concerning the Mary Rose, I wish that Airfix had manfactured her in a larger scale.  I have that kit, and it is very simplistic. 1/144 would have been nice.

Bill

I suggest we drop the subject of the Soleil Royal. If any subject has been beaten to death in this Forum, that's it. I thoroughly respect others' opinions.

I'm a big fan of the old Imai kits. To my knowledge the company only pulled one...shall we say, recycling stunt. The Imai Greek and Roman galleys used the same hull and many other parts. The hull was that of a bireme. To make the kits look different, Imai gave each of them only one row of oars - mounted in different places. To make either of them look reasonable you'd have to get hold of, or make, an additional set of oars.

Otherwise, they're nice kits. 

I really wish the Imai range would reappear. I've long thought the Imai 1/125 Cutty Sark was the best model of that kit on the market - plastic, wood, or otherwise. (But the Airfix one is nice - better in some ways than the big Revell one.)

I read that thread on the Airfix forum. The thing that worries me about it is that none of the Airfix staff has yet responded to it. That doesn't cause optimism.

The current Airfix ship line is pretty sad. At the present time, according to the company website, it consists of seven different kits. [Later edit: that number is wrong. I corrected it in my next post, below.] Four of them - the Victory, Wasa, Cutty Sark, and Golden Hind - are left from the glory days of Airfix sailing ships. Three more sailing ship kits - the Victory, Mary Rose, and Cutty Sark - are little tiny kits, pretty clearly aimed at the museum gift shop trade. Most of the warship kits from previous decades are gone. And that nice little 1/350 Mary Rose apparently is being discontinued - after only a few years on the market.

Please note that David_K is building a masterpiece with his exemplary Le Soleil Royal. That kit can be built into a serious ship model given a dedicated eye towards detail, exquisite painting skills, and the investment of a small fortune in after market products.  Here's to building fine models from beef bones! 

Bill

I suspect Imai might also be relatively clean on the issue.

I can't claim to have looked at every Heller sailing ship kit, but I've looked at a lot of them. In my opinion, from the standpoint of serious scale ship modeling, 10 of them are worth building: Le Superb, Le Glorieux, Pamir, Passat, Preussen, Gorch Fock, Royal Louis, La Reale, La Belle Poule, Le Pourqois Pas?, and the big Victory. Oh - and I guess the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria are ok, but pretty basic (and the Nina and Pinta share the same hull).

Note that Le Soleil Royal is not on my personal list. I've gotten into lots of arguments about that, but I just can't take it seriously as a scale model.

As I remember, Heller got into the sailing ship game back in the sixties. It started out by reissuing Pyro and Aurora kits under completely fictitious French names. Then it took the tack of picking subjects that looked pretty, and featured lots of "carved" detail. Heller's artisans were always among the best in the plastic kit industry. But they seem to have possessed a bare minimal understanding of how sailing ships are built.

In the very late seventies and early eighties something happened: Heller started making scale sailing ship models. Their kits continued to feature some stupid mistakes and omissions (did the Heller designers really think the Victory's yards weren't fastened to her masts?), but by most reasonable definitions the kits were scale models.

As I understand it, Heller had a lot of highly sophisticated sailing ships on the drawing board when, in the mid-eighties, the company went belly-up. It's interesting, and depressing, to think about sailing ship kits superior to the Heller Victory.

Staale is perfectly correct.  The Heller 1/200 Royal Louis is an excellent kit, whereas the Le Gladiateur is seemingly bastardized version made into a ship that never existed.  But, the model looks pretty and can be fun if the builder doesn't take it too seriously.  I wish that the manufacturers would take sailing ship modelers more seriously!

And, John, I will second your comments about Airfix!  I really wish that they would retool most of their ships, and model more sailing ships.  There is an excellent discussion on their website concerning this very topic.

Bill

crackers

 

Is this model the same ROYAL LOUIS that the Heller kit LE GLADIATEUR is supposed to represent ? 

Well, yes and no, but mostly no. Heller has a perfectly decent model of Royal Louis in 1:200 scale (I think it is) like the one in the photo. Then they reused the hull, replaced the upperworks, and made something quite improbable that they market as Le Gladiateur. Basically it is the red-headed lovechild of a caricature of a 17 Century first-rate and a late 18th Century one. Not a happy combination at all.

Which reminds me that I really ought to build the Heller Royal Louis that I have got sitting in the stash. Those massive French first-rates really are good-looking subjects.

coppered one side , haven't marked it yet with the nails . is there supposed to be a strip at the top of the coppering , ? I would also like to weather the copper with paint , is this possible .

" />

Cra ckers, That is a beautiful model & I see a lot of real nice rigging. More pictures would be nice. It is not an Airfix or Heller & it is wood isn't it?

Is this model the same ROYAL LOUIS that the Heller kit LE GLADIATEUR is supposed to represent ? If so, the real ROYAL LOUIS is an actual ship, while the LE GLADIATEUR is an impostor substitute for a fictional vessel. I'd rather have the real thing.

Happy modeling   Crackers   

I'll go further than that. If I'm not mistaken (and granting an exception for the Bismarck/Tirpitz), Airfix has never released a ship kit under two names. Airfix's ship kits aren't exactly common, and they vary tremendously in quality - largely because they were originally released over several decades.

I'm a big fan of Airfix.

Gene,

I paid about $35.00 for it. The seller listed it as a "Buy It Now" item, and I happened to get very, very lucky by finding it right after it had been listed. I also bought the Airfix Royal Sovereign and Prince simultaneously from the same seller.  I sent those to John Tilley.  I kept the St. Louis.

As far as I know, Airfix was the only producer of plastic sailing ships that did not release kits of fictional ships.  The kit of the Le Gladiateur is based on that of the Royal Louis, an historic ship of 120 guns.

Bill

good for you gene , you have a knack for getting lucky , didn't know they weren't true ship's , pity that .

Bill, I  had just heard that the Sirene was ficticious, but it is a pretty thing & will be fun to do the stern, more gold. I thought the other one Gladiateur was real or close to it. Oh well they are still pretty & I didn't pay too much. By the way how much was your Airfix St Louis ?

I hate to say it, but neither ship actually existed.  This was a common scam by Heller to make maximum profit off of one set of molds by simply repackaging and slightly altering kits of authentic ships as fictional ones. For example, there never was a French First Rate named Le Gladiateur, although Sirene was a common enough name for French warships. The trouble with the kit is that the figurehead is grossly out of proportion, and those forward towers on the sides of the bows were never a feature of French warships, at least that I can find. However, the models do make nice decorations.

Bill

Steve, I lucked  into 2 big Heller kits the other night. I got the 1/200 La Gladiateur for $17.50 + ship, in a sealed box & the La Sirene for $29.99 + ship. The Sirene is due here this morning. I have never seen a larger Heller kit. By the way they were both listed a $100.

having a bit of a play with the boat's

" />

thank's mark ., will definately be there .

It will be held next Year at Redbank on August 26/27. Check out www.QMHE.com for more info.....Cheers Mark.

where and when is that held ?

Did you go to QMHE this Year.

200 k's due west , the other side of toowoomba .

Certainly am Buddy. I am in Brizvegas so where abouts are you..??

thank's mark you have to be an aussie with that emblem LOL

Love these Heller Kits Steve so will be watching with great interest.....Cheers mark

the other lovely little chore cannons , [they're kidding with that censorship ] .

" />

gene

I would love to see you do the victory 1/100 , thing's are a lot easier to handle at that scale !!

thank's again prof . do I still call you that now you have retired . I don't I'm up to individual pin ***'s , but your first option might be better , the sanding has started , one side is nearly done" />

Beautiful ship Steve, I just happened on this site & see that you are back in rigged ships. That was a great job on the Robt. E Lee.  I miss a lot of the new posts as I forget to look on the Forum. I just mounted the finished Victory hull on it's oak base and am getting ready for the masts.

   I have really enjoyed the Victory & would love to do a slightly bigger version than 180, but not 100 like the hugh one Heller has.

One approach would be to start with a sheet of adhesive-backed copper and slice it into individual plates. If you do want to represent the nail heads, here's a trick. Before you slice up the sheet, lay it on top of a sheet of medium-grit sandpaper and burnish it. Presto - thousands of little dots. Not in any particular pattern, but on that scale who cares?

On my little HMS Bounty ( http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/155394.aspx?page=1 ), I cut the plates out of sheets of .001" copper, and stuck them to the hull with old-fashioned, high odor contact cement. (The adhesive-backed stuff wasn't available then - or if it was I didn't know about it. The model is now about 40 years old, and the plates are still firmly stuck.) When all the plates were on, I sat down in front of the stereo system with the model and a dull needle in a pin vise, and made the dents individually. But I was working on a slightly larger scale (1/110) and a considerably smaller ship.

Yes, that is the stuff. Just snip off individual plates and glue them on, easy as pie. On a wooden hull you would want the hull to be painted and varnished beforehand so it has a truly glass-smooth surface for better adhesion, on a plastic hull that is a non-issue so just make sure it is sanded smooth and nice with a fine grade of sanding paper and you are good to go. 

Personally, I'd not worry overmuch about putting in any rivet detail, absolutely not in 1:150 scale anyway. Each plate was nailed onto the hull with a _lot_ of small nails, and the individual nail-head would not be very prominent - they wanted a smooth hull, after all. In 1:48 scale, then maybe.

Such tape is available in soft (heat-treated) and springy (non heat-treated) variants, the soft one is preferable I feel.

http://www.anythinginstainedglass.com/metals/foil.html

And yep, 5/32" is 3mm.

Staale,

The smallest copper tape that I have been able to fine is 3mm wide. it steps up mm by mm, so a modeler can find any useful width  he/she desires for the coppering. It is terrific stuff; it certainly beats the old method of painting ships bottoms copper!

If a given builder desires raised rivets, there are pattern makers of different spacing that can simulate rivet heads quite nicely. Just find the one that fits your scale as closely as possible, and run it over the back of the tape.

Bill

Steve,

Making the copper plating shouldn't be difficult for you. I did a sloppy job on my War of Independence Schooner but, had I had more of a committment to detail, I might have been able to produce a more accurate representation of the plating. I just got antsy and wanted to get it done. You will be able to do a better job on your Le Glorieux.

thank's prof . jtilley ., never thought of that , don't know if my ability is up to it , see how I go .

I haven't built either of the Heller 74 kits. I bought one of them about 40 years ago, but the combination of the one-log hull, the flat decks, the too-wide deck planks, and the copper all the way to the wales sent it to the bottom of my stash. When I moved from Ohio to Virginia, I consigned quite a few kits to a local hobby shop. I guess it sold.

One approach to the hull plank problem would be simply to scrape off the "wood grain" and leave it at that. Plenty of modelers prefer the look of a smooth hull surface.

If I were determined to scribe the edges of the planks, I'd first try doing it with a small pair of dividers. Follow the adjacent wale with one point of the dividers, and scribe with the other.

Another approach would be to lay down several layers of thin striping tape along the line you want to scribe, and use the tape as a guide for your scriber.

There were differences between French and British rigging practice; whether those differences are worth the trouble in a 1/150-scale model is up to the modeler.

The rigging diagrams in the Diana book probably would be about 75 percent for a French 74 of 30 years later. A better source would be the "Anatomy of the Ship" volume about HMS Bellona (a British 74). 

Incidentally, one of the nice features of the Heller 74 kits is that they offer the choice between lateen-rigged mizzen sails or gaff-and-boom-rigged mizzen sail. That's correct for the period. During the American Revolution ships of all navies might be rigged either way.

crackers

Could a modeler use the well illustrated English riggng version seen on this book to rig the Heller model and stiil be accurate ? Inquiring minds want to know.

The simple answer is "no". There are a gazillion little detail differences between French and British rigging that a knowledgeable eye will pick up. Besides, Boudriot has already said the last and final word on the subject matter so why waste time on anything less?

As for coppering a hull, the simple answer is to sand all the molded "copper plating" down flat and smooth. Round off the turn of the bilge while you are at it, getting rid of the nasty flat area on the bottom of the ship. Then use self-adhesive copper tape to create the copper plating, it is available in a variety of widths so getting one that is very close to scale should be easy. It is extremely thin too, not gold-leaf thin but at least household aluminum foil thin. Overlaps will not stand out, the stuff is easy to work with in all respects. I believe it is actually produced as a tool for making "Tiffany"-style lamps, the kind that have screens made from variously shaped pieces of glass soldered together - they actually stick the copper tape around the edges of the glass panels and then solder the tape surfaces.

I used such tape to copper the bottom of an 80-gun ship model in 1:72 scale, it really is wonderful stuff. As long as the underlying surface is smooth it the tape sticks incredibly well to it.

I have read that the rigging instructions on the Heller kit are not very reliable. I have the Anatomy of a ship series of the English frigate DIANA. Could a modeler use the well illustrated English riggng version seen on this book to rig the Heller model and stiil be accurate ? Inquiring minds want to know.

Happy modeling    Crackers   

jtilley

how did you go about scribing the separate line's on the side's of the hull , a straght line I can do , but a curve ? I've tried using styrene , but it's a nightmare holding it in place . I would love some guidence prof.

steve5

There is another way to access the Hismodel site . . . through eBay.  I have been very satisfied with Radek's products.  His cloth sails are the best I have seen, his flag sets are equally good, and his blocks are fantastic.  You cannot go wrong.

Bill

thankyou cerberusjf , 1943mike , has very kindly sent me an incredible amount of information on the rigging , lot's of study to do . I know what you mean about the coppering , don't know if I have the ability to do the scribing , will have a think about it .

I've got the book, so if you need anything, let me know.

I've got the kit too, one problem (for me) was that the copper plating followed the lower edge of the main wale rather than the water line, but it can be sanded off.

Steve,

I've made 52 scans of 13 pages that I can send to you. Please PM me with your personal email and I'll start sending them. I'll do it in small batches so they don't get clogged up on the 'net.

P.S. Steve, I just noticed your email is listed in your profile so I'll use that one. It's now 10:48 am on Thursday here and therefore it's 3:48 am on Friday (I'm sending this to the future!!) in Queensland Australia. When you wake up you should have some of the scans I made this morning from the photocopies I made several years ago.

Bill jogged my memory. Yeah, Heller molded "wood grain" detail into the hull halves so it looks like the whole hull was hacked out of a single, impossibly large tree. One approach would be to scrape all the "wood grain" off.

Heller pulled stunts like that all over its sailing ship line. I've always suspected that the designers - fine artisans though they were - didn't really know much about ships.

started priming and filling in the pre drilled holes for the plates , as they are not quite in the right place ." />

I think this is the right link mike http://www.radekshipmodels.cz/en/

thank's for the link's mike , but they are way out of my league too mate , I went to our local library and asked about boudriot's book's , not in queensland , and they are all linked .when I built the superbe I relied on pete coleman's site , he has an excellent build on the french 74

 if any body has any link's at all to the rigging on a french 74 , I would love to get them please , thank's guy's

steve5

Bill,

Can you provide a link to "Hismodels"?

I have both of these kits as well as the Royal Louis.  As John has pointed out, there are some detail issues that are easily surmountable.  One not mentioned by him is that there is no plank detail.  It looks almost as if these ships were carved out of a massive log.

That said, I love these kits. And, Hismodels has wood blocks and decks for them, and sewn cloth sails.

Bill

Steve,

I've had this kit in my stash for quite a while. I keep getting it down out of the closet, putting on my bed, and looking at it . So far I haven't had the courage to give it a try so I'm very glad you're going to build it!! I'll certainly follow along on this build - with great pleasure and interest.

As far as the instructions for the rigging go, several years ago I went to the Portland main library (I live in Salem so it's less than an hour to get there from my place) and used their copy machine to make several copies of the rigging in Volume 3 of Jean Boudriot's masterpiece on French 74 gun ships. I have paid more than I thought I ever would to collect a modest library on ships but this book - in its entirerty - is way, way out of my budget range. I'll include a couple of Amazon links here for you but I would suggest calling a library to see if they have it and would allow you to photocopy some pages.

https://www.amazon.com/Seventy-Four-Gun-Ship-Architecture-1988-03-02/dp/B01K3NOOUK/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1473875987&sr=1-2&keywords=The+Seventy-Four+Gun+Ship%3A+A+Practical+Treatise+on+the+Art+of+Naval+Architecture+rigging

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/087021618X/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1473875987&sr=1-1

 I got this kit and a stack of other Heller kits back in the early 90's when Squadron used to have them marked down to practically nothing in their monthly flyer.  I think I paid $14.99 for my kit.  My have times changed as far as prices on models go.  

As far as rigging instructions on a Heller kit, they make great drop cloths.  The jigs they supplied are better for needle point then trying to make a set of ratlines that would actually fit and look right.

The Heller 1/150 scale LE GLORIEUX kit, is a nice kit if one is willing to pay $85 as posted on e-bay. I would be tempted to purchase this kit if I did not have some kits gathering dust waiting to be built.

Happy modeling   Crackers

It's a nice kit. I have only two criticisms of it: the deck planks are too wide and the decks are flat. (They should be cambered - arched up slightly in the middle.) Non-fanatics probably can overlook both of those.

And I can see why scottrc had trouble with the instructions. The rigging instructions, in particular, are totally irrational. You'll need to get a book to help you through the rigging; the instructions are useless. Or maybe you can find some reasonable diagrams on the web.

But the "carved" details are beautiful, and I really like the way the guns on the lower deck are handled. This kit has the potential to produce a beautiful model.

Good luck.

Ohh,  I am excited to see this build.  I have this kit in the stash.

Aw; C'mon !

 Steve , I know you have dealt with worse . I have faith in you .  T.B.

not too bad , but I've had better" />

I did her sister ship , a few year's ago the , le superbe , hopefully I can can do it a bit better this time , as they are the same ship ." />

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